Is marital infidelity with younger subordinates a symptom of

[GumboYaYa]

the corruption inside the beltway? In asking that question, I am not making any judgment on the validity of the charges against John Kerry.

I ask because it seems to me that their is a culture of marital infidelity with younger subordinates in D.C., Gary Condit, Bob Livingston, Newt Gingrich, Bob Packwood, Bill Clinton....the list goes on and on.

One common denominator of all these gentlemen (using that word loosely) is that their paramours where younger women on their staffs. Is this culture indicative of a sense of entitlement among D.C. politicians?

Personally, I find it despicable that a person in a position of power would use that position to pursue illicit affairs with younger staff members. If these guys worked for me they would be fired the first time I heard of that conduct. Do politicians believe the ordinary rules of conduct do not apply to them? Moreover, should they? Does this attitude extend to other aspects of their conduct?

Based on the answers to those questions, is it time to change that culture?

[returnable]

1. Leave the beltway out of it.

It's a symptom of being a middle-aged man :hi:

[GumboYaYa]

5. How many fifty plus year old men do you know

or know of who are having affairs with 23 year olds?

I know that middle-aged men have affairs. I'm talking about the fact that these men seem to abuse their position of power to take advantage of younger employees. That is not allowed in most of corporate America. If it does occur it is frequently a firing offense.

[seventhson]

16. I worked in Congress

it is considered a perc by the members of Congress

I saw a lot of it.

[mrgorth]

63. One could say that the young women

are using their youth to take advantage of these men in power. Its a 2 way street. Put a piece of candy in front of a kid and he'll almost always eat it.

[pezcore64]

78. lol

a few actually...sadly enuff.

lol.

Its actually a very natural thing to desire those who are considerably younger than you. its nature. its your need to reproduce. ive read books about how secretly we are all pedophiles because of our instinctive sex drive and need to reproduce.


But yeah, old men always seem to go after incrediably young women.
My father had an affair with a 22 year old woman when he was 43.

[Snivi Yllom]

76. the problem is not the beltway

it's chastity belts..or the lack thereof.

[eileen_d]

2. It's a symptom of men who are in positions of power.

I doubt it is limited to DC "culture" and/or corrupted politicians.

And before I get flamed, I don't mean to imply that ALL men in positions of power have flings with interns.

[ShimokitaJer]

4. Absolutely!

The temptation to take advantage of a position of power is very strong. This is precisely why sexual harassment allegations need to be taken so seriously.

Of course, it also demands that men in positions of power tread VERY carefully if they want to maintain those positions of power. If knowledge of this affair was as widespread as it's starting to seem, Kerry was far too careless.

[eileen_d]

8. "knowledge of this affair was... widespread"

Proof?

[ShimokitaJer]

23. Interesting use of ellipses

What I said was "If knowledge of this affair was as widespread as it's starting to seem"
To be honest, you should have also included ellipses after the word "widespread," but I'm sure your modified quote said exactly what you wanted it to say.

I am referring to the possibility that Lehane, Clark, Gore, and all the various informants who allowed this story to make it onto Drudge's desk have known about the story for years. These accounts are numerous though they are, as yet, unsubstantiated, which is why I used the term "seem," notably absent from your supposed quote.

[eileen_d]

34. I believe you are splitting hairs

I used elipsis because of the character limit for thread subject lines.

It SEEMS obvious to me from your tone that you are choosing to believe that these allegations against Kerry are coming from numerous sources, and that there is widespread knowledge about them. I do not believe that, and that is why I requested proof. I hereby withdraw my request.

If you want to continue to speculate on numerous, unsubstantiated things that seem to be possible, feel free.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HereSince1628]

20. it's also a symptom of those attracted to "power and wealth"

A cursory look at human behavior suggests that in cultures all over the planet woman are generally attracted to older men. With a an's age comes correlates of power and wealth.

I expect that men are also attracted to wealthy and powerful women, although I haven't any studies to back that up, my trips through the check-out expose me to many supportive published anecdotes.

