Michael Moore's Sicko So Meano To Hillary

[elizm]

Michael Moore's Sicko So Meano To Hillary

Michael Moore sure is getting a lot of mileage out of the hit he takes on Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) in his provocative new movie Sicko, which made its Washington premiere Wednesday night at the Uptown theater.

Moore told the Sleuth in the lobby of the theater after the premiere that movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, a personal friend and supporter of the Clintons whose company financed Sicko, "begged" him to remove a key scene exposing Hillary as the second-highest recipient of campaign donations from the health care industry.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2007/06/michael_moores_sicko_so_meano.html

[yurbud]

1. why not beg Hillary to give back their blood money?

[AtomicKitten]

2. sometimes the truth hurts

And this is proof-positive that we need to take corporate money out of politics.

It precludes government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

[mzmolly]

4. Agreed. And, I expect many politicians would agree as well.

Howard Dean has proven that we the people can compete with the lobbyists in terms of cash.

[dansolo]

14. Only if it is for someone we like

I gave money to Dean, and I'll probably give money to Gore if he runs. I doubt I'll give to anyone else.

[Tellurian]

38. Corporate money is BS...

It all depends who's sitting in the drivers seat. Bush has been the worst example of corporate welfare.
We can make the corporations work for us...and as I said, It all depends on who's in power.

We know, we do not want Republicans in power. I Trust the Clinton's will do right by us, and make the corps work for us!

Obama is practically a bought and paid for shill surrounding himself w/Republican sycophants.. If you can't see it, I can!

[Capn Sunshine]

58. Yes it is BS, and they know how to spread it around

:nuke:

[ProudDad]

67. "I Trust the Clinton's will do right by us, and make the corps work for us!"

Wha?????????

The "Clintons" aren't running, Hillary the Health Insurance Mafia's friend is running.

2nd fallacy, you CAN'T make the corps work for us any more than you could get Jeff Dahmer to "work for us". Corporations embody (by DSM-IV definition) psychopathic personalities.

--------------

http://www.thecorporation.com/

"Eminent Canadian law professor and legal theorist Joel Bakan contends the modern business corporation is created by law to function like a psychopathic personality.

<split>

"Beginning with its origins in the sixteenth century, Bakan traces the corporation's rise to dominance. In what Simon and Schuster describes as "the most revolutionary assessment of the corporation since Peter Drucker's early works", The Corporation makes the following claims:

* Corporations are required by law to elevate their own interests above those of others, making them prone to prey upon and exploit others without regard for legal rules or moral limits.
* Corporate social responsibility, though sometimes yielding positive results, most often serves to mask the corporation's true character, not to change it.
* The corporation's unbridled self interest victimizes individuals, the environment, and even shareholders, and can cause corporations to self-destruct, as recent Wall Street scandals reveal.
* Despite its flawed character, governments have freed the corporation from legal constraints through deregulation, and granted it ever greater power over society through privatization."


From the DSM-IV: "The essential feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood. This pattern has also been referred to as psychopathy, sociopathy, or dyssocial personality disorder. Because deceit and manipulation are central features of Antisocial Personality Disorder, it may be especially helpful to integrate information acquired from systematic clinical assessment with information collected from collateral sources...."

http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=3928&searchStr=antisocial+personality+disorder

[mzmolly]

41. I'll give money to the nominee because I like the idea of a Democratic President.

;)

[Vincardog]

5. We HAVE TO to take corporate money out of politics, or we are lost

and OUR great Experiment is over.

[autorank]

54. Rid us of this money!

If there's no corporate money, we can expand the range of candidates and get people who are bright
enough, bu tnot rich enough to serve.

:hi:

[polichick]

3. Moore tells it like he sees it...

I like that about him.

[durrrty libby]

7. In the movie he also shows how hard Hillary tried to get

health care and all the assholes she was up against

But you don't like that truth, do you?

[polichick]

10. Why would you say that?

Of course I like it ~ the truth is the point of what Moore does.

