Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Chilling! Yahoo Betrayed My Husband

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 04:52 PM
Original message
Chilling! Yahoo Betrayed My Husband
'Yahoo Betrayed My Husband

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72972-0.html?tw=wn_politics_6


By Luke O'Brien| Also by this reporter
12:00 PM Mar, 15, 2007

FAIRFAX, Virginia -- Early one Sunday morning in 2002, a phone rings in Yu Ling's Beijing duplex. She's cleaning upstairs; her son is asleep, while downstairs, her husband, Wang Xiaoning, is on the computer. Wang writes about politics, anonymously e-mailing his online e-journals to a group of Yahoo users. He's been having problems with his Yahoo service recently. He thinks it's a technical issue. This is the day he learns he's wrong.

Wang picks up the phone: "Yes?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. We should be using our economic clout against Chinese authoritarianism. (nt)
Edited on Fri Mar-23-07 05:18 PM by w4rma
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That isn't going to happen.
The Chinese market is too big to screw around with. We can negotiate with them, maybe shame them into acting more humanistically on the margins. But no stick is big enough to push that fat gorilla around.

Human rights will come to China in baby steps. They will go thru a thousand such victims before their poeple start to demand better treatment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I could not disagree more. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually you *could* disagree more... if you could argue beyond a limp "(nt)" in your headline
Like Isaiah said, "Come, let us reason together."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. First, the "Communist" regime in China has said they won't allow democracy for at least 100 years.
Edited on Fri Mar-23-07 05:48 PM by w4rma
Second, pulling out of 'free' trade with China and going back to the way we did trade between nations for centuries (tariffs) is now our economic power over China. It can be done gradually. Or suddenly. But, it is a threat that we can successfully follow through on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And I for one believe them. They're going to take a long slow road to human rights.
There will be conflicts, and therefor more victims than heroes, along the way to a more human China.

The threat of US trade sanctions, such as tariffs, would certainly get China's attention, but the cost would be tremendous to us, as well. We're not playing a one-on-one game when it comes to trade. If we hit them in their customer base like this (and they do, indeed, need our markets) even in gradual steps as you suggest, they are certain to retaliate where they can hurt us. My guess would be they find ways to limit US capital investment in China. They need capital investors to grow there. But there's a whole Europe just frickin' full of capital looking for a promising market to put their money in. And there's a Japan, too.

It's not a bilateral field here. We'd take a hit on consumer prices from a tariff AND we'd take a hit on investment and growth opportunities. We'd have a LOT of pissed off bankers and hedge fund managers to contend with. China on the other hand would only have to find new investors, which it surely would given its growth potential, and find new consumer markets to do business with. There might be a shift in their industrial outputs, but not in their industrial development.

If things continued to get ugly with a slow tariff war (which is essentially what you're suggesting as our leverage), there's also the matter of all the public debt we owe them. Chinese banks are among the biggest holders of US Treasury bonds and pissing off one's creditors is never a great idea. The bonds sell under terms, so it's not like they could just call in our debts one day. But if they really wanted to pressure us into ending our restrictive tariffs, they could start refusing to buy our debt bonds, which along with the inflation that comes with a tariff war would probably start to screw Uncle Sam's credit rating.

We do have leverage points that we can use to get them to be nicer to their people. But we have to use soft power and gradualism to achieve our ends, not hard threats that cut our noses more than spiting our trade partners. The last three men actually elected president all ran on platforms saying they wanted to get tough on Chinese human rights abuses (Reagan, Clinton, and the grown up Bush). All three ended up facing the reality that we need China more than they need us and the only way to deal with the fat gorilla is to keep him happy while his citizens slowly start to demand the flip side of economic success--political empowerment.

Capitalism is an insideous little coin. It looks so lovely on the one face, Deng Xioaping saw. But the longer you grasp at it, the hungrier people get to share its full benefits and regulate its excesses. Capitalism and industrialism lead to increasing trade unionism. The free market demands it. The invisible hand pushes for environmental regulation and democratized prosperity and spreading the benefits to all those factory workers who are keeping your Wal-Mart buyers well stocked.

China may think they'll keep liberal democracy at bay for the next hundred years. I'm sure Gorbochev and his little glasnost experiment thought the same. Long before we reach the quarter century mark the Chinese people will start clamoring to have more say in their economy, and thus more freedom in their press and politics. Hu Jintao is smarter than Gorbachev, or at least is more sophisticated. But nobody can beat the deadly combination of Levi Strauss and Mickey Mouse. If their workers make goodies, they'll want goodies. If the people want goodies, they'll get goodies, and they won't let a few internet filters stand in their way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. That's right
little by little the people will organize in China and demand a share in the prosperity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Uh, we don't have any.
They own us. It happened while we were sleeping over the past two decades, as we outsourced our production means, then our wealth, then our influence to the Chinese.

The power lies with THEM, NOT US. They have the power to SHUT DOWN our economy by either adjusting their currency value closer to accurate value or stop buying our debt. Either would FUCK us so bad we would spiral into a SEVERE recession. They also have nukes, a bigger army by several fold (as far as troop levels) the ability to shoot down spy satellites, and all of our shit in their warehouses.

We have no power. We sold it to Wal-Mart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Then we take our economic clout back. (nt)
Edited on Fri Mar-23-07 05:44 PM by w4rma
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Actually, we have great leverage with them: technology, markets, capital...
We have what they want. They could go to Europe or Japan, but we'll build a more lasting peace and a freer China in the long run if we use soft power to nudge (or lure) them in the right direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think what you may be urging us to do will empower China and reduce our ability to leverage.
Edited on Fri Mar-23-07 08:35 PM by w4rma
That will be the result of continuing the course on 'free' trade. In fact, when Chinese unions tried to gain some power it was United States-based corporations who *fought* them. OUR own 'free' trade policies are impeding Chinese attempts at more democracy and higher wages there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Spot On!

China owns us. And the BFEE's toying with fascism isn't all that far away from the underlying workings of the "planned economy" anyway.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. I've long hated Yahoo.
Now more than ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. ditto n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. kinda sounds like what DHS and the telcom folks do in the US
and yahoo! and pals are complicit in those incidents too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-24-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Last spring, when the "Hi, Joe." hack showed up on my SBC/Yahoo email,
I wrote an email to the Yahoo tech dept complaining about it. I questioned whether my email had been compromised. As I had been studying the NSA wiretaps, I also asked why they would allow Bushco to wiretap US citizens by using the AUMF to usurp FISA and Title III of The Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, in violation of 50 US Code Section 1809 of FISA. And I wrote that it was too damn slow.

I received an email directing me to adjust the preferences in my email and to restart the program, thereby clearing the hack. Fine, no problem.

Then I got a phone call from SBC. The caller wanted to know more about my "problem". "What problem?" I asked. "Your company allowing the bush administration to wiretap US citizens in violation of FISA and Title III?" The caller said he didn't know about that, but was calling because I said it was slow. "Yeah, it's too damn slow." The caller said they would work on it and ended the conversation.

After I hung up, I thought, "Is it common for them to call a customer back? Should I have asked that?" Then I thought, "What if they said, 'No.'":hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC