To everyone who whines because Obama talks about Christianity, read this:

[geek tragedy]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6314.html

When Fox News aired a report in January claiming that Sen. Barack Obama had been educated at a radical Muslim madrassa, his campaign beat the story back — hard — with the candidate himself going on television to call it “ludicrous” and a “smear.”

And his aggressive defense worked, or so it seemed at the time: The notion that Obama has secret Muslim roots faded from the mainstream media, and even from most conservative blogs and magazines.

But rather than vanish, the whispered smear campaign appears to have gone underground, and in its purest form: Obama himself, according to a pair of widely circulated anonymous e-mails, is a Muslim.

“Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background,” warns an e-mail titled “Who Is Barack Obama,” that was circulating in South Carolina political circles this summer and sent to Politico by a South Carolina Democrat.

This is what real bigotry and discrimination looks like. And this is why he's forced to talk about his Christian faith.

So, stop your goddamn whining about it.

[DavidDvorkin]

1. Nope, sorry, that doesn't work

What America needs is for all the Democratic candidates to repeat endlessly, not that they're Christian as opposed to something else, but that their religion is irrelevant and that anyone who makes it an issue is un-American and is opposed to what the Founding Fathers were working for.

[geek tragedy]

2. Easy for you to say.

How many millions of emails have been sent claiming you attended a madrassa?

[beam me up scottie]

16. Actually, it's patriotic of him to say.

Isn't it unchristian of you and Obama to pimp god for votes?

[geek tragedy]

21. I'm an atheist, and your comments

are offensive and disgusting and stink of the same intolerance that one gets from the X-Tian right.

[beam me up scottie]

22. So you say. Yet you're blind to the intolerance exhibited in your own posts.

This is what real bigotry and discrimination looks like. And this is why he's forced to talk about his Christian faith.

Boo hoo.

Somebody said Obama wasn't a christian and now he has to prove he's better than non-christians !!!11!

OHMYGAWD! The next thing you know, they'll be calling him an atheist!!!11!


Cry me a river. :eyes:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. A Republican president - which is in effect what you're advocating - is the last thing America needs

It would be wonderful if the Democrats could do what you're saying and still win. However, in practice they might just as well hang big signs saying "don't vote for me" around their necks and have done with it.

The Democrats need to pick someone who can attract the votes of those who will only vote for someone they consider a "good Christian", or they won't win.

[MADem]

3. Who whines? Fox News? and POLITICO, the right wing website?

I haven't seen ANY whining here about this issue, except in this thread....

[geek tragedy]

6. Plenty of militant atheists and agnostics

who can's stand it when candidates talk about religion.

See it on display in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3589009

[MADem]

8. That was a pretty interesting discussion, actually.

You shouldn't take things so personally, though. Nor should others debating the issue of religion in politics. That advocacy-anger kind of gets in the way of the actual issues, which are discussion-worthy.

Religion IS a third rail. Either because people have a particular one, don't have one, or are spiritual but don't wanna hear it, or just don't wanna hear it.

Ya can't make it go away by ignoring it. It's better to discuss it civilly than get all snarky though--that's the hard part.

I do think Obama brings it up because he IS looking towards the general election. He'd like to, if he wins and advances, pick off some of those disgusted fundies, and he needs to seed now to sow later. There's nothing wrong with planning ahead. It's a strategy. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. We'll see.

[Goblinmonger]

43. Just so you know, the correct term

is "militant secular progressive." O'Reilly coined it in his book and he would appreciate if you spread the meme correctly. You did get the memo, didn't you?

[beaconess]

7. I've seen plenty of whining about it on DU

[PurityOfEssence]

4. And if not, whatta ya gonna do? Pound me after recess? Step on my bike?

Go yell at your dogs; this is most unseemly behavior for someone who claims to be part of a pluralist party.

If you had simply stated that he's had to go a bit overboard to forestall an ugly smear, that would be one thing, but to scold us as "whiners" (a traditional dismissal from conservatives) is juvenile bullying. It also serves to remind us that religion is INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE: it's based on certainty, unswerving allegiance to a belief, dislike of different beliefs and in the case of most major religions, a nauseating focus on the self. Why are so many deeply conservative people also religious? It's because religion is inherently conservative.

Many leftists of belief are so because their focus on religion is for the social teachings, which is focusing on others. Not too surprisingly, these believers are some of the nicest and most tolerant of others.

Some of us don't like religion being shoved into the political forum, and we have the right to say so. This kind of abuse reminds us that far too many of faith may talk a nice game about tolerance, but it's condescension at best and snotty, arrogant bigotry at its worst.

You make a good point about the whispering campaign, and that takes some of the sting out of his actions for me, but the theocratic, sanctimonious intolerance just stinks.