[durrrty libby]

17. If you are not one of the usual Hill bashers, my apologies.

[polichick]

20. Apology accepted :)

Actually I find the bashing here disturbing ~ seems to me it's doing the dirty work of Reps for them.

As for Moore, I think he should tell it like he sees it ~ no matter what or who is exposed. It's so hard to get the whole story these days, his work is especially important.

[Hekate]

12. Thanks for accurate recall of when Hillary was pilloried by the Gingrich Congress

It's distressing how many DUers buy in to the selective memory process of the Hillary-haters.

Bill Clinton sent Hillary down to Congress with their health care package and she was just about beaten bloody by the Republicans. I count that as the time from which the Right began to smear and demonize her at every opportunity.

She tried her damndest. Whatever flaws there were in that plan could have been hammered out in a bipartisan fashion, but too many people seem to forget that the Gingrich Congress wanted no part of bipartisanship.

Hekate

[durrrty libby]

16. Yep, them assholey pukes kicked the hell out of her 24/7

She had to put it all on ice, for the sake of Bill's presidency

I hope she gets a chance to twist their balls off in 08.

[eridani]

55. The flaw was that it was a total sellout to large insurance companies

It asked if they would pretty please with sugar on it and a cherry on top insure more actual sick people if the government funnelled billions of tax dollars into their coffers. Even that was too much for the Rethugs.

When in bleeding hell will she learn that inviting them to the table will ALWAYS have this result? Charlie Brown. Lucy. Football.

[DS1]

6. Tough nuggets, Hillo!

[SaveElmer]

8. Will only help Hillary...

Who has a very good record on healthcare, and everyone knows it...an attack from Moore will only help with those who think she's too liberal...

Moore is a gifted propagandist, but doesn't have a clue how to actually get anything done...which is why he makes movies I guess...

[rinsd]

9. I think its effect on Hillary will be minimal.

Based on who will see it, when its coming out etc. I really don't seeing this affecting Hillary one way or the other.

[SaveElmer]

11. Yes...any effect will be marginal...nt

[JTFrog]

15. Remove the rose colored

glasses for a few minutes everyday. It helps one see reality.

There is a perpetual spin cycle around here that makes one nauseous.

Whatever she did ten years ago will definitely be washed out by the fact that she folded to the corporate buck and put herself and her goals above what's right for the American people. I'm sure she convinced herself she'd make it up to us someday when she got to sit on the throne.

*edited to correct my english.

[wyldwolf]

25. Yes, pleae, "Remove the rose colored."

Every so often some new revelation in regards to Clinton makes the howler monkeys on the left and right scream about how much this is gonna hurt Hillary. But it doesn't. Except THIS one will... no? Well maybe THIS one... what? Her approval is up five points???

[SaveElmer]

26. Ah....

And you have some evidence of this right...

Does the many millions that Ted Kennedy has taken from Big Pharma and Big Healthcare over the years bother you?

Probably not...

You need to take the blinders off...the average voter isn't gonna care two hoots about where Hillary got her money from. They know damn well every candidate is getting PAC money from business...and they know damn well Hillary is the only candidate in the race who has actually accomplished something toward healthcare for all...

[durrrty libby]

19. I have seen the movie and yes he shows many politicians

who get some of the health care dough He also shows great empathy for her

He does a piece showing how hard she worked for health care reform during Bill's
presidency, and what a bunch of assholes Newt and the boys were.

Moore shows the history of health care and the repukes. They come off looking very, very bad.

They will not be happy. Saint Ronny gets a few punches, that make him look bizarre.

[eridani]

56. The CA state legislature knows how to get something done

They passed single payer and were within two votes of being able to override Ahnold's veto.

[rinsd]

61. Umm they passed that in an election year as an FU to Ahnuld

That bill had been floating around for years.

Notice it has yet to come up for another vote.

[eridani]

62. 2 votes short of a veto override is major support

"Floating around" -- Jeezus H. Christ! That bill was the result of intensive coalition building and lobbying for 10 years, and it is going to go through again this year. BTW, no legislators have yet lost their seats for supporting it.

