Dear Clinton supporters,

[cali]

This is a comment that focuses entirely on the race- not on policy.

Many of you seem to think that the attacks on Clinton in the MSM and from liberal blogs and liberal media such as The Nation, aren't fair. And it's true that she's frequently slammed in an intrinsically dishonest way that no other candidate is. But- she's done a lot to feed the frenzy against her. Her snark attack on Obama's ambition- going back to his kindergarten days wasn't funny; it was a clunker and tone deaf. Her insistence that college students voting in Iowa is polluting the process, is not only wrong as regards Iowa, it's wrong period. Her insistence that she wouldn't go negative, only to go strongy negative, was trap of her own creation.

The real point I want to make is that if she can't survive this, that's a good thing, because it indicates what would happen if she were the nominee. It's not like things are going to get easier for whoever gets the nomination. If she survives this to get the nomination than she'll be a stronger candidate in the general. If not, you should recognize that she just didn't have the skill to survive.

[Perry Logan]

1. Or does it simply mean that incontinent slander is still an effective campaigning tool?

[cali]

2. As I said, she's feeding the frenzy.

Her campaign has made some big mistakes in the last month or so. Can you address that?

[roguevalley]

37. or, it could mean this is politics and you don't like it. Everyone gets

slammed, fair or not. Personally, I don't want someone around who will waaaah everytime they take a hit. can't take it in the campaign, doens't bode well for the term.

[EV_Ares]

3. If she is the nominee that can win for the democratic party, then she

is the one I want. If Obama is the one and who is my first choice, he is the one I want. They both have made mistakes which should be expected. I really am surprised by some of her moves as she is intelligent and have to say never would have thought of her campaign going into a sort of panic move. Regardless, I hope the party is stronger after the primaries are over and come out with the best candidate.

[rodeodance]

4. yes, i think a couple of her campaign's latest comments are NOT good for her.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. She's better laughing off the negative attacks than joining in on them.

She's much better at attacking the GOP.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Her Staff Has Failed Her In Some Instances

If they worked for me they would be quietly demoted ...Firing them only invites press scrutiny... I think Penn is too smart by half... He needs to lower the tempo...

[MethuenProgressive]

6. "she's frequently slammed in an intrinsically dishonest way that no other candidate is"

Ain't that the truth, cali.
I'm certain my positive impression of her is molded just as much by the attacks, the attackers, and style of attacks, as it is by her own campaign. I confess, I hate the hatred, and see it as the true nature of her competitors and their supporters. They act and speak so bitterly publicly (albeit anonymously 'public' on DU) that they do their own candidates a disservice of a greater magnitude than their intended target.
Bill Richardson called out this 'stuff' during a debate - and was ignored.
I'm beginning to think Clinton/Richardson is what our country, and our party, needs.

(Moving Clinton up past Biden into second place in my sig line lineup after posting this.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Agree One Hundred Percent

IMHO, as a whole the MSM hates Hillary's guts and is willing to do whatever it takes to undermine her candidacy... That being said her staff has been ham handed at times and failed her... That is unacceptable...

[wyldwolf]

9. Dear Cali, don't forget one thing...

Obama used a discredited right wing talking point to attack Clinton's political ambition. By doing so he made attacking ambition fair game. Must I remind you that the kindergarten reference was but one of several instances that showed a pattern of Obama's lifelong ambition to be President?

It's more hypocrisy from Obama and more from his supporters.

[Tellurian]

10. Hillary is doing just fine..she is not worried about anything..

neither are we..

The rough and tumble goes with the territory. Other supporters should try to remember, this is not Hillary's first Rodeo. She has her policies and a viable platform in place. She has the confidence and cash to go on, meeting her opponents head on. Hillary is the most qualified candidate in every respect running in this campaign. I have no doubt, she will WIN the nomination.

[Apollo11]

11. Just for you - here is happy Hillary!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I Was Searching And Found Your Handsome Visage (Sic)

http://www.abevigoda.com/

HeeHawHee

[blm]

16. "Oh Chuck, thanks for helping me undermine Alito filibuster."

.

