Ghouliani thinks Edwards is the most left-wing on health care among the "big 3" candidates

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Ghouliani spoke in Merrimack, NH yesterday and it is being replayed on C-Span. He just said that Clinton and Obama both want to eventually move to "socialized medicine" but he thinks Edwards is already advocating for "socialized medicine." If you were on the fence as to which of the major candidates has the best health care plan keep in mind Ghouliani, the Republican front-runner, certainly dislikes one candidate's approach more...

[C_U_L8R]

1. These creeps are against more things than they're for

such negativity... yuck

[aquart]

2. Sounds like an Edwards endorsement to me. Thanks, Rudy!

So nice of him to get the word out.

[Yael]

7. Hear hear!!

:applause:

[NYCGirl]

3. Shows you how much he knows. The only candidate who proposes a single-payer

system is Kucinich.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Considering the postulate of the 'top three', I reckon he's right.

But of the entire field, of course DK has them beat cold.
How about an Edwards/Kucinich ticket, with Edwards handing healthcare over to his veep?

[NYCGirl]

28. Edwards/Kucinich ticket? No, thanks. NT

[draft_mario_cuomo]

5. He was referring to the major candidates

Ghouliani also surely recognizes that Edwards' plan is the most "dangerous" because it can actually become law. HRC 676 can't even make it out of subcommittee.

[ProudDad]

21. And he's even wrong there

Single-Payer is NOT socialized medicine...

[Yael]

6. IT ISN'T SOCIALIZED MEDICINE

Damn almighty I wish people would quit saying that.

Single-Payer is NOT socialized medicine. Australia, Japan, Canada -- they are all single-payer.

Pisses me off to hear this meme being repeated and not questioned.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

8. Everyone at DU knows that. That is why I put it in quotation marks nt

[Yael]

9. I didn't mean you -- or even the people here

I am talking about the empty suits that are hell-bent on scaring people.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

12. Oh ok. I agree with you completely then nt

[saltpoint]

10. I happened to have the first draft of Giuliani's remarks on Edwards and health

care right here.

Before editing for public consumption, that passage read:

____

"My campaign is accusing the Democrats generally and John Edwards particularly of socialized medicine, of converting the private-profit, pay-out-your-ass, can't-afford-insurance-at-all system. Edwards and the others want a health care system that covers as many American citizens as humanly possible and -- craven liberals that they are -- they want it to be humane, effective, and affordable across all income brackets.

"Under my plan, we'd accelerate the practiced neglect and unconscionable severity of the Bush posture toward public health and well-being -- namely, Ignore Poor People and Screw the Working Class -- and focus more on giving gigantic healthcare HMOs etc whatever they want, and we'd use tax money to fly them in to the White House to actually draft the legislation. It's the least we can do, frankly, after asking them for fat campaign donation checks.

"In essence, Edwards' proposal shifts the focus of public health to the people it's supposed to benefit in the first place in effective and affordable ways, which my campaign rejects categorically in favor of the for-profit model, which serves the interests of an easily-pleased, well-connected minority elite in this nation, many of whom have already written generous contribution checks to my campaign.

"Thank you, and God Bless America."

--Rudy Giuliani

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

[draft_mario_cuomo]

13. Haha! Great post Crusoe

:rofl: :toast:

[saltpoint]

20. Yep -- Rudy's handlers yanked the draft from his gnarled, clutching hands

and re-wrote it for the nightly news cycle.

But it gives us a glimpse of Giuliani's true heart.

The guy's bad news.

[Yael]

15. Okay -- can someone tell me how to nominate this for a DUzy?

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

23. Hi, Yael. I'm guessing you must be involved in the health care

world in some capacity or other (from the link in your signature field), and maybe you see in John Edwards' plan a workable, prefereable policy.

I really like his emphasis on health issues. We sure don't hear much about them from Republicans.

And Elizabeth Edwards lends a certain authority to any discussion about health.

They're a potent team, those two.

[Yael]

26. Actually, I am not. I faint at the sight of blood

Just decided to get off my butt and get active about this shortly before SiCKO came out. Just prior to my Dad's death last year, we had an issue of his coverage being denied and I never got over being royally pissed off about it.

I think John Edwards has the best game plan in town to start this process of reform and I am backing him 110% on his candidacy.

[saltpoint]

29. You had me completely fooled. Coulda swore the health issues realm

was your home turf. Wow. You must have done some grade-A research over the past year or so -- thanks for that and congratulations on being so knowledgeable.

Also: I love your choice of Democrats in the primary!

[Yael]

36. I am taking a different approach with this than most

Everyone has a story of denial and the Michael Moore's of the world are in a prefect position to put faces to stories.

