Unions Press Clinton on Outsourcing of US Jobs

[illinoisprogressive]

When Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton flew to New Delhi to meet with Indian business leaders in 2005, she offered a blunt assessment of the loss of American jobs across the Pacific. "There is no way to legislate against reality," she declared. "Outsourcing will continue. . . . We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences."

Two years later, as a Democratic presidential hopeful, Clinton struck a different tone when she told students in New Hampshire that she hated "seeing U.S. telemarketing jobs done in remote locations far, far from our shores."

The two speeches delivered continents apart highlight the delicate balance the senator from New York, a dedicated free-trader, is seeking to maintain as she courts two competing constituencies: wealthy Indian immigrants who have pledged to donate and raise as much as $5 million for her 2008 campaign and powerful American labor unions that are crucial to any Democratic primary victory.

Despite aggressive courtship by Democratic candidates, major unions such as the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters and the Service Employees International Union have withheld their endorsements as they scrutinize the candidates' records and solicit views on a variety of issues.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702780.html

[Larkspur]

1. About time unions hold Hillary's feet to the fire

Favoring outsourcing of jobs, especially my job, to India is the main reason why I will not support Hillary even if she wins the Dem nomination.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Hold her feet to the fire?

I think they need to hold hers and those of every other Dem candidate right next to a Plasma Cutter on this issue.

But Hillary got one hell of a lot of 'splainin' to do on this. She should not be allowed to triangulate her way out, either.

[mod mom]

10. I hope this issue draws a lot of attention. Yes, she has some 'splainin' to do.

[YOY]

3. But but but Hillary loves American Idol, how can you hate her??? She even said so!

You obviously hate women in positions of power. :sarcasm:

[illinoisprogressive]

4. Hillary being a true free trader and dealing with outsourcing

is something that is very worrisome. the working class and middle class cannot sustain many more hits.
Honestly, her being elected would be a huge hit on working people. and yet, they believe in her and think she cares about them and their issues.
We need a friend to the middle and working class.

[patrioticintellect]

5. Those withheld endorsements...

...should go to the man who most deserves them---to the man who will really bring change for unions and benefits to unions across America.

Dennis Kucinich ---Vote Dennis and get one of your own in the White House.

[snowbear]

20. That's a good point..

That Kuch is deserving. Although, I tend to think that Edwards may (MAY) wind up with the big one..

..the AFL-CIO endorsement.

Then again... who knows?

[bvar22]

6. Hillary is no friend of LABOR.

K&R


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[OnionPatch]

7. This is the number one reason

I won't support her in the primaries. She wants to let my job be sent to India? Why should I care about hers?

Edited to add: This is the second time I've had to change careers because the work I did was sent overseas. How many times must I re-educate??

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

19. Yeah, strategically this may be her dumbest move

I just don't get the sense of this stand. While Hillary's policies are infuriating to many Democrats (especially on Iraq), outside of that, she admittedly hasn't made that many big blunders, but that's exactly what this is-- probably her worst political blunder of all.

Honestly, as annoyed as many of my friends are about Iraq, they're far more fundamentally incensed about Hillary's support for outsourcing and increasing the H-1A/B visa quotas, which are essentially nothing more than a dagger aimed right at the heart (as well as the wages and jobs) of America's middle class. In my experience, techies, engineers, electricians, and other educated, skilled workers have been a pretty decent voting block for the Dems-- they tend to analyze things in detail and don't fall for Republican dirty tricks.

But a stand like this on Hillary's part? I can't keep count of the number of educated young people (Dems as well as Independents) who will never vote for Hillary based on this issue alone. Many actually don't care much about Iraq, but they'll never support someone who's in favor of outsourcing and increasing the temporary visa program for skilled jobs, since this affects them right in their pocketbooks. It just hits far too close to home, especially since many of these people have spent years in school and up to their eyeballs in Stafford loan obligations-- outsourcing and more H1a/b visas, that's the very last thing they need!

Again, what is Hillary thinking here? This stand is just so flat-out dumb and sure to alienate, it's puzzling to say the very least.

[antigop]

8. It's about damn time the unions brought this up

and the issue should be brought up for ALL the candidates.

