Competing Dean Quotes: bin Laden...

[wyldwolf]

"I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials."

In an interview with the New Hampshire newspaper for Friday editions, Dean added: "I'm sure that is the correct sentiment of most Americans, but I do think if you're running for president, or if you are president, it's best to say that the full range of penalties should be available. But it's not so great to prejudge the judicial system."

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-dean-bin-laden,0,5923919.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

As a president, I would have to defend the process of the rule of law. But as an American, I want to make sure he gets the death penalty he deserves," Dean told the AP in a phone interview.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/12/26/politics1852EST0615.DTL

Perhaps Kerry supporters will be returning those flipflops?



Poster Child For Foot-in-Mouth Disease

[Melinda]

1. Which part of public vs. private don't you get?

:eyes:

[Eric J in MN]

2. On Fox News Special Report tonight

Mort Kondracke and Charles Krauthammer were lying and saying Dean said Usama shouldn't get the death penaly (which Dean never said).

[bearfartinthewoods]

9. i heard the R word applied to dean for the first time yesterday

during a report on the religion flap, "the question is, is howard dean trying to re-invent himself already".

to quote the DR...."why do i do these things" good question but a better one is "when are you going to stop doing these things".

there really is no need to keep feeding the media and the pubbies ammo.

[unfrigginreal]

3. He calls for due process in both quotes

Is that something that would bother some Clark supporters?

[oasis]

4. And how this will play on Mainstreet U.S.A.?: Dr. Dean directs such anger

at our president who protects us from terror, but he is quite even tempered when it comes to passing judgement on the "World's Vilest Terrorist".

Given today's climate of fear, which person would the average Joe choose for president?

[Hoppin_Mad]

5. AWOLChimp "protects us from terror" ? Not after 911 is exposed

and it WILL be by Nov 04.

[sandnsea]

7. What will be exposed?

Please, can we try to elect a nominee based on the real world. Think whatever you want about 9/11, but there is not going to be some sudden expose that shows Bush caused 9/11 on purpose. There is not going to be anything to show he knew in advance. There is not going to be evidence to say the terrorists are CIA operatives.

There is ONLY going to be terrorists and the candidate who can protect the country. If we don't have a candidate with credibility on the issue, we will not win. Howard Dean has blown his credibility all to hell, all by himself, with his mountain of ignorant statements.

[bitchkitty]

10. Maybe with you -

Wesley Clark blew his credibility slobbering all over the BFEE. Let's see, what was it he said?

"I would have been a Republican if Karl Rove had returned my calls".

[ignatiusr]

11. Uh..

Newsflash, bitchkitty- that was a joke. Even the press realized that, which is why no one ever asks him about it. It obviously wasn't on the level.

[JNelson6563]

12. it was no joke

WORD WAS THAT Karl Rove, the president’s political mastermind, had blocked the idea. Clark was furious. Last January, at a conference in Switzerland, he happened to chat with two prominent Republicans, Colorado Gov. Bill Owens and Marc Holtzman, now president of the University of Denver. “I would have been a Republican,” Clark told them, “if Karl Rove had returned my phone calls.” Soon thereafter, in fact, Clark quit his day job and began seriously planning to enter the presidential race-as a Democrat. Messaging NEWSWEEK by BlackBerry, Clark late last week insisted the remark was a “humorous tweak.” The two others said it was anything but. “He went into detail about his grievances,” Holtzman said. “Clark wasn’t joking. We were really shocked.”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3087185/

[maddezmom]

13. probably similar to Dean joking

<<Well, there are future political considerations," Dr. Dean told statehouse reporters. "We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor.">>

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/27/politics/27RECO.html?pagewanted=print&position=

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. is this on the level?

i've never heard the holztman comments. who is holztman anyway?

[sandnsea]

6. No kidding

I don't know why people don't see the mountain of material Howard, himself, has given the RNC to work with.

RNC Ad #1 Leadership? Will Howard Dean ensure the safety of Americans when he doesn't even care what happens to Osama bin laden?

"Again, we are allowing the Bosnian war criminals to be tried at The International Court in The Hague. That suits me fine. As long as they’re brought to justice and tried.."

