Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"

[madfloridian]

Oh, he is really one angry man. Three unacceptables in a row while he discussed the primary bill introduced by him and by Carl Levin.

So do something Bill. Sue them. Send around more emails saying to take money away. Do whatever you need to do. Just stop trying to divide the party here. We are falling apart locally, and Karen Thurman is giving in to you on everything.

Are you in total charge of the party here now? Does Karen Thurman ask your permission before she makes a move??

If it is unacceptable, then sue. Get out that lawsuit and sue. Do it. Let's get this whole battle with Dean and the DNC and the Florida victims of your anger...right out in the open.

I am making some more calls tomorrow, but I already know they will be met with the usual silence and often contempt.

Nelson: DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable

You think a lot of Florida Democrats are mad about the DNC saying the Jan. 29 primary won't count? Well, Bill Nelson is at least three times madder. His remarks today, while introducing a primary reform proposal for 2012, about the DNC stripping Florida of all its delegates to the national convention:

"This means the country's fourth largest state will have no say in picking a Democratic presidential nominee. Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Unacceptable. Florida still has several weeks to find a solution the DNC will accept - or, as I have suggested, legal action may be necessary. It's a case of the fundamental rights of voters vs. the rules of a political party. And, as to our right to vote, and have that vote count, there can be no debate."

Bill, you are a very angry man. I have never seen you so passionate. Our soldiers are dying, but you seldom mention them. Elderly, sick, and caregivers are losing homes through bankruptcy over medical bills. You don't seem very upset that by that.

You and Grace, your wife, are part of a powerful group of theocrats. Use your religion to calm you down before you totally split us apart here.

People I did not suspect would change their views are starting to do so.

Bring on that lawsuit, Bill. Let it rip.

[msongs]

1. c'mon nelson, you know the dems will cave if you badger them enough nt

[madfloridian]

2. He is angrier than I am. His head is about to explode.

I am becoming more accepting that it is power play, and I know which side I am on.

Hubby and I will not cast a vote in the presidential primary if this keeps up. We will vote against the GOP tax bill, and this is about it.

This is the most animated I have ever seen him. He must absolutely despise Howard Dean, or else he has another motive...which I will only be able to guess.

[LittleClarkie]

3. If the voters lose their rights, it will be because of the Florida Dems

and not Dean.

They continue to make it sound like their rights are being taken away, as if it were rules vs the rights of the voters. That's a false dichotomy. There was no innate right to move the primary up. If left as it was, there would have been no problem. The voters would have had their say. In breaking the rules, the Florida Dems have been the ones creating the problem.

You don't have to like the rules to follow them.

And don't think I don't remember that you are DLC, Senator. Y'all never did like Dean, did you. You want him out of the way, or should I say, out of Hillary's way, so that the election can be conducted the way YOU want it to be, which is to go back to ignoring some states instead of following the 50 state plan. It was pretty clear what Clinton's folk thought of that plan in 2006. They want the money to go where THEY want it to go, and not all over the place as Dean would do.

[madfloridian]

4. Karen Thurman could tell him to back off.....

But we all know he is the real boss of the party. Time for him to do you know what or get off the pot.

[Dr.Phool]

28. He installed Thurman as Chair.

He even said so, the last time we talked. I don't know what his game is, but it's getting old, fast.

Maybe he should come back to Florida and straighten out this homeowners insurance mess he created when he was insurance commissioner.

[madfloridian]

32. Do you remember a guy who wanted to run for chair..

when Karen did? Nelson and friends are believed to have gotten his butt out of the running fast. I think I know who it was but don't want to say for sure. I believe it was done by invoking some rule about running.

I hate to say too much, because I don't have the facts in hand.

[ChiciB1]

5. Bill Nelson Is ALMOST The Same As Larry Craig... But In A Different

context! He's So "Lite" and DLC that it makes your head swim! However, if you have ever seen him, he goes along to get along!!

I've been to several rallies where he's been "included" in because he has a "D" after his name, but in reality all he does is put his finger in the wind and then goes with which way it blows!

