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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 08:22 PM
Original message
"poor are politically mute...What rational politician would listen to the poor? They don’t vote..."
So sad, but so true. If you read this you may or may not be shocked at the reasons attributed to being poor, I was!! Conservatives blame government (welfare) and personal failings (lack of discipline). If only it was that simple, but they have no idea of what causes a person or family to fall into poverty and what keeps them there. All I know is that it is way more complicated than that.

Over the past two decades, America has had the highest or near-highest poverty rates for children, individual adults and families among 31 developed countries, according to the Luxembourg Income Study, a 23-year project that compares poverty and income data from 31 industrial nations. To me, this is inexcusable, and the worst part is that the government doesn't seem to care. The right, to the degree that it pays any attention to the issue at all,...represents a failure of government meddling, not a mandate for more of it. Now I know there are those that do care, but not enough to attempt an answer. This entire situation is reprehensible. Read on and see if you are as shocked as I am.
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On Poverty, Maybe We're All Wrong
By Steven Pearlstein
Wednesday, August 29, 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082801669.html?hpid=news-col-blog

<<snip>>

The left expresses moral outrage -- in the richest country the world has ever known, one in every eight residents still lives in poverty -- and calls for government to do something about it.

The right, to the degree that it pays any attention to the issue at all, notes that while the poverty rate goes up and down with the economic cycle, it has remained relatively stable over the past 35 years and, in any case, represents a failure of government meddling, not a mandate for more of it.

<<snip>>

It is more than a bit disingenuous for liberals to push for worthwhile programs like food stamps, housing vouchers, child tax credits and the earned income tax credit -- and then to constantly cite official income and poverty statistics that do not include the impact of food stamps, housing vouchers, child tax credits and the earned income tax credit.

<<snip>>

Much better, conservatives say, to do away with all those patronizing and inefficient social welfare schemes that create perverse incentives and "empower" the poor to act in their own best interest using the same traditional market mechanisms as everyone else.

The best refutation of this argument that I've seen in a long time is contained in a new book, "The Persistence of Poverty," by a friend of mine, Charles "Buddy" Karelis, a professor at George Washington University. Karelis isn't an economist or social welfare expert but a philosopher by profession with wide-ranging curiosity, a dry wit and a weakness for unconventional wisdom. And after doing lots of reading and giving it extensive thought, Karelis concluded that the reason some people are perpetually poor is that they don't have enough money.

<<snip>>

The reason the poor are poor is that they are more likely to not finish school, not work, not save, and get hooked on drugs and alcohol and run afoul of the law. Liberals tend to blame it on history (slavery) or lack of opportunity (poor schools, discrimination), while conservatives blame government (welfare) and personal failings (lack of discipline), but both sides agree that these behaviors are so contrary to self-interest that they must be irrational.

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Posted on Tue, Aug. 28, 2007 10:10 AM
U.S. poverty rate drops; Kansas sees increase in household income
The Associated Press
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/250231.html

<<snip>>

The poverty level is the official measure used to decide eligibility for federal health, housing, nutrition and child care benefits. It differs by family size and makeup. For a family of four with two children, for example, the poverty level is $20,444. The poverty rate — the percentage of people living below poverty — helps shape the debate on the health of the nation’s economy.

<<snip>>

Poverty has not been a big issue in the campaign, and political scientists said they doubted the new numbers would change that.

“The poor are politically mute,” said Larry Jacobs, a political scientist at the University of Minnesota. “What rational politician would listen to the poor? They don’t vote, they don’t write checks, why care?”

<<snip>>

“For three decades we have had an economy where workers with a high school diploma or less have hardly kept up with inflation,” Danziger said.

Low-wage workers have been hurt by the nation’s declining manufacturing sector, which has lost more than 3 million jobs since Bush took office.
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Many Americans are falling deeper into depths of poverty
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003589318_poverty26.html

Over the past two decades, America has had the highest or near-highest poverty rates for children, individual adults and families among 31 developed countries, according to the Luxembourg Income Study, a 23-year project that compares poverty and income data from 31 industrial nations.

With the exception of Mexico and Russia, the U.S. devotes the smallest portion of its gross domestic product to federal anti-poverty programs, and those programs are among the least effective at reducing poverty, the study found. Again, only Russia and Mexico do worse jobs.

One in three Americans will experience a full year of extreme poverty at some point in his or her adult life, according to long-term research by Mark Rank, a professor of social welfare at Washington University in St. Louis.

An estimated 58 percent of Americans between the ages of 20 and 75 will spend at least a year in poverty, Rank said. Two of three will use a public-assistance program between ages 20 and 65, and 40 percent will do so for five years or more.