[ProudDad]

68. Do google before flapping gums

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0801-0850/sb_840_vote_20070606_0151PM_sen_floor.html

SB840 has already passed in the Senate.

AYES 23. NOES 15

Now on to the Assembly...

[rinsd]

77. Check bill status before leaving the PIgsty

http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_840&sess=CUR&house=B%0D&site=sen

Its been re-refered back to the Health Committee after being amended.

Thoguh I did miss the Senate vote.

I still think it was more about the politics of Ahnuld's inevitable veto than the bill itself.

[ProudDad]

78. You're right

that fucking groppensteroidenfuhrer WILL veto it again.

We must concentrate our efforts on HR676 in the House of Representatives and its analogue in the Senate...

[calteacherguy]

63. Farenheit 911 was gifted propaganda? nt

[Skittles]

64. WTF are you talking about ?

gibberish

[CountAllVotes]

13. Yep!

It is definitely a big slap in the face for she gave up and sold out; just another worthless cronie IMO. :mad:

[youngdem]

18. Hillary is a fucking Repuke Lite DINO

And the only reason she is popular is that she is married to a great former President.

She sold out, plain and simple. She has been bought and paid for by the Health Care lobby, because they feared her, so now they own her.

She is a huge fucking disappointment in my house, as this reality is sinking in to the women in the home who were so looking forward to a great first female president....now she just looks like Karen Hughes with a smile and a bleach job.

Voted for the Iraq War, is the second largest recipient of Health Care lobbying dollars, had to be dragged kicking and screaming to favor withdrawal, for the Patriot Act, and favored a federal law banning flag burning (but 'courageously' opposed a constitutional amendment).

She disgusts me. We don't need 'Dems' like her, we need REAL, progressive Dems, not Repuke-lite DINO's seeking political capital by negotiating away America's values with the American Taliban.

[durrrty libby]

22. People like you only help her. Everyone knows she did not vote for the war

You are now considered the "looney left" Media reports, because of people like you,

Hillary is looking better to the average American


"American Taliban." haha, I love this.Really, I do. You are the mirror image of the freeps

[youngdem]

28. Really, she didn't vote for the war, huh?

You might wanna check up on that.

[durrrty libby]

33. Ok I ask the American Talliban, just for you

[stevietheman]

29. She effectively voted for it, and everyone knows that.

And not only that, she STRONGLY DEFENDED her position at the time, and even supported the war effort for a long time before turning her position around somewhat.

Get real.

[Clovis Sangrail]

30. o.0

Hilary most certainly DID vote to allow chimpy to wage a bullshit war against Iraq.

You can say she thought he would use better judgement (which is, in itself, terrible "judgement") but her vote is a matter of record.

[durrrty libby]

31. Sorry, you are all wet and misinformed, or your hate just blinds you

[Clovis Sangrail]

35. you should really look this up

Hilary voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution in 2002
You may not consider this "voting for the war", as I and many others do, but how she voted is a matter of record.

Don't take my word for it... and don't take Hilary's.
... wait ... even Hilary acknowledges she voted for it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she is not sorry she voted for a resolution authorizing President Bush to take military action in Iraq

[JVS]

32. Um, she did vote for war. Edwards did too. And shame on both of them for it

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

37. It's a natural reaction to being stunned by your spouting of total bullshit

Welcome to ignore, I have better things to do than read opinions of someone unable to remember the IWR.

[durrrty libby]

43. um er um um eh I remember it honey, but it was boosh who lied us into it

The ignorant loony left have convenient memory collapse

when it comes to that fact.

[SOS]

60. "Fact" "memory lapse" ...not quite

The "ignorant looney left" are among the few who actually read the IWR.

Let's look at the law:

SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS.

The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the
President to--
(1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security
Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq
and encourages him in those efforts; and
(2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security
Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay,
evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies
with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

There were NO CONDITIONS. The Congress merely "supported the efforts" to enforce UNSC resolutions. It's empty, meaningless rhetoric.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) Authorization.--The President is authorized to use the Armed
Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and
appropriate in order to--
(1) defend the national security of the United States
against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.

