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Is There Any Stopping Hillary? I'm Beginning to Believe Not.

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:13 PM
Original message
Is There Any Stopping Hillary? I'm Beginning to Believe Not.
Yeah, it's Mr. Flawless here again. But, I got to tell you, this woman is just eating up the entire landscape.

In fact, her continued rise in favor with the American people, I think, says a lot about our country. Americans like Hillary and they know that when they get her, they also get Bill Clinton. No "on the job training" there. No sir.

Poll after poll has Hillary whipping all of our fine Democratic candidates in state after state...and increasing her lead.

What's even more important not to overlook is that she is also increasing her national lead against every single Republican running including the newly announced Fred Thompson. The newest Wall Street Journal has her smashing EVERY Republican.

For all their bravura and "praying" that Hillary will be our nominee, I should remind the GOP that more tears are shed in heaven over answered prayers than unanswered ones.

Hillary Clinton has made every political soothsayer eat humble pie and she's still serving it up.

So can Hillary be stopped? At this point, probably not.

And you know what, I can live that.

This brilliant and capable lady knows how to run a national campaign and the GOP had better watch out if she is at the top of our ticket.

Hillary is a winner.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. She might just hold on. She might not.
Edited on Thu Sep-13-07 10:43 PM by Old Crusoe
This fall is going to be a cathartic few months for our party and our country. I expect headlines from the al-Maliki government in Baghdad, and not happy ones. I expect the housing arena to become economically problematic. I expect we've heard about the last of Larry Craig and have yet to hear more about Alberto Gonzales. What if another great storm blows into the Gulf Coast; is Bush's FEMA team any more prepared now than it was before Katrina?

There could be information in a dossier somewhere in a private library or den in someone's home or office or vault in Washington that would be very interesting to read. It might name names. Republican names. Bush White House-type names. It would, let us guess, not be flattering.

Bets are laid that Cheney stays on to the bitter end. What if he doesn't? The political landscape can change rapidly once things are set in motion.

Biden scores in lower-to-mid single digits prior to this week in most national polls. With Iraq increasingly a cataclysmic disaster for our country, who's to say that Biden's voice on the SFRC is not the one Iowa and New Hampshire voters turn to?

Perhaps Obama's strategists are right after all to keep their powder dry until mid-November, and then turn it on big time.

Perhaps Governor Richardson will surprise the field with a strong push in the early caucus/primary states.

Perhaps people watching Edwards tonight on the set will see a man they could well live with as president.

Perhaps Al Gore will decide he wants his rightfully-earned job back and jumps in to grab it. Or Gary Hart. Or Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

So much is at hand. So much could still happen.

Senator Clinton is in the poll/pole position right now, no question. Odds-on favorite to be the next U.S. President.

But it ain't over yet.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. It is going to be a fascinating year, isn't it?? n/t
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Four months to go before the first votes are cast
Politically, a month is considered a very long time. Four months is nearly infinity politically.

Support your candidate. I'll support mine.


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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is There Any Stopping Hillary?
Hillary is not brilliant, but she is smart and quite capable. Problem is, Hillary Clinton will never be POTUS. You've lost your objectivity, something you often see with Democrats. It's an idealism that clouds realism. You forget the makeup of our political landscape, the same country that elected Bush--more or less--to 2 terms.

There is a weapon that the Republicans have just barely begun to use this election cycle, and that's fear. They will play the fear card--most likely Rudy Giuliani--endlessly. Americans, their eyes a little more open because of Iraq, will intellectually question the Republicans playing of the fear card, but emotionally it will affect who they vote for. It won't be a woman and it won't be Hillary Clinton, even though she'd probably do a good job. Right now emotion trumps intellect in American politics. A vote for Hillary in the primary is a vote for the Republican candidate in the general election, meaning at least 4 more years of Republicans bs-ing us down the road to disaster.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. No Dem Is Going To "Outscare" The GOPU But That's Not The Benchmark
If that was the benchmark Democratic candidates wouldn't have got 56% of the vote in the 06 midterms...
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
61. If what was the benchmark?
If you think I'm implying that whoever can best scare America will win, then you didn't read my post very closely. That is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying that fear will be the primary weapon that the Republicans use against the Democrats and that the Democrats had better consider that when making their choice because it's a very powerful and effective weapon. For the Democrats to try to out-republican the republican would certainly be a losing strategy, but to convince the public that you can do a better job than the republican of keeping America safe, that is a winner. If the Democratic candidate can just match the republican (I think Giuliani because he's a better campaigner than the actor) then the Democrat wins because the Democrats are stronger on domestic issues, provided the Democratic candidate is not too soft on their immigration policy, which eliminates Richardson.

