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The Abortion Issue is A BIG LOSER for the GOP.

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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:36 PM
Original message
The Abortion Issue is A BIG LOSER for the GOP.
I remember when Chimpy was running, he was able to sort of "talk in code" to the Fundies about abortion, and that is good enough. Constructionist judges and the like used to be like, wink wink I'll end abortion. He never had to say "abortion should be illegal."

Well, dumb as they are, they still can tell when they've been had; and the bones they've been thrown are not good enough.

Poor old (like....OLD!!) Fred Thompson, tried to find some kind of "Leave it to the States" middle ground on MTP and ended up losing a lot of Fundie votes by not coming right out and saying "abortion is murder!" It didn't go over that well with the "base," (and left him plum tuckered out besides!)

The problem the GOP is going to have after turning that lather up to a boil to manipulate the Fundies and get BushCo in - is that they are finding it impossible to turn the Freep abortion hysteria down to a low boil.

And the vast majority of the people in the US don't want Saudi Arabian abortion laws.

Basically, Rove used up all that capital electing GWB, whose economic policiies just made for MORE abortions. So the GOP is going to choke on this issue from now on. It's going to be hard to position themselves as saving us from the homoseckshuls with all the GOP sex scandals.

So now they're down to "9/11 9/11 9/11!"

They're toast, IMO.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Karma's a bitch.
I hope that's what chokes them. They chose to ride on the backs of all those fundies and
they deserve to be trampled by them now.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. They can SO choke on it!!!
I get so sick of them acting all holier than thou -- when they do everything possible to make it harder and harder to actually raise a child in this country without being a freaking millionaire!

If they're so into fetuses -- they can get behind day care and health care for kids and other things that make it feasible to give them a decent life!
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. If pro-choicers actually vote Democratic, then you are right
But what we have seen in the last few election cycles is that the anti-abortionists vote lockstep Republican and then about 20-25% of the pro-choicers vote Republican anyway.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's why I pray for a Giuliani nomination.
No, I don't like the guy, but he's pro-choice.

What will all the frothing, demented, anti-choice womb grabbers do then?
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If you as me they need a THIRD PARTY!!
Hey fundies, TIME TO LEAVE THE GOP! THINK OF THE BAYBEEEEZ!

Seriously though nothing increases abortion like Reaganomics. They have SO many abortions in Mexico just for that reason, and that's a Catholic country! I think finally they are legalizing it, after having a thriving back-alley & botanical biz for decades.

The other abortion-increasing GOP thing is making birth control products & info harder to come by.

Even though abortions were illegal, they had WAY more in the 30's than the 40's & 50's, because DUH! People couldn't afford to have kids!!!

If you want to encourage people to have kids, stop making it so it costs a million dollars for their health care & education! I don't regret having them but honestly we would be wealthy if not for all the teeth and bones in our family, but at least we make enough and have good enough (read: UNION) benefits, HOW DO MINIMUM WAGERS PAY FOR DOCTORS, DENTISTS, COLLEGE???
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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. they'll rally around him late in order to...........
defeat Hillary Clinton. The religious right leaders will come around late on Rudy because they'll want so badly to beat Rudy.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Possible, as far as the Hillary thing goes.
Many of the rabid RW'ers might stay home because they cannot stand to vote for a "baby killer."

They're a one issue bunch, those womb grabbers. To the point of it being a mental illness.
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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. what I'm saying is that they'll come out in force..........
to vote AGAINST Hillary. Their hatred of her trumps their feelings about Rudy. I'm very confident this will happen if we see a Hillary vs. Rudy general election.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Oh, yeah, I understood what you were saying.
Edited on Tue Nov-06-07 03:30 PM by Vektor
I was trying to figure out which would be the stronger driving force - not voting at all, because they cannot stand to vote for a pro-choice candidate, or voting for him anyway, because they hate Hillary.

I know with the "absolutists" - the breed of right winger so demented that they want a 100% anti-choice candidate who will ban women's reproductive freedoms across the board, and care about nothing else, those people will not vote for Rudy - or Hillary.

They are one issue voters and are psychotically rabid on this issue of anti-choice.



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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. gotcha..........
I think the GOP would have their work cut out for them with the one issue voters you speak of, and I do agree they exist. Matter of fact I spoke to one at work today, and she said she'll stay home if its Rudy vs. Hillary. Still, I think the GOP will figure out a way to get these folks out on election day. Frankly I think they'll stoop to absurd levels to do so (Hillary will ban the Bible, Hillary will force your children to watch gay porn in kindergarten etc.). For me, it boils down to simply not trusting this part of the electorate to work it all out. I think they'll reluctantly come out and vote against Hillary when all is said and done. The amount of one issue folks who stay home will be more than counterbalanced by the "swing" voters who think Rudy did a smashing job on 9/11 and will keep their kids safe in the future because he talks tough about "terrorists".
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I know what you mean.
Sad that so many cast their votes based not on the actual merit of the candidates, but because they are plagued by irrational fears about "baby-killing" "terrorists" and "the homosexual agenda" and want to be protected from these things.

