Clinton supporters downplay ties to anti-gay ministers

[NMMNG]

Some say Obama ‘crossed a line’ with gospel event

<snip>

Obama was assailed last week for allowing gospel singer Donnie McClurkin to appear at a South Carolina campaign event, but the endorsement of Clinton by at least two anti-gay black ministers has so far not generated similar outrage.

“I don’t know if that’s the same as, ‘Here’s a microphone — you can speak for my campaign,’” said Ryan Wilson of the South Carolina Gay & Lesbian Pride Movement.

<snip>

Some of Clinton’s gay supporters, along with unaligned gays such as Wilson, said they’re generally unconcerned that anti-gay ministers Bishop Eddie Long and Rev. Harold Mayberry are supporting the campaign.


<snip>

He said “there’s a whole big difference” between Clinton accepting a $1,000 donation from Long and Obama allowing a man who espouses “ugly things about gays and lesbians” to speak during a campaign event.

<snip>

http://washblade.com/2007/11-2/news/national/11496.cfm">Full Text



I am not a Clinton supporter, of course, but I do agree that Obama's actions were worse than Clinton's. I thought I'd post this since some here seem to think that this alleged "hypocrisy" is peculiar to DU. It obviously isn't.

And now, pile on. :popcorn:

[IndianaJones]

1. I am disgusted by these individuals as well. It will be interesting to see if they are...

fiercely defended by other Clinton supporters.

[MethuenProgressive]

2. A bigot is a bigot.

Whether the star performer and MC of a candidate's fundraising Gospel Tour, or a minor donor.

[NMMNG]

4. A bigot is a bigot, of course of course

But there are levels of bigotry, and there are lengths to which people allow their bigots to go on their behalf. Therein lies the difference.

[MethuenProgressive]

5. Exactly.

:kick:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. I am honestly disappointed in you

You have been one of the biggest Obama detractors because of McClurkin. But unlike the obvious Clinton supporters, who are opportunistically exploiting the outrage, you appeared to be basing it on principle. It was wrong to pander to a bigot. Period. That is an unassailable argument.

Now you're saying some pandering is okay as long as it falls within certain 'lengths'. Bullshit. Now that Clinton's homophobic supporters have been publicly revealed, she should return their contributions and reject their endorsements or face the same condemnation Obama (deservedly) got for not pulling McClurkin from the concert. Either that or this was about trashing Obama all along for you.

[Sapphocrat]

47. What's next, the "moral relativity" cry?

If you don't get it by now, just ditch that pink-triangle avatar and move on.

[Chovexani]

3. I agree that Obama's actions were worse, BUT

That does not give Clinton a pass in the least.

Personally the reason I'm so mad at Obama is because I was foolish and expected to live up to this "politics of hope" BS he always spouts. I think it's reprehensible that Clinton took money from Eddie Long and has those anti-gay asshats heading her campaign in SC but you know what? That sort of thing is par for the course for her...I almost expect it, she's Machiavellian like that.

This McChickenhead thing felt like a sucker punch because Obama is so much better than that. I guess he's not after all.

[NMMNG]

6. I don't give Clinton a pass at all

I just consider Obama's actions worse.

As you said, for Clinton such behavior for her is "par for the course". Obama keeps demanding that people who espouse racist viewpoints be fired, yet he has no problem using rabid homophobes to headline his campaign. The hypocrisy is astounding, and the blatant put-down to the LGBT community is hurtful and insulting.

[Bluebear]

7. You Clinton bots are just posting these hurtful articles....oh.....

....never mind.

[NMMNG]

10. Have you noticed what

or rather, who, is missing from this thread?

[FredScuttle]

8. Clinton should renounce the support from bigots like that

and Obama should apologize for featuring an "ex-gay" clown to spew homophobic filth at his fundraiser.

[NMMNG]

11. They should

But sadly they've fallen prey to the RW notion that sucking up to scum like that is the only way to win.

[mondo joe]

9. If you're gay, politcs is like shopping at the Defective Products store: none of your

options is ideal, or even satisfactory.

[NMMNG]

12. Just sit in the back of the bus and wait your turn

Whenever that may be. :shrug:

[sniffa]

13. Let's not forget this guy

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=hillary+clinton+eugene+rivers&btnG=Google+Search

and ooh, there's a saLon articLe i have to read.

