Hillary Clinton's campaign displays obvious hypocrisy about Iowa student caucus rules

[zulchzulu]

What the Obama campaign is doing in regards to having out-of-state students be able to caucus is completely legal and has been done ever since the Iowa caucus has happened.

What the Hillary Clinton campaign is doing to attack Obama is clearly defined hypocrisy and distortion. This post cites links proving it.

Let's start with just who can caucus in Iowa, which is on January 3, 2008. This explains the basics:

Who Can Participate?

Participants must be a resident of the precinct where they live and be at least 18 years old as of November 4, 2008.

You must attend the caucus in order to participate. There is NO absentee voting for the caucuses.

You must be registered to vote and be registered with the political party of the caucus you are attending. (You can register at the caucus location. Political parties are responsible for turning in the registrations to the County Auditor.)

Guests may attend the caucus to observe, not to participate. This may include media, youth, campaign staff and volunteers.

http://www.storycounty.com/index.aspx?DN=2656,53,50,6,1,Documents

The document "Iowa Legislative Information System: Iowa Code 2003: Section 48A.5" shows the various legal descriptions of residency to participate in a caucus:

Be an Iowa resident. A person's residence, for voting purposes only, is the place which the person declares is the person's home with the intent to remain there permanently or for a definite, or indefinite or indeterminable length of time. A person who is homeless or has no established residence may declare residence in a precinct by describing on the voter registration form a place to which the person often returns.

Be at least eighteen years of age. Completed registration forms shall be accepted from registrants who are at least seventeen and a half years of age; however, the registration shall not be effective until the registrant reaches the age of eighteen.

Not claim the right to vote in more than one place. A registrant shall be presumed to revoke any earlier claim of residence for voter registration purposes.

http://www.legis.state.ia.us/IACODE/2003/48A/5.html

An excellent commentary points out the hypocrisy of the Clinton campaign and makes a great point about wondering why the Clinton campaign doesn't also go after senior citizens in Iowa who spend larger amounts of time away from their Iowa home than students.

Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee offered a very direct "The Iowa caucus ought to be for Iowans." So, what's an Iowan? Why go after students when no one questions the voting rights of snowbirds? Thousands of senior citizens leave the state and live for four, five, six months of the winter in Arizona, Texas, and Florida. Students live in Iowa for as much or, usually, more of the year.

"I was born here, and I am encouraged, not offended" at the idea of student participation, said Paul Deaton of Solon, a John Edwards supporter. He says that, because delegate allocations are set in advance and because student populations tend to be concentrated in just a few precincts, there may not be much impact. "If the out of state students caucus in the approximately 50 Iowa campuses I could count, they may win a larger percentage of the votes in those precincts and not raise the total high enough to offset the majority of people Yepsen refers to."

"Iowa students are in Iowa more than their home states; they pay tuition to the state of Iowa; they pay water & electrical bills to the city; they live, breathe, and study in Iowa more than home, and above all it is within the rules as stated by the Secretary of State," notes Atul Nakhasi, the firmly uncommitted head of the University of Iowa Democrats. "They should fully participate and engage the political process of Iowa."

http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1564

To add another layer of the hypocrisy of the Clinton campaign, their careless attack on Obama's completely legal strategy to make sure Iowa students can vote falls into darker waters.

Will the Clinton campaign make a student who is a "leader of the Students for Hillary organization at Iowa State University" who's driving back from Minnesota to caucus an issue? Will they demand she not caucus?

Here are some statements with links on that issue:

"Sarah Sunderman, a senior at Iowa State University, said she will drive back early from her home in Minnesota to take part in the Jan. 3 caucuses. She is one of about 21,000 out-of-state students who attend Iowa's public universities. As a member of her school's Democratic student group, she sees the date as a challenge."

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/NEWS09/710290338/-1/caucus

The student makes a point that she will caucus for Hillary Clinton, even though she has a home in Minnesota.

“I am a leader of the Students for Hillary organization at Iowa State University because I believe Senator Clinton has the strength and experience to bring the change our country needs so badly,” said Sarah Sunderman, co-chair of Students for Hillary and former president of the College Democrats at Iowa State University. “She has fought for students like me to make a college education more affordable and she is the only candidate who can hit the ground running on day one in the Oval Office.”

