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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:56 PM
Original message
Sen. Obama's Shifting Positions On Health Care For All
During this presidential campaign, Sen. Obama has had a variety of explanations for why his health care plan leaves 15 million people uninsured. Here's a sample —

Sen. Obama claimed his health care plan 'guarantees coverage for every American':

"Today I want to lay out the details of that plan - a plan that not only guarantees coverage for every American, but also brings down the cost of health care." (Sen. Obama Remarks, 5/29/07)

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/05/29/cutting_costs_and_covering_ame.php


THEN Sen. Obama admitted his health care plan would not provide coverage for every American:

"During his speech, Obama said, 'I will sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of my first term in office.' But after his speech today, Obama told me his plan really isn't 'universal.' He said it's 'virtually universal.'" (MSNBC's First Read, 5/29/07)

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/29/206916.aspx


THEN his spokesman said Sen. Obama believed the decision to require coverage should be left to the states:

"An Obama spokesman, Bill Burton, said that the senator now believes that the issue of mandates should be left to the states to decide, while the federal government focuses on bringing down healthcare costs for everyone. 'As he looked into healthcare, he saw that a mandate was not the answer,' Burton said. 'Good things are happening in the states. The federal government should not stunt what's going on with the states.'" (ABC's Political Radar, 5/31/07)

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/05/obama_healthcar.html


THEN Sen. Obama's advisors said they considered mandates; decided it was too ambitious and unpopular with middle class voters:

"Like so many in the Democratic Party, Obama's advisers remember all too well how excessive ambition killed the Clinton plan politically. They don't want to make that mistake again. They fear a mandate sounds scarier to the public, particularly middle-class voters." (The New Republic, 6/3/07)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/01/opinion/main2876886_page2.shtml


THEN Sen. Obama said his plan provides health care for everyone:

"Well, let's talk about health care right now because the fact of the matter is -- the fact of the matter is that I do provide universal health care." (CNN, 11/15/07)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711/15/se.02.html


THEN Sen. Obama admitted his plan does not cover everyone, said he would be 'happy to consider a mandate' later:

"Now, the argument they’ll make is there’s going to be maybe a handful of people who even if it’s affordable still won’t buy it. And my attitude is, you know what, I’m happy to consider a mandate once we get to affordability." (New Hampshire Public Radio, 11/21/07)


THEN Sen. Obama said he'll figure out how to cover everyone later:

"If we see there are people who are still not covered when we make it affordable, then we will figure out how to make sure that everybody's got coverage. Period." (Des Moines Register, 11/25/07)

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071125/NEWS09/711250336/-1/caucus[/div
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Right on cue
Just when Hillary criticized Obama's position on health care, implying that he has shifted positions on the issue, you come up with this.

Admirable.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. the facts say he either shifted his position repeatedly or forgot his position a number of times
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. FactHub, huh?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. uh... so? Anything not factual? Is MSNBC, CNN, Burton, and Obama wrong? Or...
...is posting this here the problem you have?
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I guess the facts must have an anti-Obama bias
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. well, katz. Anything NOT factual?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Yes, that you thought this up yourself.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. where was it stated "I thought this up myself." You replied just to reply.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. You posted this as though you did the research, assembled the "facts", and added your commentary.
You did not do this. You copied and pasted from another site. It fits the defenition of plagiarism.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:42 AM
Original message
amazing you think you have insight into my intent. No, sorry...
After the maze of setting up div tags and "excerpt" tags, I forgot to include the link. And, by the way, you can "copy and paste" in this format.

But, hey - can you disprove anything in the post? Or are you just made the facts are there to be seen by everyone?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
33. I disapprove of your plagiarism.
Nothing more, nothing less. I don't care about the content otherwise. At least be honest about the source. You still have time.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. ok.. fine... alert the mods. LOL! (since you can't debunk the content)
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. I just checked. You have 60 minutes to edit. That means you have 9 minutes left to be honest.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 10:47 AM by Bleachers7
It's your choice and your credibility.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. dude. The OP was made 3 days ago. My time was up about 71 hours ago. See the alert button?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. OK, sorry. I thought this was fresh. It doesn't change the fact this is dishonest.
You misrepresented this as your own even after you were told it wasn't. I used to find you credible. The "Obama scream" video made me doubt that. Now I know for sure.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. it doesn't change the fact I forgot to source it. Why would I do it intentionally?
Do you think I'M scared to post things from Clinton's website? LOL! Don't you know I get great joy out of pointing out that people who can't debunk facts always try to discredit it other ways? This is great fun for me.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. Why would you do it? Let's think about this.
You want to use this to attack Obama. Everyone would laugh it off if it was linked to Hillary's site. You'll get more out of it by posting this without the source link. You were told 13 minutes after posting it that you forgot the link. Yet you didn't correct it.