The Democrats won in the last election because of this unpopular war and the correct perception that the Republicans are corrupt, not to mention that the Democrats had a lot of good candidates. The presidential election is always different, though once again the unpopularity of the war will be a big advantage. The Democratic candidate must not only say they will get us out of Iraq, they have to have a plan that will convince the public that it's a responsible way of leaving and to give a comprehensive vision of how a carefully planned withdrawal from Iraq is just a piece of his or her overall strategy for keeping America safe. It can be done, but it has to be the right candidate. Hillary's not that candidate. She's too divisive. Too many independents and potential crossover republicans will vote against her. She'll inspire the Right just like abortion and gay marriage. She'll give Republicans a much needed reason to get excited. That is why Karl Rove always talks about Hillary. Don't be naive. Rove isn't doing it because he's really scared of a Hillary Clinton candidacy. It's the reason Giuliani ran an ad attacking her. It's not because he thinks he'd better start chipping away at her now. It's because he want's her to be his opponent. He took his cue from Rove.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bush-Lite
20% less filling... fact-free and the same great taste.
:crazy:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Ironic you'd use the phrase "fact-free."
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. President Dean Agrees!
Dean held on to the 30-point lead he had over Kerry one month before Iowa, and rode it all the way to the presidency.

Not.

Polls mean absolutely nothing now. Zero. Zilch. Bupkes.

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Liberal Dose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. That was a heartbreaking time and I thought I was over it. I'm not. I still can't believe what was
done to Howard Dean, and I hope it never happens to any candidate who stands for the same principles. :(
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary Clinton Does More To Motivate our Opposition than Us
Most of us will drag ourselves to the polls to vote for her in the general election,
but you can be sure that every wingnut in the country will be there to vote against her.
99.9% Repiglickin' turnout guaranteed (by Diebold).
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. Hillary will motivate many Democrats and she's counting on the phrase "President Romney" to motivate
the rest of us.

I'd take almost anyone over Hillary (but maybe not Richardson -- too conservative, or Gravel -- too nutty with that flat-tax, or Biden -- too pro-corporation/anti-consumer), but in the end, Hillary is a million times better than Romney, Giuliani, Thompson, McCain, or Huckabee and even if I didn't want to vote for her, I'd still feel compelled to vote against any of them.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. I take that as a good sign
Would you really want us to have a candidate that Republicans liked?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #50
81. NO...
... but I don't want one that has had 15 years of villification aimed at her either.

If HRC is nominated, we're going to need a lot of luck to win. The race should be a walk but it won't be, you wait and see.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. It only shows you how stupid the American people can be!
Nearly half still believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11, and an equal number believe that Hillary is a candidate for peace and for change.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. or how short sighted and naive her detractors can be.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. That number is down to 33% last I heard
Still way too high.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
49. Yes, and it's best to play the hand you are dealt than to wish for another one that won't come.
1/2 of Americans voted for Bush the first time.

1/2 of Americans voted for him the second time.

Most Americans believed, as you said, that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

Too many still believe it.

There are too many people that believe that "George Bush wakes up every day and has to fight the devil."

1/2 the country doesn't even believe in evolution.

1/4 of the country believes that Jesus will return within the next year.

Which is why I'll take Hillary gladly if she's the nominee.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #49
75. Hillary will turn Iraq into a Democratic war, and she will become a war criminal
Edited on Sun Sep-16-07 12:20 AM by IndianaGreen
Hillary said that as President she will keep a military footprint in Iraq on a long-term basis. In an interview to the New York Times, Hillary explained her reasoning for continuing the occupation of Iraq, even though doing so will turn Iraq into a Democratic war:

The United States security would be undermined if parts of Iraq turned into a failed state that serves as a petri dish for insurgents and Al Qaeda. It is right in the heart of the oil region. It is directly in opposition to our interests, to the interests of regimes, to Israels interests.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0315-02.htm


This past January, at the AIPAC Convention, Hillary gave her views on Iran, views which mirrored the ones espoused by Dick Cheney:

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., told the AIPAC annual convention at the end of January, In dealing with this threat ... no option can be taken off the table.

