Why did Hillary decide to go after Obama today? Two options.

[Colobo]

A) Smells blood and feels this is the time to destroy Obama's candidacy once and for all.

or


B) Contrary to what the national polls indicate, her campaign still feels Obama is a true threat to her aspirations and has decided to confront him to see if she can keep him at bay.

I think this is Obama's opportunity, however, to make his case. I think the war between them is officially on, and this is the moment he has been waiting for: it's time to put everything on the line and make it a two-person battle.

[IndianaJones]

1. he is overmatched. nt.

[saracat]

2. I think not. She is threatened by all the other credible candidates.

[IndianaJones]

4. the nice thing about this discussion is that we shall see soon. nt.

[durrrty libby]

10. You nailed it

[rinsd]

3. A & B.

Obama is the only threat to Hillary's nomination, he has the money & star power to run with her. While I don't think the Clinton campaign thinks this email or her stepping up attacks on Obama will destroy his candidacy once and for all there certainly seems to be a timing to it with Obama getting roasted by the netroots.

[Colobo]

5. I know you won't agree with my following statement, but

Let's hope he comes out victorious. :)

[durrrty libby]

29. Sorry kid...Obama is too green and therefore too dangerous for my country

[saracat]

37. Well Hillary is too much of a corporatist and dangerous for "my " country!

And adressing any poster as "kid" is unbearbly condecending and contemptuous.But perhaps some are too "green" to be aware of how rude that is?

[durrrty libby]

40. Aww mummy dearest...So very special

[WCGreen]

15. Then how come he keeps falling further and further behind....

He has been out there for almost a year now, raising money and criss crossing the country...

And he hasn't really changed his position in the polls one bit...

[rinsd]

16. Well ya got me there.

I still consider Obama Hillary's biggest threat but I can't argue that he has shown little movement in national or state polls.

[WCGreen]

23. He just seemed to peak, then sort of fizzle...

We shall see...

[rinsd]

26. I think his campaign lacks a specific theme to illustrate his broad theme of change

He should center his campaign around his efforts for more transparency in government dealings.

Not its not all that sexy but alot of people forget that corruption is a large concern of voters.

[WCGreen]

35. I understand he is a self-proclaimed agent of change...

He doesn't seem to get beyond the platitudes...

I know he has released position papers and what not...

But he needs to get action in his message...

[AtomicKitten]

6. She knows her Kyl-Lieberman "yes" vote was a mistake.

That on top of her IWR vote is surreal.

And now she's going after the ONLY candidate that can take her down.

I don't give a rat's ass why Obama didn't vote on Kyl-Lieberman; he sure as hell didn't voted yes on it like, well, you know.

[LittleClarkie]

9. But why did he co-sponsor a bill with similar wording

If I'm understanding correctly, that is.

S. 970: Iran Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007, March.

(8) The Secretary of State should designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1189) and the Secretary of the Treasury should place the Iranian Revolutionary Guards on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists under Executive Order 13224 (66 Fed. Reg. 186; relating to blocking property and prohibiting transactions with persons who commit, threaten to commit, or support terrorism).

[AtomicKitten]

11. I understand that is offered as a counter-argument.

But, quite frankly, I don't get the comparison.

That bill you speak of had some 68 cosponsors (including both Hillary and Obama) but it never made it out of committee. I have seen numerous posts by people claiming he voted yes on it when a vote NEVER happened.

The IWR has always struck in my craw, and it was almost surreal that any of the Democratic candidates votes "yes" on Kyl-Lieberman. It was as if she didn't learn the first time the dog bit her. We hear the same rhetoric about "sanctions" blah, blah, blah, and this bit of nasty legislation parallels the Iraq Liberation Act in the 1990s labeling them terrorists.

In fact, scholars are thinking Bunnypants may try to argue that attacking Iran is already an option for him without congressional approval because he was able to get Iran's Guard labeled a terrorist organization and they will allege that terrorist organization is engaging in some naughty intervention in Iraq.

Jimmy Carter agrees with this assessment.

Hillary has the distinction of being the only Democratic candidate to actually vote "yes" on it. And I think she knows now that was a mistake.

[Colobo]

12. Obama needs to jump on this.

[AtomicKitten]

14. I think he will and pundits are breathlessly waiting for him to do so.

[BeyondGeography]

18. I wouldn't be so sure about the "mistake" part

I think she'd still rather be perceived as hawkish almost to a fault (primarily for gender-based reasons...a woman must be seen as tough if she is to get elected) if/when she gets to the GE. The fact that 3/4 of the Senate voted for IWR gives her cover as well. The only candidates in both parties who actually voted against IWR are Kucinich and Paul. She may well think this vote works for her in the end. How else can you explain Kyl-Lieberman?

Plus, there was this little bit of truth telling from one of her supporters from the military:

== "I don't oppose the war. I think it's being very badly led by the civilian leadership." And, she added, "I have not ever heard (Clinton) say, 'I oppose the war.'==

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Retired+general+backs+Clinton+on+Iraq&articleId=496162bb-d0bb-4aeb-8796-5e034699c0c3

[AtomicKitten]

22. Mistake in the primary ..... she is definitely running the general.

The problem for her is that the Democratic base is paying attention this time.