So maybe the phenomenon is a part of human nature and includes men and women.

Sexual "misbehavior" gets a playing particularly when it appears that it violates other established trusts involving sanctioned power/authority...such as priest/parishoner; counselor/client; teacher-student; mentor/mentee;

There are also issues where third parties can claim harm when sexual relationships violate other outstanding trusts--such as one's wedding vows, vows to celibacy, etc.

The words intern and adultery have been used in the current flap (rightly or wrongly) because they play on commonly held concepts of the boundaries of unacceptable sexual behavior.

[maddezmom]

3. it happens outside the beltway as well

in big corporations, in the police dept., in the mom and pop hardware store, in hospitals....... everywhere.

[GumboYaYa]

7. But, generally, when itis discovered in those contexts

it is not tolerated. PLus, does it occur with the frequency it seems to occur with politicians.

To me this seems like another form of sexual harassment.

[maddezmom]

13. ya think

I know a few corp execs that are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage with younger women. And a few drs that ended up married to younger drs or nurses with whom they worked. Harassment and consensual relationships are different.

[JI7]

22. me too

it happens just as often as in politics, but since congress members are public figures we just hear of it more often.i know i often hear about some rich guy who ended up getting divorced and marrying the woman he was cheating on first wife with. also, many girls who have affairs with them want to do it. i'm 25, was 19 when the whole clinton lewinsky thing broke. and i got tired of hearing the crap about how those poor girls were taken advantage of. but these same fools have no problem with the chimp sending girls (and boys) like jessica lynch into war and getting them killed. ok to go die in a war , but too young and naive to make decisions about sex?

[CWebster]

6. the patriarchy,baby...

the story is as old as the hills.

[BR_Parkway]

Change the culture? As in - defend the sanctity of marriage?

Seriously, many staffers are probably "infatuated" with those they are working under. Just look at the fierce loyalty that each of the Dem candidates has inspired here on the boards to realize this isn't an exeption. Or the number of coeds who wind up in bed with a professor?

[mikehiggins]

9. Interns and congress

A looooonnnnngggg time ago a high school friend of mine got the chance to serve as a Senate page (hint: he interned in Goldwater's office before Barry ran against LBJ).

When he came back home we talked a lot about politics and stuff. The "stuff" was the more titillating. According to him interns, both boys and girls (that's how teens were referred to back then) were constantly getting hit on by congresscritters, 99.99% of whom were male.

Sex with young interns was sort of one of the perks of the job for a lot of these guys. If found out the intern was bounced out of DC but the congresscritter was protected.

Well, that at least has changed somewhat.

Is it possible Kerry nailed some young thing? Sure. Is it likely? Most likely not.

Has anyone proved it? Nope.

Just more Drudge Sludge, same as the claim about Clark cluing in the press corps.

[slappypan]

10. And what about these young women?

Obviously these men consider it just another perk of the important job, like a special parking space or eating at the Congeressional cafeteria. It reflects arrogance and a sense of entitlement. But where do all these young women come from who are so eager to have affairs with married men two and three ttimes there age? Do they consider it some sort of rite of passage? Do they do it to advance their careers? What kind of parents raised these young women? Maybe I am naive, or just didn't come from the world of the elite and ambitious, but when I was in my early twenties none of my friends would have had the slightest interest in such a relationship.

[Jacobin]

11. These aren't rapes. Power is an aphrodesiac

Hormones rage.
People are people.

If this Kerry thing proves to be true, that he is a womanizer, I'll never forgive the SOB. After what we've been through, he knows or should know that the price of running for prez these days is keeping your dick in your pants, regardless of the temptations.

[ewagner]

19. Well said

At this point all we can do is wait and see where, if anywhere, this story goes. I'm reserving my opinion until the facts are known but I agree that anybody running for the presidency should know the price.

[saltpoint]

12. None of the gentlemen you name --

-- had or were alleged to have had relations with anyone other than a legal adult.