[NMMNG]

16. I'm sure he's just following his "deeply held religious beliefs"

:eyes:

[Solon]

14. Obama's offense is pretty bad, and Hillary's is almost as bad, no excuses for either of them. n/t

[terrya]

15. Disgusting

These haters need to be relegated to the fringes of American politics. It's sickening to watch any candidate pander to them. Particularly Democratic canidates. Particularly Democratic candidates who profess to support GLBT equality. But of course 3 candidates don't fully support our rights, do they?

We GLBT folk are lured by promises of equality from candidates at a Presidential forum, but are then slapped in the face when those candidates cuddle up to these hatemongering creeps. But of course we're expected to contribute financially to their campaigns and to support them. How many people would put up with treatment like that?

[NMMNG]

17. Good question

We GLBT folk are lured by promises of equality from candidates at a Presidential forum, but are then slapped in the face when those candidates cuddle up to these hatemongering creeps. But of course we're expected to contribute financially to their campaigns and to support them. How many people would put up with treatment like that?

Nobody would, yet everybody expects us to. It's disgusting and inhumane.

[sniffa]

18. no more

no votes, no money.

[JackBeck]

19. And to be told by fellow Democrats

in a rather condescending way, that you're going to vote for a Democrat anyway, so quit your bitching, makes it even more inhumane.

I find it rather an ironic payback to a minority group that votes for a Democratic candidate more than any other minority group.

[sniffa]

20. didn't you hear the Latest?

we're just seLf-Loathing.

[sniffa]

21. kick because there are so many peopLe missing this thread

where are the obama fetishists cLaiming we never go after hiLLary? :shrug:

[terrya]

22. This is a very good thread.

I'd like to hear what others have to say.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. There Is A Difference

They both are wrong but one is more wrong than the other...There is a difference between being endorsed by this homophobic minister or that homophobic minister and giving a homophobic minister a microphone at a prominent event in your campaign after you were specifically asked by human rights groups not to...

Different punishments for different offenses...That's why if you steal a radio from Wal-Mart you'll probably get probation but if you steal $1,000,000.00 from Chase Manhattan you're going to the hokey for a long , long time...

[CyberPieHole]

24. If Clinton offers a stage/microphone/forum to a bigot in which to spew hate....

...be it a homophobe or racist, I will get on her case. I understand that some bigots and homophobes may donate money to a Democrat and vote for them. However, supplying them with an audience is another thing altogether. If Obama brings together Ted Nugent/NRA and PETA, then I'll see the "wisdom" of his decision to reach out and broaden his "tent". Until then, I cannot support Obama's campaign.

[sniffa]

25. sorry she gets no pass

she is no friend of the GLBT community.

[CyberPieHole]

26. Then vote for Kucinich...

Dennis is a friend of the GLBT community. I like him...though I don't think he will win the nomination. Still, nomination aside, he appears to be a good and honorable man and the country would be a far better place if he was in the Oval Office.

[sniffa]

27. i pLan on it

thanks for the bLessing. :hi:

[CyberPieHole]

32. I may join you in your support for Kucinich...

for, although, I am leaning toward Biden, I've yet to make my final decision. Kucinich has so much to offer and he deserves our support (and votes) if we ever want to have some real change in government.

I love reading your posts, by the way, sniffa. You appear to be one of the nicer posters on DU.:hi:

[sniffa]

33. i'm gLad you're Looking at other candidates

i want to not Like biden, but i've been impressed with him. i stiLL hoLd a few grudges against him, but he's better than the top 3.

i hope you aLso give dodd a Look.

oh, and :blush:
jeez, i swear you're in the minority. i feeL Like a pariah LateLy. :P

[mondo joe]

28. For gays the political arena is like a discount irregulars bin. I don't expect a great

fit. I'm just looking for the best I can get given the circumstance.

[ozone_man]

30. Faith politics is the problem.

Obama, Clinton and Edwards are waging faith politics to lure in the evangelical vote, instead of sticking to secular issues as they should. I don't think any of them are anti-gay. They are probably all in favor of civil unions. It's a by product of faith politics that the pandering to evangelicals ultimately includes some who have bigoted views derived from religion from reading the Bible too literally.

