How dare someone like Doug Schoen insult Bella Abzug and Howard Dean....

[madfloridian]

in the same breath in his new book? I just realized today who she was. There is a thread here today about how he attacks Howard Dean in his new book and compares him with Bella Abzug.

I found myself wondering why do so many Democrats do that? I have heard Democrats insult McGovern, insult Dukakis, and now there are three connected to one campaign who constantly insult the DNC chairman on TV and in books.

But it just hit me today. Why would they do that? Why do Carville, Begala and Doug Schoen do that? There must be a reason. I am beginning to think the reason is fear of the grassroots who were awakened by the onslaught of the war in Iraq. We were angry, and they knew it. We know our country will never be the same again.

BUT...today I realized from that thread...Bella Abzug?? I had forgotten about her and did some research. She sounds like she was quite a lady to me. Yet Doug Schoen in his new book blasted her. He blasted Howard Dean. Why?

Pollster Doug Schoen, the longtime partner of Clinton strategist Mark Penn, has harsh words for Howard Dean and the Netroots in his forthcoming book, The Power of the Vote.

Schoen, who left Penn, Schoen & Berland at the end of last year, advises Democrats to move to the center, and calls Dean' style of politics "a depressing reminder that old habits die hard."

He deplores the fact that "Democrats like Howard Dean are still channeling Bella Abzug thirty-plus years after she flamed out with New York's overwhleming Democratic electorate."

"Democrats like Harold Ford -- not Howard Dean -- should be chairmen of the Democratic National Committee," Schoen writes in the book, due out April 1.

Schoen vs Dean

That is absolutely insulting. There is no excuse for it. It is just as insulting as when James Carville used his role on CNN to say Dean was a Rumfeldian incompetent. Outrageous.

There is just no way anyone can defend such stuff. Sorry, but there is not.

About Bella, who looks like she was one great lady. Why in the world would Doug Schoen say those things about her? I question his credentials to criticize her, Dean, or any of us in the party. But more on that at the bottom.



Bella Abzug
My Hero

More about her from that site:

Do you know what a hero is? A hero is a person who does something that is important to others. Usually, they possess many good qualities, such as bravery, trustworthiness, and courage. A hero to me is Bella Abzug. She lived in New York all through her life from July 24, 1920 to March 31, 1998. She attended Hunter College and graduated in 1942. Bella decided she wanted to be a lawyer, so she went to Columbia Law School until 1947.

Bella Abzug did many things to help the world. She was part of the peace movement against the war in Vietnam. Bella really wanted women to vote, so she supported the Equal Rights Amendment. She said, “I am not elevating women to sainthood, nor am I suggesting that all women share the same views, or that all women are good and all men bad.”

...."Bella fought for day cares, so mothers could drop their children off and then go to work. She also tried to prevent women from getting less pay than men when they worked. This was called the Equal Rights Amendment. She also ran for the U.S. Senate for the Democratic Party. In 1976, she lost to Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Wow, I wish I had known that lady. She sounds like a real American to me.

As for Doug Schoen and his partners....this article called The Coup Plotters tells me a lot.

How does a group use exit polls to facilitate coups?

Penn, Schoen and Berland (PSB) has played a pioneering role in the use of polling operations, especially "exit polls," in facilitating coups. Its primary mission is to shape the perception that the group installed into power in a targeted country has broad popular support. The group began work in Serbia during the period that its principle, Mark Penn, was President Clinton's top political advisor.

I will not get started on the others, like Harold Ford, who are too often critical of Dean. Harold Ford has his own party chairmanship now, and most probably will have Dean's when Hillary becomes the nominee.

I intend to have no more patience with people like this insulting others in the party that I admire and respect.

No more. They need to stop it. They want us on board??? If they do then they need to stop insulting us and calling us "noisy activists" and such. And Ford and Schoen need to be careful not to use their newly acquired status as Fox News consultants to hurt our party activists in any way.

No more.