[BeyondGeography]

25. Agreed...but the primary was always meant to be a mere formality

;)

[AtomicKitten]

31. There used to be a distinct strategy.

There used to be an age-old strategic philosophy of swinging left in the primary and to the center in the general.

Hillary turned right at the center on issues of war. I realize she is a girl and needs to prove her mettle, but, the ramifications of this vote are something that cannot be ignored.

[BeyondGeography]

33. Shows you how competitive she thought the primary would be

At any rate, we agree; giving candidates who authorized the worst foreign policy blunder in our history a pass is tantamount to removing all accountability from our party and our political system.

[AtomicKitten]

34. cheers (nt)

[LittleClarkie]

38. I think she's forgotten that she has to get through the primary

or she's assuming she'll win the primary.

She forgets who tends to vote in the primaries though, the more liberal branch, I mean.

At least that was my impression.

And the left side of the party is none to fond of her.

[AtomicKitten]

39. Exactly.

I think some people have had just about enough of the drums of war.

Hey, again, good luck on your candidate shopping. Believe me I understand it's tough when your candidate of choice isn't running. :)

My new bumper sticker: Honk if you voted for Bush so I can give you the finger. You like?

[LittleClarkie]

19. I understand that it never came to a vote. But wouldn't becoming a cosponsor indicate agreement

with this bill that never made it out of committee, a bill that has a very similar wording to Kyl-Lieberman? Does Obama agree or doesn't he that the the Iranian Guard is being used as a terrorist organization, regardless of whether or not he voted for anything.

It just seems like this it hanging by a technicality. He technically didn't vote for Kyl-Lieberman. What I'm more interested in is what the man believes to be true.

And if he agrees in essence with Kyl-Lieberman, then it's rather out of bounds for him to beat Hillary over the head with her vote, esp. when he didn't have the maguppies to vote at all.

This is perturbing me greatly. I was leaning Obama. So all I'm really trying to do is understand. If I can get a satisfactory answer, I might still be leaning Obama. We shall see.

[rinsd]

24. Some info here though its mostly the campaigns sniping at each other

Obama's camp - http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/25/431792.aspx

Clinton's camp - http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/clinton-e-mail-hits-obama-on-iran/#more-2840

[AtomicKitten]

28. That bill was early this year when the IAEA was still

scrounging around there. The report from the anti-nuclear proliferation body quieted the anxiety, but the administration kept banging the war drums. Still Obama was paying attention, and this administration's intentions have since becoming glaringly apparent.

The fact that he did not vote on Kyl-Lieberman is not a technicality; he released a strong statement opposing it. I do believe there was some confusion about when it was actually going to be brought to a vote, though, for whatever that's worth. He also issued a statement stating this bill had the votes, and that there are times to rush back for a close vote and this vote wasn't anywhere in the ballpark of close (76-22).

Let's not forget these players are running for president and are expected to speak on all issues.

Good luck on candidate shopping. I strongly believe, my #1 issue, is that Democrats must stop buying into the GOP war scheme machine.

[LittleClarkie]

36. Thank you for your reply

You give me something to think about. And I do have to remember context plays a part. These things don't happen in a vacuum.

[DemFemme]

13. A terrorism expert on Hardball explained it like this

He said that back in March, Iran's capabilities seemed much more of a threat than they do now. What he said was the
Kyl-Lieberman bill was unnecessary at this time. Also, I may be mistaken but I believe this bill never even made it to
a vote.

[BeyondGeography]

7. or C) Criticisms of her Kyl-Lieberman vote are either

1. getting under her thin skin, or (more likely)

2. hurting her according to her campaign's own polls

[Colobo]

8. Whatever the reason, I'm loving it.

[Lucinda]

17. She is responding to an attack. Which she should be doing.

Not sure why anyone is trying to read anything more into this...I would expect all the other candidates to do the same.

[Colobo]

20. Hillary is the front-runner

No need to go after Obama, who is quite behind her in the polls...

[Lucinda]

21. Any attack should be countered.

If Kerry had realized that, it might be a different world today.

[cuke]

30. You couldn't be more wrong

Just as it is in war, you don't win by waiting around to be attacked. The winner is the one who choses the battlefield and schedules the clash. In politics, you win by defining the debate on terms that favor you and make your opponent go on defense. The best offense is a good offense

[zulchzulu]

27. B) with a little of the "uh oh" on the side

Obama's ground game in Iowa is going to smack Team Clinton hard and the "inevitability" meme that we witness here on DU and elsewhere will pop the Clinton hot air balloon so badly that the MSM will pile on her and the rest, as they say, is history.

[Bitwit1234]

32. HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA AHAHAHAHAH

[SaveElmer]

41. She was attacked...she attacked back...

Simple as that...

Plus the Obama criticisms are so non-credible given Obama's record on the issue, it was just too easy to pass up...