Which is madness. The threat lives in their heads, and these political hacks prey upon it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Plus, we'll get to talk all of the details of 9/11 24/7. nt
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Eeeew.
There is that.

Another election cycle of exploiting 9/11 for political gain. Good times.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. It has always been an unholy union
and in the end the business "free market" side with all the money will keep going after profiting from duping the social conservatives.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hey check it out....FR food fight over FT's abortion stance
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Interesting change at FR since they started approving EVERY post before printing it...
...the mods proofread and spell-check them now before they hit the forum. Remember when they were allowed to post without the benefit of heavy editing? Every damn word was misspelled, no punctuation or grammar could be found, and nearly every post bordered on illiteracy.

They must have finally gotten embarrassed about it, and decided to try to clean up their act.

Sadly, you can not polish a turd. The bilge they spew is toxic, even if they have spell-checked it.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Are you series???? They're ALL proofed? That's hugh!!
Oh no, that's going to be a damper--they had the best spelling over there. A couple of weeks ago one of them yelled at another one for calling Ann Coulter a vial name. Something about that just cracked me up. SHE'S SO VIAL!
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Best part of the Fred Thompson transcript:
"So while you believe that life begins at conception, the taking of a human life?" said Russert.

"Yes, I, I, I, I do," said Thompson.



HE, HE, HE, HE, HE DOES....LOL!!!
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. That one must have slipped by spell-check.
Because "vial" is a correctly spelled word.

Yeah, you cannot post ANYTHING on FR without it being inspected, approved, and edited now.

Which is why most of the spelling is better now, and there are NO opposing viewpoints appearing at all.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. That's an indication that they get about twelve posts a day over at FR.
It probably takes all the freeper mods working together about an hour to clean up each post, so they're fortunate that the number of folks posting on FR has dwindled to the teens.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. "Either we are for constitutional law or we are not."
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! They seem to not have quite decided that yet! Hilarious. :rofl:
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. This is very interesting, actually.
The Republican party is being neatly divided into two camps: the Old School Repubs, who want small government and lower taxes (who are supporting Thompson in his statement that abortion should be up to the state) and the Neocons, as represented by this loon here:

I guess big government is OK so long as you agree with it?

That's exactly right! 100 percent correct! I want the government to be as big as it has to be to stop the murder of innocent babies! I want the government to be as big as it has to be to protect our borders, deport millions of invaders, and kill the terrorists we're at war with! That's why I'm a conservative and not a loony liberaltarian!

Dividing them is the ONLY way to get past the current shift to the right in this country. They've voted as a solid block for the past two pres elections, but they have HUGE ideological differences, and it's just a nice bonus that one of their own candidates is driving the wedge in for us. :)
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fools; they should really support same-sex marriage
Once our "Gay Agenda" has succeeded in giving everyone "the gay," there will be no need for abortions. :rofl:
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. LOL!!!! Good plan!
I have to say I would love that about being in a gay relationship, birth control can be such a hassle & moodkill for those of us who have still not fallen to your recruiters, LOL!
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. They're really anti-contraceptionists. They can't handle Plan B nt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Do you think some are beginning to see the stark contradiction of
being sooooooooo sensitive about blastocysts, but give a shit about dead Iraqi children? AND ready, willing, and eager to kill Iranian children!! Do you think people are starting to see their obvious lying hypocrisy because of their Wars?
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Oh HECK no!!!
Nah they don't see any of that.....I just think they're starting to feel like suckers and they want a candidate toactually SAY OUT LOUD that are going to end abortion. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! CUZ WHOEVER SAYS THAT LOSES!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. That's fine, except that the Fundies don't believe that more
abortion is occurring under Bush. Their wingnut machine is spinning it so that they believe that those facts are propaganda by the left.

They wouldn't believe their heads were attached to their bodies if Rush told 'em not to.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. I disagree.
In a recent CNN poll, 18% of GOP voters said they would bolt to a third party anti-abortion candidate if Giuliani gets the nod.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Those rabid, frothing, anti-choice absolutists
are a chilling bunch. Obsessed one issue voters whose first priority is to strip women of their reproductive freedoms - nothing else matters more to them.

It's pathological, and very disturbing. I used to work with a few of them when I lived in a much redder county, and they came across as wild-eyed and psychotic when they talked about the issue.

Interestingly - the more anti-choice they were, the more they would brag about how they used very harsh corporal punishment to "keep their kids in line" - deep fetus worship that quickly turned to a lot of physical "discipline" when the kids were still quite young.