If it is your impression that any laws were broken, and you have information to support the claims, you should contact law enforcement immediately.

Short of that, I think you should refrain from moral judgments of others' sexual activity.

[GumboYaYa]

15. I'm not making a moral judgment on their sexual actvity.

I'm asking whether their sexual activity is a symptom of a deeper character flaw than an active libido. I don't care who sleeps with whom, but I do care if the congresspeope have a sense of entitlement that impacts the way they make substantive policy decisions. All I am asking is whether the fact that so many of these fellows have relationships with younger subordinates reflects that sense of entitlement. Some may say it is indicative of them being middle-aged men with activie libidos. I think it is more than that.

[saltpoint]

17. I hear your point, but I'm suggesting that --

-- men and women must make their own sexual borders. Their partners were adult women, capable of saying 'no.' If "entitlement" is a pressure to submit to sexual activity, those women were quite free to pursue sexual harrassment charges. Some did (in the Packwood case).

[GumboYaYa]

21. I agree; I am not inetersted in the dynamic that

causes young women to actually sleep with this shrivelled up old lizards. I am interested in the dynamic that makes these old men think that they are entitled to even ask. If they feel they are entitled to sexual favors, do they also feel they are entitled to economic favors from others. Is the sexual activity indicative of pervasive corruption in D.C.?

[JI7]

31. guys without money and power do it also

well, some women find those "shriveled up old lizards" attractive. and many guys who don't have that type of power try to "get some" also. i remember in high school i had a friend who looked about 25 and a bunch of way older guys would always try to come on to her. many of these guys weren't in any powerful position or didn't have much money. it happens often. but since congress people and other politicians are public officials it becomes news usually when they do it.

[saltpoint]

35. No it isn't. Your inside-the-beltway-all-is-wicked theory --

-- is unsupported by the facts. As other posters here have noted, human flaws occur across all demograhic strata.

Falwell, Robertson and their ilk use this Beltway Morality theory and it stirs the far right to vote Republican. Let's not do it too.

[GumboYaYa]

36. I know that it happens everywhere.

I guess, the first point is that it does not excuse the behavior. IMO using your power as someone's employer to entice them to have sex with you is wrong and it is wrong in business or politics or anywhere else. In fact even approaching an employee concerning sex is wrong IMO. It creates a difficult position for the employee that is not appropriate for the work place.

That is not a judgment about sex. It is a judgment about what is appropriate workplace conduct. I find it hard to believe that so many people are defending what to me is clear sexual harassment in many cases. As liberals do we really want to defend Bob Packwood with the "boys will be boys" defense.

Additionally, there seems to be a greater concentration of this activity in D.C. I admit that a lot of that perception for me is based on stories of staffers I know and not personal experience.

[saltpoint]

40. Do you not acknowledge that men and women who --

-- feel themselves sexually harassed can, if they choose to, seek legal remedy? In the Middle Ages, that was not the case; from Packwood forward, it is the case. That addresses their grievance with clout in a public courtroom.

I agree with other posters here that power relationships involving sexual favors are not limited to inside-the-beltway. They are correct to suggest that these relationships go on in hardware stores in Utah and retail shops in Connecticut. Lapses of judgment do not have a zip code.

If you know of a data source which demonstrates that bad sexual behavior is more prevalent in DC than elsewhere, post it. If not, I think you need to back off this part of your theory.

[GumboYaYa]

44. Well. I lisetd several prominent cases, and then admitted

that beyond those, I had no first hand knowledge. I don't think you can accuse me of being disingenuous.

If it makes it more palatable, instead of generalizing about D.C., I'll limit my dicsussion to specific examples.

Are specific politicians or business people who use their position of power to gain sexual favors from subordinates evidencing a sense of entitlement? and if so, is that appropriate?

[saltpoint]

53. Perhaps it would be more effective if --

-- you reconsidered your examples' behavior in context with history generally. No one has suggested that sex-by-entitlement is "right." If it isn't right, it probably isn't appropriate.

