We can't give up on the Dems

[CTLawGuy]

I know people are frustrated over Iraq, but there is another funding bill coming due in September, and we have a big opportunity to end this war.

The reality is we are not ending this war without Republican help.

If we don't pass a bill, Bush will find money from other places, and keep the troops there anyway, but grossly underfunded,
if we pass a bill that is not veto-proof, then Bush will just reject it.
The only way to control Bush is to pass a bill with a veto proof majority.

As time goes by, Rs, facing 75% disapproval of the war, get closer to election time, and the more worried they get.

They might be loyal to Bush, but not loyal enough to his "legacy" to sacrifice their careers.

Right now they are hoping against hope the "surge" will turn things around and save them from the nightmare choice upcoming. In September, the surge will be a failure, and the R caucus will begin to fracture.

All we need is about 60 out of 200 in the house, and 18 of 49 in the Senate (Lieberman excluded from the dem caucus for this calculation) to get a veto-proof majority.

What we can't do is fracture the Democratic party because of our justified anger over this three month funding bill. There was no possible way short of buying a large boat, sailing to iraq, kidnapping the troops and sailing them home, that they were coming home before September under any scenario. Even if Bush had signed the timetable bill, troops would have still died this summer.

We gotta both keep the pressure up and stay behind our leaders. We have to make it clear that we expect them to do better in September and we are behind them. that means no leaving the party.

We own this party. They don't own us, we own them and we have to make sure they do what we want next time around.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. They don't own us, that's for sure

but I'm seriously wondering if anyone except the corporations own them--the courageous true statesmen who have always been against this war excepted, as always.

[blm]

21. That's how I see it - but there are still more Dem good guys than there will ever be GOP ones

so I'm with darboy on this - I'm sticking to the Dem party and working to GROW the number of anti-corruption, open government lawmakers who represent that wing of the party. I think Gore's book is a great opportunity to do this, because if Gore can move from the side of secrecy and privilege in the last 6 years, then I expect more will folow.

Now is not the time to give up and I intend to use the primary race to push that point, whether secrecy and privilege Dems like it or not.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[BobRossi]

2. The Dems in Washington gave up on us.

It is they the created the fissure in the party. Just a bunch of lilly livered chicken shits.

[elocs]

5. In Washington there are basically Republicans and Democrats.

Democrats may not measure up to our expectations, but who are you going to go to for help? The Republicans? That is laughable. The war is only funded for another 4 months, then there will be another vote. Even if the Democrats had voted to not fund the war this time we would still have troops in Iraq in September. It's not like they would all get on a plane and come home next week. The truth is that not funding the war at this time would not help much since Bush would simply blame the Democrats for everything that went wrong in Iraq and the MSM would eat it up. As it stands now, there is quite likely to be more support from Republicans to defund the war in September.

[pat_k]

12. Primary challengers for those who are unable. . .

. . .to extract their heads from the beltway sphincter -- and the groupthink, denial, and wrong-headed "conventional wisdom" that pervades that insular world.

Starting with Nancy "off the table" Pelosi.

They may not impeach for the future of the nation, but they'll do it to protect their own butts.

And it doesn't take many people in a given district to find a credible challenger and issue the threat: "Impeach or find yourself in a serious fight for your political life against X."

[opihimoimoi]

19. If anyone gave up on the citizens..its them Republicans who supported Bush for 6 friggen yrs

They caved to his "Decisions" for 6 long years....they trusted his sorry ass even as he displayed major signs of being dysfunctional.

They lied for him, cheated for him, stole for him....they did America wrong and worse, they hurt America....The real Blame belongs on the Pubs

[demnan]

3. I appreciate your ability to find hope

I may not agree with everything you say but I respect you for trying to find a hopeful solution.

That said, I really think the we need to impeach Bush to end the war and to end other atrocities that have been done to our Constitution.

Don't become disillusioned if the Democrats don't measure up, but come join us in the impeachment movement and the movement to give us our constitution back, should your efforts fail.