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0226-25.htm


Hillary will turn Iraq into a Democratic war, and she will become a war criminal if she carries through with her threats made to this year's AIPAC Convention to "keep all options on the table," including first use of nuclear weapons against Iran.

Published on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 by CommonDreams.org

Yes, Hillary, We Do Need Moral Leadership

by Anne Miller


Afterwards I joined the throng surrounding her most were people who wanted books signed and pictures taken, for she really is like a rock star to ask her about a statement she made last week about Iran in which she said no options are off the table. I asked her how she could threaten nuclear genocide on another nations children. She told me that we cannot tolerate a nuclear-armed Iran, for it would be an existential threat to the U.S., and repeated that all options are on the table. When I tried to ask her about the very real role the U.S. is playing in spurring proliferation with our repeated threats and actual nuclear arsenals, she said she didnt want to discuss it and turned away stiffly.

Now Im really glad that I majored in philosophy at Wellesley, so I have at least a cursory grasp of concepts like existential. Its interesting that Hillary used the word, because its not a term used much in American political vernacular. Its much more common in Israel, where the term is used to describe possible, rather than actual, threats. For instance, from Israels perspective, the whole Middle East is an existential threat.

Yes, Hillary, we do need moral leadership. We need candidates from both sides of the political aisle who are staunchly and courageously committed to solutions for international challenges grounded in diplomacy, international law, and human rights, instead of military power and the threat and use of nuclear weapons. Its not Hillarys being a woman that is a problem - its her humanity. Never again can the U.S. use nuclear weapons on another nations children. And we, the good citizens of New Hampshire and of this nation, must not support any candidate who believes that the use of nuclear weapons can ever be an option.

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0214-28.htm


The United States is the only country to have ever used nuclear weapons, and we are the only country on the face of this Earth that wants to forget the horrible legacy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Any Presidential candidate, or American President, that advocates first use of nuclear weapons, is unfit to hold that office and must be kept away from the nuclear button.

Published on Thursday, April 12, 2007 by CommonDreams.org

Awful Truth About Hillary, Barack, John and Whitewash

by Norman Solomon


The Pentagons most likely next target is Iran. Hillary Clinton says no option can be taken off the table.

<snip>

A year ago, writing in The New Yorker, journalist Seymour Hersh reported: One of the militarys initial option plans, as presented to the White House by the Pentagon this winter, calls for the use of a bunker-buster tactical nuclear weapon, such as the B61-11, against underground nuclear sites.

For a presidential candidate to proclaim that all options should be on the table while dealing with Iran is a horrific statement. It signals willingness to threaten and possibly follow through with first use of nuclear weapons. This raises no eyebrows among Washingtons policymakers and media elites because it is in keeping with longstanding U.S. foreign-policy doctrine.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/12/467 /



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. bwahwhawhawhawhawhawhaaaaa!
:rofl:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bookmark This Post
I say this as an empiricist with no dog in this fight...Unless she commits a major gaffe, a major scandal erupts, or Obama or Edwards change the dynamic of this race this primary season is over...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. Four years from now, when you all are feeling betrayed and disappointed by President Hillary
it will be good therapy to be reminded of the foolish expectations many DUers had about Hillary Rodham-Clinton.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #59
72. Who is your dog in this fight?
Just curious.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. Three things that Hillary doesn't believe in: peace, the Constitution, international law
I am resigned to the Clintons returning to the White House with all of their baggage and corruption. I am now among those concerned as to how the Left can defend our core values against the corporate interests that the Clintons represent.

As to this primary season, Dennis Kucinich is my candidate as he was in 2004.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hillary Will Make A Terrific President
As would any of the Dem candidates.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. "Hillary will make a terrific President".... for Wall Street!
Hillary is Big Pharma's "girl."
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #56
66. For Everyone
Yes, that includes big business too, but I suspect she would be able to find a balance in which everyone could benefit. Remember the 90's? Them's was good times for EVERYONE and that benefitted big business. When the little guy has money, they spend it. Hillary knows this just like Bill did.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Clinton nostalgia is a cover for a Clintonian version of "trickle down" economics
You are talking about portfolios while I am talking about paychecks!

