Do we have to choose between the DLC types (Ford) and Netroots types (Kos)

[wndycty]

Poll question: Do we have to choose between the DLC types (Ford) and Netroots types (Kos)

This is a simple yes/no question. Do we need to choose between the DLC and the Netroots?

EDIT: ". . .or can they co-exist" edited for clarity.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. It's a big tent, baby!

I never did get the whole hate-the-DLC thing. I don't put Kucinich on a pedestal, either, but I never saw any benefit to hating him likewise. And neither Ford nor Kucinich seem to be anti-solidarity and into political hate. (I didn't see the debate, and I am not as familiar with Kos' political style.)

In-house, criticizing each other over issues is fine. And it can be fun. Leave the "fashion tribe" approach to the GOP.

--p!

[Me.]

2. Not Sure Which Is The Question

Do we have to choose between the DLC & the netroots or Can they both exist. My answer would be different for each part.

[MissWaverly]

3. the DLC number one plank is National Security*

America has starved itself with gunboat diplomacy during my entire lifetime, we have had two bloody wars that were based on
lies: Vietnam and Iraq. I don't think we can continue with the rule of empire, we are bankrupting the country. I don't
support the DLC and I hope the candidates will not fall for their siren song just to keep the military-industrial complex
happy.

*I just heard Harold Ford say this on Meet the Press, today, August 12th when he debated Markos

[billyoc]

17. I heard him say that too.

I heard him say that because he is a liar.

[MissWaverly]

18. No, remember DLC = Republican Lite

just keep that Iraqi war going for the defense industry, the oil robbers/companies and the mercenaries who are
making a fortune off our no-bid contracts.

[Dr Fate]

29. Which is why they "used to" support Bush's war and Joe Lieberman ( I ). Anyone feel safer yet?

???

[On the Road]

4. I Certainly Hope Not

because I don't fit into either category very well.

[rhett o rick]

5. Corporitism is what we are fighting. The Republicans all embrace it. Looks to me like

the DLC also does. Ask yourself, does the DLC represent the middle class? Does James Carville speak for us or the rich.

[wyldwolf]

10. the DNC proper takes in countless more corporate dollars thant the DLC

[rhett o rick]

11. I'd be interested in see the statistics on that. Don't suppose you have

any links?

[wyldwolf]

15. Links? Statistics?

"Statistics" are hard to come by actually comparing the DNC's corporate donations and that of the DLC's.

The Democratic Business Council, under the umbrella of the DNC and still thriving under Dr. Dean, originated the Dems party's organized practice of contributions from corporations a half decade before the DLC ever had their first pow wow.

https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute/dbc

http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/507/507_08_DemsTCB.shtml

http://books.google.com/books?id=AX-8RWhxTfgC&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=%22democratic+business+council%22&source=web&ots=49LUgHta7i&sig=jyGi1EJN3d-lxxSQ5i9Y-O8vtHA

[rhett o rick]

27. Do you support the DLC over the DNC? Sorry but I think you have to choose. nm

[Dr Fate]

30. What if a DLCer had to choose between a Dean/Lamont type over say, a Joe Lieberman type?

You better bet they will side with the Joes over Deans and Lamonts every time.

[rhett o rick]

33. Agree. Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean that they don't kiss the asses

of the corporitisits (read fascists).

[MissWaverly]

19. Mr. Carville who begged for leniency for Scooter Libby

Hmmmm, let me think, who does he represent????

[H2O Man]

22. Used his home

to host a fund-raiser for poor Scooter.

[MissWaverly]

23. yes, I think Carville should just be honest, says he leans to GOP

just like his wife does.

[rhett o rick]

26. Too often we try to define the conflict as Democrat vs. Repukes. But that is wrong

the conflict is Corporatist vs. middle class. Carville is clearly not supportive of the middle class. He is a Democratic corporatist elitist.

[MissWaverly]

28. True, very true

[Fovea]

6. Choose between, in what sense?

I do not think it is so much a matter of choosing between, as it is a matter of getting the DLC to realize that despite the fact that they use 'leadership' in the name, they are not the gods of the Dem party, which frankly they have been acting like since the end of the Clinton years.