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eaction/2008/clinton/clinton100207pria.html

There is also a Iowa Students web site on the Hillary Clinton web site that doesn't mention anything about caucusing if you are an "out of state" student:

Pledge to caucus for Hillary Clinton and commit to her success by recruiting other students at your school or in your community.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/action/IAstudents/

This is just another of many examples of hypocrisy from the Hillary Clinton campaign. It appears that since the Coronation is not going according to plan that desperation is sinking in.

[Richard Steele]

1. K&R

[zulchzulu]

79. Thanks n/t

[Sandaasu]

2. Important stuff, recommended.

[Adelante]

3. Iowa Secretary of State website

Below is what the Iowa Secretary of State website says. It's not up to you or me or Hillary Clinton to decide how Iowa operates its caucus. By the way, if Hillary was doing GOTV on her out of state Iowa student resident supporters, (which I actually expected she would be doing), I would say mazel tov.

Non-Iowa Resident Attending College in Iowa


If you are from another state (i.e. Illinois) and are attending college in Iowa (i.e. Iowa State University), you may register to vote in:

* your Iowa college town or
* your home state (hometown) and vote absentee - subject to the laws of your home state

(You cannot register to vote in both locations)

http://www.sos.state.ia.us/elections/VoterInformation/CollegeStudents.html


Iowa Secretary of State Michael A. Mauro
Invites You to the 2008 Iowa Student Caucus


What: 2008 Iowa Student Caucus

On January 3, 2008 Iowa Democrats and Republicans will take the first step in deciding who will be the next President of the United States. Caucus goers will assemble all over Iowa in meetings to discuss politics, candidates and the issues that concern us most. During the caucus, participants choose which candidate we like the best, which political issues to debate and who we want to elect to participate in the next step in the Presidential selection- the county convention. As a student you will be participating in this exact same process.

When: The weeks prior to the Iowa Caucus (January 3, 2008)

Weeks before the real caucus you and other students like you will be able to learn about how a caucus works, who the candidates are and what they stand for before participating in your own Student Caucus. You will be able to discuss politics, debate upon issues, and choose the candidate that you like best.

Where: Your school

Your school will be the perfect setting for such an event. However, before the caucus can be held you have to know how it works. That is why we have created this curriculum to help you better understand how this process works. This curriculum will also walk you through how to hold your own Student Caucus. You will get to practice what happens at a real caucus along with many other students throughout the state of Iowa. You will get a chance to discuss, debate and decide in your own student caucus. You and many other students in Iowa will vote for whom you want to be the next President of the United States.

Why: Because your vote matters!

The caucuses are important because government impacts our everyday lives. Government has a say in almost everything you do. From laws relating to what foods you are served at school to protection from bullying, government affects you. Because of this it is imperative that you take part in the political process and the caucuses are one of the most significant ways to get involved and make a difference. The Iowa Caucuses are the best example of democracy and it is important to learn about the caucuses at an early age so that when you are able to vote or if you are able to vote that you are an informed voter and, you will participate to make a difference.

How: Sign-up to Participate!

View the step by step participation instructions, fill out the Teacher Application/Sign-up Word image sheet and return it to the Secretary of State's office via email to [email protected], via fax to [phone], or by mail to Iowa Secretary of State, ATTN: Gina Fontanini, Statehouse, Des Moines, Iowa 50319.

Hosted by: Iowa Secretary of State Michael A. Mauro, GDDC, Rock the Vote

http://www.sos.state.ia.us/studentyouth/StudentCaucus/index.html

Note: This is copied from another thread.

[zulchzulu]

5. Thanks for that...

It pretty much deflates any argument from the Hillary Clinton campaign to try to make it an issue.

[rinsd]

8. Not at all. No one is arguing the legality. Its similar to a carpetbagger charge.

The Clinton campaign is hoping to portray Obama as an outsider dependent upon out of state students for his Iowa support.

The reason it resonates is Obama's lead is dependent upon college age voters.

[Dawgs]

19. Did the Clinton campaign tell you that, or are you just guessing?

Because it's a pretty lame argument either way.