These estimates don't include illegal immigrants. Rank said if illegal immigrants were factored in, the numbers would be worse.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good article...thanks for caring.
I don't know what we can do about it. Bush* has created a whole generation of selfish Americans who don't care about the poor or anyone except themselves. All they care about is how small their tax bill will be. They're convinced or brainwashed by (mostly you know who on talk radio) hateful, stingy, rich Rethugs spouting against tax increases 24/7 on almost every media outlet. These people all lack empathy and compassion. When you have people of such terrible character in charge of the country...this is what you get!

The solution is to put lots and lots of real Democrats in office so we have a filibuster and veto proof congress. Then we can do things right! I just wish the first thing a new congress could do is abolish every single law bush passed and start with a clean slate. Wouldn't that be nice?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Everything you said is right on...
These people all lack empathy and compassion. When you have people of such terrible character in charge of the country...this is what you get! And these are the ones who were to restore dignity to the WH, what a joke!!

And I especially like: The solution is to put lots and lots of real Democrats in office so we have a filibuster and veto proof congress. Then we can do things right! I just wish the first thing a new congress could do is abolish every single law bush passed and start with a clean slate. Wouldn't that be nice? This group has made such a mess of everything they have touched that I hope its possible to overturn their laws, but at least there would be hope.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think the poverty level is set too low.
It's obviously not set by anyone actually living on those wages. A family of four living on $20,444 a year?? Where?? How?? That's absurd.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It would be hard enough...
for one person to live on $20,444 a year. Even where I live, which is many years behind the times, the pinch in the pocketbooks is being felt terribly.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. crux
I guess the crux of the question is how does one define "poverty?" It's such an amorphous term that is capable of many interpretations. Is it the same as poor? Or is it worse? How much worse? Does it mean not being able to afford food? Or does it mean you can afford food but not much more? I don't know how to define poverty.

Did anyone see those stats that came out on the poor. The RW'ers are using the stats to show the poor people in the US are really quite well off, thank you very much. TV's, A/C, cars, houses, etc. Yup, our poor people are just living high on the hog ain't they?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The repubs make it sound...
like the poor chooses to be poor. Like I said it is a very complicated issue. but the thugs would have you believe that poor people are living a life of luxury.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sometimes they can't vote and even if they do
it isn't counted. I was a Judge, the Presiding Judge (he was repug) didn't take their voter cards since they were brought to the polls by an abused women shelter and figured they didn't live where their voter cards said anymore, he gave them provisional ballots, which of course aren't counted!
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. That is just plain wrong...
how in this day and age certain votes will not be counted. But repubs know this is the only way they can win elections, by not counting all the votes. If people voted their own interests repubs would have a hard time winning anything.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. A lot of this goes to the wide discrepancy between the number of
people registered in economically distressed areas and the number of people who actually vote...

Here in Cleveland, there is a yearly push to register people who live in the inner city...

They really push for the sign up but then don't push the actual vote because history shows that people living in the inner city do not turn out to vote...

It's a self full filling prophesy...

And after decades of hearing how bad people are in the inner city and welfare mom's driving caddy's and we must cut the taxes for the rich because it will trickle down, why should they think there is anything to vote for...

A vote is a transaction between a political person and a voter...

If no politicians are speaking to the interests of the folks in the inner city and other economically distressed areas, why should they complete that transaction when there is nothing in it for the voter...
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Good old trickle down...
yeah, that works.:sarcasm:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R Our priorities are reflected in our budget...
"With the exception of Mexico and Russia, the U.S. devotes the smallest portion of its gross domestic product to federal anti-poverty programs, and those programs are among the least effective at reducing poverty, the study found. Again, only Russia and Mexico do worse jobs."
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plusfiftyfive Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. But we have the best army and most destructive weapons
And the highest percentage of people in prisons! We also have the highest rate in the percentage of health uninsured in modern western industrialized states. Many of those uninsured are the sickest and least treated.

But we spend 3 Billion a week on an unjustifiable war destroying a nation that wasn't responsible for 9/11. We have the budget priorities of a fool.... a fool and his money are soon parted.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes and we are parting with our children's money rather quickly nt
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. War n/t
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. I am not sure that the poor are politically mute they are just sick of the games
I have worked in urban areas and have seen great interest in political matters. What I have witnessed is, no one enters these neighborhoods until a few weeks before an elections.

Canvasers are disappointed that there isn't excitement when they go door to door, but many of these neighborhoods are frankly tired of seeing people only when they want their vote.

Again, and, again, people come during voting cycles but NOTHING comes back in return for their votes. So, if they see no return in their neighborhoods for their votes, why get excited about an election or worse why bother to participate?
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Exactly what I heard a Yale Pol Sci professor expound on a few years ago
He said the politicians ignore the poor and the poor return the favor, or words to that effect. The poor have given up on the system.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Hard to blame them n/t
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