Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Some thoughts on this Obama/McClurkin mess.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:15 PM
Original message
Some thoughts on this Obama/McClurkin mess.
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 09:20 PM by Chovexani
I'm going to make a really personal post, in the hopes that it'll help some of you understand some of the things lurking beneath the surface of this debacle.

This situation really brings out a lot of the issues I have on a personal level, about juggling identities and being caught in the middle. As a few of you might know, I'm a lesbian-identified bisexual. I'm also a young black woman. As with others like me, I have a foot in two very different worlds. I'm often called to be the "ambassador", so to speak, whether it's calling out black peers on their homophobia, or calling out GLBT peers on their racism. I didn't ask for it. I wish, sometimes, that I could just live my life and not have to deal with this stuff. That I could just, well, be me. It seems terribly unfair that others can just walk through life, not having to think about these things, not constantly being reminded that you're different and fighting for your right to exist. But, that's life.

What hurts me the most about what Obama did--first planning to share a stage with closet queen McClurkin to begin with, and then inviting a *white* gay pastor to come lecture to folks about homophobia--is that it's showing just how invisible we are as queers of color. It's perpetuating the hurtful myth among many in the black religious community that homo/bisexuality is a white man's luxury, that it is just white hedonism. This is where the Religious Reich has had great success making in-roads in the black socially conservative religious community, by claiming that these rich white men are sullying the memory of the civil rights movement by trying to capitalize it to promote an unbiblical lifestyle. It's absolute horseshit--you know it, I know it, and lots and lots of black folks know it--but it's working to a degree. I see it in the disgust in my otherwise progressive (but very born again) mom's eyes when a story about marriage equality is on the news. I see it and I'm reminded that I can't come out to her, ever, that I will die silent the way my middle-aged, bachelor uncle did when he died of a "collapsed lung". I'm reminded that my lover will always be my roommate, the way his was, even when he was dying in a VA hospital. I remember when he was sick and our church, the church my mother volunteered at and was on the building fund committee of and gave her heart, soul, and wallet to, turned its collective back on her and how the Gay Men's Health Crisis gave us free counseling because we couldn't afford it. I don't know how she compartmentalizes these things. I don't know how she can forget that patch we made for her gay brother on the AIDS quilt. Maybe she bought the lies of the megachurch she goes to now, because it was easier than facing reality and working through the contradictions in her head.

So many have forgotten the (in many ways more progressive) freethinking ideas of the Harlem Renaissance, the Langston Hugheses and Alice Walkers, the Audre Lordes and Bayard Rustins. If GLBT folks are invisible in the larger context of history, black GLBT folks are doubly so. The few images we see of gays in the mainstream media are always affluent whites, with a very few exceptions. Our stories just aren't told. Except sensationalist talk shows about brothers on the DL, because the only way to be queer and black is to be a self-hating liar full of shame. Why is it that you never see proud, openly GLBT people on these shows?

On a personal level, there's always this expectation that you have to choose sides. Among blacks this means towing the line and supporting the brother/sister no matter what kind of hate they might espouse (like the Isaiah Washington controversy). But among the larger GLBT community, this means always feeling your race first and foremost. No one questions why some feel the need for Black Pride events. No one questions why, in some gayborhoods, you can count the numbers of black men in the bars on one hand. Or why the only mocha in the local lesbian coffeehouse is on the menu. In fact, if you point this out, you're sort of made to feel rather shitty, like you should be grateful there's a GLBT community at all, even if you're not really made to feel part of it by some members.

And now everything is being dredged up and put in the spotlight. All the hurt, all the anger, all the feelings of isolation and marginalization...all the slaps in the face...it's all coming to the surface. Even the discussions on the issue, on DU and elsewhere, are about pandering to religious homophobes for votes vs. what really constitutes inclusivity. I think some (read: SOME, not all) whites, whether they agree with Obama's actions or not, are missing the deeper issues at play here, but I can't fault them for that. This is a lot more complicated. But that's because because the black GLBT community has been silenced too long. It's because Keith Boykin and Irene Munroe can't do this by themselves. We need to be out and raising hell.

