Hillary Clinton fans: Convince me.

[LuckyTheDog]

Hillary Clinton remains far and away the leading Democrat in the polls.

I don't know anyone who is enthusiastic about her. In fact, I don't know anyone for whom she is his or her first choice. So, clearly, I am out of the mainstream of the party.

I would like to hear from some people who are strongly for H. Clinton. Tell me why she is your first choice. Tell me what you most like about her. I promise to keep an open mind.

As of know, Clinton is my third choice, after Obama and then Edwards. But then, if she is leading in the polls by such a wide margin, perhaps there is something I am missing. Please tell me what that is. I am completely serious here. I want to hear, from my fellow DUers, the case for Hillary Clinton.

[rudy23]

1. Convince me, too. I asked for this a couple of weeks ago and no one took me up on it.

I'm dead serious, I want someone to list Hillary's qualities that make her the best candidate. I'm completely ready to listen and learn.

[Colobo]

2. If some of them weren't that arrogant, I would listen to them more.

[politicasista]

4. Bingo! I would too n/t

[durrrty libby]

11. ahem That must be a very special glass house you reside in

"and Hillary supporters would like to let Osama go Free

No Thank"

"The hillarybots love her being like Bush. all cronies and no action"

These people are just sad



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3430800

[Connie_Corleone]

19. You can say that again.

If some of them would quit with the name calling and the vile things they say about other candidates (one in particular), I wouldn't have to keep putting them on Ignore.

[durrrty libby]

3. You already have a thread on this. Forgot already???

[LuckyTheDog]

34. Well

Somebody told me there were more Hillary fans in this forum than in the other.

[jgraz]

5. Why should we convince you? Her nomination is inevitable

Seriously, I wonder why we're even bothering to hold the primaries at this point.

(:sarcasm:, cuz this is depressingly close to actual pro-Hillary posts)

[Colobo]

That's how they seem to feel.

[dflprincess]

12. It really does feel like the fix is in, doesn't it?

I was really hoping we'd get a chance to elect a Democrat in 2008. What really depresses me is, if Hillary wins in 2008 we'll pretty much be stuck with her as our candidate in 2012 as well.

[jgraz]

14. Be careful what you wish for

If she gets nominated, I think it's pretty likely we'll have a Rethug in the White House in 2009.

[bluethruandthru]

6. I'm not 100 percent for anyone yet either.

What continues to surprise me though is, as you said, I only know one person whose first choice is Hillary. I know several Obama supporters and about the same number who support Edwards. Who are all the people who are answering the polls? I'm not saying she doesn't have support...but it always amazes me that she seems to be running away with the nomination. :shrug:

[antigop]

7. How can anyone support her yet when she hasn't put forth a healthcare plan? n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

21. She hasn't put forth any plans yet. I sure didn't see any on her website.

[az chela]

8. Like i said on another post,she is a female george bush

[emilyg]

15. I'm sure you'll say it again

[Alamom]

9. She's the best we have and has endorsements in your state. A lot

of people here and outside DU support, endorse and will vote for her, once you weed through the garbage.

My reasons are the same as many. She is the most experienced, is known the world over and will not need one minute of on the job training. I think we've seen in the last few weeks, she's well prepared to debate the other candidates, not afraid to push the Pentagon or anyone for answers and is mature enough to know what can be said publicly to and about other countries.

Here's a few people in your area who feel the same way.


6/18/2007
Michigan Democratic Senate Leader Schauer, State Legislators Endorse Clinton


"Hillary Clinton understands what Michigan is going through economically, and she'll work with us to make Michigan jobs a priority, not an afterthought," Schauer said. "When the tough times come -- and they will -- she'll make the difficult decisions that must be made. She won't hesitate to tackle a crisis head on because she has the experience and leadership abilities to do it."

Schauer said Clinton is "battle tested," which will be important in a general election against any Republican nominee.

"I expect the Republicans will swift-boat any Democratic candidate," Schauer said, using Swift Boat as a verb in reference to the Vietnam veterans group that attacked Democratic nominee John Kerry's credibility in 2004.