The investor class saw their portfolios bulge during the first Clinton Administration, while the working class saw their factories shutdown and their jobs outsourced overseas.

Clinton nostalgia is a cover for a Clintonian version of "trickle down" economics. The great tragedy of having a second Clinton Administration is that the American people could have voted for real substantive change, one in which we could have put people before profits.

After 8 years of Bush tyranny, it would be a cruel twist of fate if the American people were conned into rejecting a better future for themselves by electing a Clinton placebo.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wasn't I paying and supporting that crack Dem TEAM for years for all Dem candidates
Edited on Fri Sep-14-07 11:30 AM by blm
and why didn't they and Hillary show up to oppose Bush and his policies from 2001 through 2006 if they were the team we all helped to fund and build throughout the 90s while we were supporting the Clintons? Was that team only developed to support the Clintons?

I understand that the top folks were with Lieberman in 2003-4 and again in 2006, but what does that also say about that 'team' that was built? Lieberman was Bush's most vocal Dem supporter. Whose side WERE they on from 2001-2006?
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. You are right about what is says about our country.
At this point, most people are looking for competence and efficiency, not a "pie in the sky dreamer". That's why being viewed as the most experienced will continue to work well for her.

Someone has to pull this country out of the ditch.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
76. And you've hit the political nail on the head.
"At this point, most people are looking for competence and efficiency," you write. And I agree.

The cutsey one-liners and candidate jokes are not going to work at all this time. Americans are very serious now and Hillary is a serious woman.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. She will beat any repub in the polls approaching election day.
However, as we've seen in the past, she'll have to be more than 5 points ahead of the repuke just before election day, or they'll be able to steal it again. If she can pull that off, then more power to her.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. Sure, disciplined campaigning and a serious gaffe could change this race in a hurry (nt)
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. I think her nomination has pretty much been bought and paid-for,
But, I will continue to fight it until it is an actual fete accompli.

TC

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. more of that "progressive" mentality: If Clinton is winning there must be some nefarious reason ...
Edited on Fri Sep-14-07 11:43 AM by wyldwolf
... because people can't actually like her and want to vote for her.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
64. Actually, I've re-thought my answer, after thinking about your reply.
I've decided there IS something that can stop Hillary. The absolute and unvarnished truth about who she is: who she is (really) sponsored by in the media and elsewhere, who gives her money (really), what her (real) plan for governance after election is, what the Bush / Clinton /Clinton / Bush / Bush / Clinton(?) "thing" (really) means for America, what role Bill (really) is and will be playing in a Clinton administration, and, judging from past reaction here, how much she (really) spends having her hair cut and done for each and every appearance.

Any or all the REAL ANSWERS to any of those concerns could stop here, but since they will never be honestly and fully addressed by the MSM, the HRC campaign, or HRC herself, we are pretty much on our own.

That being the truth of the matter, I see her as having the nomination clutched firmly in her hand, probably inevitably.

TC


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #64
85. And I guess you know all these REAL answers and have secret plan to enlighten everyone.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
78. And keep fighting!
The competition is good for Hillary and good for the party.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
22. you are watching waaaaay too much
corporate media. Out here in the real world, I just don't see where her 'support' is. On the occasions I have checked w/ corporate media to see which lie they are currently promoting, I discover there are only 2 'serious' democratic candidates. Not where I live.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Heh... now you've got me dreaming...
of another surprise... wasn't there a SCOTUS judge who was expected to rule more conservatively, but it turned out he did just the opposite?

Oh how I pray we get another traitor to the privileged classes.

(Don't even start with me, please... let me dream, dammit!)
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. That's a really good picture. n/t
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
51. It is n/t
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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
28. Turn off the TV. nt
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. Not so sure
Hillary has some big problems:
1. She's a woman (let's not lie, it will matter to some)
2. She's a Clinton (the right's hatred of the Clinton's is totally irrational, frothing lunacy. As far as they're concerned, Bill is the devil and I'd honestly worry for Hillary's safety)
2a. Bill's record was dubious is some areas (i.e. NAFTA), would Hillary follow the same course?
3. She doesn't excite the liberal base very much. I'm part of this one. I'm sure Hillary would make a decent president but she doesn't strike me with possibilities the way, say, Kucinich does.
4. Her voting record isn't disgraceful but isn't especially inspired either. It comes across as a fairly mainstream Democrat, even slightly right-of-centre in some areas.