[rinsd]

28. All I have are statements from Yepsen, the Dodd campaign and a Clinton IA spokesperson.

The Clinton statement was "I think Iowa caucuses show be for Iowans".

The Dodd campaign statement is much more jagged.

I have no real insights to their thinking but that is what I think they are attempting to get at with this attack.

[Debi]

32. Does this mean that the Clinton campaign is advising all out of state Iowa college students

to NOT caucus at all? Including those who have stated publicly that they will caucus for Hillary Clinton?

[rinsd]

37. All I have is a single statement in reaction to Yepsen's column/Obama's action.

I doubt the Clinton campaign will do much follow up on the attack leaving that to the Dodd campaign (whose statement was much more biting) and locals like Yepsen.

I also doubt its the campaign's policy to turn away caucusers who are eligible. And that would include out of state students who registered according to Iowa's rules.

Like I said, this seems similar to the carpetbagger charge levied against recent/part time residents who run for office. Obama's perceived dependence on this demographic is why he gets hit with it.

[Debi]

43. I wonder what the Clinton campaign would have said about these non-Iowan

college students (from Illinois, seems the Minnesota students are now acceptable to the campaign) were in school when the caucuses took place. What argument would the campaign have about the 'carpetbaggers' then?

At first I thought you wrote Yokels like Yepsen, which is a fitting description of him. Yepsen is just trying to stir up a controversy to get his name back in the news (he has been passed over for national press interviews lately and others are receiving more attention) and maybe get back on T.V. one more time before Jan. 3rd. It's a shame that someone who is supposed to know the process would write such an inaccurate piece before checking his facts.

[rinsd]

46. The article from Yepsen read like some old fart looking at the past with rose colored glasses.

And the argument isn't directly "carpetbagging" but the vein of the attack which is outsiders vs community.

[Debi]

48. Yet most Iowans (yes, I'm now using the 'some people' argument)

Like the college community. Students bring diversity, creativity and YOUTH to Iowa. It makes no sense to tell them, 'welcom, please go to our colleges and shop in our stores. Attend our community events and churches, give to our charities and volunteer for our local organizations. But DON'T think you can participate in our political processes. That's where we draw the line'.

Did you know the Iowa Board of Regents has a college representative member on it now? And some local governments are allowing a college student representative to be a non-voting member to ensrue that they have imput from the college community.

These 21,000 people are not non-entities in our state, they are part of our state.

[rinsd]

50. Which is why Yepsen came across as some kind of classic crumudgeon.

[zulchzulu]

51. Well said...

It's important that someone like you involved in the process in Iowa interjects some great info on the issues.

:thumbsup:

[karynnj]

27. I wonder if she has thought this out

How would you feel as a college student if you thought that one or more candidates were trying to suppress the college vote in Iowa? If my own kids are typical, they are linked to people in other colleges because of the facebooks of their high school friends and cousins - who are now spread over a wide area.

Also, how do they HRC student coordinators - who are out of state students feel. They themselves are doing what the campaign is calling wrong.

Either this was not well thought out or the internals scare them - and they see cutting the number of students is essential.

[rinsd]

41. It seemed like an off the cuff remark looking to pile on.

The Dodd statement and what Yepsen wrote were much harsher.

"they see cutting the number of students is essential."

I could see that. Obama's dominates in that age group and its one of the few demographics he owns.

The things is traditionally 18-26 makes up a very small percentage of Iowa's caucusers(down around 10% of the electorate). NH is where that demographic really come out(over 20%).

[zulchzulu]

56. It's obvious that she didn't think this through

As I mentioned in my OP, there is a Hillary supporter who lives in Minnesota who will caucus for her. I wonder what she thinks now about her candidate.

My guess is that the Clinton campaign is now in panic mode and aren't as careful as they were earlier. Now that the kitchen really is getting hot, it appears she can't handle it.

Let the fun begin, indeed.

[karynnj]

62. good points

I just took it as hypocrisy but panic seems more likely - they seemed panicked after the bad debate as well. The problem was more the reaction afterwards, rather then the debate itself.

[hedgehog]

54. Not unlike when Senator Clinton held Hollywood fundraisers when

she first came to New York?

