"Faith Intertwines with Political Life for Clinton"

[SaveElmer]

Very good article...long...a few tidbits here...

WASHINGTON — Long before her beliefs would be tested in the most wrenching of ways as first lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton taught an adult Sunday school class on the importance of forgiveness. It is a lesson, she says, that she has harked back to often.

“We all have things that oftentimes we’re upset about, or ashamed of, or feel guilty over, and so many people carry these enormous burdens around,” Mrs. Clinton said in a recent interview. “One of the great gifts of faith is to let it go.”

The themes of wrongs, forgiveness and reconciliation have played out repeatedly in Mrs. Clinton’s life, as she has endured the ordeal of her husband’s infidelity, engaged in countless political battles and shared a deep, mutual distrust with adversaries.

Her Methodist faith, Mrs. Clinton says, has guided her as she sought to repair her marriage, forgiven some critics who once vilified her and struggled in the bare-knuckles world of politics to fulfill the biblical commandment to love thy neighbor.


...

“Many people have developed opinions about her,” said John C. Green, senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. “Senator Clinton has a long history of involvement in religious matters and appears to be a person of deep and sincere faith, but a lot of people don’t perceive her that way.”

...

And she talked of forgiveness. Mrs. Clinton volunteered that she was moved by apologies in recent years from David Kuo, a Republican speechwriter and evangelical Christian who later worked in the Bush administration, and Senator Sam Brownback, Republican of Kansas, both of whom have confessed to harboring hateful thoughts of her. She spoke of her own shortcomings — “it’s a challenge every single day” — in leading a moral life and of turning to Christian writers for solace after her husband’s infidelity.

...

When asked later whether her faith influenced her to stay in her marriage, Mrs. Clinton responded, “I think I’ve said all I’m going to say about that. Obviously my faith was crucial to the challenges I faced.”

She soon returned to the topic of forgiveness, however, saying she has thought a lot about it over the years. She recalled the Sunday school lesson she taught in Little Rock.

“The whole idea of the new covenant was really a new relationship with God, a sense that we could be forgiven, that we could seek both personally and through our relationships with others that gift of forgiveness,” she said. “It’s instrumental in life.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/07/us/politics/07clinton.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&hp

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Gotta suck up to the fundies to get elected.

[ccpup]

2. that's not fair

not everyone who goes to Church or professes Faith is a fundie.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. The issue isn't whether Hillary is a fundie.

The fundies have made it impossible for candidates not to brag about their "faith." So they have to maunder on about how their faith saw them through crises, blah, blah, blah. If you're not a breast-beating Christian who makes a big damn deal about how your "faith" influences every damn thing you do, you'd better forget about holding public office. Hillary is a shrewd politician. She knows she has to suck up to the fundies in some fashion. Now she has to figure out how not to make us non-fundies not throw up over this "faith" BS.

[jacksonian]

4. friend of mine once said

that you can't get rid of religous BS by not discussing or poo-pooing religion - that only stirs up people's feelings. To change the discussion you talk theology because that just bores everyone.

It works.

[bricolage]

5. The thing is...

..nobody is buying this shit from Hillary. You can't act the way she does and have people believe you have any relationship whatsoever with God.

[BulletproofLandshark]

8. Why not? It worked for Bush.

[bricolage]

19. Good point.

[SaveElmer]

9. Wow...I know it's early....

But that is the dumbest post I have seen so far today...

[Tellurian]

10. What an idiotic, evil, thing to say-

who are you to judge anyone?

[bricolage]

18. I just see the way her campaign has trashed Barack

[bricolage]

20. Sorry to offend

I do apologize to the good people who support Hillary. She's not my cup of tea, but I should respect other views better.

[ccpup]

26. ooops

my bad. I see you had already apologized and now I offer my apologies to you for responding to something you had already covered. Me thinks I need more coffee.

[bricolage]

27. No prob.

I need some java as well:)

[ccpup]

24. so are you now the arbiter

of who has a relationship with God and who doesn't? A smart person would avoid wading into that pool if you know what I mean. One's relationship with one's Higher Power/God/whatever-you-choose-to-call-it is not something someone as wise and discerning as you can judge from the outside ... no matter how much you obviously dislike a candidate. Do you judge Obama's relationship with God? Didn't think so.

Geez, I'm checking out of DU come Primary Season if it's already this idiotic and ridiculous and irritatingly stupid this early in the game. Whew!

[BulletproofLandshark]

6. I long for the day

when political candidates in this country stop kissing the proverbial brass ring when it comes to religion. And the fundamentalists will NEVER vote for her or any other Democratic candidate for office.

[Forkboy]

7. An honest question...

How often did she talk about religion before running for political office? I've never heard any,but that means nothing because I usually tune out most talk of religion.She could have talked about it everyday and I've missed,so I'm genuinely curious. :shrug:

I tend to agree with Ocelot's statement above that it's almost impossible for anyone to run and not play up religion and faith these days (wasn't there a poll recently where far more people would vote for a Muslim or homosexual before an atheist?).