I'm not a peacemaker or a bridge builder. I'm a chaotic neutral screamer and I'm full of nearly 27 years of rage at this system and at this degenerate, planet-raping species I was thrust into. I flame people and post cat macros mocking people and am generally a snarky, cynical malcontent. I am not at all suited to educate anyone on anything; I don't have the patience or the grace.

All I can do is tell you what it's like to be me, for a little while, and hope the honesty helps someone understand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you so much for this post.
I value your perspective so much, and I value *you* as my sister. :hug:

You're magnificent. :loveya:

And don't you ever stop speaking truth to power, please. :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. That means a lot.
:hugs:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm glad you shared your story...
To be honest, I don't know what to say, I can think of many different words, but everything seems inadequate, I cannot understand, fully, how much you have gone through, I was only given a taste, and it horrified me. I guess, as a straight white guy, all I can do is try, in my own small way, to change the world, to try to make it so that you would feel welcome, that you would feel acceptance, I have no more words.

Here's the "taste" I'm referring to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You deserve a hug, unfortunately, this is all I can offer, :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Oh, sweetie.
That was a heartbreaking post. :hug:

Things like that just convince me the Gods put us all here for a reason, even if we don't know what it is most of the time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Thank you.
I too believe the Gods put us here for a reason, and I find myself blessed to have found my purpose.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for this heartfelt post. Much to learn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yahoo
thank you, an incredible post. You may not be a peacemaker, but you have an absolutely beautiful soul.

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. I appreciate your post no end
very logical. I hope folks realize we can reach out to everyone, and maybe get them to show up and vote for us, and get things a bit farther down the good path. Together. Without all the horse shit.
That would be cool.

Baby steps.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. i heart you and K&R
even though you're a white, straight hiLLary supporter.

yes, i've met you, but i'LL make wiLd accusations anyway.

:loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Bad sniffa!
No biscuit! :spank:

(btw, Rove says your Rolls Royce is on its way :P)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. good read!
:hug: :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. Jonny babe!
That means a lot! :hug:

(How've you been? Got any cool Tripp pants lately? :hi:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. i have been fine, thanks.
plenty of baggie ass tripp shorts here, yes. too bad you still didn't live in NYC. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. thanks for this
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 09:40 PM by AtomicKitten
I am hopelessly straight and white, and have no personal frame of reference.

Even living and working here in San Francisco with all kinds of wonderful people, I know I can't ever really understand. But I always appreciate being allowed a view into everyone's world. Thanks for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Nothing woeful about being straight and white
and you can always come to us for music and fashion advice. :hug:


<<ducking>>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Not me, I dance like this guy
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 09:54 PM by Chovexani


That's why I'm a Goth...dancing involves a lot of stomping and not spilling your drink on people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. lol
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freestyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. You dance like Alfonso Ribiero, The Tap Dance Kid? Damn!
I know that's not what you meant, but my last post was so damned serious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Haha
I like to crack wise when it gets too serious. I think it's a coping mechanism, at least for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I always do, Sweetie, in my real life.
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 10:13 PM by AtomicKitten
That's why this is so tough for me.

On edit, I changed the woefully to hopelessly because it sounds slightly less lame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for the thoughtful post.
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you for that very introspective, honest post. You have more grace than you know.
I have been an Obama supporter since I first heard him speak in 2004. I find him to be extremely intelligent, kind, concerned,
capable and inspiring. However, I am more than a little disturbed by this Donny McGerkin (sic) business.

I have read in several places that, by and large, the African-American community is somewhat homophobic. Do you
find this to be true? If so, then it makes me even angrier that Obama would find it acceptable for this "formerly gay" singer
to appear with him, since I would consider it part of Obama's responsibility to educate people and help get rid of
that destructive prevailing attitude. Being something of a cynic about all things political, I would not want to think that his looking
the other way could in any way be construed as his fostering or condoning a homophobic mindset.

Are you still for Obama, or is this issue significant enough in your mind to make you consider voting for someone else?
I'd really appreciate your input.

Many thanks.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Thing is, I'm a Kucinich supporter
That's because I really feel the primaries are where we get to vote our hearts, and DK represents everything I hold dear as a lifelong Democrat. That's not to say I hate Hillary, Obama or even Edwards...I will support whoever gets the nomination and work for a Democratic victory.