The progressives are the future and the strength of the party. They are the new wave, and they need to be recognized and worked with, not marginalized, or as far as I am concerned, perhaps we need another decade learning to win from the minority.

OTOH, it is not enough simply to say that corporations are evil. Corporations are whatever the government says they are, and if they are allowed to run amok, as they have since the mid nineties, they can do immeasurable harm, but we can, and should be fixing the role and scope of corporations, because they cannot be done away with.

The centerist Dems could actually lead in this arena, if for a moment they could ween themselves off the corporate teat. Again, this would take leadership, and reform. Two things the DLC seems pretty much incapable of, despite the name.

[rhett o rick]

7. "getting the DLC to realize" Sorry but you ain't gona get the DLC to

realize shit. Do you think if we ask them nicely that they will support the middle class and give up their lucrative ties to Corporate America? Not a chance. They are bought and paid for Corporitists. They need to be replaced with pro-middle class, pro-working class, pro-democracy, pro-Constitution Democrats.

[KingFlorez]

8. Neither one

I think people here overstate how much power the DLC has. The DLC doesn't really have control of the Democratic Party, it's just an organization with in the party. As for the Netroots, their "my way or the highway" attitude isn't helpful at all.

[rhett o rick]

12. I would say that the DLC having the front runner for Democratic nominee, has power. nm

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Of course.

[democratsin08]

13. ford is obama with brains

too bad ford isnt running.

[wyldwolf]

14. well, Ford is certainly Obama with the courage of his convictions

Not many Obama supporters will admit this, but reading Obama's book "Audacity of Hope" is like reading a candy coated DLC/Third Way manifesto. Ford at least admits who he is.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. I'll admit it, but I think you'll see Ford doing the same thing if he ever runs for President

Candidates run to the left or at least talk like they are running to the left in the primaries. All of the top three candidates (Hillary, Obama, and Edwards) are pretty much supporters of a Third Way agenda, although I'd say one that's slightly to the left of what we saw under Bill Clinton. You're seeing all three diverging from the Third Way a bit and talking about reforming NAFTA, if anything out of political necessity because labor isn't happy about the consequences of it.

There's no way in hell that Ford is going to win a Democratic Primary using the same rhetoric that he used during the Senate Race in Tennessee.

[Stop Cornyn]

16. I don't want my candidates vetted in a smoky backroom by people who don't speak for me using

criteria not selected by me.

Likewise, I don't want my candidates vetted in a cyber chatroom by people who don't speak for me using criteria not selected by me.

Whether it is the conservative DLC (which is dislike and distrust) trying to pre-screen candidates or Kos (who I love and agree with 99% of the time) pre-screening candidates, I still don't want my candidates pre-screened by anyone before they are screened by the voters. I like to have issue groups endorse candidates, I like have issue groups rate candidates and score them based on their past votes, I don't even object to issue groups raising funds for candidates, but that's all I really want from third parties and I feel that the DLC and Kos both go further than that.

[MissWaverly]

21. but Markos says that they don't screen candidates

they give the candidate a platform to speak and fundraise from their site, which they do and it works. They don't pick
the candidates, they are very fair.

[Stop Cornyn]

24. No. Kos recruits and promotes candidates and actively favors some primary candidates over others.

[MissWaverly]

25. well, I don't think that is the same thing

using your forum to get people to donate to someone is very different from selecting the candidate. I notice that even
on the Sunday talk shows, they talk about Rudy like he is the favored candidate. I think that is wrong. They
used that approach with Bush and Al Gore and look where it got us today.

[Alexander]

20. No. Jim Webb is neither.

We could use more Democrats like him to replace the DLC corporate shills.

[jefferson_dem]

31. Of course not.

Let's not play into the media's either/or "conflict frame", eh.

[AtomicKitten]

32. I really enjoyed Kos and Ford on MtP Sunday.

It was a civilized discussion about folding the herd together.