Bush is given 100% sole authority to determine whether to invade and whether the non-existent "efforts" had met with success.

(b) Presidential Determination.--In connection with the exercise of
the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President
shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible,
but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make
available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the
President pro tempore of the Senate HIS DETERMINATION that--
(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or
other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately
protect the national security of the United States against the
continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to
enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.

They gave Bush total power as to whether to invade Iraq. Levin amendment defeated. (Clinton also voted against Levin amendment)

Senator Byrd was right. It was a blank check.

[ProudDad]

69. The liberal "loony left" -- We were right

from the beginning and were in the streets with 10 million of our brothers and sisters around the world trying to keep the pukes AND THE Dems from starting a war in Iraq...

Talk about memory lapses -- Pot, meet kettle...

[SOS]

76. Kind of amusing really

Our resident IWR expert has referred to those of us who correctly opposed the invasion of Iraq with these terms:

looney left
all wet and misinformed
your hate just blinds you
bobble heads
stinking shit
hateful illogical lunatics
stupid
liars
idiotic tortured logic
stupid and ignorant

Yet when presented with the text of the law....silence.

:rofl:

[SaveElmer]

27. Wow....it's like all the "progressives" at DU puked at once...

And out came this post!!!

[durrrty libby]

34. Quick...someone order them a triple double exorcism

Not to mention all these bobble heads have not even seen the movie yet

Very, very disturbing

[durrrty libby]

44. It wasn't puke. It was a steaming pile of their stinking shit

[ProudDad]

70. Ah, durrrrrrrrty

that last post so contributed to the discussion.

Very close to alert bait...

[Warpy]

21. Hillary Clinton's plan was a rotten plan

Word has it that she originally intended to propose a single payer system, but was persuaded (by Bill Clinton? By the insurance giants? We don't know) to devise some sort of plan by which the insurance giants could be persuaded to cover sick people.

After she worked with these insurance guys for MONTHS, we ended up with Hillarycare, a plan that would have covered us all but which encouraged insurance companies to deny care through managed care. Apparently they all had second thoughts because they could barely wait to start attacking it before it was released. The thought of covering people like me, uninsurable for 20 years, was too much for the poor delicate things.

I sincerely hope Senator Clinton has learned the correct lesson from this exercise in futility: the more we bend over backwards for corporations, the less they will give us in return and the more they will demand.

I hope she has learned that her first instinct, to go with single payer, was the correct one. I hope she has learned, despite their lavish bribes, er, political contributions, that the insurance giants are run by scum, are not to be trusted, and have no place in a sane health care system.

[Tellurian]

40. So What? That was Then...10yrs ago, This IS Now!!!!

[durrrty libby]

42. "rotten" is a huge exaggeration . She was the only one that even tried

and she wasn't even an elected official

The hateful illogical lunatics can kiss my ass.

[Warpy]

46. I worked in healthcare

and saw what adopting the managed care concept started to do to people.

It was a rotten, rotten plan.

[durrrty libby]

48. And you blame Hillary for it? That is just stupid and a lie

[Warpy]

49. Please read the post and try to understand it.

Thank you.

[durrrty libby]

50. I understand perfectly well.

People who hate Hillary, blame her for the war and for failed health care

It is stupid and ignorant.

I'm sick of their idiotic tortured logic. The end!

[Warpy]

45. What lesson did she learn?

She hadn't told us. She's only told us she bears the scars.

[ProudDad]

71. Ok, fair enough, let's look at Hillary's "plan"

"The key is to modernize our health care infrastructure and demand a better return on our investment."

I guess bush gave her that line of gibberish -- it might be all he remembered from Harvard B School.

"Under the plan, a "guarantee-issue" system would allow anyone to join an insurance plan and would bar insurers from carving out benefits or charging higher rates to people with health problems."

"In the Senate, Hillary has continued her work to expand access to health insurance to all Americans."

Nothing like shoveling more money at the Health Insurance Mafia...

This would cause folks who currently have health insurance to pay higher premiums and does NOTHING about folks who can't afford health insurance AT ANY PRICE...

"The plan also calls for some medical malpractice reforms, including a program that would provide liability protections for physicians who disclose medical errors to patients and offer to enter into negotiations for fair compensation."

Ah, how republican of her -- "tort reform" -- Brilliant...



Is there another site with her "PLAN" on it -- there ain't shit here:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare/

[Hekate]

53. Had there been any sense of bipartisanship in the Gingrich Congress,it could've been fixed.But no...

Instead, the Republicans, marching in lockstep, beat her senseless with it and henceforth smeared and demonized her.

At Least Hillary Tried.

Hekate

[ProudDad]

72. The "Hillary" plan in '93

was an obscenity.

It was a convoluted mess designed to preserve the for profit health insurance mafia -- the same group that were major contributors to Bill's campaigns.

I thought it was crap back then. I knew that it was inevitable that it would lose.

You do remember that it was the Dems who voted it down, don't you? They were in charge in '93...

Hil's Health Insurance Industry Subsidy Plan was arguably one of the causes of the repuke "revolution" in '94...

[Hieronymus]

23. Damn, I had no idea she was getting that kind of money from

the health care industry.
Kucinich has the only real solution to health care...no insurance companies.

[malikstein]

24. The truth hurts.

Clinton II is all for feeding health insurance companies, not for providing health care to humans.

[Tellurian]

39. Ah, yes, the sycophantic Left,

when have they ever gotten off their asses to build a new coalition of electable candidates?

Demonstrations? Oh, yeah, they go for that...

But when have they ever made an effort to add to the Democratic infrastructure.
All they've done is mirror the Right and becomes those they Hate most!

[durrrty libby]

47. Exactly. They are everything I loathe about the pukes.

[Tellurian]

51. Yes, the first to criticize; the last to offer solutions ...

[ProudDad]

80. Self Delete

Duplicate

[ProudDad]

81. WHERE'S HER PLAN?????

There's NOTHING here but hot air and bullshit!!!

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare /

Does anyone know where her plan is????

[eridani]

57. What about organizing OneCareNow in CA--

--and getting single payer through both houses of the state legislature?

[ProudDad]

73. Ah, the far right fascist wing of the "democrat" party

can always be counted on to counter good ideas from the left with insults.

Every good idea the Democrats have ever enacted into law came from the Socialist/Progressive left you love to demonize.

But, You're welcome anyway. We'll keep the good ideas coming.

You just keep shooting them down until you enact them into law. We don't mind.

[ProudDad]

79. WHERE'S HER PLAN?????

Where's Her Plan??????!!!!!

There's NOTHING here but hot air and bullshit!!!

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare /

Does anyone know where her plan is????

[Cameron27]

52. I'll wait to see the movie myself before

making any conclusions about it. Everything has to be taken in context.

[TeamJordan23]

59. Where is Hillary's healthcare plan? nt

[ProudDad]

65. Say it ain't so, Hil!!!

"There were audible gasps from the overwhelmingly liberal audience when the film pointed out that Sen. Clinton got nearly a million dollars from the health care lobby, making her the second-highest recipient of donations (behind former GOP Sen. Rick Santorum!) from the very industry that Moore demonizes."

Strange bedfellows, eh?

[unkachuck]

66. I knew it....

>>> Moore told the Sleuth in the lobby of the theater after the premiere that movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, a personal friend and supporter of the Clintons whose company financed Sicko, "begged" him to remove a key scene exposing Hillary as the second-highest recipient of campaign donations from the health care industry.

"I said, 'No, Harvey. I gotta do the right thing.' He understood."

Moore said he didn't know whether the Clintons asked Weinstein to make the call. <<<

....I told you Mike was great guy and a man of integrity....honest too....

[ProudDad]

74. Where's Her Plan??????!!!!!

There's NOTHING here but hot air and bullshit!!!

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare/

Does anyone know where her plan is????

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

75. Dollar Billary

Thanks Mike.

[ProudDad]

82. Gee, can you hear the crickets?

Nothing but silence from the pro-Hillary zealots who are so quick to insult but don't seem to have an answer to my simple question: "Where is her health care plan?"