Are black people somewhat homophobic? Of course, every community is. The homophobia might have different roots (patriarchy and sexism take different flavors in the black community than they do in other ethnic communities but they're there nonetheless, and therefore there is homophobia). I also question why there is this tendency in the mainstream media and among the progressive blogosphere to castigate black homophobia as somehow "worse" than white homophobia, (usually accompanied with black folk "ought to know better".). There's an undercurrent of racism there that troubles me. It reminds me too much of the all-too-familiar sense that black folks are under an electron microscope, that we always have to be that much better at something, that much more perfect, or else we're miserable failures and proving racists correct. I have to wonder if this issue would get as much play in the press if Clinton or Edwards made the same mistake. I don't think it's somehow Obama's "responsibility" as a presidential candidate to take this on, but I think it's his responsibility as someone who has continually espoused an ideal of bringing people together to be a little more in touch with what the community has to say on this.

People familiar with the black gospel scene know that it's GAF (gay as fuck) and there's hypocrisy there that makes the recent GOP scandals look tame. This is the kind of thing Obama could have avoided had he had more than the HRC crowd advising him. Most DUers didn't know who the hell Donnie McClurkin is before this, and they're not even mentioning Mary Mary and Hezekiah Walker, who are equally hateful towards the GLBT community (Mary Mary compared GLBT people to murderers and prostitutes in a recent interview). My cousin is gay, sang in Hezekiah's choir and travels in these circles and I could tell you some stories. This kind of thing is why I walked away from the church and am a Pagan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. The weird thing is that deep down, Dennis is still a Catholic altar boy
He doesn't actually know much about any of the various LGBT communities--all he does is measure the issue against his moral standards and arrive at the conclusion that everybody, no exceptions, deserves equal rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'd like to think that your heartfelt writing would convince Obama himself to change his mind
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 09:52 PM by Heaven and Earth
if he read it. Your passion almost tears a positive response out of a person. You, and dogboy, and everyone else who has been inspired to pour out their inner thoughts and feelings in response to the insensitivity on display have done yourselves proud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Agreed
and the issue is far deeper than one campaign.

It's so frustrating not being able to fix this and make people's lives better.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. Jesus H. Christ.
What a brilliant commentary.

It should be published in every paper in America, and you should be paid handsomely for it.

Talk about cutting to the chase! Required reading.

K/R. Big R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you so much,
personal stories seem to get to the heart of things better than anything else. Peacemakers aren't necessarily peaceful, and they never compromise with evil.

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. What a great post...
if I could recommend it I would. So I will recommend it in SPIRIT! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. I K&R in your name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Why, thank-you!
How sweet of you. It really was a great post! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Chovexani and Solon: your posts together made me weep for the amount of love & courage that still...
...exists in this world, and that you both live in your own ways.

C -- I especially want to thank you for explaining the Obama controversy, which I have deliberately not followed. I want to believe the best of him, knowing that like all politicians he is only human and knowing also that most candidate controversies are tempests in a teapot.

It seems, though, that Barack Obama needs a dose of education. How I wish there were some way to ensure that he could read both your post and Solon's. How deeply it might pierce his heart.

:hug: to you both, and thank you for what you have done and what you are doing.

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. My courage pales in comparison to Chovexani's courage....
her courage is something I don't think I can ever even compare to, this isn't a competition, just a fact. Her courage is something she displays every day from the moment she wakes up to the minute she falls asleep. Mine but lasted a moment, and I cannot even rightfully call it courage. Mine was more like instinct, a reaction.

I'll still take that hug though. And here is one for you. :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Ok, now you guys are just embarrassing me
:grouphug: :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. Ohh, don't be embarrassed about this, be embarrassed about playing D&D...
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 10:00 AM by Solon
Just Kidding!

OK, I suspected this before I looked at your profile, with the "chaotic neutral" comment in your OP. Us D&D geeks must stick together. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. LOL, busted
I'm a natural dork, I can't help myself. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. That's a good thing...
Some of the coolest people I ever met are dorks and geeks, and PROUD OF IT...now where did I put my pocket protector? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks so much for the post
I hope it opens some eyes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
32. Beautifully written...!
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 02:46 AM by bliss_eternal
...and thank you! :applause:

Seeing threads addressing "blacks" and "homophobia" I am concerned for people, like yourself--those with a foot in both worlds that are too often not considered, when such issues are addressed(and the way they are addressed)on DU.