Michigan Legislators Endorsing Hillary Today:

Democratic State Senate Leader Mark Schauer, Battle Creek
State Senator Liz Brater, Ann Arbor
State Senator Gilda Jacobs, Oakland County
State Representative Robert Jones, Kalamazoo


6/15/07

Michigan Operating Engineers Local 324 Endorses Clinton


6/8/2007
Michigan Leaders Endorse Clinton
Hillary Clinton received the endorsements of more than a dozen leading Michigan officials and community leaders today on the eve of her trip to Detroit to address an AFL-CIO forum Saturday.

Today's endorsements represent Hillary's growing support in Michigan, and include:

Former Governor Jim Blanchard and Janet Blanchard
Joel Ferguson, Civic leader, Michigan State Trustee
Jewel Ware, Chair, Wayne County Commission, and Jesse Long-Bey
Virg Bernero, Mayor, Lansing
Hon. Dianne Byrum, Former State Representative
Hon. Jim Barcia, State Senator
Rev. Harold Hampton, City Councilman, Benton Harbor
Florine Mark, Businesswoman
Barbara Rom, Managing Partner, Pepper Hamilton
Michael Hodge, Principal, Miller Canfield
Archie Bailey, Chair, Genesee Board of Commissioners
Ken Lampar, Democratic Activist, Macomb County
Larry Owen, Former Consul General, Bermuda and Faylene Owen, MSU Trustee
Zina Kramer, Businesswoman, and Michael Kramer, Attorney
Hon. Barry Howard, Retired Oakland County Judge
Francis Brouillette, Attorney, Iron Mountain
Abdul "Duke" Fakir, Entertainer, Member of the Four Tops
Ted Gatzaros, Detroit Developer
Greg Morris, Detroit Businessman


edgr

[Colobo]

13. Why am I wrong in supporting Obama and not Clinton?

Tell me why Obama is a bad candidate.

[Clintonista2]

16. Nobody is "wrong" for supporting one democratic candidate over another

People try to support those who represent them best. Obama and his positions may represent you best, Hillary and her positions may represent others best. Obama is a great candidate, and I would be happy to support him if Hillary doesn't win the nomination.

[Alamom]

32. You are not wrong. The OP specifically ask a question of Hillary Supporters,

As usual, those who do not support Hillary jumped on it and made it a bashing thread.

It is my right to support whomever I choose.... it is your right to support whom you choose.
Don't doubt your candidate because everyone does not support him.


All of our candidates have much to offer America and Americans as well as re-establishing our connection to the world.

You could try and ask the same about the candidate you support, but most likely, you will not get only supporters, but also those who don't. It is still your right to ask.

I think it's great to point out why we feel the one we support is the best, however, there will never be a time when everyone will agree.

There are no perfect people. If someone told you there is, they lied.

[eridani]

31. Thanks for promoting more outsourcing, guys

;sarcasm:

[Ethelk2044]

37. She is not the best we have MSM trying to make people believe that.

She is far from the best candidate.

[journalist3072]

10. Several reasons

1. She is ready to be President on Day One---Out of all the Dem candidates, Sen. Clinton is the one who I believe is ready to be President on Day One. The issues confronting our country are so tremendous, that I believe we have very little time or room for on-the-job-training. Sen. Clinton will not need the on-the-job-training that I believe the other candidates would need.

2. She knows the issues---As I have watched Hillary Clinton over the years (not just since she's announced for President), I have consistently been impressed with how well she knows the issues. She's very well versed in the important policy matters facing our country.

3. She is deliberative and thoughtful---One of the things I believe we need in a President, is one who will weigh all sides of an issue. One who will not just give you the politically expedient answer. But one who weighs all sides of an issue and then makes a decision. One who understands that not everything is black and white, but is able to get into the nuance. I believe we have consistently seen that trait in Sen. Clinton.

4. She's not so wedded to her own ideas, however, that she's unwilling to change when she knows she's wrong. One of the things that has bothered me about George W. Bush, is that he's so wedded to his own ideas, even when the evidence tells him he's wrong. I don't believe we will see that in Hillary Cinton. I believe that when she starts out with a certain idea and the evidence tells her she's wrong, she will yield to that.

