Is the Obamatons brief detente with Opinion polls coming to an end?

[SaveElmer]

With the slew of favorable polls for Hillary today...leading in Iowa according to two new polls, comfortably ahead in New Hampshire and South Carolina, and with her national number rebounding again...Obamatons seem like they are reverting to their good old poll denier ways again...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3786758

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3786783

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3786538&mesg_id=3786538

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3786263

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3785896&mesg_id=3785896

[wyldwolf]

1. I noticed it, too. Not really surprising.

[MNDemNY]

2. Yes, the crying is getting annoying.

[Kolesar]

5. Elmer is the annoying one...eom

[EV_Ares]

13. Don't know what poll he is talking about as MSNBC, CNN, everyone

else is talking about Obama's lead over Hillary. Was wondering when the Hillary talkers would start something up. Guess they still don't have anything to say about her and still in a panic so start on Obama again. LOL, really getting funny.

[Mass]

3. Hillary was ahead 2 to 3 weeks ago. . Given that Obama is ahead now, it is a great sign for him.

No need to whine. These polls continue to be good news for Obama supporters

:woohoo:

[Renew Deal]

4. Yes, and the Hillniacs are ending their denier ways.

That's what campaigns do with polls.

[jefferson_dem]

6. Actually, it was the HillaryMyrmidons who were "poo pooing" Zogby the other day...

So you think month-old data is "new," huh?

[wyldwolf]

7. along with the rest of the world, it seemed, except the Obamanation

[Mass]

8. Anyway, no reason to poo-poo these polls, added to more recent polls, they show that Hillary is

going down in Iowa.

[BootinUp]

14. Myrmidons?

we are lions. lol.

[jefferson_dem]

23. Not quite...

Myr·mi·don

1. Classical Mythology. one of the warlike people of ancient Thessaly who accompanied Achilles to the Trojan War.
2. (lowercase) a person who executes without question or scruple a master's commands.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Myrmidons

[BootinUp]

29. I guess if I said

that its silly for Obama supporters to claim higher ground with regard to scruples in battle you would disagree. lol.

[jenmito]

9. Sorry, but the "slew" of new polls are OLDER than the newest ones.

[HughMoran]

10. Omamatons?

Wow, that would not be funny if I was a hardcore Obama supporter.

Why tempt flame?

[MethuenProgressive]

20. The ObamaNation quickly became TheAbomiNation.

Which actually sound exactly the same with my accent.
I think the negnames came to the fore with "Clintonistas" - which means we've lower ourselves to Limbaugh level...

[MonkeyFunk]

11. I wish all sides would stop with the

demeaning names for supporters of candidates other their own. It's childish, and just provokes people unnecessarily.

[MethuenProgressive]

15. Only a very small subgroup ever achieves Named Status, MonkeyFunk.

It's the ones that wear their Names proudly that do all the provoke-people-ing, imo.

[racaulk]

17. Exactly right.

Thank you!

:applause:

[Tellurian]

18. Funky Monkey..

The only time I get upset is when they food fight..

The mess from flying tomatoes is brutal!

[Adelante]

19. I join you, MonkeyFunk

It's a supreme bore.

[SaveElmer]

22. You know what...

I would agree with you normally...and I usually try and refrain from it...

But there isn't an hour that goes by where Hillary's supporters aren't demeaned in some way...you know it...you have been at the receiving end of it...

Yet when the same is directed at Obama supporters, there is this outcry...

I will continue to refrain from using those terms for the most part...but as with schoolyard bullies sometimes hitting back is the thing to do...

I will look forward to the same criticism of name calling from Obama supporters in the myriad threads in which many of you who have responded are called dergatory names. I won't be holding my breath though!

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Yes

I certainly have been on the receiving end of it, and I find it childish and unnecessarily provocative. It's counter-productive to an actual discussion: it's just meant to belittle. I don't like it when it's done to me, and I don't do it to anybody else.

"He started it!" is usually not a very good defense for bad behavior.

[SaveElmer]

26. Yeah...

Sometimes it is....

[MonkeyFunk]

28. So it was your intent

to be childish and to provoke people?

