Dean: The Democrats are no longer a party where the nominee runs things and the party does not.

[madfloridian]

Interesting article about how the DNC strategy is proceeding. Howard Dean and Elaine Kamarck were at a gathering in Martha's Vineyard. Karmarck, a member of the DLC and Harvard professor who supported Dean's candidacy, wrote a study about the efficacy of the 50 State Strategy.

More about her here:

Purple America and the 50 state plan

"If you make your living buying and making TV ads, then you're not really very wild about a change in technology that says, Let's hire organizers," says Kamarck. "The whole political- consultant industry has been built on ads. But with cable TV and the diffusion of media, what the hell good is an ad? The fifty-state strategy takes a generation of consultants and kind of says, Let's put you out to pasture."

And here is more from the gathering she attended with Dean last week.

Howard Dean Tells Democrats a New Day Is Coming in 2008

What he provided were the structural reasons for his belief that the Democrats - so recently on the ropes in campaigning terms - will not only win big next year, but will go on winning into the future.

First is the party's use of data. He reckoned his party caught up with their opponents only this year. But he had forced other changes too, he said, since taking over the national committee in 2005, like ensuring coordinated national campaigning. The Democrats, he said, are no longer a party where the nominee runs things and the party does not.

The former arrangement, he said "meant we were in the field one year out of four, whereas the Republicans, who ran a grass roots campaign, were in the field four years out of four for 30 years in a row."

He spoke about his 50-state strategy, focusing on ensuring the party did not any longer have a real, working presence in only 25 of 50 states.

As he put it: "It's pretty hard to get folks to vote for a Democrat if they're afraid to admit they're a Democrat, in Mississippi and Alabama and Utah . . ."

He further mentioned that young people were increasingly turning to Democrats and were "tired of going to church on Sunday and coming out feeling bad or hateful or angry towards something."

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. And the Democratic "leadership" puckers up for the religious reich's ass

Paying attention to "things that actually appear in the Bible" has been the Republican strategy for more than 20 years. As a gay man, an atheist and a supporter of a woman's right to decide how her own body would be used, it is good to be forewarned that the Democrats plan to continue this strategy that has worked so well for America.

:puke:

[madfloridian]

2. I did not get that from what I wrote.

I think I need to disappear for the evening here.

There is no way we will win next year, at least that is the feeling I get when I come here.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. I got it from the last paragraph you quoted

He (Howard Dean) said "they want to know what are we going to do about Darfur, the environment, poverty - things that actually appear in the Bible" instead of worrying about things like abortion and gay marriage.

Both the right to an abortion and equal marriage for same sex couples are dear to my heart; calling them divisive will not woo any gay or feminist voters. From this quote, and from the general tone of the article, it seemed to me that part of Dean's strategy is to appeal to religiosity. I believe that the way religiosity has been played up very heavily by the DLC darlings gives weight to my fears.

Sorry, but I am seeing more and more effort to marginalize "the fringe" that once stood at the Democratic Party's core, and I don't like it.

[madfloridian]

7. I don't know what to say to that.

You are saying what he is saying....he said young people were tired of that stuff and wanted to deal with real things.

Either things are just crazy here, or I am. I thought I was a great statement and true.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. I'm tired of being marginalized, and thanks for helping

Thank you for confirming that my access to full, civil rights and a woman's right to decide for herself whether or not to bear children are not "real things." Your post illustrates my point beautifully.

[madfloridian]

13. I still don't have a clue.

I edited out the paragraph at the end.

Was that the one that set your anger off toward me so that you implied things about me that are not true?

Happened a lot today.

[patrice]

12. instead of worrying about things like abortion and gay marriage

was not in the Dean quote.

Being "religious" does not preclude either abortion or gay marriage.

[madrchsod]

21. i read it this way...

i think he meant that young people do not worry about gays or abortion because they accept it as a fact.i know at least my daughter and her friends accept people for who they are... i think young are looking at the world around them and see poverty,dafur,and the environment as the issues that they see will have a profound effect on everyone.

[patrice]

27. That's the way I took it.

Young people see all of these other problems and they want to address them too. They don't want Earth to burn because we can't work with bigots from whichever wing.

There are those from the reich-wing who WILL cut their own nose off to spite our face about abortion and gays. We cannot do anything about this kind of people. We can't change them. And we aren't going to oppress or kill them, like they have done to their victims. So, we need to do what we can about those two issues, abortion and Gay Civil/Human Rights, with Others with whom it **is possible to do so**.