[Tellurian]

9. Really, Zulu..the only thing deflated is you pitiful attempt at piecing together a defense..

Obama is wrong, wrong, wrong..

You can't put lipstick on this pig and try selling it as morally right!

[Dawgs]

21. Good rebuttal.

Somebody sounds mad that Obama found a way to get many of his supporters back on that unfair January 3rd date.

[zulchzulu]

52. You'll never get a serious dialogue with that one...

Just crap saying "wrong! wrong! wrong!"

Another checkers player trying to play chess...

[karynnj]

29. She printed what the law is - there is nothing wrong

Why does HRC hate the youth of America? Does she still think that they are lazy? She denied that after speaking to Chelsea. Did Chelsea vote in CA when she was a student?

[Debi]

33. You know, three seperate Iowa bloggers have denounced Clinton and Dodd's behavior

The Law in Iowa proves they're wrong and the rule set out by the Iowa Democratic Party show that they are wrong.

Seems the pig and the lipstick belong with Clinton/Dodd.

[zulchzulu]

58. Dodd should know better than to side with Clinton

I regret giving him money. He should be ashamed of himself.

[sundancekid]

71. speaking of lipstick and pig and morally right - have you ever looked at your comments?

[bigdarryl]

59. so Obama was right

[MethuenProgressive]

4. Obama: "If You Are Not From Iowa" please come caucus for me in Iowa.

What a desperate third place Hail Mary.
Here's a scan of the Obama handout recruiting out of state students:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=152x20340

[zulchzulu]

7. I wouldn't expect you to "get it". But hey, keep repeating the same crap on every thread you can

The handout does not "recruit" out of state students who don't go to Iowa colleges. Surely you're not THAT confused?

[MethuenProgressive]

11. The "crap" is an official Obama for President publication.

The scan is from an impartial Iowan DU member. I really don't think it is a forgery.

[ilovesunshine]

12. Eeek, not very nice to call someone stupid.

[Dawgs]

14. They didn't.

[MethuenProgressive]

24. He edited out the word "stupid" quickly.

Obama people are *so* angry...

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

20. Welcome back to DU, krb.

The rules haven't changed, btw.

[Dawgs]

22. Based on what?

[flpoljunkie]

15. Not a thing wrong with this flier. It is the Clinton campaign who is grasping at straws here cause

they are very worried about Iowa. They know the Des Moines Register poll is considered to be the most reliable and it has much bad news for Hillary.

[MethuenProgressive]

18. "If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus in your college neighborhood."

No, no, nothing wrong with that at all...
"If you are not from Iowa..."

[flpoljunkie]

55. Iowa college students have the right to caucus in Iowa.

[zulchzulu]

57. Apparently if they don't support Hillary, they don't

College student support for Hillary is almost non-existent, hence a good reason to try to squelch democracy. She isn't going after the seniors in Iowa that spend far less time there... gee, I wonder why...

:rofl: :shrug: :rofl:

[CoffeeCat]

64. I'm from Iowa...there IS nothing wrong with this...

Iowa college students have ALWAYS participated in the Iowa caucuses. They
are usually on campus during the caucus, but this year the caucus date is
early and they will be home for a few weeks on winter break.

These people are residents of these college towns. They are counted in the
censuses in these towns.

These college students have always caucused in Iowa. I participated in the
caucuses in Ames, Iowa--and I was not from Ames. It's never been
an issue, nor has any candidate complained about helping these college
students caucusing--until now.

Hillary is complaining. And who benefits if the young, progressive college
students don't vote in Iowa? Hillary does--because the vast majority of the
youth and progressive voters are for Obama, Edwards and Kucinich.

What a farce to blame Obama for helping these Iowa college students to vote
while failing to notice that Hillary is trying to demonize Iowa college students
who want to participate in their caucuses--as they have always done!

Is Mrs. Clinton trying to lose Iowa? She's frickin running off the rails. Besides
planting questions, lying about the planted questions and then planting more
questions---she's now insinuating that Iowa college students who go home for winter
break--shouldn't come back and caucus.

As someone who doesn't support Hillary Clinton--I'm happy to see her digging
her own political grave.