[SaveElmer]

30. It was my intent...

To make those who use such terms on a regular basis...taste just a little bit of their own medicine...not that I expect it will have much affect...

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Any rational person would expect

the response to be an escalation of such childish name-calling.

So they do it, you feel justified in responding in kind, then they feel even more justified in doing it, etc. etc. etc.

I'm surprised anybody would expect a different outcome.

[SaveElmer]

34. You know what...

I'm gonna end this conversation now. You and I are generally on the same side of things...so don't want to start a verbal war with you. I have explained myself, and I have indicated that this is not something I do on a regular basis...I just wish I saw the same outrage over this elsewhere...

[MonkeyFunk]

35. Oh well

as long as you're ending the conversation... :eyes:

[Catherine Vincent]

39. Off topic a bit.....Why did you choose the name "monkeyfunk"? nt

[MonkeyFunk]

43. No real reason

just came to me. I liked the sound of it.l

[BeyondGeography]

42. It won't

and I'm fine with it. I try to keep my inner Obamaton under control, but sometimes I fail :P. Just as you wrestle with you inner Hillbot.

This is kind of a Bot thread, by the way, but it's High Quality Bot.

[racaulk]

60. You rang?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3787750#3787962

[ronnykmarshall]

25. No shit

I expect poop flinging to be next.

No offence Monkey, I know that's something monkeys like to do .... but GEEZE!

[Tellurian]

Elmer makes a good point though..

I never see the "decorum" police show up when we're under attack..
Maybe monkey's offspring are more introverted and subdued.

[MonkeyFunk]

38. I have objected

to the use of the term "hillbots", but to do so strenuously would appear to be whingeing of the first order.

[Tellurian]

40. Arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder..

It's the 'Truth be damned' concealment, many prefer to ignore.

[MonkeyFunk]

44. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean

[Tellurian]

46. OK, let's regroup and recap: I'll break this down into 2 parts..

Part I

MF said:

=="I have objected"

to the use of the term "hillbots", but to do so strenuously would appear to be whingeing of the first order."==

Tell said:

"Arbitrary and in the Eye of the Beholder" (explained)

You may consider your objection to the term "Hillbots" may not reach the threshold of what our definition of "objection" is to attacks. In other words, to us, your objection may be considered by Hillary supporters as, "noise".

[MonkeyFunk]

47. ah, thanks for clarifying

But nonetheless, I have objected to the use of the term "hillbot" and I objected similarly to the use of the term Obamaton.

Whether I have objected strenuously enough to both of them to please you isn't of much concern to me. My point remains that both terms are childish and only meant to provoke, not to foster discussion.

[Tellurian]

48. Well, then what would you use as proof of your assertion?

[MonkeyFunk]

49. I have to prove to you

that name-calling is childish and provocative?

[Tellurian]

50. Thats an idea if you could do it...

It is my contention when you make arbitrary statements based in absolutes, you're on the wrong track for continuing conversation.

[MonkeyFunk]

51. umm.... ok

Can you prove that name-calling is mature and productive?

I think you're really dragging this argument down about as low as it can go.

[Tellurian]

52. How so..

If we name called each other "honey" wouldn't that be considered mature and productive. Yes?

[MonkeyFunk]

53. I didn't say it was a scientific, proven fact

that name-calling was childish and provocative. It was clearly my opinion, and it's an opinion shared by just about every grown-up on the planet. To try to make me "Prove" my assertion is just silly.

If you want to defend name-calling, just do it. But don't expect reasonable people to agree with you.

[Tellurian]

54. The proof you're looking for exists within this thread..

Count the yeas and the nays..see which has a majority..

[MonkeyFunk]

55. OK

I see a lot of people agreeing with me, and only you and the OP defending it.

I don't get your point, but I really think we've reached the end of productive discussion here.

Name-call all you want. I, and others, will disagree about its utility.

[Tellurian]

56. Really..

lets not be disingenuous in the interests of self righteous indignation. Theres enough of that around these days to fill up Noah's Ark thrice over.