[saltpoint]

1. Bella Abzug was one of the most impressive human beings ever.

I miss her very badly.

She ran for Mayor of New York. The vote totals on election night were within approximately 1 percentage point of each other, with Ed Koch, Mario Cuomo, Abe Beame (the incumbent) and Bella Abzug being the 4 who were all bunched up.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915469,00.html?iid=chix-sphere

The run-off between Cuomo and Koch was won by Koch.

Abzug was a fighter. And a great soul.

Howard Dean and Bella Abzug would have had a lot to talk about over a cup of coffee. Better make it a whole jug of coffee, come to think of it.

I don't know Schoen. But I'd like to punch him in the kisser.

[madfloridian]

3. Thanks for the further info on her.

Very impressive. Yes, I believe they would enjoy a cup of coffee together. :hi:

[Torgo Johnson]

2. I can't believe I'm the only person to rec this.

Come on people, Bella Abzug was a true epitome of what the Democratic Party is about. Doug Schoen is just a for-hire pretender.

[madfloridian]

4. Appreciated.

I think we have let them get away with stuff like this for too long. They all seem to think it is ok. I am fed up. I want no more attacks on activists, and I will speak up strongly when I see them.

My posts don't get a lot of recommends here, but that's ok. :hi:

[saltpoint]

5. It's gittin' one now.

Recommended with enthusiasm!

[Cha]

13. Thanks for bringing these to our

attention, so diligently, mad. I don't want them to be doing this without repercussions, either.

Dean's going to persevere but it's not like he doesn't have the bushits and the democratic losers club trying to annihilate him and us(the activists of The Democratic Party who actually go out and work for change). It's not easy working for Democracy..history proves that.

dougie schoen and his little tribe of creepy corporatists are fascists in dino clothing.

[Bukowski Fan]

6. I haven't seen the name Bella Abzug in a long time!

Thanks for your post not just for the content, but for the rememberance of one fightin' leftie!

It seems to me to be a trend among the Democratic establishment to put down the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party" more than the Republicans because we are the ones who truly threaten them. As long as there is the two pro-corporate parties, they will always have a job, no matter who wins. They can bicker over small social issues and the like, without ever taking on the 400 lb gorillas. However, when a populist, grassroots revolution begins to break out among the rank and file and party activists, as it did during the 2004 primary, embodied by Dean's campaign, they must attack it at every turn.

I believe the rift to be deeper than many think. In fact, there are times when I believe the rift between the grassroots and establishement of the Democratic Party are greater than the rift between the establishments of the Republican and Democratic Parties.

[madfloridian]

9. Your last statement could be truer than we realize.

"I believe the rift to be deeper than many think. In fact, there are times when I believe the rift between the grassroots and establishment of the Democratic Party are greater than the rift between the establishments of the Republican and Democratic Parties."

I see a lot of truth in that statement. Too many who demand we never be critical of this administration are all too ready to criticize the activists in their own party.

[blm]

10. The rift is between open government Democrats and those Dems protective of secrecy and privilege

of the elite powerstructure.

[Morgana LaFey]

15. Superb insights, superbly put

In fact, there are times when I believe the rift between the grassroots and establishement of the Democratic Party are greater than the rift between the establishments of the Republican and Democratic Parties.

The grassroots is VERY threatening: if we take our power back, THEY don't have any, or have only what we give them. What could BE more threatening than that?

[NormanYorkstein]

7. Dean was right, his critics were wrong

Dean was right about the 50 state strategy, Dean as Chair of the party won back BOTH houses of Congress, Dean reinstituted the legal party where it was dead. What a joke that Rahm Emmanuel and that other joke what's his name tried to attack Dean after a great victory.

Dean was right, the anti-Dean people were wrong. You can't argue with results.

[cali]

8. enthusiastic k&r for Bella

She was wonderful! This should be on the greatest page. As for Schoen, it's just part of the effort to get Dean out and put in a Hillary foot soldier, before the primaries. It's sure to ratchet up in the coming months. They really, really want him out.