5. She's for DC voting rights. This is THE most important issue to me, as a DC resident. I cannot and will not support anyone who does not understand or support the issue of DC voting rights. The last time I queried the websites of the Democratic candidates, Sen. Clinton and Rep. Kucinich were the only ones who mentioned DC voting rights on their sites.

[Clintonista2]

17. So true, and two things I want to add:

First, people who don't support Hillary often say that her experience in the WH "doesn't count"- I want to point out that she was very active within her husbands administration, and as a result, she has plenty of informal experience, much more valuable experience than any other candidate.

Second, even the most anti-Hillary people agree that she knows how to campaign. She would not make the same mistakes JK made in 2004, she knows how to articulate her positions, she knows when to fight, when to retreat, and when to negotiate.

[journalist3072]

18. You just hit the nail on the head with that last point especially

Sen. Clinton would not have made the mistake of waiting a month to respond to the Swift Boat liars.

I remember reading in one of her bios that one of the things she taught Bill Clinton, is that you have to respond to false attacks, or else people will think they are true.

Apparently, when Bill Clinton was Governor of Arkansas, he didn't like to respond to the attacks. He thought people would see right through the lies of his opponents, and that he didn't need to dignify certain allegations with a response.

And Hillary taught him different. She explained that when a lie has been told about you, you have to respond, or else people will assume it's true.

I have no doubt in my mind that the general election is going to be downright dirty, and Sen. Clinton will be prepared to respond to whatever comes her way. She is unflinching.

[Connie_Corleone]

22. That's one of the few things I like about her.

She knows how to fight back against the Republicans.

I'm glad to see that you offered substantive points about Clinton instead of listing a bunch of endorsements like someone else above did.

I still would like to see some actual detailed policy plans from her. Not just generalizations. I hope she'll have some on her website after Labor Day.

[journalist3072]

27. Go to her website and to the ISSUES tab...Hopefully that will be of some help to you

I do believe it's very important for the candidates to lay out there specific policy positions so people can see where they stand.

Anyway, check out the info under ISSUES and see if that helps you.

[Connie_Corleone]

36. I've been on her website, on the Issues page.

That's why I brought up the detailed plans.

[Alamom]

33. I know the lists of endorsements are intimidating, but she has them and I don't see the other

candidates keeping their's hidden. Granted, in comparison, they have few, but if you missed the Oprah Frenzy, you missed a sight to behold.


However, endorsements aside, I gave my short answer to the OP which you apparently misread. I did include what you said you liked about her. *"She knows how to fight back against the Republicans."


Hillary Clinton **fans: Convince me

"My reasons are the same as many. She is the most experienced, is known the world over and will not need one minute of on the job training. I think we've seen in the last few weeks, she's well prepared to debate the other candidates, *not afraid to push the Pentagon or anyone for answers and is mature enough to know what can be said publicly to and about other countries."

** I could be wrong, but you don't appear to be a fan.



edgr

[Connie_Corleone]

35. First of all, endorsements don't mean that much to me.

That's why I thanked the other Hillary supporter for putting forward substantive points about Hillary. Oprah endorses Obama. I could care less.

Second, I've said plenty of times on here that I'm not a Hillary supporter, but if she gets the nomination I would vote for her. And, I just recently defended her comment regarding lobbyists.

What does me being a Hillary "fan" or not have to do with anything?

[Alamom]

40. It appeared so since you "picked" that out of my response and my response included more than

"just a bunch of endorsements."

I'm glad to see that you offered substantive points about Clinton instead of listing a bunch of endorsements like someone else above did.

I listed the endorsements due to this statement in the OP.

I don't know anyone who is enthusiastic about her. In fact, I don't know anyone for whom she is his or her first choice. So, clearly, I am out of the mainstream of the party.

This happens quite frequently. A poster writes they don't know anyone or don't know "of" anyone supporting Hillary. Many times, she is polling well and has endorsements/supporters in the posters state.
It seemed that was what the OP was asking.


"What does me being a Hillary "fan" or not have to do with anything?"

The OP specially ask:

Hillary Clinton supporters: Convince me.

You bashed and trashed or agreed with the bash & trash in your first few responses and then you did agree with "a" point. (Coincidentally, a point I made in my response along with a bunch of endorsements.)