Meanwhile, we CAN work with the intolerant on the issues that we DO agree about and that is not a betrayal of any kind or sort.

[LittleClarkie]

28. No, the point is that the Republicans version of religion is divisive

and hateful, hardly what Jesus intended. You should come out of church feeling love, not hate.

I took the last paragraph to mean that young people are seeing through the Republicans attempt to divide with things like the war on Xmas and such. False crises intended to get the Republican base all up in arms.

I think Dean's point, and I must say I don't consider Dean a panderer in any way, shape or form, is that the Democrats don't have to change, or pander. The Democrats already care for the poor. The Democrats already believe in bringing people together, not tearing them apart. The Republicans think they have values on their side, but if you look, you realize the party that actually cares about people is the Democrats.

We're not changing. We're just pointing out something that's always been there. Advertising, baby.

[eridani]

33. Dean is making a reference to the fact that abortion is acceptable in the OT,

--and not mentioned in the NT. Also that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, but he sure seemed to like poor people.

[dansolo]

54. I think you are misinterpreting what Dean is saying

My understanding is that Dean is saying that Religious leaders are fixated on issues like abortion and gay marriage, whereas Jesus spoke about thinks like peace, love, and caring for those who are less fortunate. The difference between Dean and the DLC is that the DLC tries to pander to religious people by trying to imitate the Republicans, while Dean is trying to get the Christian voters to think about the issues that are more in line with the core beliefs of the Democratic Party.

[patrice]

6. Please don't do that.

Lately, there are a lot of people on this board trying to cause trouble about relgion. It's pretty transparent really. They say they oppose relgious fascism, but they intimidate anyone who disagrees with them. Some of them are trying to drive a wedge between athiests/agnostics and those of us who are reconciling with real/true/honest spirituality (though not necessarily with organized religious church businesses).

[madfloridian]

8. Patrice, what did I do?

.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Implying...

That atheists and agnostics (which group, by the bye, includes most Buddhists) do not have "real/true/honest spirituality." No prejudices there, no siree bob. :eyes:

Forgive me for pointing out bias; it is inexcuseable to take offense. How positively uncivil of me.

[patrice]

14. You're reading that into it because you WANT to.

You want to because you are prejudiced against anyone you perceive as opposition.

You don't KNOW diddly about what I think about real/true/honest spirituality and you didn't ask; that's plenty of evidence of bigotry.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Chill Brother!

I know plenty of gay athiests that still find common ground with many of the teachings of Christ. It seems clear that it was in this vein that Dean was speaking. Being an athiest, I hope, does not mean for you that one must reject sentiments like loving one's brother, helping the poor, healing the sick etc.

I believe that Dean has it right. The wholesale abandonment of a 50 state strategy was a mistake. It is vital that a progressive message is delivered by people in all states.

[IronLionZion]

48. Here's what the article actually said:

He said the change is even becoming apparent among members of the Christian evangelical community, whose young people were "tired of going to church on Sunday and coming out feeling bad or hateful or angry towards something."

Instead of being concerned only with traditional evangelical issues like abortion and gay marriage, Governor Dean said, "they want to know what are we going to do about Darfur, the environment, poverty - things that actually appear in the Bible."

He added: "In the last election we went from 19 to 29 per cent of our vote among evangelicals."

http://www.mvgazette.com/news/2007/08/21/howard_dean.php

(it's towards the end of the article)

From that I got that Dean was courting evangelicals because they care about things beyond abortion and gay marriage. They care about the environment, poverty, genocide in Darfur and other things that the Bible actually talks about. I didn't see anything about changing his position on abortion or gay marriage.

Never forget that Governor Dean signed the civil unions bill at a time when fanatics threatened to kill him for doing so and he had to wear a bulletproof vest.

[patrice]

3. I remember how discouraging it was to want to DO something

to help change things and to be told "We don't need that. We only want you to do this ___________." "If the press talks to you, don't say anything. Tell them to speak to _________" certain party officials. They wanted trained dogs not People.

We're NEVER going back.

[dmr]

49. Nope, we're NEVER going back!

I cannot articulate well enough how thankful I am that we have the insightful Howard Dean at the helm.