[zulchzulu]

66. Thanks for your observation

Hillary's tactic on this is so transparent.

She is willing openly to stop people from voting because her polling data points to how she will not get many votes. That's enough reason to frankly ask her to drop her name from the race.

Who knows what she will say tomorrow. Different day, different opinion.

[MethuenProgressive]

70. "As someone who doesn't support Hillary Clinton" No! Really??

:rofl:

[CoffeeCat]

72. Is it that obvious?

Yes, I proudly DON'T support Mrs. Clinton, but that
doesn't change the facts in this story.

What she's attempting to do is really beyond the pale.

I did a bit of reading on what she said last night.

Not only is she lambasting Obama for encouraging Iowa
college students to caucus (which has been going on in
this state for decades), she's attempting to position his
actions as shady, in order to turn Iowans against him.

I'm not an Obama supporter. I haven't decided yet, but
one thing I do know for sure. Iowans understand and
take seriously their caucus process. They know how it
works. They know Clinton is playing dirty tricks.

She's toast in Iowa.

[zulchzulu]

74. You nailed it...again...

Hillary is assuming Iowans are stupid...that's what I've assessed from this. She is showing her true colors and they are mostly mud brown.

[CoffeeCat]

76. Yes, Clinton assumed Iowans were hayseeds...

Exactly, Hillary rolled into Iowa, apparently assuming that
Iowans were a bunch of rolling tumbleweeds.

Her behavior in this state--in my opinion--has been insulting.

First, she planted those questions. Her campaign openly asked
Iowa college students to ask certain questions, as part of some
kind of disingenuous staged performance.

I'm proud of the two Iowa citizens who came forward--via the media--
to reveal that the Hillary camp did this. Shucky darn! I guess
we're not so busy watching Hee Haw, after all!

And Iowans are further insulted when she fabricates vicious lies
about Obama that only hold water if you don't understand
the Iowa caucus process. Hillary has the audacity to suggest that
it is underhanded to urge Iowa college students on their semester
break, to return to their Iowa college towns for the caucuses. Hillary
attacks this very legal and longstanding Iowa practice and elevates
it to, "Obama is busing in out-of-staters to caucus for him!"

Does she really assume that Iowans don't understand our own caucus process?

Does she understand how insulting she is? Way to win those Iowa hearts
and minds!

[zulchzulu]

77. Perfect analysis n/t

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

6. Whoa! Great post, Mr. Zulu!

:applause:

[bagrman]

10. K & R

[Dawgs]

13. To me it's as simple as a candidate asking legitimate voters to caucas.

Why am I not surprised that this kind of ATTACK is coming from Hillary?

[MethuenProgressive]

23. "If you are not from Iowa" = "legitimate voters?

Aren't people from Iowa supposed to be the ones caucusing? Not "not from Iowa" people?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

34. according to the law, yes they are legitmate

if you have a problem with the law, write a letter to Iowa's Secretary of State.

It's very clear that Iowa students CAN caucus, assuming they aren't registered in two states, are Dems, etc.

[Debi]

36. Yes, according to Iowa law students from out of state who attend Iowa universities

can register to vote and participate in the caucuses.

Is this the hard-core caucus training I've heard so much about from the local Clinton staffers? I can tell you that any of the Iowa staff know better.

[jenmito]

25. I'm not surprised. She's getting desperate. She also just flip-flopped on her claim that Obama

wanted to be president since kindergarten. Today she put out a statement that we can't trust the presidency to someone who didn't desire to run for president 'til their first day in the Senate a few years ago. (paraphrasing)

[BeyondGeography]

17. Hillary: Get lost, Iowa students...See ya in the general

Great post.

[MethuenProgressive]

26. Obama: Come to the Illinois Caucus in Iowa! Free ride back to college for your vote!

All completely legal, of course...

[Scriptor Ignotus]

35. as stated several times

this is in fact legal.

[MethuenProgressive]

38. Compensation for your vote? A 'free' bus ride back to college from Illinois?

How much would that cost if they weren't going to caucus in Iowa for Obama?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

53. I thought your problem was out of state student's voting in the caucus

now it's getting bussed in for free? Don't throw out your back moving the goalposts of this debate around.

