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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:05 PM
Original message
Wes Clark wants accountability....so do I
Edited on Wed May-16-07 09:08 PM by CarolNYC
Wes Clark spoke at The School of Advanced International Studies at The Johns Hopkins University today. The topic was "Legitimacy: First Task for America's Security".

I like this guys take on the talk:

The guy is impressive. Compared to each of the mainstream presidential candidates, Clark is clear, forceful, and full of real ideas formed by real experience. Unfortunately, he has yet to throw his hat into the race.

(snip)

His eyebrow-raising three-point plan:

1. Change America's image abroad (no more torture, blacksite, extrajudicial kidnapping, unjustified wars, a return to diplomacy)
2. Change the debate at home (I forgot this part, but it was boring anyway).
AND,
3. ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THOSE WHO GOT US INTO THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Point three is the juiciest. Clarks wants to open investigations into the decision-making process behind the Iraq war policy, Abu Ghraib, domestic wiretapping, black sites, and the whole, disgusting Bush foreign policy enterprise, and hold the feet of those responsible to the fire.

Amen, brother. I'm not easily impressed by political rhetoric, but General Clark actually had some goosebumps going. Run Wesley Run.

http://kungpaochitlins.blogspot.com/2007/05/wesley-clar...


Accountability. Its a good thing.

Audio of the speech is here: http://www.sais-jhu.edu /

I liked the Weve got to do a lot less threatening and a lot more listening and reasoning and rethinking line, his horror at the "shock and awe" terminology and the statement that we wouldn't count Iraqi casualties and so much more.

I also liked how SAIS, answering a challenge from Biden, is planning to hold a real debate on Iraq on June 5th or 6th with at least Biden, Richardson and Dodd (whove accepted the invitation to appear), the other Presidential candidates (if they accept the invitation thats been extended) and hopefully Clark (who they said was more than invited). I hope there's video of it, even if the 'top tiers' decline to participate.

I do so want Wes to run but I suppose if he feels he'd be able to do more good away from the dogfight that is the primaries, he may choose not to get into it after all....We'll see, I guess. I'm keeping my fingers crossed though....That little comment about making it to the Iraq debate that you can hear at the beginning of the audio file is kind of promising, if you're looking for signs and all.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is Clark still in it?
I tend to ignore primaries until closer to the vote, but all I hear lately is Edwards vs. Clinton vs. Obama vs. Gore.
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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. he has not declared, yet
neither has gore
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. His official line
when asked about '08, is "I haven't said I won't run" but right now he's busy trying to get us out of this Iraq mess as best as can possibly be done as well as trying to stop us from starting another war, this time with Iran. He's working with VoteVets on those great ads they're putting out and advising members of Congress, among other things. I just hope he's also working to figure out how he can make a successful run at the Dem nominiation this time around. As I said, we'll see. I trust him to do what he thinks is right.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Downloading now
Since I suffer from dial-up, waiting to hear this speech could mean waiting for a long time. But I've heard that Wes Clark made a lot of sense today.

Yes, we do have to bring all of the sins of the past 6 years into the light. If we fail to have a complete reckoning with our history, then we risk committing it again. But beyond that, we must bring the country to an understanding of all that has gone terribly wrong if we are to heal all that divides us. Imagine if bush's solid 30% of true believers are permitted to fester among us and spread more lies. Only the truth will do.

Thanks Carol.
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Texas_Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Transcript, photos and audio
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R n/t
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm in the middle of listening to it,
Edited on Thu May-17-07 12:43 AM by seasonedblue
and the breath of his knowledge is amazing. He gets right to the point, clearly and simply.

"You can trace these sacrifices (coups etc.) to international law, and we got away with it for the most part. By in large we escaped with our integrity intact. But not this time. Not with Iraq."

K&R

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. I will listen to the speech later on today......
but the reviews shows it to be fascinating. An original thinker is definitely what Wes Clark is. He originates lines that we hear after he has spoken them over and over again out of other's mouths.

I'd love the General to get in.......cause IF it has to be a Southern White Guy that gets the nomination on the Dem side (since it is claimed that women and minorities aren't "electable" by most Edwards supporters) I would prefer that it was one with National Security Chops who didn't vote for the IWR and who has proven that he loves country more than self. And I'd prefer that a candidate for the nomination not win by default.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Listening now
Very, very good.

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/media/may07/wesleyclark051607.m...

Heavy on torture. NEVER acceptable as a matter of policy.

"Hitherfore" - Wes Clark Word of the Day
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. "Hitherfore"...
Word of the Day :)

It is a great speech, isn't it? I've still got to finish the Q&A session. I do like as well that he acknowledged the not so very honorable things the US has done and condoned through the years, even before this nightmare Administration.

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Frenchie
He talks about partitioning, the Biden plan.
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yeah, interesting....
I would so love to have Wes participate in that Iraq debate. I would imagine at least the audio will be made available afterwards. I guess Edwards and Hillary have not responded to the invite yet? Obama's a maybe, they said....

How cool will that be, though? A real debate, not just a bunch of soundbites, about a real issue facing us and that the next President will have to deal with.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Diplomacy
"It's like Jazz."


:D

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nice pic



The transcript is up:

http://securingamerica.com/node/2425

And finally, we're not going to restore the legitimacy we seek without a full inquiry into how we as Americans could've gone so wrong. How could it have happened? Why did it happen? And who must he held accountable for abusing the good name and authority of the United States of America. This includes not only addressing the administration's misuse of intelligence in the run up to the war in Iraq, but also into who and how we misled our Armed Forces and our intelligence agencies into believing that our international obligations under the Geneva Convention and the 1996 Treatment on the Prevention of Torture- Treaty of the Prevention of Torture, weren't somehow legally binding or applicable.


Tell it, General!
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. This is an incredibly detailed and brilliant
Edited on Thu May-17-07 05:19 PM by seasonedblue
speech so I'm glad to see the transcript's up. I just started with the Q & A, and the first one is interesting:

Robert Guttman snip: Um, it was a very impressive speech and I just wondered whats the best way to go forward with your plans? Do youwould you like to announce that youre thinking about running for president? Is it in your mind for 2008? Have you rejected it or is it a possibility?

General Wesley Clark: Well, specifically I havent said I wont. I havent said that I wont run, but I do hope that people on both sides of the political aisle will consider this idea of the fundamentals of American security.

You cannot win the war on terror simply by killing people. If you chase down and arrest, or kill, every single identified member of al Qaedaevery sympathizer, you still wont succeed in this campaign because there are far more potential recruits than there are actual enemies. And our actions, unless theyre accompanied by understanding of America, by belief in this countrys legitimacy, of what were trying to do and the methods were using, we simply create more resistance to what were doing. So I think its that principle that wed like to proceed, Bob. Im open, Id like to consult with anybody whos running for any office in the land and provide these ideas in great detail. I think they should be at the heart of American discourse today because this election in 2008 is not going to be about national security in a limited sense.

I know there are going to be people talking about the armys in trouble, what about the defense budget and how does that compare with energy independence but its going to be about who we are as Americans, whether we live up to our values. Because if we live up to what people expect of us, by our own Constitution, we will achieve the security we seek. And if we dont, well just be any other country out there with a big army and navy.



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