So why bring it up now, unless you wanted to either reinforce the perception that Kerry behaved wrongfully, or, that there is some general malaise afflicting DC culture?

There are legal remedies in place to protect interns and others in similar relationships. If that was untrue in the past, it is true now. That covers your concern for others' well-being. Harassment laws address the issue of sex-by-entitlement in all 50 states & DC.

Paul, a New Testament writer I usually can't stand because he's a moralist prick, at LEAST has the wit to say that "Love does not rejoice at wrong." Even IF Beltway politicans were more prone to sexual wrongdoing than others elsewhere, why judge them? What does anyone gain from that?

[GumboYaYa]

56. True, I can't argue with the notion that judgmentalism

without more is hollow and fruitless.

You ignore the last part of my post. Is it time to do something about it? If our politicians do have a sense of entitlement that is inappropriate (and I mean more than sexual entitlement), should we shrug our shoulders and say "thus it is" or should we get new politicians?

[saltpoint]

64. Tell me from which planet you will recruit "new --

--politicians" who will not be just as human as the ones we have now.

Tell me how you eradicate sexual subtext from ANY relationship in which adults interact.

As an overwhelming majority of responses to your post have suggested, you don't have a case.

[GumboYaYa]

65. It's not sex that we need to get rid of; it's the sense of

entitlement. I am not against sex or trying to moralize about people's sex lives. I asked whether sexual advances towards younger subordinates by politicans are evidence of a sense of entitlement. I did unfairly limit this to D.C. politicans; the entitlement theory applies equally to the leaders of corporations and other positions of power.

[saltpoint]

66. The U.S. Press asked Nobel Prize Lauriat Gabriel --

-- Garcia Marquez what he thought of those who sought to drive President Clinton from office on moral grounds relating to the Lewinsky case.

"They are shit-eaters," he said.

I understand your question, GumboYaYa. It's the motive I am questioning.

[GumboYaYa]

67. I agree with Marquez....the difference is that Clinton was already

elected. I'm asking these questions now because we should consider them before we elect someone.

My motive is no secret to me or you and I'm not ashamed to admit it. If the allegations about Kerry prove true and I am making no assumption that they are, I think that it should raise serious questions about his character, not because he was having sex, but because it implies an inappropriate sense of entitlement. That worries me about how he (IF TRUE AND I"M NOT SAYING IT IS) and others who engage in similar conduct look at other aspects of their duties.

Additionally, I do belive that the conduct in question is a form of harassment and I'm amazed that there are so many people defending it.

<ON EDIT> If the lady in question was not a subordinate of Kerry's I take back all of that. This only applies as far as I'm concerned in the employee/employer relationship. If people want to cheat on their wives, that's their business and not mine.

[librechik]

14. certainly--there is no honor among them

the whole thing is very depressing, and it is not confined to politicians. AT the very least, Clinton's presidency is tarnished forever, but he was not the only one--Papa Bush had his girlefriend Jennifer living in the WH with him, but no one in the press said a word--

I don't get it, how can they risk everything over that? I don't get it, but I'm not a man.

If I were in public service I would delay those urges until I wasn't in service. How hard can it be? Don't they know how to masturbate? It seems it's not really about sexual gratification, it's more about having power over others, and that is sickening.

[WiseMen]

18. MoveOn, MoveOn, MoveOn, MoveOn: Stop Recycling the Baseless Slime!!

[CWebster]

24. Move on, let's just get past this...

[ShimokitaJer]

26. Don't look at the man behind the curtain!!!!

nt

[charlie]

28. Who let the Wisebot loose?

Bring back the Grovelbot!

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressivebydesign]

43. "Stop crying in your teacups!" N/T

[kenny blankenship]

81. no what he said was

stop crying in your D cups!

[JasonBerry]

25. Bravo!

"Personally, I find it despicable that a person in a position of power would use that position to pursue illicit affairs with younger staff members."