We prove you wrong on point A, then you bring up point B. We prove you wrong on point B, then you bring up point C...

Anyway, post a link about the bussing if you could. I couldn't find anything online from the Obama campaign about it.

[zulchzulu]

63. That always seems to happen with some Hillary supporters

It's Game. Set. Match. Then it's as though they want to overturn the table, maybe try to change the subject and the say they "won"...

:shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

68. I'm not allowed to find more than one thing about the Obama Plot less than honest?

Thank you for telling me about the new DU rule.
He wants the "If You Are Not From Iowa" students to caucus as though they are from Iowa so desperately he's willing to compensate them with "free" bus trips from their homes in Illinois to Iowa.
It's become the Illinois Caucus for ObamaNation.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

75. every campaign is desperate for votes

Hillary's is, Kerry's was, Bush's was, Obama's is, etc etc. You think the candidates would do half the stupid crap they do if they weren't? Is the Iowa State Fair really that awesome that all the candidates show up for it because they don't want to miss the excitement? But in any event, I would still love to see a link to the Obama campaign stating that they will bus students in for free.

There is no DU rule about moving goalposts, it's just a debate tactic used by people who get proven wrong a lot. I could move the goalposts of our argument and say impoverished disabled people should never be given a free ride to the polls by campaigns, according to your logic. But honestly I don't know enough about election laws and it's probably different for every state.

[Debi]

39. You also know that is incorrect, you just keep repeating lies hoping

someone new doesn't read that older threads and catch you.

Is this the campaign strategy? Repeat lies enought times and they'll become true.

[MethuenProgressive]

42. "Repeat lies enought times and they'll become true."

Call things 'lies' enough and they become 'lies'?

[Debi]

44. I have Iowa Law and the Rules for Caucuses from the Iowa Democratic Party backing up my comments

What do you have other than a Clinton Campaign press release?

[MethuenProgressive]

67. "If You Are Not From Iowa" we can slip you into the caucus anyway- Obama

debi, you can wave your rulebook in the air all you want to - it doesn't make Obama's plot to disenfrancise people "Who Are From Iowa" any less slimey. The big boys are in town, and they're playing you.

[Debi]

73. Big Boy?

Who is a big boy? Who talks like that? What does 'playing you' mean?

How is a campaign ensuring that people who can legally participate in the political process are able to participate in the process disenfranchising people?

[zulchzulu]

45. Funny...that....

It seems to be an apparent pattern on the person you commented to. I'm sure he/she will comment on this... it just kicks the thread, so I don't mind.

:hi:

[ClarkUSA]

65. The Clinton campaign has taken a page out of Rove's handbook.

Obviously.

[MethuenProgressive]

69. Are they giving student "Not From Iowa" bus rides from their homes in Illinois to vote in Iowa?

ObamaNation has found a loophope so big they can drive dozens of buses full of students from their homes back in Illinois through it.
No doubt Obama will be handing out the proper paperwork so the students can go back home and vote for him there, too. Chicago politics: first graveyards voted, now the Grayhound Bus is.

[zulchzulu]

78. I wonder what Hillary's college student supporters think?

I mentioned in the OP about how a woman from Minnesota is going to caucus for her...has she gotten the memo?

[killbotfactory]

30. More students support Obama

Which means students participating in the caucuses are an outrage! An outrage I tell's ya!

[Debi]

40. Don't trust anybody UNDER the age of thirty!

And don't let those little whipper snappers participate in the political process!

[zulchzulu]

47. LOL

How dare the kiddies vote!

Seriously though, not going after the seniors who live in Iowa a lot less during the year seems to be a tactic that the Clinton campaign would rather not harp about. I wonder why?

:rofl:

[Debi]

49. The contribute the $$$$ n/t

[AtomicKitten]

60. Her campaign has been reduced to posturing and sniveling.

Thanks for your research, Z. You probably recall this BS charge lobbed at Kerry in 2004. Same shit, different election.

Gobama.

[zulchzulu]

61. Thanks for checking it out

I hate wasting time on stuff like this that shouldn't even be an issue...

[ClarkUSA]

80. Question: What HASN'T Hillary Clinton's campaign displayed obvious hypocrisy about?

*crickets*