[Submariner]

5. Don't whine about, scream against it

Religion is nothing but a world of make believe and imaginary sky-people. Christianity, Islam, and all the rest of those hokey religions are nothing but utter bullshit, and have no place in politics or a world based on reality. I shudder when these pols say god bless this and that. It makes me cringe that an otherwise intelligent person would even think that some divine intervention of a sky-ghost is the answer to mans problems.

If one wants to dwell in the world of myths and fairy tales, do it in the privacy of your own home, but don't foist that shit on those of us who understand religion is nothing but a diaper load that causes nothing but pain and suffering by the likes of Bush and his ilk.

[beaconess]

9. Your screed is just as offensive to me as a Christian as someone's profession of faith is obviously

to you.

I would never attack your lack of belief in God the way you so viciously attack the faith of those of us who do believe in a higher power.

Before you bitch and whine about how offended you are about any discussion of faith in the public square, you might want to check your own self.

[bobbolink]

10. Thank you.

Peace is such a simple concept.

[Submariner]

12. Nuns crammed that make believe stuff down my throat for 12 years

and I have had my fill of it. Like I said, practice it at home and keep it out of the public venue. I find religion to be the root of so much evil it defies description.

There is not a scrap of evidence of a higher power, and I find it scary that the human race still buys into the god tripe. I checked myself and find more inner peace as a non-believer than I ever did when I was originally brain washed by the diocese.

[beaconess]

13. I empathize with your obvious pain and frustration

But do you see that you're doing exactly what you're criticizing others for? In fact, you're going much farther than most of them are. You are so angry about people talking about something they believe in that you respond by screaming your version of the truth at the rest of us and then go even further by calling us idiots for not seeing it the way you do - something that Obama or any of the other candidates have not come even close to doing.

You have every right to feel how you feel. But you seem to think that no one else has the right to their view - or at least they have no right to discuss it in public, while you apparently believe it's just fine for you to shove your atheism down our throats.

I am a Christian and proud of it. But I also recognize that I am not infallible and that, while I believe in the "God tripe," as you so sanctimoniously call it, I know that I could be wrong. It's a shame that you don't have similar humility in your own appoach to life since, just like me, you have no way of being 100% certain that your take on the existence of a higher power is correct.

I would think that if you had found the inner peace you claim to have, you would not get so worked up over other people expressing a different viewpoint. If you're so right and we're so wrong, why not just shrug and go on about your business? Frankly, you don't sound like a very at peace person at all.

[More Than A Feeling]

18. You want other people to think well of your faith.

What would you do if they didn't? Would that make you cling to it more tightly, or would abandon it if it became socially neutral or unacceptable?

[beam me up scottie]

17. How dare you have an unkind opinion of religion?

And to actually post it on a liberal web site, the nerve of some people...

Did you forget this is a christian nation?

Of course people will now (purposely) misinterpret your criticism of religion as intolerant christian "bashing", claim you're whining and call you a "militant" atheist with anger management issues...

My kind of guy. :applause:

[incapsulated]

24. Of course it is "bashing"

No less than saying all Muslims are a bunch of extremist loons.

I always find it amusing when a group bitches and moans about how oppressed they are and openly fantasize about how they would make everyone else shut up if they had the ability.

It's a big world with a lot of different opinions. You can publicly insult and ridicule those beliefs all you like, if you like the idea of being viewed as an asshole, of course.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Stop it! I'm crying over here.

No, really.

Poor oppressed christian Americans.

How awful it would be if they were forced to keep their religion out of government. :nopity:

Good thing the op started a thread just to school us heathens on what "real bigotry and discrimination looks like".

I always find it amusing when a group bitches and moans about how oppressed they are and openly fantasize about how they would make everyone else shut up if they had the ability.

Wow, you really got the op pegged, he bitched and moaned about us and then told us to shut up:

To everyone who whines because Obama talks about Christianity, read this:


...This is what real bigotry and discrimination looks like. And this is why he's forced to talk about his Christian faith.

So, stop your goddamn whining about it.

Nice job! :thumbsup:

[incapsulated]

28. Not the same thing.

Snippy, yes. But not bitching about Obama speaking about his Christianity, specifically, is not the same as saying "no one should speak of their stupid, worthless, ethically challenged and morally bankrupt atheism around me or in public."

[beam me up scottie]

29. Really? Which post reads "no one should speak of their stupid, worthless, ethically challenged

"no one should speak of their stupid, worthless, ethically challenged and morally bankrupt (insert belief or non here) around me or in public."

I must have missed that one.

The op is the only one telling others to shut up.

[incapsulated]

30. Um, the one you were giving a high-five?

Maybe?

[beam me up scottie]

31. Telling you to not foist "that shit" on others is the same as telling you to shut up?

Hardly.

[incapsulated]

33. lol

Ok, don't foist your moronic, mindless athiest shit on me and only speak about it in private because your stupidity offends me.