You just hit the key word there. POWER. That is exactly why I find this kind of behavior reprehensible. To use a position of authority to woo young women is simply wrong - period - though I would say especially so when married. Why so many here at DU give it a pass is bewildering.

[JI7]

33. some WANT to have sex with them

it's exciting to have a powerful politician.

[Cheswick2.0]

55. it has to do with years of defending Clinton I think

but Clinton was President and well loved. I don't think a lot of other politicians have that kind of aura. They are not as easily defended.
Funny thing is the farther I get away from those years the more I feel disapointed Clinton ever put us in that position. I really loved Clinton and I still do even with all his flaws and positions I disagreed with.

[bigtree]

27. Slander-mongers

"Slander-mongers and those who listen to slander, if I had my way, would all be strung up, the talkers by the tongue, the listeners by the ears."
-Plautus (254–184 B.C.), Roman playwright. Callipho, in Pseudolus, act 1, sc. 5, l. 427-30.

[GumboYaYa]

32. Truth is the absolute defense to slander.

Point to one untruthful statement that I made and I will apologize right now and ask to have this thread deleted.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Shanty Oilish]

85. Cover your ears, dearie

Do bots have ears?

[JackRiddler]

37. The terms themselves create the problem.

Nice of you to sit in judgment!

"Adultery." "Cheating." "Betrayal."

The terms make the crime. What's wrong with consenting adults having sex? It's nobody's goddamn business!

Does it occur to anyone that the young woman accepting the advances of an old man might herself be a sovereign subject, making her own decisions? An adult?!

Oh, no, she's of necessity a child-like idiot who can only be taken advantage of. She hasn't gotten enough abstinence and marital sanctity training. She's a victim, that's all she can be, and the man who makes the advances is a villain, that's all he can be.

Meanwhile, back to the real world...

If you can show evidence of harrassment (meaning sexual advances forced on an unwilling person) or abuse of power (i.e., extortion, blackmail or punishment), then there is a real problem.

Sorry, I am not buying the "implicit" abuse of power argument that any older man making advances to a younger woman is automatically in the wrong. Look around you, you will see quite a few lower-status men, even older ones, landing in bed with women of all ages, too. (Now that you've had a look, leave them alone.)

Newsflash. People like to have sex.

Newsflash. Not all sexual relations are defined by power or the abuse thereof.

Newsflash. Where power is involved, they are still adults and it may well be an aphrodisiac.

How do you intend to cure human nature? People get attracted to each other, they intentionally attract each other, they make advances, and it is not for you to judge them for it, or to set up the acceptable age criteria.

They may be shrivelled up lizards to you, but a young woman might be attracted to them anyway! What do you think is the right solution? Exile her to Africa? Hound her for interviews? Or just leave them both alone, already?

GET A LIFE, AMERICANS. GROW UP.

[GumboYaYa]

38. It's not about sex, it's about sexual harassment.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

Maybe all these young women are power hungry little sluts who willingly are sleeping their way to the top. Maybe not. I tend to believe the latter. You're free to believe the former.

[JackRiddler]

71. I don't believe either...

You should go by evidence, not prejudice.

But in general you should let private life be!

[Cheswick2.0]

57. sorry, but it just plain sleazy when you cheat on your wife with a girl

your daughters age. I don't care who is doing it or why or if she wants to. I grew up with "anything goes". But it is not a good way to live life. People really do get hurt.

[JackRiddler]

70. "Cheat"

is a value judgement.

It also implies you know what kind of arrangement Theresa & Kerry have.

And what if you're right? What if it always leads to emotional wreckage?

What does that have to do with the presidency? The issues? How Kerry or another voted on this or that?

NOTHING.

You think a "faithful" candidate is more competent for the JOB?

Idiocy!

[DemNoir]

39. I don't know

But I do believe the endless discussion of the sex lives of politicians is an indicator of intense sexual frustration and longing among those that just cant let the topic go.