[MonkeyFunk]

57. You must be reading a different thread than I am

I see lots of people agreeing with me, and precious few with you.

Now just let it go - we have nothing new to add to this discussion.

[terrya]

33. Same here.

I cringe whenever I see the "Hillbots" stuff around here. And I don't like it when the supporters of other candidates do the same kind of thing.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. The PaidPosters took a snow day?

Oh wait.. it's the anti-Oprahbamas who get paid to post according the DUrban legend, ain't it? :rofl:

[suston96]

16. Read ALL the poll numbers....

This goes for everyone just glancing at who is leading and does not bother to read the rest.

Like that Pew poll that may have been done days ago and contains a wealth of demographics on the several most imminent primaries.

Most respectable pollsters do a complete coverage and deserve to be studied by really interested onlookers who know what counts in a poll.

[MethuenProgressive]

21. and pick just the ones that you like, and start a DU thread!

Then txt your buds with a pls kik & rec me message. You too can make the Greatest Page!

--- and honestly, suston's post is sound, reasonable, and helpful. The kind of post that'll usually never get the recognition it deserves on DU, because it doesn't start with "_____ sucks!"
Thanks, suston!

[Mojorabbit]

27. Are these poll posts really necessary?

They change from day to day it seems. I am more interested in the issues.

[suston96]

36. The best polls....

...probably, maybe actually, cover your issues.

Check out that PEW Poll. All of it. Not just the present leaders. Lots of other good stuff in that poll. And in many others.

Why do we check polls? Because we cannot afford to fly to Iowa, rent a room, and all that.

[Perry Logan]

31. You've got to admire the Obama people for trying--even when it makes them look dumb.

[beachmom]

37. I wouldn't trust any Iowa polls, honestly. Wait until the caucus. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

41. One problem: If the DMR poll wasn't the one to take most seriously

why is your girl all of a sudden throwing the kitchen sink at Obama?

[MaineDem]

45. "Obamatons" was not needed

The labeling has got to stop! On all sides.

[Kolesar]

65. It is childish mockery

It is as uncalled for as the RWers calling Mrs. Clinton "Hitlery"

[beachmom]

58. Um, whoops, looks like Peter Daou got himself into trouble on Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/3/143622/504

This morning, Clinton's internet director Peter Daou did a quick driveby to post a couple polls intended to contradict the recent wave of polling showing Clinton tied or falling to second place in Iowa polls. Daou pointedly didn't comment on when the polls were taken or their methodology.

Turns out both polls were sampled beginning the first week of November, conducted through mid-November, and finished well before the recent wave of polls showing a surge by Edwards and Obama. In the case of the Iowa State poll, the sample ended in mid-November.

Jonathan Stein of Mother Jones isn't having it.

So two issues here:

1. The polls were RELEASED today, but are out of date nevertheless
2. Peter Daou wrote a non-diary on Kos, which is really annoying, and didn't even stay for questions. Just because he works for Hillary, doesn't mean he can break Kos rules on diaries.

None of this negates my earlier comment, that it is foolish to pay too much attention to Iowa Caucus polls, but since so many Hillary supporters LIVE for polls, the devil is in the details here.

[suston96]

62. The inclusive dates of a poll.......

...are indeed important. But data is processed until the very last day.

The other contents of the poll's questionnaire in ADDITION to the principal choices of a candidate are also important.

Look into the entire poll and look for elements that transcend the glamour spot at the top.

What do I mean? Go look at any serious pollster's web site.

[Kolesar]

64. Daou used to be PeteNYC here. I wonder what the name of his "sockpuppet" on DU is now

D, A, O, U and sometimes "whine"

[zulchzulu]

59. We're busy pointing out the Hillary Clinton campaign's hypocrisy

It takes a lot of time since there is so much of it from the Clinton Camp.

Enjoy your polls. While you can...

:rofl:

[Tactical Progressive]

61. Voters are finally seeing what an empty suit Obama is

Anybody can speak empty words. Even George W Bush can speak empty words.

That's the last thing we need as a nation right now.

[Kolesar]

63. You didn't say much with those four sentences, either