[bvar22]

9. Americans who WORK for a living NEED to know this about Hillary!

:dem:

[snowbear]

11. Damn.. it made page A-01 ...

Ouch!!

[illinoisprogressive]

12. It's ashame that clinton's working class supporters don't know the extent of

Hillary's love of free trade and outsourcing.

[snowbear]

13. So... why have no DU Hillary supporters weighed in on this article?

Seems odd that they are out in full force plastering up polls or for some unfreaken-believable reason are happy she showed up at an AARP event.. ((( )))

And yet not one of them wants to comment on this article?

Why is that?

[OnionPatch]

21. Hmmm... maybe they are company owners

Who want that nice, cheap labor?? :shrug:

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

14. Outsourcing support will probably be Hillary's downfall, even more than Iraq

After reading more about the outsourcing issue, I myself am not sure about it now, but the *perception* about outsourcing is so furiously negative, and it hits people so fundamentally in their pocketbooks, that this probably damages Hillary more than any other issue, even more so than Iraq. Hillary's also been talking up increasing the visas for high-tech workers-- at a time when US tech workers are already in dire straits, often unemployed and usually underpaid, after the dot.com crash in 2000. Most of these people are Democrats, but they're become more anti-Hillary than any other group I've seen other than Iraq War opponents.

What is Hillary thinking with this? Of all the issues not to flub, this is about at the top of the list-- anything that affects people's basic finances at such a critical level, involving the loss of US jobs, is going to provoke angry reactions from the public, and no amount of economic sophistry can change that view.

[snowbear]

15. Meanwhile.. I'm still wondering why no HRC supporters have commented..

Why?

Here's your golden opportunity to give an opposing opinion..

Or is it that even her supporters agree, that when it comes to this issue.. ... you too realize she kinda falls flat?

[tkmorris]

16. They aren't stupid

They know that Hillary has a real problem on this issue, and that it can't be dismissed easily.

I swear I think some of those folks don't give a whit about policy at all, they just want to see their team win.

[snowbear]

17. So they just ignore it and hope it will go away?

Huh...

[Forkboy]

22. Beuller? Beuller?

:)

[Moochy]

23. I think it must be a taboo topic

Policy Schmolicy.... as long as the Presidential party joint keeps getting passed around between bush and clinton families... (kudos to Mos Def for that)

WE WIN ? right? right?

[HughBeaumont]

25. You'll be a waitin' . . . you know.

I don't know HOW many times OhioChick and myself have pointed this very subject out (check out past posts for more detail) and the Hillatrolls ignore it like an 800 pound pile of steaming crap in a living room.

My opposition to a Madam Windsock candidacy is well known; her two-facedness on this issue being the biggest point of contention and one which never seems to get addressed.

Ohio (especially Cuyahoga County) has bled so many jobs, white and blue collar, due to free-trade policies which she continues to support and make no apologies for supporting. There AREN'T two sides to outsourcing as she has claimed (look to my journal or previous posts, I have links). This practice DOES NOT work for Joe Dayjob; it only benefits the wealthy of the countries involved. She's WRONG on this issue.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

27. You're right, this will ruin Hillary in Ohio and similar states

The H1-B program and outsourcing are causing particular damage in states like this, and few things have angered my Democratic colleagues more than Hillary's support of these programs, which are like wrecking balls against the American middle class, skilled workers and technical employees. What a disastrously stupid stand for her to take. This angers people even more than the Iraq War, a number of my Democratic colleagues even intend to vote for a Republican such as Giuliani if Hillary were to be nominated. Hillary is going to be badly defeated, either at the primary level or in the general election, due in large part to this issue alone.

[gemdem]

32. It'll be a cold day in hell

before HRC gets my vote for this very issue alone. I face it EVERY damned day.

My company doesn't hire new software engineers, technical support staff, etc. It farms it out to India. There are now more Indian contractors in my department than there are Americans -- onshore and offshore. The quality of their work is generally lower. Not necessarily for lack of effort, but for lack of experience. And those who have experience don't stay around long on a job, they gain knowledge and move on to higher paying contracts.