[GumboYaYa]

45. LOL, touche...

a subtle ad hominem attack, but I can live with that. I grew up in New Orleans. Trust me, there is not a sexually repressed bone in my body (no pun intended). It has nothing to do with sex. It has everything to do with people in power using that power to gain favor over employees. Sex is just great in my book. Sexcual harassment is not.

[progressivebydesign]

41. It's been studied. It's a power thing.. for both sides. N/T

[redqueen]

42. I don't know where you live

but here in Texas, I've seen that kind of behavior from all levels of society. Being a secretary SUCKS sometimes. But maybe it's just a Texas thing, where men feel they're entitled to harass younger women in the workplace.

Anyway, it's not a DC thing. No way.


Oh, and just so you know, the reason I didn't file harassment charges is because I was raised in an abusive home. I found that out later during therapy, that my upbringing caused me to see the situation as one I had caused, so although I was offended and upset, I never even considered telling anyone.

[yellowcanine]

46. "innocent" questions ... actually an underhanded effort to spread rumor?

I think we have a winner. Read rule #8 for this forum.

8. If you make a factual assertion about a candidate that is not generally accepted to be true, you must provide a link to a reputable source to back up your claim. Allegedly "innocent" questions which are actually an underhanded effort to spread rumors are not allowed. If you really need to know the answer to your question, try Google.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. we need to google to find out what people's opinions are about affairs?

How do you google public opinion? Better question, how do you google my opinion. I think we are still allowed to have them here at DU. I would hope we are allowed to have differing opinions.

[yellowcanine]

60. Proper for the Primary 2004 Discussion? Moderator needs to decide this.

There are many discussion groups on DU. Each has its own set of rules. The rules for this group seem to prohibit this kind of "Lets ask a question so we can talk about the rumor" thread. But I am sure the moderator will weigh in on this.

[Mairead]

47. No, it's a symbol of wealthy-middle-aged-males' sense of entitlement

And a lack of perception on their part that other people might have feelings.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. there has always been that sense of entitlement amoung powerful men

and they can have little bits of petty power and still indulge. I was a victim of this in college. I worked in the dinning room kitchen as my work study. My married (and rather handsome) boss tried to get me to have an affair with him. Luckily I was seeing someone at the time who I knew would beat the crap out of the guy and for that reason I felt safe enough to say no.

[GumboYaYa]

52. I googled "Is Bob Packwood a slime-ball"

and it said yes.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. LOL, I guess you really can google opinions

:7

[MoonRiver]

50. Strange as this may sound,

it's actually symptomatic of the human sex drive. I know that's almost unbelievable for some to contemplate, but birds do it, bees do it, and even you and mees do it! :eyes:

[GumboYaYa]

54. So people should be allowed to go about imposing their sexual

desires on their employees and subordinates because "bees do it"?

[MoonRiver]

59. Do you really think that sexual affairs are limited to the "beltway" lol?

What are you going to do, institute a morality police such as exists in Saudi Arabia? It's none of our business if consenting adults have sex. These women, and yes some men, are not minors. The woman some so desperately want to believe had an affair with Kerry probably wasn't even a subordinate. She was a reporter for God's sake.

I have a very happy monogamous marriage, but I don't chose to judge anybody for behavior that is between him/her and his/her spouse and/or lover. If a "young" person involved with some beltway insider wants to press sexual harassment charges that's another matter. I stand by his/her right to seek redress if harmed. But this Kerry rumor is spewing forth from rightwing sources and Dems supporting somebody other than Kerry. Talk about smelly.

[GumboYaYa]

61. Again, it's not about sex, it's about sexual harassment.

How many times do I have to say that?

[MoonRiver]

62. And I'll say it AGAIN, if those young people file sexual harassment suits

its another matter. I don't remember Monica or Shandra doing any such thing. Anybody I forgot about? I'm sure if you have some dirt it will fly.