[Apollo11]

12. "meeting her opponents head on" = hiding behing General Clark

"Hillary is the most qualified candidate in every respect"?!

Did you ever hear of Joe Biden? Bill Richardson? :eyes:

[Froward69]

14. Second!

Joe Biden is far more qualified to be our nominee. Joe and Hillary Invite criticism. Joe confronts it, Hillary ignores it. Joe looks forward to debating the GOP. Hillary flails miserably among Democrats. Not only does she refer to Joe Biden being correct on multitudes of issues, she even implies the ideas are her own. (when Joe Biden is not around of course.) :puke:

Joe Biden for President!!!

[Tellurian]

17. yes, I've read your summaries, Froward69..

I haven't agreed with one yet and find your latest to be in keeping with your usual myopic views.

[Froward69]

33. "myopic"???

well isn't that the kettle calling... Flat out, A Vote for Hillary is a vote for DEFEAT in the GE!!! The MYSTIQUE that hillary will carry the day is a Myth. Granted she is flush with corporate bucks to numb us all with her message... of how great it would be for EVERYONE to be forced to buy health insurance. not to mention all those corporate favors she will have to pay back.

then theirs my PERSONAL belief she wants to be president not for you nor for me nor America... But for her own ego! thats a myopic view. like yours that somehow just because she has the bucks and is married to one of the greats, and is a 2 term senator. DOES NOT qualify her for the most important position on the planet.

[Tellurian]

36. myopic = narrow minded

and your post succinctly demonstrates my point.

[Froward69]

39. so singular support

for Hillary is not narrow minded?? working with blinders on is just as otiose.


I also am pulling for Obama. Your second?

[Tellurian]

40. Tell me what you know about Obama..

besides the aspect of him as a media creation. Has anyone ever done a well researched biography of this man? No, all we know about him is written by him in two self-authored books.

[Froward69]

45. well lets see

Obama is one of if not the greatest Orator of our time. Granted he wins the grass roots support challenge. As in hundreds of thousands of kids have sent him $10. (they can't vote as yet.) He Hopes for a UNITED Sates once again. He hasn't been in a tough fight, until now. and is an idealist. He is gracious and is /was reluctant to attack other candidates. unfortunately he is attacking hillary using repuke talking points in retaliation from her using them against him first.

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. I have been wondering why the experts like Clark and the politicians

like RFK and others have not endorsed Biden? I am curious.

[russian33]

22. Clinton must've paid them off

or threatened them, to support her...and i think she's holding Albright's cat hostage, to get her support

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. What makes a politician viable?

Whatever that is comes into the mix also. Why did the media pick up on people like John Edwards, Mark Warner (before he dropped out), and Barack Obama who have relatively thin resumes but essentially ignored people like Wes Clark (when he was actively considering running), Joe Biden and Chris Dodd?

Who I chose to endorse or not endorse has zero degrees impact on my effectiveness to influence U.S. policy or to advance in politics. That is not so for people who are inside the game, and I say "game" in a non judgmental sense. I start out assuming that everyone involved in politics theoretically is equally interested in using their talents to serve the public and the nation, regardless of whether they are running for President, hoping to serve in a Presidential Administration, or seeking to run for an office higher than the one they now hold. Those in politics who have a pattern of hitching their wagon to losing campaigns have a much more difficult time rising in politics or gaining access to the circles where actual policy is crafted.

Then there is the fact that unlike me, and probably you, people like Clark and RFK Jr. actually know most of the individuals running for President personally. They are in a position to make personal judgments about how these folks face and handle challenges, about how they reason under pressure, about how skilled they are forging common areas of agreement among people who strongly differ, about how well they take in information that differs from their previous assessment, and many other factors that I on the outside have little information to go on.

We can all point to people who hold views similar to our own on this board who in real life we most likely would want little or nothing to do with, lol. It is possible that some of the people who know and support Hillary Clinton do so because of their personal sense of who she is and how she will handle the pressure and responsibility of being President.