So with the contractors left behind, it takes multiple passes being made to "solve" a problem only to "fix" it again when it recurs -- because symptoms are treated, not the core root of the problem. The contractors find something that "works" and use it over and over. The turnover is extraordinarily high and false record keeping is not uncommon -- I know of at least two or three times in the last year where contractors were let go because of falsified resumes (they had ZERO experience as software engineers, and the company was being charged for work either poorly done or not done at all). It's nearly impossible to hold the offshore staff accountable because they're on the other side of the world, and what used to a few hours to fix can take days.

Yet, competent staff with years invested in the company and a wealth of knowledge have been shown the door. They weren't given the option of taken pay cuts, although they were "given the opportunity" to find other work within the company, and they were referred to a job placement company for a period of time.

I've been laid off twice in my career -- once as a company was being prepared for sale and the other time after a company was sold. I was able to deal with those layoffs because I knew that I was a good worker and that there were companies that would hire me. However, the notion of another layoff scares the hell out of me any more. I'm still a good worker, but who's hiring these days? I've taken pay cuts in the past, and will again if need be. That said, who's hiring these days?

These are the same questions the line workers asked back when I was a kid growing up in Dayton, OH. There were factories everywhere, and plenty of work. If you lost your job one place, there was another place hiring -- you'd be alright. But then NCR moved its line work out of town, and a lot of the tool and die shops closed up, and GM reduced its presence in town. Other companies picked up and moved on. Good workers couldn't find work any more. It didn't matter if they up and moved, the jobs and work were gone. They asked "who's hiring these days?" This is the same question that many of us ask today and will ask again tomorrow.

So, HRC wants my vote? Is she going to make sure that I and other Americans have jobs tomorrow and the days thereafter? It sure as hell doesn't sound like it. It sounds like she'd rather send the jobs offshore. And if that's the case, let her go offshore and campaign for votes there, because she sure as hell isn't going to get my vote here.

[Greyhound]

34. That is exactly what has been happening, one sector after another

since Raygun. It happened to me and everyone I knew, some like you, were able to get into other positions, many have moved to other professions, others just disappeared. I've lost count of the divorces, foreclosures, and canceled retirements, I've seen because Bill Clinton felt his legacy was more important that the lives of Americans.

I myself am switching careers (again), but when they see my resume they keep pushing me back to IT, where there are no jobs without five years experience with just the tools they're using. They don't care if you've got ten years experience doing the job, and can pick up their software in a few days, it's all about not hiring Americans so they can get their own H-1(b) slave.

[snowbear]

33. Madam Windsock..

I'm sorry, but that's too..

I'll keep an eye out for OhioChick and your threads in the future..

Important topic -

[PurityOfEssence]

28. How DARE you expect them too, you sexist Republican

This is an interesting pattern, and actually shows some political sense and restraint on the part of her supporters: not entering the fray when the accusations can't be blunted, denied or deflected.

Then again, following the logic that supporters tend to share characteristics with their candidates, it's not too surprising to see deft maneuvering and avoidance here.

It's also beneath them: when you're right, you're right; why bother with the rabble?

[PurityOfEssence]

18. Unlike Biden, Dodd and Edwards, she voted FOR free trade with Chile and Singapore

That doesn't get around much either...

The other three voted against these bills.

[Ethelk2044]

24. There is also a video on youtube where she wants to double

H1B Visas (almost double them). American jobs need to be for Americans.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

26. That's a terrible idea and politically disastrous for Hillary

Again, what is she thinking here? US skilled workers are already beleaguered as it is, and the recent jobs report shows big problems with US employment. Hillary's support of more H1's is the very last thing that US voters want to hear-- this is driving them away in droves from her. Even some fervid Hillary supporters, when they hear about Hillary's support of the H1's, are turning away from her, even moving to vote for a Republican like Giuliani. (!)

Whatever the theoretical macroeconomic merits, the timing is terrible. This is not the time to be supporting a policy that expressly leads to a decrease in American jobs!

[snowbear]

30. And if she made it to our nominee, they'd be playing that video constantly..

She simply has too much ...

[ProudDad]

29. To paraphrase Tom Lehrer's wonderful song; the Vatican Rag

"Tri-ang-u-late, Triang-u-late, Triang-u-late"

[defendandprotect]

31. Unions went from 39% to 8% now? Close the gates --

and the corporations that have left us can just stay where they are --
STOP buying stuff from China -- PLEASE!!!