I've written him, called him and even visited his office in D.C, AND he talks the talk to your face but screws you in the end!! I CAN'T stand him, just can't stand him! I wasn't surprised after the 2006 elections to see how quickly he praised and greeted Mel Martinez as a fellow Senator who he felt was GOOD for Florida and one who he felt he could work with in the Senate! However, BEFORE the election all he did was run around the state with John Kerry, for name recognition and in support of Betty Castor only to jump ship as soon as he felt the Democrats got screwed again!

He's one who will NEVER accept any petition signed, you have to contact his office by phone or DIRECTLY, and then it doesn't matter anyway! You get the "standard" Ya, Ya, Ya reply and you know that We The People mean nothing to him! A perfect example of HOW to get elected. Not only that, he presents himself as a centrist when he's really very far right and hides his religious leaning agenda. To me he's almost in the same category and Joe LIEberman and expect him to change to "R" someday!

I can't stand him and only voted for him because I had enough of Cruella, who just happened to weasel her way into being my Representative for two terms! Florida Democrats have REALLY failed us!! Give me another choice and for me, he's OUTTA HERE!

[Hippo_Tron]

6. Bill Nelson, redundant redundant redundant

[madfloridian]

7. Automatic sanctions approved by Florida....he doesn't seem to know.

People are always telling us here that we don't know how the party works, how politics works. Well, right now I can say that I was fully aware that the sanctions were automatic, that the state was warned personally by Dean as far back as January that they were automatic, they were warned in March by Damion LeVera that they were automatic...

SO...that is what you get when a party chairman allows herself to be controlled by a congressman who doesn't know the rules.

This has been very divisive.

Annoying, annoying, annoying.

[illinoisprogressive]

8. Nelson has his agenda he needs to have succeed

[madfloridian]

9. He and Levin planned this whole thing, I think. To get attention

to the regional primary bill they announced today.

I believe they manipulated their state Democrats into attacking and turning against Dean as chair to get more attention to themselves to get their bill noticed.

I in my mind believe they shamelessly used us all....manipulation.

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention

He got our attention.

Hubby and I have decided not to vote for a candidate in the primary. We will vote for other issues, but no one is standing up against this manipulation.

The candidates are afraid to speak up, and the state parties are using us. We are their victims.

On edit....this is my personal opinion. But it appears to make pretty good sense, the timing, all of it. Some others I know feel the same.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

10. Loopy loopy loopy

:tinfoilhat:

Nelson is objecting to the way this is handled solely because he hates Dean? Huh. You don't say.

And he wanted to make sure that this showdown would happen solely to get attention for a primary bill?

Wow. What revelations will tomorrow's ten threads on this topic bring?:popcorn:

(Probably not an answer as to what would be an acceptable solution going forward would be....one that is achievable by the state and that wouldn't disenfranchise a couple of million voters.)

[LittleClarkie]

16. No, he doesn't hate Dean. It's not about hating Dean.

It's about politics. It's about power. Dean has it, and the DLC want it back. They want money spent in certain areas and other areas to be conceded to the Right. They made that pretty clear in 2006. What they hate is Dean's 50 state strategy. If they can weaken him in time for 2008, they're likely hoping to be able to run Hillary's campaign the way THEY want to, and not to have to deal with Dean and his strategy.

They're assuming alot, of course.

Rather Rovian, if I'm right. Or did you think Rovian tactics were limited to just Rove?

[madfloridian]

17. Good post.

It is about the piggy bank moving. It is about power.

They want to keep it.

I am truly alarmed at Nelson and Geller and others here. I do see some breakthrough in the emails tonight, like Thurman is trying to reconcile factions. Nelson is trying to divide.

[Romulox]

22. How dare our elected officials represent our interests???

I voted for Carl Levin to be blindly obedient to the DNC. Democracy demands that the most important decisions be made by unelected committees in secret meetings!

:sarcasm:

[madfloridian]

24. The meetings were on C-Span.

.

Manipulating a party leader to get a bill noticed is pretty bad. But then that is only my humble opinion. Just an opinion.

Withholding funds? That is even worse.

[cali]

31. You mean the Carl Levin who knuckles under bushco?

that Carl Levin? The one who's making sounds about voting for the 50 billion dollar supplemental. Courageous guy.