I also will vote for the Democratic nominee. I have since 1972.
When an OP is addressed specifically to supporters of candidate I don't support at this time, I don't jump on it and bash & trash.
I feel everyone has the right and freedom to support whomever they want.
I also feel they should be able to post what they feel are good points about their candidate in a thread such as this one without having to weed through garbage or go to war with supporters of another candidate.
There are numerous threads on the shortcomings of all the candidates and more than enough for debate. That's just me and not how it is.......sadly.

i.e. I was told upthread, basically, I didn't know who I support and why, the MSM was telling me.

Talk about arrogance. I believe this will be my 10th Presidential Election. I make my own decisions.

[Connie_Corleone]

42. I didn't bash and trash or agreed with bash and trash.

I also stated that it was SOME Clinton supporters that were doing the name calling and making disgusting comments about other candidates.

Most of her supporters I don't have a problem with because they debate the issues. The only ones on my ignore list are the ones who can't help themselves to make vile comments about fellow Democratic candidates.

I've also taken some Obama supporters to task on other threads for the same thing.

And if you think criticizing Clinton for not having detailed policy plans on her website is bash and trash, then that's your problem.

[politicasista]

29. I think you are giving the media too much credit

Swift Liars: Kerry-Edwards Campaign Response

April 14, 2004 - The website for SBVT was registered under the name of Lewis Waterman, the information technology manager for Gannon International, a St. Louis company that has diversified interests, including in Vietnam. (1) (note - Gannon International does not appear to have any relationship to Jeff Gannon/Guckert, the fake reporter.)

May 3, 2004 - "Kerry campaign announced a major advertising push to introduce 'John Kerry's lifetime of service and strength to the American people.' Kerry's four month Vietnam experience figures prominently in the ads." (2)

May 4, 2004 - The Swift Liars, beginning their lies by calling themselves "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", went public at a news conference organized by Merrie Spaeth at the National Press Club. (1)

May 4, 2004 - "The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event...The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.' " (3)


May 4, 2004 - Aug. 5, 2004 - No public activity by Swift Liars (?) Wikipedia entry (7) notes "When the press conference garnered little attention, the organization decided to produce television advertisements." (Ed. note - were there any public info or announcements, other than talk on blogs? Was there anything going on publicly? Did the campaign have reason to foresee what was coming - note that they must have, see the reactions to each ad).

Jul. 26, 2004 - Jul. 29, 2004 - Democratic National Convention held in Boston. John Kerry's military experience is highlighted.

Aug. 5, 2004 - The Swift Liars' first television ad began airing a one-minute television spot in three states. (7)

Aug. 5, 2004 - "the General Counsels to the DNC and the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign faxed a letter to station managers at the relevant stations stating that the ad is 'an inflammatory, outrageous lie" and requesting that they "act immediately to prevent broadcast of this advertisement and deny any future sale of time. " ' " (4)

Aug. 10, 2004 - Democracy 21, The Campaign Legal Center and The Center for Responsive Politics filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that the Swift Liars were illegally raising and spending soft money on ads to influence the 2004 presidential elections. (4)

Aug. 17, 2004 - the campaign held a press conference at which Gen. Wesley Clark (ret.), Adm. Stansfield Turner (ret.), and several swift boat veterans rebutted the charges. (4)

Aug. 19, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced its own ad "Rassmann." (4)

Aug. 20, 2004 - The Swift Liars' second television ad began airing. This ad selectively excerpted Kerry's statements to the SFRC on 4/22/1971. (7)

Aug. 22, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced another ad "Issues" which addressed the Swift Boat group's attacks.