And the big one:
5. The impression a lot of people are getting is that Hillary's nomination is a fait accompli, that she's expecting the nomination by right (I'm not saying she is but that's the perception). People being people will love to fuck that up by voting against her.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. Picture it! November 2008, Hillary Clinton wins the election.


Both DU and Freeperville
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Nahhh...I give the DU a little more credit.
They will still bitch and moan, but as long as a Dem wins, most people around here will be happy. Besides, if their heads explode, they will miss the opportunity to rip every single move Hillary makes apart. And some of these guys wouldn't miss THAT for the world.

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. It will start with what she wears to the swearing in.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You know...men have it so easy. Throw on a suit and a tie and your ready to be sworn in.
IF she wins, Hillary is going to have to walk a thin line. Does she go with a skirt suit? Or a pants suit? Designer? Red? Cream? Navy? You are making a joke, but the woman's wardrobe is going to be picked apart.

Kind of sad, when you think about it. But that is where a lot of America is.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Of course it will.
People will compare what she wore to Bill's two inaugurations. Then she's going to be picked apart for what she would ware to the inaugural balls.

I remember her dress she wore at the 1993 parties, she looked beautiful.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. We'll be fine, right up until we drop both houses of Congress in 2010
Can you say Contract with America II?

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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Well, then, we should avoid that. n/t
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Not nominating Hillary is a good first step
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. ....
:puke:
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Yup, corporatocracy has spoken through their bought and paid for media.
Hillary it must be.

Pay no attention to those men behind the curtain . . .
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. Rupert Murdoch and Karl Rove both say so, it must be true. n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
41. When you get Rupert on your side...
the sky is the limit.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Get ready for forty four!
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #41
82. Sean Hannity didn't get the memo.
He's been dredging up Vince Foster CT and Arkansas Project crap on his little Sunday pukethon on Faux, almost as if Ted Olson was whispering in his ear. You haven't seen Swiftboating yet, I can guarantee it.

They will be coming after Hillary with every trashy piece of crap they can. That's why all you hear in the media is how Hillary's not making a mistake. That sets up the expectation that a mistake will be made, and when it hits, the story won't be "Hillary rise above," but "Hillary falters!" "Hillary Mired in Scandal!" "Can She Recover?"

And then somebody will leave a mike open, oops! And Hillary will be caught in an angry moment, and "Hillary Goes Ballistic!"

That's the narrative they are setting up. The Fall of Hillary Clinton. That's the drama. That's the story. And the news media will do everything in their power to make sure they get to tell that story. They told the story they wanted to tell about Gore (the serial liar vs Busherella) and Kerry (the veteran beaten by the draft dodger).

And all the while, Big Pharma will be shipping money to industry 527s like steroids to the WWE.

This isn't over, not at all. Not at all.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. Excellent post David
I totally disagree, but I can live with Hillary, much as I lived with Kerry. Including the uncontested defeat on advice of his "organization"

While Hillary is great, her campaign organization shares DNA with the Kerry Klown Kar.

So if she's the nominee I'll have six months to steel myself for the defeat.
I can live with that.


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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Hey Capn Sunshine!
One of these days, we should all go back to El Coyote in Hollywood for drinks and fun. :hi:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Do you mean: "Better to be with the enemy we now know was an enemy and live with it
or to pick the unknown known...and if the enemy now known as enemy is the winner, then you will have time to lick your wounds?
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leaninglib Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. It's not Hillary who is the winner;
rather, it is the world's best political consultant who works for her.
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
46. Certainly, it's her race to lose, but if you think back 4 years ago there were times when Gephardt
seems to have it locked and times when Dean seemed to have it locked. Moreover, the voters tend to suffer from "buyer's remorse" when a candidate seems to have it locked, and the phrase "peaking too soon" has become a cliche for a reason.

Plus, Iowa is a tricky state to win because of the caucus format. Hillary could quite possibly come in third. The candidate who wins Iowa will go into New Hampshire with a bump and the ones who fall short of expectations and who come in third and worse will suffer a dip going onto New Hampshire (remember, a week before the '04 Iowa caucus, Dean was leading New Hampshire polls by as much as 30% and yet he came in second to Kerry after Kerry won Iowa and Dean fell short of expectations by finishing 3rd).