I am an MBA student with an undergrad in Economics -- and my driving force is to prove to the market-minded people that this can and will work. I am very market oriented. McDonalds vs Burger King? DSL vs Cable? You bet -- get out there and compete for my business. That said, it is morally corrupt and ethically outrageous to incent business wages/bonuses/profits on the DENIAL of healthcare coverage. Healthcare has no business being traded as an open market commodity like orange juice futures and gold bonds.

676 is a thing of beauty but it can't even get out of subcommittee. John Edwards is the only one IMO with a workable plan as to how to get us there.

:toast:

[Dawgs]

11. So we're supposed to believe a Republican because it fits your agenda.

No thanks.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

14. This is a political discussion forum

The Republican front-runner saying this is news worthy of discussion and people can reach their own conclusions on this. The fact is of the major Democratic contenders only Edwards has proposed a universal health care plan. Ghouliani is surely aware of this and the details of his plan.

My agenda? You were claiming I supported HRC just a few minutes ago. :rofl:

[Dawgs]

16. I claimed that you hide behind Hillary support to attack Obama.

There's a difference.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. Hide behind HRC support? How? By supporting Edwards?

:rofl:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

19. Lying to smear a candidate is against DU rules

As William pointed out in another round of his pwnage of you, why don't you hit the alert button about lies? Everyone knows why you will not...

==use support of Hillary to do it.==

:rofl:

[ProudDad]

22. No, Edwards' plan is not Universal Health Care

Edwards' "plan" also panders to the health insurance mafia -- just not as much as ObamClint's alleged plans do -- although, to be fair to Obama, since Hillary hasn't actually put forward a plan we can't tell anything about her stand on health insurance except her past performance and the $850,000+ she's gotten from the health industry.



Only Kucinich and HR 676 IS Universal Health Care...

[Yael]

27. Here is the difference

I would LOVE to see HR 676 put in place TODAY. Guess what -- that isn't going to happen.

Edwards is the only one out there with a game plan as to HOW to get us to a 676-type plan.

Set it up where the insurance companies have to COMPETE for our premiums as opposed to cherry picking only the healthy people and watch them implode.

It is beating them at their own game, or what I would like to call 'brilliantly strategic'. Chess vs the whole sledgehammer approach.

[Bongo Prophet]

32. By setting up competition, it is both easy sell and starts a process

"What, are you afraid of ... a little competition?"

Then, the process of showcasing the many benefits of govt backed price negotiation for RX from Canada, etc.

Make sure it is done right, and that people are happy with MedicarePlus or whatever, as it develops. It may take time, but we could get a better system out of it. I think it is good strategy.

This is one of JE's best issues, I think.


Oh, and Ghouliani is an ass and doesn't know shite.
Kucinich is off his weak authoritarian radar.

:evilgrin:

[ProudDad]

37. Allowing everyone to join Medicare

would beat them at their own game.

You are right though. Probably ain't gonna happen. The insurance money that ObamClintWards are getting will keep HR 676 from being passed...or anything that truly removes the for-profit insurance mafia or reigns in big pharma..

[ProudDad]

24. I love this picture...

[saltpoint]

25. Krugman has offered strong praise for Edwards on health issues, but

in addition, a compare/contrast exercise is useful.

Regarding Mitt Romney putting his dog atop the car and driving on a trip with the dog still up there -- on purpose, I mean -- doesn't suggest to me very good animal husbandry. I'm a dog person and I don't like it when anyone mistreats dogs. That's just my take on it, but it's an insight into how Romney might treat anything.

If you don't want to take the time to care for an animal, should I even consider voting for you to a position where you'd have to take care of 300 million people?

Not a "health issue" per se, but again, the dog-atop-the-car incident ought to alarm pet owners.

[saltpoint]

34. Too late to edit/add above, so here is the info on Krugman's piece on

Edwards' health plan:

New York Times: Edwards Gets It Right
Feb 9, 2007

Paul Krugman, Op-Ed Columnist
New York Times Column
Feb 9, 2007


Excerpts (2 paragraphs):

_ _ _ _ _

"What a difference two years makes! At this point in 2005, the only question seemed to be how much of America’s social insurance system — the triumvirate of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid — the Bush administration would manage to dismantle. Now almost all prominent Democrats and quite a few Republicans pay at least lip service to calls for a major expansion of social insurance, in the form of universal health care.
But fine words, by themselves, mean nothing. Remember “compassionate conservatism?” I won’t trust presidential candidates on health care unless they provide enough specifics to show both that they understand the issues, and that they’re willing to face up to hard choices when necessary.
And former Senator John Edwards has just set a fine example.
At first glance, the Edwards health care plan looks similar to several other proposals out there, including one recently unveiled by Arnold Schwarzenegger in California. But a closer look reveals extra features in the Edwards plan that take it a lot closer to what the country really needs.