It's your credibility. You may not care about it and neither do I. But the fact that you were intentionally dishonest is shameful. That may be fun for you. It disgusts the rest of us.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. ha ha. Completely invalid reasoning from you
You want to use this to attack Obama.

Right. I'm with you so far.

Everyone would laugh it off if it was linked to Hillary's site.

But everyone didn't. :shrug: And those who would/did only did so because they could not challenge the content. If Hillary's site said 2+2=4, would you laugh it off?

You were told 13 minutes after posting it that you forgot the link.

Really? Where?

I think you've seriously overestimated how much I care what you or anyone thinks of me. If you can only attack the source and not challenge the content, it is your credibility that suffers.



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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. OK
I don't have enough time to play this game anymore. It's all out for everyone to see. Just like the Obama video, you put politics above honesty.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. ha ha. Oh, that is so rich!
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. Yes, it's all out there, and you have got nothing
but blather
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Eeuuwww....
CQPolitics does it for them for free -
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. You can set your watch by it.
Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 09:55 PM by AtomicKitten
The HUB says bark, and the sycophants bring it here and start barking.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

On edit: And, um, considering Hillary's epic failure to create policy before on this issue, her camp isn't particularly knowledgeable except for knowing how to fail at it, ergo their critique is nonsense at best.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. The level of dishonesty by the OP is shameful.
He/she should have at least linked to the source. They misrepresented this as their own which is shameful.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. show me the part that isn't factual?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. The part where you didn't link back to Hillary Hub.
You're misrepresnting this as your own. At least link back to Hillary Hub. There's nothing wrong with that. You have 15 minutes to do so.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. hmm... so since I forgot to link to the source... that is "not factual?"
:crazy:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. No, it's not credible
Once again, you misrepresented this as your own. It's not your own. You have time to correct your mistake. My only issue is around the dishonesty. I don't care about the accuracy. It's your credibility.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. disprove it, then. Find counter links that make the content lies.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Why should he? Why should you not have to prove that these snippets out of context represent
the spirit of Obama's plan.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. because the burden of proof is not on me. If he says it isn't factual, his job is to prove it.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. It is not factual because whoever wrote that tries to have us believe that they changed their
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 10:51 AM by Mass
position using snippets.

Once again, Obama's position is clear: affordability is what matters. If you cannot afford health insurance, making it mandatory will not help you. It will only help the big insurance lobby.

Of course, once it is affordable, we can think of making it mandatory, but before that, it is simply BS.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. disprove it, then. Find counter links that make the content lies.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Why should I? Prove that it represents Obama's plan spirit?
You offered no proof of what you said. Every single statement in here by Obama says the same thing. What his supporters say also say the same thing. It is the spin that the Clinton clan has put on them that is not honest.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. because you're the one challenging it.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. I have nothing to prove. I said that what Obama said in the quotes is correct and right.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 11:03 AM by Mass
Now, you are the one saying that what he said is wrong. Prove it. Until then, bye. No need to argue with people who are simply making up stories.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. yeah, "correct and right" until he changed his mind then back again.
So, yeah, buh bye!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
70. changed his mind then back again? - are we taliking about Bill Clinton?!?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Yanno, these HRC people over here are making me dislike their candidate..
And that's truly unfortunate. What if this board is just a small slice, a demographic if you will, of America.. and Democrats-at-large are being bombarded with all this negativity day after day.. instead of info. Would be a shame if she'd actually been destined for this and was brought down by her supporters and campaign advisors.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. At this point he will offer to make free personal house calls, hot toddy included
:toast:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. And do it "prayerfully" IF you join his Kingdom!
what a crock of crap!
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ouch! A 10% Drop In Just A Month!
http://www.newsandpolicy.com/news/2007/11/obama-surge-continues-reduces-clinton-lead-by-10-p.html

Since you think that polls are important, this has *gotta* be rough on you!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ouch! Still leading by double digits in all Feb. 5 states.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. Like a fish out of water...floppin like mad...
Can hardly keep up...

Either he willfully changes his tune to fit the days talking points...Obama would NEVER do that I am sure... politics of hope and all that...or...

He just doesn't know what is in his own plan...

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Not only forgets the Plan but forgets the question and sometimes who he's talking to..
I can see why he would have a problem debating Hillary one on one!
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R! Now that kinda waffling would NEVER hurt him in the General Election.
Nah.

great thread!


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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. You would do your candidate better service by starting threads that explain why HRC is better
rather than these desperate attack posts.

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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. No kidding!
If only we used TeamJordan23's "positive" posts as an example. What a happy, wonderful place DU would be.



























:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::spray::spray::spray::spray::rofl::rofl::rofl:































:rofl:
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:spray::spray::spray::spray:




















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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. ha ha! That is hysterical from you. Hey... can you disprove anything in the post?
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Spirit of 34 Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm not a Kucinich supporter
but he's the only candidate who has a plan that looks less like a Rube Goldberg contraption designed to marginally expand coverage while continuing to enrich the health insurance companies and more like, well, a plan that has been used by the rest of the industrialized world for many decades. Ya know, the countries that figured out that nationalizing health insurance was not actually the first step on the long road to Stalinism?