If Iowa finished Edwards 1st, Obama 2nd, and Clinton 3rd and then Edwards and Obama get boosts sufficient that New Hampshire finishes Obama 1st, Edwards 2nd, and Clinton 3rd (or Edwards 1st, Obama 2nd, and Clinton 3rd), those two consecutive third place finishes could steal all of her oxygen and fatally wound her candidacy.

Frankly, short of a serious mishap, that's just about the only scenario where I see Hillary not winning.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
48. Great post.....well said! Hill and Bill the "DYNAMIC DUO," because we
need TWO president's to clean-up the Bush mess!!!
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
52. Chuck Todd and Chris Cillizza said the race was much tighter than polls are showing.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
53. Yeah, she's a winner I guess.
She doesn't inspire me though.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
54. Woohoo! Many more years in Iraq and another four of DLC influence!
Yippie!

Wow, I can hardly control my enthusiasm.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Hillary voted for the Iraq oil bill, guaranteeing a Big Oil monopoly over Iraq's oil
and she will keep an occupation force in Iraq to make sure that her Wall Street backers continue to fill their coffers at our expense.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. Ain't that the truth, IG
I'm at a loss to understand the enthusiasm for her.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
58. Seriously, there are those ethical problems dogging her.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
62. Hillary IS 44 -
great post. And I have to say - great Hillpic there. She looks positively milfy! :hide:
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
65. I'm just so tired of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton....
Give me a break. I want to see something NEW and FRESH in the White House.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Don't put the protest signs away if Hillary gets in the White House!
We will need to resist the Clinton neoliberal globalists just as we resisted the Bush neocon globalists. If we want to end the wars, restore our freedoms, and fight for economic justice, we will have to confront the Clintons' corporatist agenda.

"How dare you oppose our Democratic President?" will become a rallying cry for the apologists for Hillary's unchanged policy goals in the Middle East, her pro-Big Pharma health care proposals, her use of PATRIOT to stiffle dissent at home, and her use of the military to reestablish American hegemony in Latin America.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #65
87. Chelsy in 2016!!!
:patriot:
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #87
89.  Oh Jesus.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. LOL! I jest.
;-)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. Speaking of Chelsea, why isn't she on a Humvee on patrol in Fallujah?
Her mother wants to keep a permanent occupation force in Iraq, so it follows that Chelsea should join the other two spoiled brats from America's two royal families, and go to Iraq to serve in the war their parents support.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
67. There. Had. Better. Be.
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jcrew2001 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
70. The 51% of the population that voted for Bush will stop Hillary
imo
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
71. She can and will be stopped. Don't lose faith. She's an awful candidate.
Every part of the Democratic coalition has big problems with her, except the exalted Senator crowd, the establishment insiders, and her campaign supporters. Her despicable vote for the war must always be remembered. She also can't get any votes from many independents and moderate Repukes. I know a number of moderate Repub. women, and not a single one of them will EVER vote for her. She is a disastrous nomineee who is unliked by millions of grass roots Democrats and hated by the Repukes. Pretty hard to pull that off.
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kad7777 Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
73. Is There Any Stopping Hillary
I wish the American people would understand that a Hillary Clinton Presidency equals - NOTHING GETS DONE.

Republicans were relentless on her husband for eight years. It'll be to the tenth power worse if she were elected President. Republicans will fight her tooth and nail on EVERY issue. GRIDLOCK, plain and simple. I can't believe my ears when I hear people say Hillary Clinton will unite our country. I try to get people to wake up from their Twighlight Zone episode, and smell the reality that's thick and bellowing over their heads.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
74. She hasn't even been tested yet. This primary isn't over till it is over.
No one is in yet.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
79. Al Gore might could.
Or was that thought already expressed elsewhere on this thread?
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
80. Nice Hillary picture there.
And I agree with your analysis.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
83. Is there any stopping her?
Spiderman is trying. We'll see what the appellate court decides tomorrow. On second thought, with our MSM... :shrug:
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klyon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
84. she might have peaked too soon
a few weeks ago I would have totally agreed
but if Edwards could get more air time he might have a chance
but you are right she looks very strong and has lots of money
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
86. My wife and I agree
She was saying the same thing about why people like her. The rabid right will probably not be able to sway the majority to their side, I have slowly come to that realization. Earlier was I horrified at the prospect.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
88. And she'd make a damn good president too.
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