"So this is a smart, serious proposal. It addresses both the problem of the uninsured and the waste and inefficiency of our fragmented insurance system. And every candidate should be pressed to come up with something comparable. "
- - - - -

[ProudDad]

38. I STILL have a problem with this

"Better still, "Health Markets," the press release says, "will offer a choice between private insurers and a public insurance plan modeled after Medicare." This would offer a crucial degree of competition. The public insurance plan would almost certainly be cheaper than anything the private sector offers right now - after all, Medicare has very low overhead. Private insurers would either have to match the public plan's low premiums, or lose the competition."

What the hell makes him think he can pass the "public insurance plan" that competes with the for-profit leeches???

Why the HELL not just pass HR676... HR676 IS a "public insurance plan that would almost certainly be cheaper than anything the private sector offers right now" -- it IS Medicare for Everyone...

If Edwards had the guts to sign on to HR676, it could pass and he would probably be a shoe-in for election. He could continue to pay lip-service to the for-profit health insurance mafia's "right" to offer inadequate, expensive "coverage" but actually pass something worthwhile for the People.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

39. HR 676 has no shot at getting out of subcommittee, let alone ever becoming law

Edwards is a realist and offers the best realistic proposal. He is the only major candidate with a universal health care plan. You go after Edwards on health care but say nothing about the Obama plan, which would leave at least 15 million people uninsured, and the currently non-existent Clinton plan.

[ProudDad]

40. Tell this to f*cking Pelosi

"HR 676 has no shot at getting out of subcommittee"... It's her freakin' fault along with the rest of the bought off Dem "leadership"...

If the Dem "leadership" were serious about Health Care for all (which they AREN'T), they would push HR676 to the hilt, insure its passage and veto by the pResident and ride that veto into the White House in '09...Then pass it and sign it...

and join the CIVILIZED world in providing Universal, Efficient, Single-Payer Health Care for the People.


You're right that Obama has no details of any "plan" and Clinton just says she'll do "it" without saying what the meaning of "it" is... They're hopeless on this issue.

-------------------

From Edwards' website:

The Edwards Plan achieves universal coverage by:

* Requiring businesses and other employers to either cover their employees or help finance their health insurance.

Not much help here...good luck passing this at the Federal Level - they'd be flooded with 30,000 Chamber of Commerce lobbyists eager to kill it -- better chance at passing HR676!! HR676 would HELP small business and big business by removing the expense of employer paid health insurance and replacing it with the RIGHT idea...


* Making insurance affordable by creating new tax credits, expanding Medicaid and SCHIP, reforming insurance laws, and taking innovative steps to contain health care costs.

Uh, how? How is he going to "contain costs" if he's allowing the insurance mafia to remain in the picture. Only single-payer can supply enough leverage to "contain costs"...

Also This doesn't do SHIT for people like me -- live on Social Security, too young for Medicare -- couldn't fucking afford ANY insurance, even inadequate pieces of shit like most "cheap" health insurance is.


* Creating regional "Health Care Markets" to let every American share the bargaining power to purchase an affordable, high-quality health plan, increase choices among insurance plans, and cut costs for businesses offering insurance.

I already covered this -- he might as well help us pass HR676 as a government sponsored Health Care financing mechanism rather than try to get this hodge-podge passed...a kludge of ephemeris "proposals" that don't take the major problem -- the high overhead and exorbitant power of the insurance mafia...out of the equation.

* Once these steps have been taken, requiring all American residents to get insurance.

Duh, easy to promise since he wouldn't be able to pass that plethora of planlets anyway.


THERE IS ONE CANDIDATE who IS advocating Universal Coverage with the RIGHT financing mechanism -- Kucinich and HR676...

Don't be fooled...

Don't get shortchanged...

[Hippo_Tron]

30. It's GOP newspeak, universal healthcare = socialized medicine

None of the candidates are advocating anything even close to socialized medicine.

[saltpoint]

31. As the turn toward fall comes on, I'm still expecting Giuliani's numbers to

spiral downward. Not as rapidly as McCain have over the last year, but steadily and unambiguously.

I think the main precipitant will be the other GOP candidates' ads against him. Rudy's riding the 9/11 propaganda wagon at the moment (and even then his polling is hardly overwhelming), and the media are letting him off easy, as we'd expect them to do.

I don't think his GOP opponents will strike a similar pose. When they get around to budgeting specific campaign ads this fall, I think Giuliani's name will be mentioned, and not favorably.

And I think those numbers will begin to drop. The fundies are yet to get a load of Rudy's tenure as mayor of New York. It may chill a few perceptions out there in red land.

Already Romney leads in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Rudy's days as a frontrunner, I feel, are numbered.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

35. Giuliani Also Hates Ferrets and Hookers.

FERRET/PROSTITUTE '08.

Also, that's a totally asinine argument.