[Northwind]

51. In Kerry's case, there is also the emasculation issue to consider

Remember that Kerry is basically a gold-digger. He's made a career out of marrying rich women. Subconciously, he would resent them for being the "provider" and usurping his traditional male role. This combined with the "perks of power" make the infedelity charges very believable.

[JVS]

68. Sex with subordinates is despicable

[MoonRiver]

69. Assuming for a second that the rumor is correct,

is a reporter a subordinate?

[JackRiddler]

72. Why not just ban it altogether?

One part of a relationship is ALWAYS subordinate in some way to another.

Can anyone conceive of people actually choosing to have sex?

Is rape your only paradigm?

[bhunt70]

73. we shouldnt always assume sex in the workplace is sexual harassment...

It's not always the case. It happens more than one would like of course but just because two people connect, be it only in a sexual way or more than that, doesn't always point towards sexual harassment.

I don't think its actually corruption inside the beltway, but just a symptom of power. There are people who are attracted to powerful people, and there are those who know this and take advantage of it.

[Colin Ex]

74. Did people stop having sex or something?

I mean, people fucking outside of marriage isn't something new, right?

[Rich Hunt]

84. seriously

...it's not worth it to raise this issue. I don't vote for politicians for their morals.

I'd rather just see this go away.

[GumboYaYa]

86. It isn't about sex. People want to say anyone who questions

the character of a person who uses a position of authority to gain sexual favors as some prudish witch hunt. It is not that at all. My question is if someone uses a position of authority to gain sexual favors is that symptomatic of a personality that would use the same position to gain other favors. To me that is corruption. Have we become so callous that we expect our politicians to be corrupt and turn a blind eye to it?

[Carolina]

77. NO but

power and position are aphrodesiacs. Thousands of young women and men flock to Washington's corridors of power all the time ... How to explain that even Henry Kissinger was once a sex symbol?!

I grew up in DC and lived there for forty years. I was a political junkie as a kid and wandered the halls of Congress with a like-minded friend much more freely than you can today. We loved the power and sense of history and we were always hoping to run into a much younger Ted Kennedy. :9

Remember to interpret in more ways than 1 the phrase: politics makes strange bedfellows. :evilgrin:

[Jen72]

79. Men in power have been having affairs from the beginning of time.

Look at the Bible, King Soloman, King David etc.
Kings,Queens,Presidents and Prime Ministers,princes, judges,
rich men and women have always had affairs.
If John Kerry did anything it is nothing new. His wife is a strong independent woman, with her own money, she could walk away if she wanted too.

[GumboYaYa]

80. I'm sorry, but the "boys will be boys" defense is not good

enough for me. Why are feminists not outraged over this issue?

[dawn]

82. It happens everywhere, and the girls are willing participants.

It happened at my last company. There were two women who were sleeping with alot of the top men. Everyone knew about it, but nothing was said. I don't understand what young woman see in married men twice their age. I guess power is a turn-on for them.

One of the women (a young PR girl) got pregnant with the CEO's baby. She was forced to leave the company. His wife supposedly stormed into a meeting and slapped the divorce papers in front of him, and stormed out. SHe went back to him, though. I don't know what happened to his mistress or the baby.

Needless to say I am glad to be out of there.

[GumboYaYa]

83. What is your opinion of the character of the men who did that?

I'm not being flip about this. I really want to know how you feel about these people.

[Shanty Oilish]

87. Ah, a cynical/realist/mature thread!

I'll play.
People cheat. Men cheat. One indicator is when they say it's nothing. (It was.) Powerful people cheat. Unpowerful people cheat to climb. Ordinary rules of conduct---these ARE the ordinary rules of conduct.

This isn't culture, it's nature.

[GumboYaYa]

88. Sorry, but those ARE NOT the ordinary rules of conduct for me.

It is not ordinary to use a position of power to gain sexual favors. In the employer/empoyee relationship that is sexual harassment. IMO a person of good character would not abuse that power in any circumstance. What I wonder is if they feel so at ease using their pwer to gain sexual advantage, do they wied their power the same way on other matters.