Both Hillary and Obama's plans are jokes. Pitiful sops to the greedy and irrationally fearful.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Criminalizing insurance coverage is not guaranteeing it
His plan guarantees every American who wants coverage can get it and get help paying for it. He doesn't pretend forcing somebody to choose between the law and dinner is universal health care.

What a massive load of crap.
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
21. This?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
22. Your post is dishonest.
You did not attribute this to it's source. You are misrepresenting this as your own. That's shameful.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. um... so because amid all the div set ups and excerpts, I forgot to link the source...
..that makes the content dishonest?

Take the Challenge, Bleachers7! DISPROVE something in the post! :rofl:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. It doesn't matter if the dishonest. You are. You have 15 mintutes to fix your mistake.
You have until 10:56 to correct this.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. actually, there's a 30 minute window, but again...
... if you're not aware of the mistake in that period, then you can't fix it. But no worries, someone in the thread stated the source just 8 itty bitty minutes later.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Not, it's 60 minutes. Try it.
So if you knew the source and didn't fix it within 8 minutes, you were intentionally dishonest. It's a shame.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. well, it is 15 or is it 60? LOL! But didn't you read my last reply?
If I had no idea I forgot the source link in that time period, I had no cause to correct it.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. You knew 13 minutes after you posted it.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 10:54 AM by Bleachers7
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. no I didn't. How does your link in any way show that?
:shrug:
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
32. And you know what? he is right. Clearly, you never have had to buy an health insurance with a small
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 10:45 AM by Mass
salary AND a medical condition. You would know that it is probably something you cannot afford even if you need it, so it is more important to make sure that it is affordable than that it is mandatory (as if the problem was that people did not want to buy health insurance - Of course, the best solution is single payer, so Obama is not perfect, but it is far better than the "health insurance is a duty" philosophy of other candidates.

Obama wants to cover everybody and will find the best solution to do so. The best solution is to make it affordable, and later, may he, mandatory, not to force people to buy insurances that are out of price in the first place. Good for him.

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
59. So let's be clear then. Obama does not support Universal Health Care
and you support his postponing of universal health care until it becomes "affordable"
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Hilllary's healthplan is not universal either. Only universal healthcare is single payer.

Giving a penalty to those who do not buy healthcare does not do anything to achieve universality, except if you believe that people who do not have insurance are reckless.

Without single payer, Hillary's insurance is no better than Obama. For poor people who cannot afford insurance, it is actually worse.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. That's just stupid
There are no penalties and universal coverage does not have to be single payer.

Obama does not support UNIVERSAL Health Care and you are OK with that.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. If there is no penalty. how is it different from Obama's plan?
I understand the desperation, but get real, Obama supports universal healthcare just as much as Clinton.

And thank you for the "it is just stupid". I could return the compliment to you.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. You obviously are unfamiliar with both plans
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 06:34 PM by cuke
I suggest you go to their respective websites and read about their plans

But I see the Obama is now, once again, supporting UNIVERAL health care in your mind. A few minutes ago, you were saying Single Payer was the only UHC and Obama is not proposing single payer. You might want to re-read what you just said a short while ago because you are now saying the opposite. Sort of the same way Obama changes his mind from moment to moment
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. No, I was saying that they are as much universal one than the other.,.
In my opinion, none is.

And I know both plans, not what the supporters of both sides say. they are very similar, better than any Republican plans, and the only difference I see is that Hillary thinks that people who are uninsured are reckless people, so you have to force them to do so.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. You said Obama's plan wasn't universal. Now you're saying it is
And now you're saying the two plans are "very similar" when before they were so very different
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. LOL.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 06:44 PM by Mass
I suggest you learn how to read first... Then read his plan on his website.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/HealthPlanFull.pdf
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Sure, you said that Obama's plan was "far better" then Hillary's plan
Now you're saying they are "very similar".

And you complained about mandates, even though Obama's plan also includes mandates
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Well, if Hillary's plan does not offer a mandate, which is what you say, the plans are
fairly similar and I do not get her objections.

If it does, which is what I read on her website, I disagree with her. People who do not have healthcare do not have it because they cannot afford it. Saying that they HAVE to have it will not help. So, yes, if I read her plan correctly, I prefer Obama's plan, as incomplete as it is. "healthcare is a right, not a duty".

But, of course, it is too hard to understand when you read from a talking point list.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Hillary's plan DOES have a mandate. Can't you get anything right?
And Hillary's plan provides free coverage to the poor and limits the premiums of others to a percentage of their income GARAUNTEEING that it is affordable. Your argument that her plan forces people to buy insurance they can't afford is as delusional as your claim that I said Clinton's plan had no mandates

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. *crickets*
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