I'm sure that is the correct sentiment of most Americans, but I do think if you're running for president, or if you are president, it's best to say that the full range of penalties should be available. But it's not so great to prejudge the judicial system."

RNC Ad #2 Soft on terrorists?

When Howard Dean was Governor of Vermont he advocated the death penalty because sometimes "people get out on technicalities". For Osama bin Laden, he worries about due process. Howard is more concerned about civil rights for terrorists than U.S. citizens!

"As a president, I would have to defend the process of the rule of law. But as an American, I want to make sure he gets the death penalty he deserves," Dean told the AP in a phone interview.

[HFishbine]

15. Capitulation to the manufactured fear paridigm

seems to be your primary concern.

[TheWebHead]

8. well the basic point with this

and many other of Dean's quotes, while you can maneuver a broader opinion to justify what he says, the gutteral reaction from people is that he's shoving his foot in his mouth (see above photo :) ). What's the benefit of giving UBL, who admitted his guilt on videotape (sure, he may be part of a broader conspiracy), a pass? Even if you believe in innocence before trial in all cases, why offer that opinion on Usama? What is the political benefit? Same can be said of the Saddam "safer" quote... It's just politically stupid talk that net-net can only hurt you. He's got to be more careful because his quotes can be parsed, and if he makes a broader point, the media will cherry pick these soundbites to make him look bad... he should avoid feeding this at all costs.

[robbedvoter]

14. My thread was locked, but had DIFFERENT points:

robbedvoter (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-27-03 09:04 AM
Original message
HD vs HD - flip, flop and recant - the Osama story
flip
that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty
flop
we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials.''
Recant - what he said
This is the exactly the kind of case that the death penalty is meant for.
"When we capture Osama bin Laden, he will be brought to justice and treated in the same manner that President Bush is recommending for Saddam Hussein."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/26/elec04.prez.dean.bin.laden/index.html
After all that brave defense of the presumption of inocence...
Disclaimer: I formly believe in the presumption of inocence and due process, but sometimes, legal terms on highly emotional issues can have a nails on the blackboard effect. Kinda like Dukakis answer in the debate to "What if your wife were raped"

[robbedvoter]

16. New dilemma: if OBL=SH, should OBL be tried in Iraq?

In hus rush to agree with Bush, HD tells us the two situations are identical. I will not count the ways this is wrong, just one consideration, strictly for legal jurisdiction purposes: former head of state vs renegade, stateless international terrorist. Discuss amongst yourselves....

[killbotfactory]

17. Huh?

Please tell us what your definition of flip-flop is.

[robbedvoter]

18. Making two contradictory statements - in the same sentence here

as in: "He'll be probablly found guilty" vs "best not to prejudge a jury trial"

[seventhson]

19. Think OJ: You NEVER know what a jury will do

I said the samew thing about OJ.

BUT, I personally believe in BFEE MIHOP. An international trial might bring out ANYTHING (or NOTHING).

I think Dean is consistent and solid on this.

No big deal at all, just whimpering from those whose candidates are sinking.

[TeacherCreature]

21. yes exactly

The desperation is so strong I can smell coming across the computer screen.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

22. It's just gotta be tiring

eating sour grapes day in and day out. I'm sure glad I'm on the winning team. :)

Go Dean!

[killbotfactory]

20. How are those contradictory?

Saying he'll probably be found guilty is just common sense. The second quote you have was referring to what penatly OBL should get.

Should I be surprised that someone can take quotes out of context and make them look bad?

[synthia]

23. he was right the first time.

when he put the emphasis on , as Americans we should focus on a fair trial.
"....we should do our best ...snip...not to prejudge jury trials."

the second time, he put the focus, as Americans, on osama being dead
"But as an American, I want to make sure he gets the death penalty he deserves,"

you don't perceive a difference? i do.

[killbotfactory]

27. This is what I see...

He says OBL should get a fair trial, even though he thinks he is guilty and would like him to get the death penalty.

[frustrated_lefty]

24. I would have to defend the process of the rule of law.

Perhaps you could point out where the inconsistency is?

[JNelson6563]

26. not likely

You ask too much friend. ;-)

Julie