Obama calls for common sense new gun control: Stop the mentally ill from gun buys

[draft_mario_cuomo]

==By NEDRA PICKLER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WASHINGTON -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Thursday that laws should be strengthened to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns.

Cho Seung-Hui, the gunman who shot 32 people at Virginia Tech Monday before killing himself, had a history of mental health problems but still was able to buy two guns that he used in the rampage.

"If we know that he got mental health services, then there should be some way of preventing somebody like that from buying any kind of weapon," Obama said in an interview on "The Steve Harvey Morning Show," syndicated on radio stations nationwide.

Federal law prohibits the mentally ill from purchasing guns, but most states have privacy laws barring such information from being shared with law enforcement. Some advocates for the mentally ill and gun-rights groups have opposed legislation in recent years that would include the information in computerized record-keeping.==


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1131AP_Virginia_Tech_Obama.html

[Mojambo]

1. No guns for crazy people! I think even the knobs at the NRA could get on board with that. n/t

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Sadly, I doubt the NRA will support even this

Obama deserves courage for showing leadership in standing up to the NRA. This is a seemingly easy issue but the NRA will be aggressive against any restrictions on gun ownership.

[-..__...]

10. I'm not so sure about that.

The NRA doesn't quite come out and say they're for it or against it, but judging from the tone and some of the provisions that would restore the RKBA under certain circumstances, it certainly sounds like they don't have a problem with a background check that includes mental health history...


H.R. 297, the “NICS Improvement Act of 2007”


This bill, cosponsored by Reps. John Dingell (D-Mich.), Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) and others, would improve availability of criminal history and other records for conducting background checks on firearm buyers. It also addresses concerns over past implementation actions by the FBI, prohibits the FBI from charging a “user fee” for background checks on gun buyers, and directs the General Accounting Office to audit and report to the Congress on past expenditures for NICS record improvements.

Many of the problems encountered in recent legislative debates over gun control—especially the 1999 debate on gun show regulation—center on the inadequacy of NICS records. Inaccurate or incomplete records delay firearm purchases and result in wrongful denials of law-abiding buyers.

This bill would help fix those problems. It sets specific goals and timetables and details the records improvements that are required. Unfortunately, the language in the original Brady Act may have allowed the previous $200 million intended for this purpose to be spent on largely unrelated projects—an issue addressed by the GAO audit provision.

Importantly, H.R. 297 provides for the removal of disqualifying records on individuals who are no longer prohibited from possessing a firearm. For instance, if a person was at one time committed to a mental institution, but was then found not to have any mental illness, that record should be removed from instant check databases. Additionally, in non-mental health areas, NRA is aware of a number of cases where arrest or conviction records have been left on file even after charges were dropped or rights were restored.

Complete run-down here...

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=197&issue=018

[illinoisprogressive]

26. I think it's meant for those with serious problems. I think it's brave and time to have a discussio

and I am not offended by the proposal. I have inherited depression. Most of the family has it. Though none of us would ever want a gun, I do think this is meant for those meeting a certain criteria.
None of us were ever delussional or violent. But, all of my family are very open and have had treatment.
A person's therapist can tell if you are okay or a danger.

[HuckleB]

28. How does one's therapist do that?

[-..__...]

32. The thing I have a problem with...

is that mental health issues have too much of a gray area.

Where is the line drawn and/or established?

What criteria would prevent a person with psychological issues from owning a firearm?

It's one thing if a person has a violent/felonious criminal record.

It's another thing if a person has a had a bout of minor depression and sought treatment for it.

[Dr Fate]

4. Dont count on it- they have their excuses already lined up. n/t

n/t

[HuckleB]

13. "Crazy people..." Umm. Please educate yourself.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/MH/00076.html

[Dr Fate]

2. I'll bet more people agree with this than not. n/t

n/t

[ben_meyers]

3. Way to go out on a limb

No guns for crazy people! How about a great big national database with all the crazy peoples names?

[Mojorabbit]

7. Lovely idea

Anyone who has ever had a bout with depression can be in a huge national database which will ultimately be available to insurers and employers and credit agencies. Just lovely.

[yourout]

5. I own guns and would welcome gun controls.

If people have to meet qualifications to drive a car then ownership of a gun should also have requirements. At the bare minimum a back round check and gun safety certificate should be required.

[yourout]

6. Delete....dupe

[silverojo]

8. That's idiotic!

That would prohibit anyone MISDIAGNOSED with mental illness (like ADHD, etc.) from ever owning a firearm. Abused women, who so often suffer from depression and other mental illnesses, would be unable to arm themselves against their abuser!