[Morgana LaFey]

11. The GOP NEVER talks about the need to move to the center

They talk about it only in THE most temporary terms: move to the right for the primary and then move to center for the general election. Instead, we are told we need to move to the cneter FOREVER. Why? It doesn't make sense to me. If "the center" is where it's at, baby, then EVERYBODY ought to be in The Center, right?

Of course, we know the truth: the DNC and their fawning toadies are wrong but in thrall to the corporatists and fascists who DO want us to move to the right.

I'm so sick of it. I'm SO sick of Harold Ford, and Carville and Begala. These people are a cancer on our party, there's no two ways about it. They actively suppress democracy by actively suppressing the grassroots.

And yes, Bella Abzug was one hell of a woman. Loud-mouthed, fat, ugly, hat-wearing feminist when being a feminist was REALLY scandalous and the Women's Liberation Movement was young and vibrant and kicked butt. Bella kicked butt with the best of 'em, and then she ran for the Senate. Wouldn't Bella in the Senate have been a hoot?

[Cha]

14. Good point about the repugs..

I think you mean the "dlc", though, instead of the "DNC"(Dean is the head of the DNC. :)

[Morgana LaFey]

23. Aaargh! You're right. I meant the DLC and THEIR toadies.

Yuck. Can't believe I made that mistake. Thanks for catching it for me.

[blm]

19. That's an excellent observation about the way the GOP and Dems use the 'center' strategy.

It deserves its own thread - and there would be plenty who would appreciate your simple but completely accurate point.

[Cha]

12. dougie needs to reverse this on himself..

"Schoen, who left Penn, Schoen & Berland at the end of last year, advises Democrats to move to the center, and calls Dean' style of politics "a depressing reminder that old habits die hard."

dougie and his ilk are so entrenched in their democratic losers club that they can't see the People are running right over them.

Say "buh bye", dougie..you ol' warhorse.

Dean is a bright and shining light who has come out of Vermont to help our Nation. Hope he has a retort to dougie's smearing attempt of Bella and himself by the wannabe, dougie schoen.

[madfloridian]

16. Zidzi, just saw at DNC that Dean will be on Situation Room today at 5:00

Thought you might be interested.

[Cha]

17. Thanks, mad! I don't get the

higher channels anymore but will be checking out DU for your report. :)

I hope Dean has his fast talking chops on so he can run right over woofie's rw talking points.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. Hmmmm...

Who would I want representing the ideals Democratic Party -- a Harold Ford or a Bella Abzug??? :crazy:

I am old enough to remember Bella. Bella was an agitator who made stuff happen, constantly pushing, constantly requiring more of the government and the people.

And Harold? The epitome of "don't rock the boat" and "keep your head down".

All progress we ever make is because some beautiful, loud-mouthed agitator got their panties in a wad and said, "Enough!"

Gloria Steinham, Chavez, Martin, Malcolm, Cindy Sheehan, Bella, Al Gore, our Founding Fathers, the Lunch Counter protestors, John Brown, Dean....the list could go on forever.

If it had up to people like this Schoen and his ilk, where would we have gotten on civil rights?, women's rights?, environmental justice?, the Iraq invasion?...hell, if Schoen had been around back in the day he would have probably advocated for the Colonies staying with Mother England!?!

Shitbag Schoen can kiss my ass.

[madfloridian]

20. A view on Schoen from a Bolivian blog referring to his work in Venezuela.

Amazing the difference in what we see in the US media. I had posted about this polling and how Schoen had to be replaced by Penn.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/779

"Sudden change at U.S. polling firm startles Venezuelan oppositionBY PHIL GUNSON AND STEVEN DUDLEY
[email protected]
CARACAS - A sudden change in the management team of a U.S.-based polling firm working for opponents of President Hugo Chávez has raised eyebrows on the eve of presidential elections today.