[madfloridian]

11. Update on the update....

Thurman sounds like she is trying to pacify the various voices. Geller and Bill Nelson do not sound that way. Email received tonight was not bad about the conference call with Thurman and others. We just need to get Geller and Nelson to cool the rhetoric.

SC and NV Democrats do not like the new primary bill by Nelson and Levin.

Line In Sand Has Democrats Hopping

Party officials confirmed Thursday that they canceled a meeting that was to be held today in Tampa to look for a way out, waiting to see what Nelson's next step will be. State party Chairwoman Karen Thurman, who has been avoiding public comment but burning up phone lines for the past week trying to find a solution, may have had a change of heart on the matter. Previously, top party officials have agreed that choosing delegates according to the Jan. 29 primary vote is the only way to honor the will of Florida Democratic voters.

In an e-mail message to state Democrats on Wednesday, she indicated she was seeking a solution that the Democratic National Committee and the four early states would accept. That could mean an alternative to choosing the state's national convention delegates according to the outcome of the Jan. 29 vote. Thurman offered no details, but said party officials "hope to be making an announcement in the coming weeks."

More on this.

Meanwhile, positions of those on the other sides of the argument don't appear to be softening:

•In a Florida newspaper column Wednesday, prominent DNC member Donna Brazile stuck with her tough line in favor of sanctions against Florida.
She said Florida's moving up its primary date "represented a unilateral move that would completely disrupt the system on which everyone had agreed," and that states that make such moves are motivated by an "economic-development plan or a desire to have candidates focus on parochial issues."

•State Senate Democratic leader Steve Geller of Hallandale Beach, responding to the candidates' threat to boycott the Florida primary campaign over the Jan. 29 date, angrily urged Floridians to withdraw their endorsements for the candidates - and maybe their money.

"If the DNC chairman and the Democratic candidates choose to ignore our voters, then we can choose to ignore their campaigns," Geller said. "And where we go, so goes our wallets."

•When Michigan's governor and Legislature last week moved up their primary date to Jan. 15, it added ammunition for those advocating sanctions against states that buck the schedule.

"The problem with making an exception for Florida is that we'd then have to make exceptions for Michigan and other states that would like to be in the window as well, which is most of the states," said Jill Derby, chairwoman of the Democratic Party in Nevada, one of the early states.

Interesting.

[Cha]

12. bill nelson needs to drink

some more coffee..I don't think he's had enough.

[madfloridian]

13. He needs something. He won't let the Dems work for compromise.

.
:hi:

[Cha]

14. Less power tripping for his hidden agenda

and more diplomacy for the greater good.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

15. Wow, looks like Nelson won't let others compromise.

I think others may be willing to calm things down. Bill is still threatening a lawsuit and sounding antagonistic. He is not party chairman. Karen Thurman may have to stand up to him, only she won't.

State Democrats not ready to discuss deal on primary

TALLAHASSEE — Even as some Florida Democrats searched for a compromise, the state's top elected Democrat, U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, on Thursday ramped up his stand against the national party's crackdown on Florida over its early presidential primary.

At Nelson's urging, state party leaders postponed today's planned meeting to discuss ways to escape national party sanctions over the state's Jan. 29 primary.

He also introduced legislation to bring a long-term fix, starting in 2012, and on the Senate floor renewed his vow to sue the Democratic National Committee, if necessary, over the matter.

"Legal action may be necessary. It's a case of fundamental rights versus the rules of a political party," Nelson said. "As to our right to vote and to have that vote count, there can be no debate."

State Democratic Party leaders had planned to meet today in Tampa to consider an option that would schedule caucuses in May to assign delegates to candidates, long enough after the likely selection of a nominee to keep the national focus on what then would be a nonbinding Jan. 29 primary.

Nelson argued, though, that it was too soon to put compromise options on the table, and he has begun laying the groundwork for a possible legal challenge of the Democratic National Committee's Aug. 25 decision to strip Florida of its 210 delegates unless it complies with the DNC's primary schedule.

I am hearing words from other of reconciliation...but he is not going to let them.