I'd also be curious to know where all of the candidates stand on religious and faith issues on a personal level,not just Hillary.Maybe I'll start a thread later when my brain has turned on.........see you in 2017! :think:

[Tellurian]

11. The only people that care are the useless finger pointers..

all they do is whine and gripe and never have anthing positive to show for it at the end of the day.

Start a thread, why don't you- Let's see who makes the list! :rofl:

[Forkboy]

16. Switch to decaf.

[paulk]

13. she talks about her faith in the books she wrote

when she was 1st lady. I also remember reading other people talking about her faith - not her... I can't remember where, but it was an incident that happened during the Clinton presidency, where she and Bill had to attend a memorial service for some policemen or firefighters that had been killed. She had disappeared for about a 1/2 hour, and when the person relating the story went to find her, he found her in a darkened room, kneeling on the floor and praying. I was really struck by that at the time - I really think her faith is genuine, and not a cynical political ploy as suggested by many.

OTOH, there is definitely an attempt, not just by her, but by the Democratic party to play up religion and faith. There is an organization started by Nancy Pelosi in 2005 called the Democratic Faith Working Group, whose aim is to do just that in an attempt to win over voters (especially rural, conservative voters) that have turned away from Democrats because they saw the party as anti-religion.


ps - disclaimer - I do not consider myself a Christian... and I'm kind of turned off by the emphasis this issue receives in politics. I do understand the need for it strategically, however.

[Forkboy]

15. Thank for the answer.

That's interesting about the praying.I actually like that she thought to keep it a private moment,as it should be.

I suspect most people are genuine about their faith.I have no problem with people talking about it,but it's how and why they do so that I'm interested in.Like you,I don't really like the emphasis on it either,but also know why it exists.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Based On Her War Voting Behavior and 'Deck Them' Political Philosophy...

I'd say she's a God-of-the-Old-Testament kinda gal.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. Just once, I'd like a candidate to say their religion is none of anybody's business.

I'd like to hear someone say:

"My personal religious and spiritual beliefs are just that -- personal, and I do not intend to allow them to become in any way an issue in my campaign. The Constitution specifically says there shall be no religious test as a qualification for public office, and to make any candidate's religion an issue in deciding whether to vote for him or her has the effect, in my opinion, of imposing -- if only implicitly -- a religious test.

If you really want to know what kind of public servant I will be, don't ask me about religion. The world is full of people who profess a particular faith and fail absolutely to live up to it. Instead, look at how I've lived my life. Look at the real evidence of my ethics and morals. Look at what I've done in the past to help others and improve my community. Look at my positions on the issues I'd address if elected. But don't ask me what church I go to. Don't ask me about religion, because you won't get an answer."

I'd be much more inclined to vote for somebody who made a statement like that, than for somebody who nattered on about their "faith."

[NMMNG]

17. Wouldn't that be beautiful?

"Faith" evidenced in personal behavior instead of blathering and pushing other people around?


*sigh*

[papau]

22. "Faith" evidenced in personal behavior appears to be what Hillary is about per post 13 above n/t

n/t

[Forkboy]

21. That would be excellent.

Should happen sometime around the year 2184. :)

[maximusveritas]

23. That candidate may have your vote, but they'd soon be toast

The media would start to ask if the candidate was hiding anything: "Maybe he's one of those devil worshipers." "Maybe something more sinister."
The fact is that most Americans are religious and most don't want to vote for someone who isn't. So when your opponent is talking openly about his faith and you're not, you're going to lose. Plain and simple.

[ccpup]

25. I disagree

I don't think most Americans are religious. I suspect that a healthy percentage of Americans go to church and profess to be "religious", but that, during the week, they are anything but. It's that whole "I'll sin all I want during the week and God will forgive me when I go to church on Sunday". Besides, for some Americans, church on Sunday is where all the good socializing, gossip and flirting is!

But are most Americans truly religious? I don't think so. Most Americans are hypocrites when it comes to actually following the words that Jesus and God allegedly put down in that book.

I do believe you're right, though, in that many Americans have somewhat of a "bar" for candidates to cross when it comes to expressing their Faith. Which, by the way, runs counter to what's in the Bible about judging others and proclaiming one's religion in public instead of in private where it belongs. (I'm paraphrasing from memory as I'm obviously no fan of the Bible, so forgive any errors)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. Yes. That's exactly the problem.

In the U.S. these days you are considered to be in some way morally defective, or at least suspect, if you aren't religious -- and in most cases, specifically Christian. So when a candidate touts his or her faith, I am automatically suspicious about that person's sincerity because professions of faith have now become obligatory. Maybe the candidate's faith is genuine; maybe not. All we know is that all candidates have to make religious noises to be taken seriously, which makes hypocrites and phonies of some and insults the genuine faith of others.

[Arugula Latte]

29. Mark Twain: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." n/t