Penn, Schoen & Berland, (PSB) a Washington firm that has been polling during the campaign and will be conducting exit polls for opposition candidate Manuel Rosales, confirmed that Mark Penn and not Doug Schoen will lead its team here.

Two members of Rosales' team, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak on the record, expressed surprise over the sudden change in managers and weren't sure how it would affect polling."

But wait until you read this blog from Bolivia and follow the links. Of course we take all blogs with a grain of salt. However some of the links to other sites sound pretty interesting.

Keeping up with Doug Schoen

We were wondering what he’d been up too. You may recall that when we last left our hero, it was the middle of the night before Venezuela’s presidential election, and the poor guy had just been sacked by his U.S. polling firm for embarrassing their reputation with phony poll results. The firm’s president (and top Hillary Clinton advisor) Mark Penn was forced to fly to Caracas to relieve Schoen of his responsibilities and take over the day’s operations.

Apparently, Schoen stayed on in Venezuela to freebase bitterness with the craziest of the Caracas glitterati. And today, he’s made his triumphant public return by co-authoring a delusional Op-Ed in the fourth-rate New York Sun. It’s quite a piece. It reads like a high-school essay, but without all the required documentation.

Schoen opens with a claim that Chavez never won the 2006 elections at all. You see, a new “study” from Caracas showed “fraud” in the voter registry, where Hugo Chavez single-handedly “added 4.4 million favorable names to the voter list and ‘migrated’ 2.6 million unfavorable voters to places where it was difficult or impossible for them to vote.” Wowza. That would have been quite the trail of tears. You’d think somebody would have noticed this in the middle of the most heavily monitored election in Latin American history."

..."So don’t cry for Doug, Venezuela. He may not have many marketable skills, but he’s clearly been picked up by the State Department.

UPDATE: Of course! Why didn't we think of it before? There is a perfect job out there for Doug Schoen. He just went to work for Fox News.

[Cha]

21. This is interesting, mad..

I love the way you investigate..so ol' dougie doesn't sound like too reputable of a guy. Kinda sleezy, actually. Is he still working for faux?

"The firm’s president (and top Hillary Clinton advisor) Mark Penn was forced to fly to Caracas to relieve Schoen of his responsibilities and take over the day’s operations."

And now dougie has a book smearing Bella Abzug and Howard Dean! I'm sure Bella would be flattered and, no doubt, Dean..if he's not too busy trying to get our National and Local Democratic Parties and People in place to win 2008.

[madfloridian]

22. Did not disclose Fox ties when he appeared on PRI radio to comment on Fox News.

He did not disclose to them before air time that he was a paid commentator for Fox. He appeared opposite Adam Green of MoveOn to discuss the Nevada debates on Fox. If people want bloggers to disclose whomever they work for, then consultants on TV should as well when they appear elsewhere.

Carville and Begala need to make it clear they are connected with the Clinton campaign when they appear on CNN.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/pri/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1055473§ionID=2

"Democrats, Fox News and the Internet

With caucuses scheduled for early next year, Nevada's Democratic Party scheduled a presidential debate on the Republican-leaning Fox Cable News Channel this coming August. National Democratic Chair Howard Dean said that was a way of reaching a large audience of disgruntled conservatives who might be looking for a new place to go. Internet activists complained that Fox News is "a mouthpiece for the Republican Party," and now the debate has been cancelled. MoveOn.org is one Internet voice telling the Democrats to freeze Fox out all over the country. Is that good strategy or "political suicide?" Who decides what's "fair and balanced?" What's the lesson about the impact of the Internet? We hear from journalists, watchdogs, political activists and political scientists.

Guests:

* Adam Green: Civic Communications Director at MoveOn.org

* Doug Schoen: Democratic strategist Fox News contributor. NOTE: Guest Doug Schoen was identified as a Democratic strategist, which he is. Doug Schoen is also a paid commentator for Fox News, which we did not know until after our broadcast was over.

* Amy Mitchell: Deputy Director of the Project for Excellence in Journalism

* William Mayer: Professor of Political Science at Northeastern University"