As Democrats, we have much to offer this country, and the 'people-oriented' Democratic Party is what this nation and the American people need. We must protect the Constitutional Republic before she is lost forever - there are no ifs, ands, buts about it, either!

First off, while we were told to sit on our hands, the Dem leadership allowed the Republicans to lie, cheat and steal the hearts and minds of the everyday citizens. (Liberal is a dirty word, spend and tax, big government, pinko, Communist -- just sick, twisted and totally untrue rhetoric). It's marketing - you hear it enough, then it must be true. Top that off with a generation or two that knows nothing different - then it really IS true!
:mad:

The only way to re-capture and reinvigorate is to do just what Dean and the grassroots are doing - speaking out loudly, educating, and stopping the Republican infiltration into the Democratic party dead in their tracks! How do you get a Republican elected in a blue district? If you can get away with it, have them run as a Democrat! Have them vote blue when the Congressional vote's not crucial, and red when it is. In any case, I was heartened to read Jane Hamsher's blog on the 'Bush Dog Dems yesterday, and the plan to watch and monitor them.

Next, the issue of cowering in fear or the wringing of hands has got to stop. The Republicans will vilify and demonize a Congress-critter whether they stand up for their convictions or not - unless of course, their convictions are really Republican, then what an excuse these 'Bush Dog' Democrats have! They'd rather be called 'pink tu tus', than be outed as the Republican they really are. But my main point here, is Americans want their Democrat to speak out - loud and clear!

Why do we always - ALWAYS acquiesce? Why do we always placate? Why can't we be stubborn, obstinate and goal oriented? Why aren't we prepared with a Plan B and a Plan C when Plan A doesn't work? Why do we always listen to the mind-games the Republicans play? Why do we allow the Republicans to use wedge issues to divide and then conquer the polls and votes? Why do we allow only about 20% of the nation hold us hostage on issues that the majority disagree with?

We need to take this party back. We need strong men and women who will put the people of this nation above all else. We need Congressional leaders who will not wilt under pressure and not allow themselves to be compromised, either by their own doing or by dirty political set-ups.

I'm just sick of it all. I'm scared to death for my family, myself and my nation. I like what Dr. Dean is trying to do.

Hell, I hadn't planned on writing all this, I just wanted to agree with your post, and to give this thread a good kick. I always find it interesting that Madfloridan's threads always get beat up when she posts info like this one. Makes me truly wonder about those who have to throw in a monkey wrench. I realize there are those who have either bought into the bullshit rhetoric or have a need to distract what Dr. Dean is trying to accomplish.

[madfloridian]

11. I edited.

The gist was that young people were tired of being divided by wedge issues.

I don't understand the anger over that statement, but I edited.

[patrice]

16. Some people WANT to be angry.

And they want you to dislike them, because that fits some BS agenda they are peddaling either on themselves or on others.

[madrchsod]

23. you are right..

every generation needs to chart their own course...

[ieoeja]

45. I believe Techbear misunderstood.

What Dean meant was that if a person bases their votes on the Gospels then they should not oppose ("care") about abortion or homosexuality as the Gospels preach against neither. It appears Techbear misunderstood it to mean people should not support ("care") about abortion and gay rights.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Didn't Dean Lose The 2004 Election For Us?

Or so I'm told by the DLC?

But seriously, Dean kicks ass. If Mrs. Clinton does win the nomination - God forbid! - it'll be interesting to see the war that erupts. Hopefully it won't mean another eight years of unrelenting losses by Democrats so the Clintons can suck all of the air out of the room.

[patrice]

18. What happens after 2008, no matter who wins, is 50% about Us. nt

[eridani]

35. Very true

2005 was the first year that I ever heard of any volunteer activist who gave a rat's ass one way or another about who was DNC chair. If Dean doesn't want to stay on another four years, we can do the same kind of lobbying we did then for someone else who believes in the 50 state strategy.

[BeyondGeography]

34. Here's Bill Bradley on the Clinton Effect

"Bill Clinton was the first two-term Democratic president since F.D.R. and was enormously popular — and yet at the end of eight years in office, there were fewer Democratic senators, fewer Democratic congressmen, fewer Democratic governors, fewer state legislators, and the party was in debt. You can be regarded as a charismatic president, and yet it doesn’t translate into structure."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/magazine/25WWLNQ4.t.html?ex=1187841600&en=90aba6d84dcbe092&ei=5070

[ieoeja]

46. I think it will be a cold war.

There was a thread on here last week or the week before quoting UNNAMED (so take it with a grain of salt) Clinton advisors as saying they were preparing to run in the general without any DNC support. It was even claimed they are building their very own voter database.