What went wrong with Cho is that the two women who SHOULD have pressed charges failed to do so, which left him with a clean record. Those women deliberately opted NOT to be good citizens and protect other people from this guy. Their actions were cowardly, selfish, and ultimately resulted in 33 deaths. Cho could never have gotten guns, if they'd pressed charges.

The mentally ill have enough of a stigma to battle against. Laws like this will reinforce people's misunderstanding of mental illness, making people who have depression, bipolar disorder, and other ailments feel like second-class citizens.

Why should people with mental illness have to pay for the failures of those two college students, the university itself, and the police in that town? Put the blame where it belongs, Obama, and quit trying to make an entire part of society scapegoats!

[HuckleB]

11. Yes, this is a ludicrous proposal.

What it will lead to is gun owners who need mental health treatment choosing to avoid mental health treatment. That's not going to make us safer, in any way.

Obama should apologize for this ridiculous statement immediately.

[rsr1771]

15. ludicrous?

So if someone is psychotic and delusional, they should be able to walk into a gun store and buy a firearm? Even if they cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality?

I agree that just because a person has seen a psychiatrist doesn't mean they should be barred from gun ownership, but certainly some people are so mentally ill that they cannot be trusted with a handgun.

[HuckleB]

16. How are you going to determine this?

Who will keep the database? How will it be kept out of the hands of others? How do you protect privacy? How do you encourage people to get treatment when they need it, with such a proposal as this?

And what research gives us reason to believe that this would have any effect at all?

[rsr1771]

19. i would think...

that if a medical professional, like a psychiatrist, diagnosed a person after a personal examination with a severe mental illness, like schizophrenia, then that person should be prohibited from owning a firearm.

Otherwise you would, literally, allow every deranged psycho to own a gun.

[HuckleB]

21. So people with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia have no right to privacy?

Again, I must ask for actual research that would give us reason to believe that such a policy serves and actual purpose, other than to make everyone feel good.

[AJ9000]

37. Yes, a can of worms here if you think about it. Who exactly will be considered

mentally ill? What about privacy? Will people stop seeking treatment for fear of stigma/discrimination?

It's a knee-jerk position designed to score political points.

[AZBlue]

43. It's THEIR fault those people died???

You're way out of line there.

[Missy M]

9. Nothing profound about the approach..

and the problem is many, many people with mental illness never get help which means there is no history to look at.

[HuckleB]

12. But wait...

Many drugs used to treat other physical illnesses can have side effects that affect the brain, consciousness, etc... So, is Obama going to call for those people to have to refrain from purchasing guns as well?

[Donnachaidh]

14. slippery slope Obama

Exactly WHO defines Crazy?

I think Dick Cheney is crazy -- wanna go take HIS gun away from him?

[Eric J in MN]

17. Would someone diagnosed with any mental illness be barred for life...

...from owning a gun?

[HuckleB]

18. I don't think the follow-up questions were asked.

Though they should have been. We might have learned a lot about Obama, good or bad.

[ProudDad]

20. I'm always amazed at the pathology

of the pro-gun nuts in these threads. You just mention any kind of regulation or diminution of their "right" to buy any kind of ordinance they desire and they get ballistic (pun intended).

I've posted my humble suggestion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3225462

It's a win-win.

I used to own some guns. Once I "had" to pull one on some "intruders". I felt lousy after that one.

Another time, some folks came into my house and stole a couple of small items, a radio, etc. and I had access to loaded weapons. I determined that losing a couple of small items was preferable to killing people -- I then got rid of the stupid guns.

In the 40+ years since then there have been exactly ZERO occasions when I've felt a need for a stupid gun. I've lived in ghettos (there was a murder out front a year and a half ago), I've played music in bars, etc. No NEED!!! No NEED AT ALL!!!

It's when one walks around with a lousy attitude or a once in a million run of bad luck that gets folks in a position where they might "need" a weapon. Most never do!

[HuckleB]

23. So what?

So guns are an problem. I've never owned one, and I never intend to own one.

This idea does nothing but stigmatize mental illness, and make it more likely that gun owners will avoid treatment when the develop mental illness.

Is that so hard to understand?

[Solo_in_MD]

29. I am amazed at the pathology of the anti gun nits on these threads

You oppose any of their suggestions or dare to suggest any reason for private firearms and they go ballistic,

You "humble suggestion" is hogwash.