Aug. 25, 2004 - The Kerry-Edwards campaign ... dispatched former Sen. Max Cleland and Jim Rassmann, to Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas to deliver to the President a letter signed by Democratic Senators who are veterans. (The letter was not accepted.) (4)

Aug. 26, 2004 - The Swift Liars' third television ad began airing. This ad attacked Kerry's claim to have been in Cambodia in 1968. (7)

August 26, 2004 - Mary Beth Cahill sends letter to Ken Mehlman detailing the "Web of Connections" between the Swift Liars and the Bush Administration, and demanding that Bush denounce the smear campaign. (5)

August 26, 2004 - Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) submits FOIA request "with the White House asking it to detail its contacts with individuals connected to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT)." (6)

Aug. 27, 2004 - The DNC ran a full page ad in the Aug. 27, 2004 New York Times terming the Swift Boat campaign a smear. (4)

Aug. 31, 2004 - - The Swift Liars' fourth television ad began airing. This ad attacked Kerry's participation in the medal-throwing protest on 4/23/1971. (7)

References:
* (1) SourceWatch article on SBVT

* (2) (2004) Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman, Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman

* (3) (2004) Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Kerry Campaign Response

* (4) (Sept. 8, 2004) Eric M. Appleman (apparently) Some Responses to the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" Ad

* (5) August 26, 2004 letter from Mary Beth Cahill to Ken Mehlman

* (6) Press Release (US Newswire): CREW FOIAs White House Contacts with Swift Boat Veterans Group

* (7) Wikipedia entry, Swift Vets and POWs for Truth

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x2555

The big difference is that Hillary has party and media support. Kerry didn't.

[Dawgs]

38. Except for number five, you just described Newt Gingrich.

I don't just want someone who's intelligent. I want some that makes the right decisions.

[Onlooker]

41. The best reason to support Hillary ...

If she won, it would be the best way to say "fuck you" to the Drudges, O'Reillys, Limbaughs, etc. that we've have had to put up with over the last decade or more.

That's not enough to make her my first choice, but I certainly won't be disappointed if she wins the nomination.

[antigop]

20. This thread is hilarious. Thanks for the laughs! n/t

[redstateblues]

23. She'll never get more than 48% in a national election

She energizes the right wing base- alienates the liberal base- she's unelectable

[durrrty libby]

24. Stop drinking the RW kool-aid. That is all horseshit

[Dawgs]

39. Once again, durrrty libby makes a dumb statement without anything to back it up.

[zulchzulu]

25. Here's what someone I talked to in Iowa this weekend said about supporting Clinton

I was doing canvassing for Obama (http://journals.democraticunderground.com/zulchzulu) when I talked to a woman who support Clinton. She said:

"I'm supporting Hillary becuase she's the most experienced (wrong) and a lot of people would probably not vote for Obama because he's black (wrong)."

Obama is more experienced that Clinton with 8 years as State senator and 3 as Senator. That makes 11 years of legislative experience. Clinton has 7 years as Senator. First Ladies don't have legislative experience. Last I checked, 11 is a bigger number than 7.

On whether people would not vote for someone like Obama because he is black, I'd bet they sure as hell wouldn't vote for a woman either.

So there ya go.

[MasonJar]

26. I am first and foremost a Gore supporter. I was for Gore when he ran

a generation ago because he has always been an environmentalist, which is the first thing I look for in a candidate. But since it is highly unlikely that Gore is going to run this time, I think Hillary is the best choice. She is the most liberal candidate, which appeals to me. In addition, I think it is time for a woman president. Hillary is smart (one does not get into Yale Law School otherwise) and she is a hardworking and dedicated American. She has been a strong senator for New York. She is knowledgeable about health care and she is one of the first people to speak out for a Palestinian state, way before anyone else spoke of such dynamics. Of course the Pugs lowered the boom on her for that. She has been swift boated with the best of them and will not bow to it. She and Bill and Chelsea are extremely popular and well-thought of throughout the world. The list is much longer than this, but I have taken up enough space.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

28. I'm going to K&R

I want to see more people respond to this.

I like Hillary, but she doesn't energize me. She has run an extremely effective campaign so far, but it is early. I think she would be a good president. I think Obama would be a great one. That's the short answer for me.

[KillCapitalism]

30. It would be a hard sell for me to support Hillary.

I want Edwards to get the nomination, but I would for sure support Hillary over any rethug if she got the nom.

I just worry about her hawkish comments she has made in the past. I am tired of war and our troops dying. I also don't think she has the best interests of the American worker in mind. She seems to actually support outsourcing and NAFTA.

[stevedz313]

43. .

.