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. I think that is exactly right on

And I have been pondering this for a few days now with regard to Biden. He is experienced, no question. But he has not received the support that Clinton has. And I have to say that endorsements from Clark and RFK and others have had an effect on me.

[Tellurian]

15. where do you come up with this stuff..

Oh, I see, ridicule is your strong point..

Thanks for your concern.

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. I could make that argument for either Clinton, Biden, or Richardson

Seriously, no two people have the exact same qualifications, so to a large extent it depends on how you weigh different variables. On the qualifications front those three and perhaps Dodd also come out in front. Clinton has been in the thick of a two term Presidency and a three term Governorship. She was always Bill's unofficial co-pilot, now she has seven years in the Senate also.

Of course though qualifications is a pretty important criteria, it is not the only important one. George Bush Senior was more "qualified" to be President but I voted for Dukakis.

[CrispyQ]

18. The republicans will smear any dem candidate we select.

However, they will take special delight in dishing it out to HRC with a meanness that I believe we have not yet seen from them. It will make the swift boaters look like junior high pranksters.

[Tellurian]

20. Fear of swiftboating or Republican attacks are not a concern..

not in the Hillary Camp anyway..How would your candidate fare under swiftboating?

[cali]

21. of course they're a concern. They'd be idiots if they weren't a concern n/t

[Tellurian]

28. Hillary has been taking on the Republicans for the last 20yr..maybe more..

The Neocons have thrown everything at Bill and Hillary and haven't advanced an inch because of it!

If your think they are "idiots" because they are consistent winners..look up the word "cognitive dissonance"!

[CrispyQ]

26. Biden will chew them up & spit them out!

;)

I'm sure HRC will handle the attacks effectively. My point was that she will mobilize the repub base like no other candidate we have. I know several republicans & while they are diverse in who they support right now, & dislike all dems, they hate HRC -- hate her. I don't understand why, but their hatred is palpable.

[Tellurian]

29. I like Biden..

What Biden is lacking is nothing personal. Except for funding, and a multi-layer inner circle consisting of good offensive and defensive teams. I hope Hillary chooses Biden for her VP. Biden brings a great deal of Foreign Policy experience to the table as a VP candidate and isn't about to take any Neocon guff from any of them.

[Tactical Progressive]

32. That's another reason, actually 2 reasons, why Hillary is the right choice

1) Republicans deserve to live under eight years of a Hillary Clinton Presidency, after what they did to Bill, what they did to Gore, and what they did to Kerry. They DESERVE it. The fact that they would hate Hillary makes me MUCH, MUCH more supportive of her than if we were hearing Publicans saying things like she wouldn't be so bad.

2) and this isn't me being facetious or glib, this is a philosophical, almost spiritual point: Whatever Publicans like the least is probably, in the deepest way, the right thing. There is no indicator of good vs bad, right vs wrong, truth vs lies - that comes anywhere near the accuracy of exactly-the-opposite-of-what-Publicans-want. If you could have only one single piece of information to decide on the rightness of something; anything - from taxes to foreign policy, from morals to ethics, from business regulation to the environment, from rights to responsibilities, from literally anything to anything else - the one piece of information that would most clearly help you make the right choice would be to know which way Publicans felt about it.

There is only one better endorsement than what a Publican doesn't like, and that is what a Publican hates.

[Tellurian]

38. well said!

It's 'What Goes Around.. Comes Around.. Time'... for Republicans..

[DrFunkenstein]

46. That's Completely Nutty Logic

If a conservative wants to keep America safe, that is something we agree on. We don't stop looking out for terrorists simply because we disagree with them. Our job is to convince them that the best way to do that is not with torture and indiscriminate bombing, but with human intelligence and aggressive diplomacy coupled with efforts to improve the quality of life for the Muslim world (and narrow military action using special forces when called upon).

We cannot bring about the sweeping changes needed for health care and environmental reform with the scorched earth politics you are talking about. Even if we could, I would rather bring moderates into the light of liberalism than have them fed up with all of the bickering and not participating in democracy at all.

That's why I am supporting Obama, and vigorously opposed to Clinton's campaign.