Your inability to deal with real life or phyisical confrontation is your problem. Do not attempt to project on the rest of us.

[TnDem]

42. You say....

You said in your post, "...Once I "had" to pull one on some "intruders". I felt lousy after that one..."

I want to know what in the HELL is wrong with people on this forum. Has 1960's pacifism intruded into your very being?

For shit sakes, why would you "feel lousy" when protecting yourself by scaring off someone that had intruded into your home?

Does anyone not see this as the further pussification of American society?

Opinions?

[Colobo]

22. Individuals with severe mental illnesses

like schizophrenia, paranoia, severe depression, etc should not have access to guns.

Obama is right on this one.

[HuckleB]

24. Why?

And what peer-reviewed evidence can you provide to back up your reason?

[Colobo]

25. My schizophrenic auntie

is all the "peer-reviewed" evidence I need to make my conclusion. After seeing how the life of a professional, independent woman became a living hell because of her condition, in which she felt everyone in the neighborhood had a plot against her, going to the extreme of confronting our neighbor about why she was "orchestrating" the efforts to destroy her life and then seeing her take a knife and stab herself in the stomach, I'm glad my auntie didn't have a gun with her, because had she had one, that terrible suicide attempt would have become a massacre. I think her husband, who had to run away from her because she was starting to hint she felt he was part of the big "conspiracy" and that she planned to "take action", would agree with my point of view.

I know that for many over here personal accounts mean much less than "peer-reviewed evidence", but those of us with first hand experience with mental health patients have some valid points to offer.

[HuckleB]

27. I have plenty of first-hand experience.

My brother killed himself with a gun. As did one of my best friends. And I must assess people for suicidality every day at work.

So, no anecdotes do not justify gutting the rights of the mentally ill without good reason, which means good (and, yes, peer-reviewed and repeated) evidence, no matter how controversial those rights may be, in general.

[Colobo]

31. I stick with my position, you stick with yours.

My aunt could have done something truly terrible had she had access to a gun at the peak of her mental crisis.

I want guns away from her... and people with the same problems she has.

[HuckleB]

33. In other words...

you don't care if the proposal does good or harm. You haven't even thought about the fact that gun owners will avoid mental health treatment at all costs. You want untreated mentally ill individuals with guns in your neighborhood? That's going to make us more safe?

Sorry, but this proposal has far too many flaws for anyone, who actually thinks it through, to support.

[Colobo]

35. You have your opinion, and I respect it.

I just happen to disagree.

[HuckleB]

36. Opinions aren't worth much, if they have no justifiable basis.

We're talking public policy here, not religious beliefs.

[aikoaiko]

30. I think its easier sad than done.

There are real issues of patient-therapist confidentiality. Therapists already have the obligation to report clients who are a probable danger to self or others, but it sounds like they would have to report that someone should not own a gun at a lower threshold of concern.

There's a good chance that the people who would need help wouldn't seek it because they don't want to lose their guns.

[HuckleB]

34. Apparently Obama's late on this one.

And it doesn't work.

Rules should have barred weapon purchase:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_weapons

[Eurobabe]

38. In a normal society, this would be the rule rather than the exception.

Good on OBAMA! :thumbsup:

[w4rma]

39. The enforcement needs to be strengthened, not the rules.

(except for a loophole in background checks that maybe should be closed)

Rules should have barred weapon purchase
By MATTHEW BARAKAT, Associated Press Writer 15 minutes ago

McLEAN, Va. - A judge's ruling on Cho Seung-Hui's mental health should have barred him from purchasing the handguns he used in the Virginia Tech massacre, according to federal regulations.

But it was unclear whether anybody had an obligation to inform federal authorities about Cho's mental status because of loopholes in the law that governs background checks.
…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_weapons

[Vinca]

40. Agreed, but how would a gun dealer necessarily know??

Unless we all want to open up our medical files so names can be run through a computer to catch the crazy people, it seems like an impossible thing to determine if the person buying the gun appears normal on the surface. I'm still wondering why civilians need automatic weapons. If this guy had to stop and reload 6 bullets, he could have been stopped.

[Jimmy Hoops]

41. I agree, but....

The kid had no history of violence. Only depression, some speeding tickets, and a stern talking to from his school dean or teacher or something. It would be very hard to predict that he was going to do what he did. While I'm for keeping guns out of mentally ill people's hands, I would thnk it pretty unfair if I couldn't buy a gun cause I was on Zoloft 15 years ago.