One woman told me, "God gave them all that extra padding back there so you had a good place to whack em' without hurting your hand!"

Yes, God gave your children buttocks so you could comfortably beat them, then brag about it to your co-workers.

Her children were two and five years old.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. What scares me most about these militant fanatics is they are led
by smart players who have employed teams of attorneys across this nation to challenge and put in place outrageous regulations because, if they can't make abortions illegal on a federal level, they have every intention of making them inaccessible at a local level. And it is working. I see it in my line of work every day with excruciatingly detailed informed consent talking about counseling women regarding alternatives including adoption, etc. It's really much more insidious than people know.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I believe you.
It's horrible. I understand that while abortion is still "legal" on a federal level, it is incredibly difficult to find a place that actually provides the service. Many providers have been bullied and threatened out of terminating pregnancies, and the thing that is most infuriating is that these fundies do not care about "babies" at all. They simply want to control women, take away women's rights, and provide not one red cent, or one grain of assistance to any woman who has children she cannot afford to feed, clothe, or provide health care for.

If they were really "pro-life" they would put as much energy into seeing to it that children had food and health care, as they do into making sure that women are forced to carry and birth children they simply cannot provide for. The "Protected Until Birth, Then You're On Your Own" mantra is what they're all about.

Also disturbing, is their tendency to lecture women about the "irresponsibility" of creating babies they cannot feed, while turning a blind eye to the men who helped create those pregnancies. Any suggestion that the fundies consider counseling MEN about preventing unwanted pregnancies, or being sexually responsible is met with resistance. "The whore should have kept her legs closed, but since she didn't, she better have that baby, and face her responsibility." Often, they have no interest in chastising the man involved, or encouraging him to shoulder any responsibility.

This is in no way meant to be an anti-man rant. I'm simply pointing out how sexist the frothing right wing is.



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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Abortion is a HUGE MONEYMAKER for the GOP
The last thing the GOP wants to do is get rid of Roe vs. Wade. It is the biggest moneymaker for them. Drumming up for the Clintons is probably second.

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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's a voting issue for 16-20 year old kids only.
And then it's only an issue for the too dumb to use birth control peeps.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I'm sorry? What on earth are you talking about?
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. It's for HS and 1st year college kids...
Edited on Tue Nov-06-07 07:34 PM by ileus
I was coming back to correct this last entry.

No not baiting. When i was a kid in HS and for my first few years in college Abortion was a major issue with me. Now that I'm an adult abortion is 99th on my list of voting issues. Sorry but I just don't believe it's an adult plank in our party.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Oh, I see. You're baiting us.
Never mind. Enjoy your short stay!
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Well, that's sweet.
Edited on Tue Nov-06-07 07:43 PM by janesez
Maybe check in with anyone you know who has a uterus? Do you actually KNOW any girls?
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. ...
Edited on Tue Nov-06-07 07:55 PM by ileus
No not a one, maybe the 700 nurses I work with are fake.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Do that. Or any women, really.
Good lord.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I tend to agree with that . . .
I think it probably does skew somewhat toward the younger vote, but what about older voters whose minds have not matured beyond their teens-early-twenties?

BTW, not everyone here thinks those who disagree on somepoints don't belong here.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. Mini-riot in downtown Chicago a couple years ago were mostly middle aged women.

Pharmacist refused to fill a birth-control prescription. In rural America I imagine most women would politely let this pass. But you try this shit with some Fortune 500 executive, well.... She went OFF on the pharmacist. Other professional women hearing this started hollering it out on the street, and the store became mobbed by angry, shouting women til the Chicago Police dispersed the crowd and the pharmacy closed its doors for a few hours.

Within 24 hours the governor signed an executive order permitting pharmacies to fire a pharmacist who refused to fill prescriptions. And a certain pharmacist in downtown Chicago joined the ranks of the unemployed.

So in Chicago, at least, adult women take this shit VERY serious.

Which is one reason I'd almost enjoy letting states ban abortion. You will see industry dry up and DIE in any state stupid enough to do it. This is not 1970. Women have POWER now.


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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. I don't get Ron Paul...
He talks about the Constitution and our freedoms ~ but doesn't think women should have the right to choose??? :wtf:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. People it affects the most - Women < 30 don't vote. It's not as high a priority for others. nt
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
43. Never underestimate the Fundy's capacity for hypocrisy. /nt
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
45. "(and left him plum tuckered out besides!)"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I remember my brother telling me in 2004 that he "simply can't vote for a guy (Kerry) who believes in killing babies."

Actual quote.

I never fail to remind him how Dumbass George hasn't done JACKSHIT about making abortions illegal, and abortions are actually on the INCREASE.

Culture of life, my left nut.
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