[BobRossi]

4. You are right about impeachment..

But who will do it? The same cowards that are kissing his feet? Can impeachment be initiated by the common citizen?

[pat_k]

11. Threaten their political futures with serious primary challengers. . .

. . .and the cowards will run for the impeachment door.

They may not impeach for the future of the nation, but they'll do it to protect their own butts.

And it doesn't take many people in a given district to find a credible challenger and issue the threat.

[CTLawGuy]

6. impeachment may be necessary

to bring the troops home, but again, we need the Rs help for that.

[pat_k]

10. We'll get the "R's help" by impeaching and forcing them to. . .

. . .to answer very real, very grave, charges.

When Republicans are forced to respond to real charges, there will be some (perhaps many) who find themselves unable to stand and fight for GWB's absolute power to nullify the bills they pass with a stroke of his pen (or her pen -- Unitary Executive Hillary anyone??).

We are likely to get plenty of help from the "R's" when they are forced to choose between fighting for the pariah in chief or putting Pelosi in the WH. May are likely to find that choice so repugnant that they do everything in their power to force Bush and Cheney to spare them by resigning and handing the keys to somebody acceptable to the Democratic House and Senate (President Danforth?).

These are people who are already scrambling over each other to "distance" themselves from Bush. It is time for the Democratic leadership to lead. (And leading does not mean finding a parade and stepping in front of it.)

[pat_k]

9. Impeachment isn't a fallback; it is the only front that counts.

It may not be the "diplomatic" point to make, but if we're going to make impeachment a reality, we can't talk around reality.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=985531&mesg_id=988176">Wanna end the occupation? Forget Iraq. Fight to impeach. . .

[calimary]

18. All I can say is ABSOLUTELY!!! IMPEACHMENT is not just AN option,

it's the ONLY option at this point.

[pat_k]

7. Impeachment is the only "opportunity to end the war."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=985531&mesg_id=988176">Wanna end the occupation? Forget Iraq. Fight to impeach. . .

[Totally Committed]

8. We didn't give up on them.

They gave up on us. They betrayed us. Just my opinion, but there it is.

TC

[CTLawGuy]

14. so then what do you do?

war ain't gonna end because you sulk about it...

[dajoki]

13. "the surge will be a failure"...

but we all know they will spin the hell out of it so that it appears that it went exactly as planned. The question is, how many American people will fall for it?

[libodem]

15. maybe it's just darkest before the dawn

We need to rally up and hunker in together under our big tent. The World needs help. I think we can do best if we have something to 'SAVE', 'PROTECT', and 'DEFEND'. WE need to get up on our back legs like a challenged Mother Bear, defending her cubs. It's about time we quit wimping around like a dog with it's tail between it's legs. After you have been cornered, it's fight or flight, baby, and I think it's time we came out boxing!!!!!

[Lord Helmet]

16. well they're our only ticket out

With a bigger majority in Congress (veto proof) and a Democratic president in 2008, a new day begins.

My family is really behind Al Gore running and I think he would give everybody hope and make things right after what happened in 2000. It could be really healing.

[reprobate]

17. It's not just the war. Don't forget the secret free trade deal they made with the repugs

in the White House.

Now that's abandoning everything the Democratic party stood for!

And all for the chance to kneel before the corporate pigs and prostitute themselves for campaign funds.

Frankly, I'm sick of it. For six years now I've been waiting for the party leadership to once more represent Democrats. But no, they prefer to represent their corporate masters. Last year we all went to work and put them in charge on congress. We thought "Finally, our party has some power."

What does it mean to have power and not use it? What do you call leaders who do that?

Well, I call them traitors to their constituents. Make excuses for them if you want. I've been doing it for six years now. I won't anymore.

[Doctor_J]

20. Many won't, but many will

Their complete abandonment of the war, impeachment, and overall repudiation of the extreme right-wing agenda will make it hard for many to get excited about giving time and money next year. All they had to do was stand up to Smirk, and it would have been a cakewalk into the WH next year. Now I expect we'll live with President Rudy and a GOP Congress for the next 8 years.