Go ahead, Bill, and sue. It might be the best thing after all. I have spent years talking to your aides, being ignored, being marginalized. There is no getting through your attitude. You are making it personal.

[ProudDad]

18. Nelson's not a democrat

just check his freakin' voting record...

Screw you, nelson!!! :nuke:

[ChiciB1]

19. I Second That Comment!!! Screw You Bill!! n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. He is a registered Democrat and was nominated by Florida's Democratic voters

And he has caucused with the Democrats this year, when one party switcher would have given Republicans the majority.

[madfloridian]

30. When you say he "caucused" with Democrats....I would assume he did.

But you make it sound like he might do otherwise, or might have? Is there some insider knowledge?

He is really out to break the back of the DNC, and I have to ask why.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Because someone accused him of not being a 'real democrat'

If he is an independant or a Republcian, why would he caucus with the Democrats?

[madfloridian]

37. Is it true he is hoping for a VP consideration?

I had heard that twice yesterday.

And who does he think would be considering him?

[ProudDad]

35. And nelson and lieBerman make out in the men's room stalls

that still doesn't make either of them a democrat, just a DINO...or Independent asshole...


On Edit: Democrats vote democratically -- For the People not against us... nelson's not among that group... He's a fascist tool...

[Freddie Stubbs]

36. Lieberman was elected as an independent, Nelson was elected as a Democrat

Is you arguement that weak that you have to stoop to homophobic slander? www.freerepublic.com is the place for that sort of thing.

[ProudDad]

42. What part of topical joke don't you understand

:shrug:


As for homophobic -- maybe you ought to check out someone's posting history before throwing out bullshit insults, ok?

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. Someone's posting history doesn't make their homophobic comments any more or less homophobic

The comments stand on their own merit.

[Zodiak]

41. Yup...he votes 80% Republican on big issues.

Chafee had a better record.

Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414
Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862

Nice to know that someone who votes WORSE THAN LEIBERMAN is making this kind of power-play against the 50-state strategy. Nelson apparently doesn't want the Democratic party getting too democratic.

[Totally Committed]

20. DLC. DLC. DLC. DLC. They must be stopped.

This is what placating, electing, and ceding power to these bastards will get us more of in the future.

They want this Party, and those they placed in our government will do their "bidding". Bill Nelson needs to be targeted for UN-election. Period. Only when we are free of the DLC stench will we be able to elect real Democrats who will work with and for real Democrats.





They must be stopped.


TC

[Romulox]

21. Carl Levin ain't DLC...

This analysis is incomplete. Carl Levin isn't DLC, and Hillary has lead in Michigan before and after announcing the early primary.

So the DLC v. DNC analysis doesn't really work in Michigan. This is about fairness. Neither I nor the other voters of Michigan and Florida agreed to go to the back of the bus.

[Totally Committed]

23. Oh, please... where there's DLC, there's plenty of $$$$$$$$$$

Levin may be looking at retirment, and seeing this as a way to make it more affordable.

I'm convinced 95% of all Democratic Party electeds in state and national offices can be/are bought and paid for by one corporation or another.

There's no other way to explain what's been going on.

ETA:




TC

[madfloridian]

25. Yes, they did if they voted for the rules. Florida did.

If Michigan applied to be an early state, and did not make it then they are not abiding by the rules.

Levin knows the rules. This is interesting. Governor Dean is having to enforce rules set when a senator from MI got a deal with McAuliffe that he would not make waves if Terry appointed a committee to change the primaries.

Now Michigan sure is making its move.

From 2005;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/27/AR2005122700902.html

"The panel, which carried the unwieldy name of Commission on Presidential Nomination Timing and Scheduling, made two sets of recommendations, one dealing with the opening phase of the nominating calendar and the other with the later phases.

The commission came into existence as part of a bargain between former DNC chairman Terence R. McAuliffe and Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.). Levin has long agitated against what he calls the privileged position of Iowa and New Hampshire, which hold the first caucus and first primary every four years. During the 2004 presidential campaign cycle, McAuliffe bought peace with Levin by promising to appoint a commission after the election if the senator would agree not to try to blow up the calendar for that year.