[Catherine Vincent]

43. I agree with what you said.

With Hillary, it's a different hate, I can't place it. Early on when Hillary had just won as New York's senator, a friend of mine was telling me that she hopes Hillary doesn't run for President. I asked her why and she said she doesn't like her, she hates her. And then I asked her what did she do for you to hate her. She couldn't answer me.

That Clinton hate is very strong. We're witnessing some of it here.

[Nimrod2005]

24. Well said....nt

[electron_blue]

25. She's made it clear she can survive this and a lot worse.

I would say that most candidates are having "unfair" attacks against them this year and probably more to come next year. I think Hillary is garnering more attacks because of her sex and Obama because of his race. What's wrong with trying to call people on that, when appropriate?

[Beacool]

30. Oh, she will survive this, of that I have no doubt!!

The Clintons have survived far worse than the fluff attacks of a few Democrats and the MSM. I'm absolutely sure that come Feb. she'll be our nominee. Obama will get his chance, but not in 08.

[Occam Bandage]

31. The general point goes for supporters of absolutely any candidate.

I think complaining about the MSM, while valid in one regard (the attacks often are actually unfair), are misguided. If your candidate cannot survive in the current media landscape, why should we trust them with the candidacy? To use a clumsy analogy, I would rather sign up with the mammal adapting to the new landscape than the dinosaur complaining how unfair the meteor was.

[BenDavid]

34. I believe you misunderstood what HRC was saying. You know

when a candidate speaks it is up to you and me as well to not only listen to what HRC is saying, but also HEAR what HRC is saying.If one does not do both then you have folks coming in a posting something so off the mark it is laughable.

[Tactical Progressive]

35. That's not how kindergarten-gate went

That's how the media has been playing it. Two different things.

1) Obama attacked Hillary with this, not the other way around. And even though it seems like this was just some little wordplay attack, it wasn't; it was an ugly one. Obama was playing on the Publican's misogynistic smear of Hillary as being a single-minded power-hungry bitch. And Obama knew that he was doing exactly that when he said it.

Note how the media went to full inversion of the truth, blaming the victim for the attack. This is the kind of stuff, the level of journalistic corruption, that they went after Al Gore with in 2000. They have returned, in a flash as I've been saying they would, from eyes-down lapdogs to Publicans for seven years, to snide, nasty, dishonest attack dogs against Democrats; in particular Hillary now.


2) Obama said basically that Hillary's been clawing for this for a long time, >not him<. At which point we find out Obama's been saying he wanted to be President to other people all the way back through his state govt days, through law school, college, as a young man and even when he was a little kid. IOW, Obama just flat out intentionally lied to deliver his smear job.

He smeared and he lied, and no, the mainstream media isn't calling him on it. They aren't even reporting it. In fact, they're blaming victim. That's how far they go to do what they want.


3) Hillary's camp used some wry humor to point this out, saying in response, oh please, 'Obama's been wanting to be President since he was in kindergarten.' Just a cute summation, which in the media's hands is somehow Hillary 'attacking' little 5-year old Obama. It is absurd.


Had this been the other way around, people like Chris Matthews would have drool spraying from his lower lip so ferverent would be his approbation of Obama's style and wit; his ability to take a Hillary slam and so elegantly sum it all up into 'kindergarten' and throw it back so everyone understands it. He would be absolutely glowing about the beauty of Obama's response. And sneering about Hillary's gall and her dishonesty at even trying such a lying smear. His contempt would have been palpable.

Like I said, this is Gore-level journalistic treachery, where truth is a 180-degree commodity to these people. I don't know how you can blame Hillary for stuff like this.

[Evergreen Emerald]

44. awesome post--best one I have seen on the subject

and extremely accurate about the Obama attacks, and about the media's help in Clinton's downfall and obama's rise.

It is a shame that after all we have been through, we still just repeat what we heard on TV as if it is the truth. The power to re-define and re-write history is enormous. And that is what happened here.

[Catherine Vincent]

42. Cue Destiny's Child....

"Hillary's a survivor, she's not goanna give up!"

[Perry Logan]

47. Obama definitely seems to be cornering the asshole vote.