Man alive, your ability to completely blind yourself to this language is unreal.

[beam me up scottie]

34. Oh, I understand the language.

Any one who claims to be an "Instrument of God" scares those of us who are still on THIS side of the fire.

Yeah, atheists are the real threat.

Preach it sista!

[incapsulated]

36. There is no point discussing this any further

I don't have much patience for fanaticism on EITHER side.

[beam me up scottie]

38. wow, so fanaticism = keeping religion out of politics?

Call me a fanatic believer in the Constitution then. :patriot:

[Goblinmonger]

46. Bad atheist. Bad. Bad. Bad

No dead baby stew for you tonight.

[beam me up scottie]

48. FINE !

Sid will just sneak me a plate later like he always does.

[Goblinmonger]

49. Damn Canadians

never did think they could be militant enough.

[incapsulated]

23. Golly, I sure want to live next door to you

So tolerant of the beliefs of others who should only speak in whispers or inside their homes lest they offend you.

[sandnsea]

11. He criticizes the right wing radicals

that's why he talks about it, to beat back the fundamental idiocy that is destroying the country. Clearly the idiocy isn't only on the right.

How is a candidate supposed to talk about the idiot right if the idiot left doesn't want him/her to talk about religion at all.

:crazy:

[Sparkly]

14. Well, I don't think he's really "forced" to do anything.

I think I see what you're saying, but there could have been other responses to the disinformation. (Otherwise I'd think a candidate could be easily manipulated -- Opposition says he's X, forcing him to do Y.)

I also remember him saying in the 2004 convention keynote that people "worship an awesome God" in blue states... So maybe it's just part of who he is or what he wants to say. :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

15. Sorry, Obama's the one doing the whining - which makes him a fucking hypocrite.

Anyone who whines about the right wing politicians pimping god while doing the SAME thing (in a fucking church no less) deserves to be called on it.

Every time he invokes the power of his deity to suck up to christian voters, he reminds non-christians that we aren't part of his exclusive club.

[illinoisprogressive]

19. Obama has to prove his christianity while others don't because of vicious rumors

[beam me up scottie]

20. Yeah, because not being christian is the worst thing they can say about a person.

That's right, keep playing their game, folks, but eventually they'll run out of non-christians to marginalize and start coming after christians of the wrong sort.

[incapsulated]

32. No, but calling him a muslim radical

Isn't good, do you think?

[beam me up scottie]

35. Why do you think I fucking care what religion he is?

I don't want any part of his "Kingdom" here on Earth bullshit and I don't want to hear it from any other Dem either.

I want religion kept OUT of politics.

Sue me.

[incapsulated]

37. Blinded

Just blinded.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Nope, I see everything in secular!

[maximusveritas]

25. Exactly. Some of the people here make me ashamed to call myself an atheist

I guess it's similar to how normal Christians feel when they hear nuts like Dobson or Falwell talk.
But then again, I'm not too concerned about it because I realize it's also part of the message board effect. People who hide their atheism in their "real life" feel liberated on a semi-anonymous message board to rant about the evils of religion. In real life, Obama's faith is a very big positive.

[beam me up scottie]

27. To everyone who is sick of religion in politics, watch this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=62091&mesg_id=62091

[LWolf]

40. To everyone who calls opposition "whining:"

you are uncivil, untruthful, and disrespectful of public debate.

In my personal opinion, that puts you in the category of "pathetic pseudo-bully."

I, for one, don't care if Obama is a Muslim, a xtian, a Buddhist, a Hindu, or a generic pagan. It's his political rhetoric and platform that piss me off. His emphasis of xtianity is just the shaving cream on top of the cardboard sundae.

[DuaneBidoux]

41. He can talk all he wants. I just hope he doesn't believe the bs. Enough faced based leadership!

[Clintonista2]

44. He has a way of turning his faith into something creepy, almost cultish. nt.

[Goblinmonger]

45. So let me get this straight

Fox is a bunch of fuckheads that use the "muslim" card against Obama and then it dies. He thinks it isn't quite dead yet, so he joins a church to quiet them down. He whores himself out to the religious and then starts talking about wanting to be part of the "kingdom on earth" to the believers. And atheists who question that this may show a possibility of further breaches of chruch and state are the assholes for questioning it. Fuck. What can atheists do that won't make them look like assholes other than just shut up.



Oooooohhhhhhhh, I get it.

[Cameron27]

47. IMO, the only time it's appropriate to talk about

your religion is the way that JFK approached the subject. He was forced to make a statement reasurring voters that being Catholic wouldn't effect the way he would govern if he was elected. Obama doesn't have to prove he's a Christian to debunk the lie that he's a member of a radical Islamic sect, and by referring to himself as an instument of God, he's taking the exact opposite approach that JFK chose.