The commission, chaired by former labor secretary Alexis M. Herman and Rep. David E. Price (D-N.C.), began work early in the year under pressure to add diversity to the early part of the nomination battle -- diversity being a code word for diminishing the significance of Iowa and New Hampshire.

Proponents of a new system argued that the two small, largely white states are not representative enough of the country and the Democratic Party to warrant the influence they have on who becomes the nominee. As supporters see it, states in other regions, with larger African American and Latino populations and economies with more manufacturing and union representation, deserve a louder voice in winnowing the field and influencing the outcome.

The commission's final recommendation was a classic compromise. Seeking to avoid angering Iowa and New Hampshire voters, the panel reaffirmed Iowa's status as the first state to hold a caucus and New Hampshire's as the first to hold a primary. Seeking to mollify the critics of those two states, the commission proposed inserting one or two caucuses between Iowa and New Hampshire in mid-January 2008 and then adding one or two primaries shortly after the Granite State's primary. No other states would be authorized to hold contests before Feb. 5, 2008."

[madfloridian]

26. I never said Levin was DLC....not my point.

I think we were manipulated by my state and MI, and they did not care if it made us angry.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

40. Implicitly, you, or at least your representatives, *did* agree to go to the back of the bus.

Your elected representatives first agreed to the rules that primaries were to be conducted under in order to count, and then decided not to conduct a primary in accordance with those rules.

Florida and Michigan do not have a leg to stand on in this issue, although it's tough on their voters that their representatives have chosen to disenfranchise them.

[madfloridian]

29. Looks like Michigan will consider lawsuit also....the anger will never end.

And why? Because the DNC had "automatic sanctions" that set in when the rules of the primary were broken.

I think this is getting out of control. The Levin brothers and Nelson are getting louder.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/POLITICS01/709070376/1022/POLITICS

I think this is going to hurt a lot of activists who really do want primary change...I am one of them. But not at the expense of ripping apart a good man who is working for change.

[madfloridian]

33. I have never Nelson so angry.

He must not like being crossed.

Well, I am angry also. My husband is furious. Our area though mostly silent is picking up on the implications of this play by Nelson and Levin.

It is a power play. Bill Nelson nevers gets passionate. He must be feeling threatened at not getting his way.

[graywarrior]

38. Nelson is a republican

[Vidar]

39. Bill Nelson is unacceptable.

[hayu_lol]

43. Bill Nelson, the DINO from Florida...

is no different than Lieberman, Zell Miller, Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu and the rest of the turncoats.

Bill Nelson is part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Wish the people of Florida would dump him.

[depakid]

46. He and others like him really are part of the problem

The party and the nation would be better off if they were ousted- even if that means turning the seat temporarily over to a Republican.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. No, there's a clear line in the sand between Miller and Nelson.

Zell Miller is on the wrong side of the line. Both Nelsons and Landrieu are on the right side, albeit not by much.

Joe Lieberman is sitting on the line, but slipping towards the wrong side of it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. Not to FL Democratic voters

He was just reelected in a landslide last year.

[madfloridian]

48. He and Levin are at it again today.

I totally despise that man now. I know some people have been calling his office very upset...and the aides do not care.

I think Karen has turned the party over to him now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3513561&mesg_id=3513561

[fujiyama]

49. Looks like they've created one hell of a mess

Personally I agree that the privileged "first in the nation" position Iowa and New Hampshire have are ridiculous.

I was upset at first and actually agreed with Florida and Michigan, and I still think the penalty is way too harsh...But it looks like a compromise was reached (and personally I think it sucked), but at this point, they're trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.

[madfloridian]

50. I just noticed a post here today.

It was praising Clinton for her discipline in running her campaign.

I also notice that people have no real clue what is going on about this issue. It is about having discipline and order.

Levin and Nelson knew the score when the votes were being taken. They knew the rules. They waiting until now to make a move.

It is really not so much about IA and NH and SC and NV, as it is about big egos of people who want to control. Nelson is boss here and crossing him is just not done.

If discipline is a good thing for Hillary's campaign, it is a good thing for the party as well.

Yes, they are creating chaos now.