Clearly there are other racial groups that are homophobic, based on religious teachings and traditions, but we don't hear about those very much in the media. I sometimes wonder why that is. Why we have terms like "black on black crime" and "black homophobia" coined frequently, but none for other racial groups? (...just something to ponder. ;))

Kicking and recommending (not that you need it ;) )

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BronxBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. Good Post
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 05:05 AM by BronxBoy
Always nice to hear from a person who is actually living through the consequences of of particular subject.

Thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
37. You GO, girl!!!
:applause: :loveya: :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
38. kick
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freestyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks. You wrote it more eloquently than I could have.
I have posted fairly infrequently on the Obama/McClurkin threads for the reasons you laid out. I am a Black, gay man, and I am always bothered by the invisibility and distortions of the Black GLBT community. All of the heroes you mentioned are heroes of mine as well, yet too few people know of their importance to the struggle for equal rights. GLBT people of color are almost excluded from history as GLBT people of color. We need to do all we can to make sure the truth is taught, and maintain libraries at home if that is what it takes.

I try to be a bridge builder, but it is tiring at times and other than your very closest friends, you never really know who has your back. I know that there is a segment of the white GLBT community that is primarily concerned with obtaining the benefits of white privilege rather than systemic change. I know that there are black people of all orientations who vainly seek the same. But, there are true freedom fighters out there who recognize that none are actually free until all are free. We who live in multiple worlds, and strive to be comfortable in our own skins, challenge prejudices by our very existence. We need to discuss and challenge heterosexism in communities of color and white supremacy in the GLBT community at the same time. The pressure to choose is all too real, and it is like asking someone which leg they would like to be without today. Personal integrity is far too important.

Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I hope that most people realize that the only war Donnie McClurkin is in is with himself. I don't know how that war will end, and hope he has the help he needs to come through it whole and alive. After thinking about it, I can see the benefit of introducing a Gay pastor with a congregation in Columbia, if the conversation continues after these concerts end. Opportunity often comes from crisis, and this is an opportunity to begin education and dialog that will hopefully change some minds. Black GLBT people especially need to be out, and involved in the conversation. My sig line is from Audre Lorde. It is the absolute truth. We can be silent no more, and we have to be careful who speaks for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Thank you so much.
We need voices like yours. :loveya: :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. Such a pity I can only recommend this only once
And no surprise that the usual suspects are conspicuously absent on this thread.

Amazing post! :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. LOL!
Quote:
And no surprise that the usual suspects are conspicuously absent on this thread.

:rofl:

You have such a way with words. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. I have a feeling
They're way too afraid to challenge the OP. :-)

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. . .
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. I have no idea why anyone would be afraid of me


O8)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cilla4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. Suggestion for Obama campaign
Just heard discussion of this on NPR (where it was described as a no-win situation for them: they lose if the keep McClurkin in; lose if they "fire" him). Here's a suggestion for the Obama campaign: bring in, that is invite also, someone representing the "other" perspective - an open, out, performer, for example, from the GAF community OP describes. What do you all think of this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. The problem is there really aren't any
There's very much a Don't Ask Don't Tell thing going on in gospel. Everyone from the labels to the artists knows who is gay but artists are afraid to speak out because they don't want to alienate their audience. They're afraid for their careers and sadly it's not entirely misplaced. It's a very small, insular world except for the few times there's a crossover effect (like Kirk Franklin, or Donnie to some extent).

I just wish that the many artists who DON'T espouse homophobic views in a misguided attempt at self-preservation could have been invited. Donnie is a big name, to be sure and that's probably why he was invited, but there are equally big names that don't carry the kind of baggage he does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. And now the "ex-gay" contingient
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 07:36 AM by Karenina
has got in on the act! :rofl:

http://www.earnedmedia.org/pfox1023.htm :rofl:

I don't know about you Cho but "Reverend"+"ex-gay" says bleach + ammonia to me. ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. LOL LOL
Bleach and ammonia for real. P-Fox is the sorriest bunch of mofos.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
49. I see you. eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
51. Friday night kick!
:kick:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Oct 22nd 2019, 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC