Want to know how to completely dismantle the HRC machine...

[Labors of Hercules]

With one 5 second announcement?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. her flunking the bar, her cheating clients, her "timesheet" scandal, her

claiming to be one of the top ten trial lawyers in the country, when at that time, she had NEVER APPEARED BEFORE A JURY for a trial?

ignore those things. Forget those inconvenient facts. and hundreds more just like them.
No, Hillary is a media creation. A creation in the sense that rather than practice law and hone talents, she practiced PR, Spin, hired publicists, and stood proudly on her hubby the gov's coat-tails.

To have a person of substance and experience stand up would be the most horrific event for Team Hillary. Which reminds me that Team Hillary's approach ot packaging, spinning and presentation reminds me of Team Bush. In the worst possible way.

[Hart2008]

10. Her representing clients before Bill's political appointees...

Jerry Brown brought this up way back in '92 and it has never been refuted.

Hillary's success in her legal career came from representing clients in front of judge's and other political appointees of Bill, i.e., people who were all politically interconnected. That is how she made her money as a lawyer.

Now that is not illegal, but it is sleazy as can be.

When confronted about the political cronyism issue, she made her infamous comment that she didn't want to stay home and bake cookies. So she has never addressed the political cronyism involved in her success as a lawyer in Arkansas.

[mzteris]

23. Jerry Brown who ran against Bill

in the primaries? you don't think he was just making stuff up for political gain, do you? naaaaaaaahhhhhhh......

[Hart2008]

28. The story came from the Washington Post. Liberal Democrat Jerry Brown cited the story in a debate.

"A Washington Post report scrutinized the Rose law firm's representation of various corporate clients - including Madison - in front of state regulators appointed by Gov. Clinton. The article also reported: "One of Rose's most lucrative clients is the state government."
Hours after the Post story broke, in a Chicago debate that was the most combative of the campaign, Brown accused Gov. Clinton of "funneling money to his wife's law firm for state business." Clinton called it a "lying accusation."

Ed. Jerry Brown said Clinton's "wife's law firm is representing clients before state ... agencies, his appointees." Clinton replied that the Rose Law Firm was "the oldest law firm in America, west of the Mississippi," and that Brown ought to be "ashamed" of himself "for jumping on my wife."

The next day, Hillary Clinton defended her husband with a feminist appeal that would be prominently quoted for days and years to come: "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas. But what I decided to do was pursue my profession."
...
Although Brown's criticism was aimed at Bill, not Hillary, newspapers in the next two days were full of macho posturing from Gov. Clinton: "If somebody jumps on my wife, I'm going to jump them back." Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen even mocked Brown for being a bachelor: "One thing he knows nothing about - zilch, nada, zero - is marriage."

Within a week, Whitewater was virtually dead as a campaign issue. With press attention shifting to depictions of Brown as a character assassin - and discussions of "cookies" and "teas" - the issue of candidate Clinton's links to corporate power in Little Rock disappeared.
A key reason elite media dropped the story in 1992 was that the only newsmaker pushing it was Jerry Brown - an anti-establishment candidate whom journalists were more prone to deride than quote."

http://www.jeffcohen.org/docs/mbeat19940330.html

Jerry Brown was the Dennis Kucinich of the '92 campaign. He spoke about corruption in Washington D.C. and the need to reform Congress, while Bill Clinton was milking the system for money and endorsements. (Brown ran to "take back America from the confederacy of corruption, careerism, and campaign consulting in Washington".) Clinton's failure to show any leadership on the issues Brown raised came home to roost in the '94 midterm elections when the Democrats lost both houses of Congress, including the House for the first time in 40 years. Unlike other presidents who suffered midterm losses, the Democrats under Clinton would never regain either house in his second term.

Jerry Brown has been in politics for a very long time. Brown Brown was elected California Secretary of State in 1970, before becoming California governor, state party chairman, and presently California Attorney General. He has quite a resume:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Brown#Legal_career_and_entrance_into_politics

Jerry Brown may be many things, but he is not known "to make things up" about his political opponents.

While most of the discussion is now about Hillary's vote for the IWR, in a general election, now that Hillary is a candidate for president and not the spouse of candidate, her previous manipulative non-answer to allegations of cronyism in her success as a lawyer may very well come back to haunt her.

[mzteris]

29. WHITEWATER???

:rofl:

roflmao!

I think that's been pretty thoroughly debunked, don't you?

[Hart2008]

30. So cronyism is OK as long as it isn't illegal?

:eyes:
Right so as long as it wasn't illegal, it was OK?
:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

The allegation of Bill "funneling money to his wife's law firm for state business" was more than just Whitewater.

Starr never debunked the cronyism allegation, since it was never really denied, nor was it illegal.

If Laura Bush was doing the same thing people here would be howling.

It is possible for a woman to have a legal career without having a husband who is the state governor sending state contracts to her lawfirm.

[mzteris]

32. My question would be:

did the law firm handle State business before she worked there and/or before Bill was elected?

Do you know?

I suspect the answer is "yes", though I admittedly don't know.

[Hart2008]

40. My question is: Were the Rose firm clients also donating to Bill's election campaign fund?

"Many of its clients were corporations, including General Motors,…the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation, and Tyson Foods."

I suspect the answer is yes, though it has never been seriously reported.

Again, that is probably not illegal, but highly unethical.

Ethics is avoiding the appearance of impropriety.

In a state as big as Arkansas, surely there was a competent law firm to handle state representation that didn't have the governor's wife as a partner representing large corporations before her husband's political appointees? It comes across as cronyism in my book, and Hillary's non-answer to the matter back in '92 didn't address the issue of the appropriacy of how she was managing her professional life.

No, I don't know the exact amount of business sent to Hillary's law firm before, during, and after Bill was governor of Arkansas. That information should exist somewhere.

[mzteris]

42. Hillary & Rose

Midwest Today, June 1994
THE REAL HILLARY CLINTON
". . . Starting when he was elected Attorney General in 1976, a year after they married, Hillary's choices about work were increasingly proscribed by the realities of being married to an important politician in a small, conservative state. She couldn't take a public-interest job lest she come into conflict with him, and even as a private attorney, she had to be careful about conflicts of interest or becoming involved in controversial cases. (Some would later charge she wasn't careful enough). Her earnings were limited as well. While some partners at the Rose law firm where she worked were making up to $300,000 a year, Hillary usually kept within the $70,000 to $100,000 range. Her resume resembles a sort of patchwork quilt, stitched from the remnants left over after Bill Clinton's career had been cut out." http://www.midtod.com/highlights/hillary.phtml

[mzteris]

43. More on Rose

http://www.roselawfirm.com/about/history_03.asp


click on the bottom for Founding years and pre-"modern" period.

[Hart2008]

31. From 1985-92 Hillary's lawfirm received $240,000 in Arkansas state contracts.

"Conflict-of-interest questions frequently arose because the Rose organization was so ingrained in the Arkansas establishment…The firm specialized in…business litigation…Many of its clients were corporations, including General Motors,…the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation, and Tyson Foods.
(Downtown 12/22/93)

"Between 1985 and 1992, the Clinton Administration in Arkansas, coincidentally, dished out over $240,000 in Arkansas government contracts to the Rose corporate law firm that employed Hillary Clinton, according to the April 27, 1992 issue of U.S. News & World Report. Of the $240,000 in state contracts Hillary Clinton’s law firm received from her husband’s administration, $135,000 came from Arkansas state agencies and $109,000 came from Arkansas state bond counseling work. Although Bill Clinton’s economic program in Arkansas enabled his family to accumulate over $1 million in assets during the 1980s, in 1991 only seven other states had a greater percentage of people living in poverty than had Arkansas. (Downtown 9/23/92) Only four other states had a lower average income than Arkansas in 1989, when Arkansas’s average income was over $5,000 less than the U.S. national average and nearly $10,000 less than the average income in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. (Downtown 3/25/92)"

http://bfeldman68.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-hillary-clinton-got-her-law-firm.html

Sure looks like Jerry Brown was right on this one!

[SoxFan]

19. "Flunking the bar"?!?!?

Oh, come on.

I'm a hard-core Obama supporter, and even I don't see Hillary's performance on a bar exam as anything close to a legitimate issue.

Plenty of lawyers botched the bar exam on the first try. I'm one of them. I made it on my second attempt. Am I unfit for office?

What about these bar-flunkers:

California attorney general Jerry Brown
Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa
Chicago mayor Rich Daley
Former NYC mayor Ed Koch
Kathleen Sullivan, former dean of Stanford University Law School
Renowned trial lawyer and author Gerry Spence

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. and kennedy,

and others

OK, we all agree that she is no rocket scientist. She makes up for it in drive, energy and preparation. Unfortunately, the folks that are doing the driving, preparation and providing her with energy are DLC turds who have more in common with big corpa and AIPAC.

[mzteris]

24. she passed the Arkansas bar on the first try -

it was only the DC one she flunked (along with JFK, of course.)

[election_2004]

21. "Hillary is a media creation"

Never have truer words been spoken on DU.

She's not a "neocon Repuke."

She's not a "angry Commi-feminist."

She's a master of opportunistic and sleazy politics, aided by a corrupt, ratings-hungry MSM that seeks to exacerbate the divide amongst Americans.

[mzteris]

22. Lots of people fail the bar.

JFK failed it. TWICE.

A whole heck of a lot of SMART people "fail" it initially:

". . . Throughout history, many governors, members of Congress, mayors, attorneys general, military generals, law school professors, and judges have failed the bar exam as first-time test takers.

Hillary Clinton and the late John F. Kennedy, Jr., were two of the more famous politicos who were exposed as having failed their first bar exams--JFK, Jr., failed his second time around, as well--and Kathleen Sullivan, Stanford Law School's former dean and a renowned attorney in her own right, was one of more than 4,000 examinees who did not pass the California Bar Exam.. ."

http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/index.php?id=1279


There is NO shame in not passing the bar the first time.


QUESTION: could you provide a link or more substantial "quote" to the claim of her being one of the "top ten trial lawyers in the country". I'm not finding anything like that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I can't find it. I'd like to pin it down. Was this 5 yo, 10, 20, 30 years ago? In what context, etc.?


I did find this in WIKI, though: ". . . she was named the first female partner at Rose Law Firm in 1979 and was named one of the hundred most influential lawyers in America in 1988 and 1991"



edit nearly immediately to remove snarky title/leadin.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

26. @ the ABA convention the year before Bill announced.

I was part of the law practice management div. There was a big push by our group to break glass ceilings and to infect lawfirms with technology (computers)
I gave a speech one day. Hillary was on the next. She was introduced as one of the top ten trial attorneys in the country.

except, no one (and there were dozens of top trial attys right there) I mean NO ONE had ever heard of her.
She was rude, opinionated, obnoxious, and unbelievably unfriendly. She dictated how it would be, rather than agree to what we had designed and planned for months beforehand.

And, she was not particularly smart sounding. jsut arrogant. Reminds me of who I see today as the female candidate for the dems. Prepared? yes. worthy of being president. hopefully never in my lifetime.

[mzteris]

27. so you heard.

No hard copy anywhere? Link, maybe?

Are you SURE she wasn't introduced as that she could become one of the top ten trial lawyers - or that she was one of the top ten lawyers. Maybe the announcer mispoke?

She wasn't a trial attorney at that point and had decided not to be. So it seems to me as if something wasn't stated correctly.


As for her "demeanor" - have you read her history? Not everyone is a "warm fuzzy". So what? Look what "warm & fuzzy" got us for the last 8 years.

Me? I'll take intelligent and efficient over stupid and "friendly" anyday.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. how can I convince you?

I was there.
for three days, WE WERE TOLD, in person, in handouts, and more, ONE OF THE TOP TEN TRIAL ATTORNEYS IN THE COUNTRY. I repeat. TOP TEN TRIAL ATTYS.

Now, I try a lot of cases. Do you have a clue what it means to be a trial attorney, compared to the thousands who never step into a courtroom? Most lawyers, patent, in house counsel, tax, hell, even a lot of PI attys don't try cases.
I was a pup at that time, no more than 20 trials under my belt, the longest maybe 4 weeks. The other folks there were far more experienced. And none of us, NONE OF US, ever heard of her.

it was all spin, all pr, all bullshit. Just like her.

you may not like what I say, but then again, many folks were offended by her at that meeting. Because she was simply offensive.

[mzteris]

34. still got a copy of that handout?

:D

It doesn't sound right - to me - because she made the decision to NOT be a trial attorney when she MOVED to ARK from what I've read. :shrug:

Long long ago and far far away. A non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Efficient people aren't necessarily likeable. The likeable ones aren't necessarily efficient (for instance - GWB).

Give me efficient of likeable anyday.

And btw - from what I gather - to the people who do KNOW her and interact with her on a regular basis - she IS VERY likeable. (Again, unlike GWB.)

[mzteris]

36. NO ONE had ever heard of her?

Really?

********

In 1969, Senator Clinton entered Yale Law School, where she served on the Board of Editors of Yale Law Review and Social Action, interned with children’s advocate Marian Wright Edelman, and met Bill Clinton. After graduation, Senator Clinton advised the Children’s Defense Fund in Cambridge and joined the impeachment inquiry staff advising the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives. She was one of three women on a 43-lawyer staff. She then "followed her heart to Arkansas," where her husband began his political career.

After marrying in 1975, the Clintons joined the faculty of the University of Arkansas Law School. There Senator Clinton taught criminal law, ran a legal services clinic, and did prison projects and advocacy work. She joined the Rose Law Firm as one of its first women associates in 1976. In 1978, President Carter appointed her to the board of the Legal Services Corporation and Bill Clinton became governor of Arkansas. Their daughter, Chelsea, was born in 1980.

Senator Clinton served as Arkansas’ first working First Lady for 12 years, balancing family, law and public service. In 1987, she became the first chair of the American Bar Association Commission on Women in the Profession. As chair, she submitted a report with recommendations that urged ABA leadership and members to "work to overcome the barriers, including practices, attitudes and discriminatory treatment that prevent the full integration and participation of women in all aspects of the profession." The recommendations became ABA policy.

HRC bio - ABA

*****

Are you sure NO ONE had "ever heard of her"?

******

NYT 2 Women Take Stage And Stir Bar Meeting
By DAVID MARGOLICK,
Published: August 10, 1992

". . . The joint appearance of the two women (Hillary & Anita HILl) brought unprecedented passion and frenzy to the normally staid bar proceedings

. . . Mrs. Clinton was received warmly, if not ecstatically, when Cory M. Amron, a Washington lawyer and her successor on the women's commission, said she "may very well be the next First Woman of the United States."

. . . Among those caught up in the wave was George E. Bushnell Jr. of Detroit, a past chairman of the bar group's house of delegates . . . Of Mrs. Clinton, he said: "She is just a damn fine professional. On more than one occasion I've heard statements to the effect that 'I have no idea who Bill Clinton is or what he's like, but if he's Hillary Clinton's husband and she puts up with him he's got to be pretty great.'



*******

NYT THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: The Vice President; Quayle Attacks Bar Association for Honoring Hill
By KEVIN SACK,
Published: August 12, 1992

". . . Mr. Quayle, who is himself a lawyer, pointed to Hillary Clinton's speech on Sunday at the American Bar Association convention in nearby San Francisco, where Professor Hill was given an award.

. . . "And who did they choose to present this award to liberalism's heroine (Anita Hill) for the 1990's? None other than her fellow lawyer, Mrs. Hillary Clinton," he added. Hisses swept through the hotel meeting room at the mention of Mrs. Clinton. Kind Words for Hill

. . . Quayle was inaccurate in saying that Mrs. Clinton presented the award to Professor Hill. The wife of the Democratic Presidential nominee merely spoke at the luncheon, where the bar association presented six women with its Women Lawyers of Achievement Award.

But Mrs. Clinton, who is the immediate past chairwoman of association's commission on women, did have kind words for the professor. She said in her speech that Ms. Hill "transformed consciousness and changed history with her courageous testimony" about Judge Thomas during the hearings on his nomination to be a Supreme Court Justice. " http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE4DA103DF931A2575BC0A964958260&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fOrganizations%2fA%2fAmerican%20Bar%20Association




edit to add one I left off:

"She was named one of the nation's top 100 lawyers by the National Law Review in 1988 and 1991."
http://www.gale.com/free_resources/whm/bio/clinton_h.htm


I'ma thinking a whole lot of people had heard of her. But maybe they were just running in different circles than the one you were in, eh?

[mzteris]

37. NEVER APPEARED BEFORE A JURY?

Are you sure?


"Hillary practiced law while Bill became attorney general and then governor of Arkansas, and during this time, through her publications, public advocacies, and court cases, she gained a national reputation for her contributions to issues of women's and children's rights, and public education. In 1991,The National Law Journal named her one of the 100 most powerful lawyers in America.

A&E Biography http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=9251306


*****

So she had COURT CASES. We know that much. OK - maybe they were non-jury trials? All of them?

****

oh and this bit - ". . . taught law at the University of Arkansas School of Law, in Fayetteville. In addition to conducting her criminal law courses, (Hillary) Clinton ran the school's legal aid clinic."

You think maybe she just did "administrative work" at the legal aid clinic? Or maybe she actually represented some? I dunno, just asking.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. That's A Pretty Thought!

[Tellurian]

7. Um, yeah, A Pretty Petty Thought!

:rofl:

[emilyg]

3. No i don't.

[ellisonz]

4. I'm gonna have to K & R.

[RufusTFirefly]

5. I'm a Dean/Kucinich kind of voter, but...

... I could definitely get behind a Gore/Obama ticket!
The former won the Presidency but was deprived of it.
The latter shows great promise but is probably premature in aiming for the top spot. (only three years in the Senate so far.)

[flyarm]

6. Gore / anybody ..for me!!! i am waiting!! i wrote him a letter today!! begging ...

RUN AL RUN!!

fly

[Tellurian]

8. Another dismantling thought..

Gore would NEVER pick the scandal ridden Obama-

Like, he needs a headache! :hi:

[mckeown1128]

15. scandal ridden Obama?!?

from a Hillary supporter no less!!! :spray: lol no...way... lol

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Tellurian]

17. The increasing weight of Obama's Albatross..

FYI-

The best racehorse in the world will lose a race when carrying too much weight.

read and refresh:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3331119

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3332818

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3316428

This is no laughing matter. The Rezko Trial will begin just before the Primary.

[mckeown1128]

18. You make me sick...

All three of those are BS.

The first one is a hit book. You as a Clinton supporter should know those are Bullsh$t. Clinton has had like 50 hit books made about her. What is the claim about Obama anyway....that he has an ambitious plan to be president. ooohhh... so what?

The second one lists that Obama is giving back most of the money he received in campaign donations from Rezko. It also states that he excepted money from people who have been mentioned in Resko's indictment... Which could be anyone including witnesses or the judge... see...it's bull.

The third one about political favors to Resko is the stinkiest of them all. Obama was supporting a community project for housing the elderly.... what a monster... who cares if Resko's firm was involved... this was years before Resko was investigated...

Try defending the filth slung against your candidate instead of trying to pile sh%t on my candidate... just because he is running against her majesty.

[Tellurian]

44. Apparently, not sick enough..

Those are legitimate links and represent one hell of a nuclear cloud your looking at in the distance.

If you want to dismiss them, dismiss them at your own peril.

If I were you, I'd be researching and doing my best to debunk those stories.

[assclown_bush]

9. Gore failed to energize the country in 2000...

what makes you think that a re~run will be any more exciting? I doubt I could cast my vote for him, he had his chance and he blew it.


I do like his stand on environmental issues though.

[Milo_Bloom]

11. Remember, he won in 2000.

and that was before he found his political voice.

[assclown_bush]

13. I know he "won" in 2000, but it was a hollow victory...

at best. If he had been able to carry his home state Tennessee there would not have been any need for the court to decide the election and hand it to bush. I guess I resent him for that. He f*cked up, when he needed to do ALL he could to win.

[garybeck]

12. Gore / Clark is unbeatable

Clark is a better runningmate because he has more experience, he really has no negatives..

[Robeson]

16. I agree....

...that really is an unbeatable ticket. And very easy to sell with the fence sitters of the mushy middle.

[mckeown1128]

14. That is my dream ticket....

It is not going to happen because Gore will stay out of the race. But it would be AWSOME:patriot:

[MonkeyFunk]

25. Candidates don't announce running-mates

until after they've secured the nomination.

And Gore will NOT be given the nomination on a platter if he does run (and I don't think he will).

[AtomicKitten]

35. I fully support a Gore/Obama ticket

... and can do that without advocating dismantling the campaign of any other Democrat as that will prove to be a really bad idea if the proposed target gets the nod.

[PBass]

38. A Gore/Clinton, Gore/Edwards, Gore/Clark are also good with me (NT)

[BenDavid]

39. All the lies mentioned

in other posts are all that, lies. If there was anything to any of this I am sure that Starr would have loved nothing more then charging HRC with something. The reason he did not becasue there was no there, there. We got too many folks in this forum that buys into all the right wing garbage that is put out. Hell, it amazes me that most of them have not come to the conclusion that saddam was behind 9 11.....
You want to bring charges against HRC, then you come forth with your charges and I will debuke any and all of them.
I do thank you
Ben David

[wyldwolf]

41. This isn't fantasy football in case you haven't noticed.