If true, that would mean Clinton would effectively run as an Independant with a (D) label.

I wonder how that might play out at the National Convention where, for instance, the party platform will be agreed upon. Would she disavow herself of the platform?

[karynnj]

52. Of course he did but you misspelled his name - it's spelled McAuliffe

- who didn't care that the state parties were in desperate shape
- made the decision to have the convention in early August - in spite of the then new McCain/Feingold law - leaving Kerry (more on the record on campaign financing than almost anyone) with the awkward decision of opting out before Bush and incurring the smears for doing so and the CW that the Republicans would out raise them or to use the money over 13 weeks vs Bush's 8.
- who did a lousy job defending the candidate

[madfloridian]

17. Something's in the air here.

There seems to be nothing anyone can say without being misconstrued or attacked.

[patrice]

19. People peddaling false dichotomies. nt

[madrchsod]

25. climate change?

or just a long drawn out campaign season that is being manipulated by the media? it`s really easy to post a blatant lie and some will take it as the truth....it`s silly season at du

[polichick]

20. I've said it before, but it's so worth repeating...

HOWARD DEAN IS A DEMOCRATIC HERO! :patriot:

[illinoisprogressive]

22. yessssssssss! Dean will be in charge no matter what. Dean rocks!

[jaysunb]

24. Good post !

Try not to get bullied into thinking differently.

[madfloridian]

29. Thanks.

:hi:

Kind words appreciated today.

[Larkspur]

26. Yeehaw!!!!!

I definitely don't want the Prez nominee using the Party like a vampire uses its victims. The Party should growing or doing outreach every year, not just during the Presidential election year.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. Better question is what happens after we win in 2008

I hope that whatever Democrat is elected President understands the importance of the 50 state strategy.

[Adelante]

32. You know, maybe that's something we should be asking for

A commitment to the 50 state strategy by our candidates.

[MaineDem]

37. The State Chairs are working on that

Their association is working with the Pres candidates to get them to agree to a commitment to the 50-state strategy.

So far, Clinton, Dodd, Richardson, and Edwards have signed on.

[Adelante]

38. Thanks, that's good to know nt

[Hippo_Tron]

56. IMO, Howard Dean should be given a job at the DNC to deal specifically with this

He's not going to be chairman of the party with a Democratic White House because he doesn't want to take orders from the White House political team.

I think he should be head of grassroots and organization or something like that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. She will pick the next DNC Chair

[Larkspur]

51. If so, hope the DNC members reject her nominee unless she vows to support the 50 state strategy

Don't want the Clintons destroying the Dem Party again.

[MaineDem]

58. She HAS agreed to keep the 50-state strategy

Has has Dodd, Richardson, and Edwards so far.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. The President has always had wide latitude in picking the party chair

[FogerRox]

53. How about winning some of these state house races in 2007

which helps with structure that is organized in 2007, is then ready for 2008.

Build the farm team in '07, then let them loose in '08.

[madfloridian]

55. You said the magic words, Foger...."farm team"...remember this?

Dean at Vanderbilt, guest teaching in Roy Neel's class:

""The number one thing you can do is run for office."

(Class giggles)

"I'm absolutely serious. I am not kidding."

The class grew quiet. Here was Dean as a Johnny Appleseed, sowing civics in the young. While Democrats have conceded parts of the country considered hostile, Republicans have left no office untested, he pointed out. The result is that Dems have no farm system, no ability to find young political talent in red states and groom it.

Run, he urged the students. Run for county road commissioner. Run for city council. "If you don't have people running for offices like county commissioner, who do you think is going to run for Congress a generation from now?

"You may not win the first time," he said, "or the second time or the third time . . . If you lose, so what? It's worth the investment if we can have somebody there who gives the message, who's articulate and thoughtful, and respectful of the voters, because they'll get a better impression of Democrats than they would otherwise if there was no opposition whatsoever. That's the great failure, one of the great failures, of the party. Because we were in power for so long, we didn't think we had to appeal to places like that. Well, we do. And we will."

Return of the Angry Man

[madfloridian]

31. Excellent video interview from that event....about 5 minutes

http://vineyard.plumtv.com/videos/howard_dean_mv

One thing he says that I did not realize:

"Of the 31 seats we picked up in Congress in in 2006...22 came from states that voted for George Bush."

[yowzayowzayowza]

36. Don't fret the 'tudes. "I'm not...

...a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!" - Will Rogers

Truth will out. Thx for the followup. K&R

[mrgorth]

40. MF

You did nothing. Don't let techbear bother you. Go Dean!

[madfloridian]

60. Thanks, I won't.

Appreciate the kind words.

[bettyellen]

41. tks for this Mad, a good read! rec'd

[DFW]

42. Floridian,

This is not the kind of thing i usually get involved in, but
I wanted to add my one insignifigant voice of encouragement.

Being a huge Dean fan myself (I might have mentioned this a
couple of hundred times before?), I know full well that you
got the gist of what Hopward was saying right. If there was
a misunderstanding somewhere, it should have been grounds for
clarification, not a declaration of civil war.

By the way, the Clintons vacation on Martha's Vineyard, and
are there now. The location of this little shindig was highly
signifigant. Whether it hints of a change in the wind at the
DLC remains to be seen, but even the longest journey begins
with a single step, so it bears watching.

[madfloridian]

43. Hi, DFW.

The part I edited was about Dean's comments how we had more in common with the evangelical comnunity than we have differences. It was about building on similarities and not letting differences in wedge issues divide us. It puzzled me if I worded it wrong, so I edited it out.

I do realize a great deal of the significance, but glad to see you give more merit to my thoughts. I know you are a good friend with him.

I almost did not post it, but then I did. Hope all is well with you.

:hi:

[demoleft]

44. I don't understand what's wrong with this:

'Instead of being concerned only with traditional evangelical issues like abortion and gay marriage, Governor Dean said, "they want to know what are we going to do about Darfur, the environment, poverty - things that actually appear in the Bible."' (my bold)

The word "only" is inclusive.
Then he just said more young Christian people seem to feel the need of practicing their teachings in the improvement of their communities and, in a wider perspective, of the planetary community.
Am I missing anything - or Dean just stated more young people want to engage in the global world?

Good news, if you get out of a Church with a laugh on your face and more love to the neighbor. Just have a look at the forum on Israel and Palestine to touch the negative feelings many pour out here on DU - where we should at least respect each other.

Good post, Madfloridian. As usual!
:hi:

[madfloridian]

47. You made some excellent points.

"Good news, if you get out of a Church with a laugh on your face and more love to the neighbor."

I haven't seen your posts for a while...was about to drop you a PM.

[demoleft]

50. I'm more on the LBN threads these days.

Have a look at this, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2961548

Very funny remarks from our DUers!

Ciao!

[madfloridian]

57. Looks like Martha's Vineyard was crowded this week.

Interesting article about the politics there.

Politics at Play on Martha’s Vineyard

"THE paella has been ordered, the invitations have been sent out, and a large white tent has been reserved for the lawn. Next weekend, a few hundred guests, many who spend their summers on this dune-swept island off the coast of Cape Cod, will gather in Edgartown at the waterfront home of Frank Biondi, a former chief executive of Universal Studios and Viacom, and his wife, Carol, for a fund-raising party for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential campaign."

"Meanwhile, about 10 miles from the Biondis’ home, on the northeast side of the island in Oak Bluffs, similar preparations are being made for a fund-raising party for Senator Barack Obama, to be held the following Tuesday at the home of Ron and Judy Davenport, founders of Pittsburgh-based Sheridan Broadcasting."

And more about the DNC fundraising events. From the Democrats Abroad website.

Dean hosted at Martha's Vineyard

"Governor Dean Hosted on Martha’s Vineyard
August 19, 2007 --
On August 16, DA France Vice Chair Connie Borde hosted a $50 per person afternoon reception and fundraiser for the Democratic National Committee at her home on Martha’s Vineyard. DNC Chair Howard Dean was the guest speaker. Dean went on to a $2,500 per person fundraising dinner the same day. International Vice Chair Toby Condliffe assisted Connie and Co-hosted the event along with Rufus Peebles (The Martha’s Vineyard Democratic Council) and Robin Leeds (Women & Politics Institute, American University)."



Governor Howard Dean, Connie Borde (Vice-Chair, DA France), Toby Condliffe, DPCA International Vice-Chair)