So, my problem with Obama or Clinton is not that they are anti-gay. I don't believe that they are. But they do need to stick to secular issues. I think it's reasonable to expect Obama to have let this performer go after finding about his anti-gay positions though.

Atheists get the same treatment. We're expected to vote lock-step with the Democratic party regardless of the exclusion we feel from all the God speak to secure the evangelical vote. So, when that happens, we call them on it.

But this is similar to the treatment that the left wing gets from the corporate candidates. They are expected to vote for everyone to the left of Joe Lieberman.

The reason for all this is the inherent flaw of the two party system. It focuses debate on the center, and so is always compromising much of the Party electorate. And this is not right. Democrats should be Democrats. When they run as Republican emulators, they don't represent the base, and also run the risk of being seen as hypocrites, of losing out to the "real" religious candidate or the "real" anti-terror candidate. That's a slippery slope and Republicans know it a lot better than Democrats. Play to our strengths, the secular issues, which are also consistent with supporting the founding principle of separation of church and state. Take the high side.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Strange irony, isn't it, that we non-believers are greater in numbers than many other minorities yet we don't have the clout in the Democratic Party to demand that the frontrunners stop embracing theists.

[NMMNG]

52. They do support "Civil Unions"

And that's because of their pandering to the evangelicals and to the religious in general. If it weren't for religious bigotry there would be no reason to fear attempts to pass marriage for gay people. But even in this nation where Church and State are allegedly separate the religious have to be mollified, so civil rights for LGBT people get pushed to the side. Again.

[Bluebear]

34. But Hillary did it too....oh....

never mind.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. Excuse me but Hillary did do it too

Something you refuse to acknowledge. I completely agree that Obama should have pulled McClurkin from the lineup of the concert. But Clinton should also reject the endorsements and financial support of bigots too. It's not that hard for her to return some contributions and take an endorsement off her website. It's surely easier than pulling a performer off of a planned concert, since y'all want to make the "but he's GETTING ON STAGE for him!" comparison all the time. All she has to do is return a few thousand bucks and take an endorsement off her website. How hard is that? Why won't she do it?

If you don't see the similarities then you have no credibility. Bigotry is bigotry and it doesn't matter what the bigot is doing for a particular candidate. Once you find out the person is a bigot, you should extricate yourself from him/her. If you don't, you're pandering to bigotry. Period. Obama did it, no question about it. But so did Clinton. So don't tell me "It's not the same!" It is.

[Bluebear]

48. LMAO!!That's what this thread is ABOUT!!!! Does this thread not count?

Or only illinoisprogressive's? I never said it didn't count or that it wan't the same, and I am NOT a Clinton supporter, did my sigline go over your head? Damn!

[Sapphocrat]

49. Here's something you refuse to acknowledge.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3678121

[sniffa]

35. hey, i found the missing DUers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3681834

transparent Like gLass.

[undercoverduer]

36. I'm noticing a pattern. . .

. . .what do you want to bet those who commented on the newer one but didn't comment on the older one have the OP and others on ignore? I can't imagine that they would have stayed away from that earlier thread.

[NMMNG]

50. This got plenty of views

And they've responded to me every other time I posted something about Obama to rant about how "hypocritical" I am. There's no reason they couldn't have joined this party. :shrug:

[sniffa]

37. what the fuck's going on with DU LateLy?

this thread was just kicked to the top.. yet when i cLick on it, it shows me as the Last response about 12 minutes ago.

this isn't the first thread i've noticed this on; there's a few threads showing 8-16 more posts on the front than what's inside... and yes thre's no deLeted posts.

[JackBeck]

39. So it's not just me, then.

n/t

[sniffa]

41. not just you, no

and kick for the audacity of hope.

[sniffa]

38. kick

i just can't stand that other thread being on top, started 28 hours Later... and having aLL the obama sycophants cLuttering that one.

[Sapphocrat]

40. Kick, kick, kick...

Kick-fuckety-KICK.

[sniffa]

42. i'LL race ya

:kick:

oh, and fuck them.

[sniffa]

43. Look's Like i'm stiLL winning

:woohoo:

[Sapphocrat]

45. Day-umn!

You're just too quick for me!

Aye, but you're younger, that must be it! :P

[sniffa]

51. you Look great for 38

:kick:

[FredScuttle]

44. I want in

kick for Rev. Donnie's "Ex-Gay Clown Tour"

:kick: