No one is talking about Bush's call for mercenaries

[tetedur]

A second task we can take on together is to design and establish a volunteer Civilian Reserve Corps. Such a corps would function much like our military reserve. It would ease the burden on the Armed Forces by allowing us to hire civilians with critical skills to serve on missions abroad when America needs them. And it would give people across America who do not wear the uniform a chance to serve in the defining struggle of our time.

Am I the only one who shudders at the possiblities of this?

[formercia]

1. Is this legal?

Sign up today at your local temp agency...:sarcasm:

[formercia]

10. Go blow up a market place in the Morning and be home for dinner

then one day you have an accident to prevent you from tattling.

[Tellurian]

20. Whatever, he's asking for an $$$ appropriation..

Very subtle he was, asking for a volunteer civilian army.
And yes, I caught that right away, mercenaries.

The very first bill passed in 2000 was a bill sponsored
by Barr, stating: "any" Federal employee (think the mailman)
is eligible for immunity from prosecution if they are enlisted
as assassins as part of their job related tasks.

That is for real. This is typical foreplay in this administration.
Bury unheard of innocuous sounding legislation for use at some later date.

[formercia]

23. I've seen that trick used before

The black ops people do it all the time. If they want to do something controversial, they make an innocuous proposal that will get approval, then down the road it gets canceled but the resources are still there but off the books. Once everyone forgets about the original project, they pull the goods out of their hat and go ahead with what they wanted to do in the first place.

[Tellurian]

31. It would be good if

a Senator from the Appropriations Committee questions the use of these troops
or stalls the commission of them into action.

I think Bush is backing his play for fear of Impeachment of himself or Cheney.

[formercia]

34. Shutzstaffel

Just like Hitler had his own private army called the SS, loyal only to him.


The Schutzstaffel (German for "Protective Squadron"), abbreviated Runic 'SS' (Runic) or SS (Latin), was a large security and military organization of the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazi Party) in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel

[Tellurian]

37. I know... I'm afraid we'll never have the chance

for a Dem to be elected.

This is so like them to have a plan B in place for the ultimate Trump Card.

[earth mom]

43. Like a freeper call to arms...?!

Holy Sh*t! * is hiring soldiers to be deployed on U.S. soil or perhaps in Paraguay... :tinfoilhat:

p.s. Congress: IMPEACH NOW! :grr:

[Tellurian]

52. Listen, Demo history is this over the last 6 yrs..

We campaign for an honest election in 2000... they steal it.
" " " " " " " in 2002... they steal it again..
" " " " " " " in 2004... they steal that one too
" " " " " " " in 2006... they lose...but

The Neocons are up to something else even more sinister.
The next step beyond.. and this looks to me where they're going.

It's awfully silent out there.. Not a good sign. Perfect for blindsiding though.

[Recursion]

33. Think "border fence"

Because that's exactly what's going to happen with that money.

[Tellurian]

38. noo...Bush could care less about that..

he's into protecting himself and Cheney..

[Recursion]

46. No, sorry, I meant the fence will never get built

But the money will still be spent on God-knows-what.

As they said in Independence Day, "You don't actually think they spent $600 on a hammer, $1200 on a toilet seat, do you?"

[Tellurian]

50. Believe it or not..

I remember reading the piece of legislation Barr rammed through Congress in 2000.
authorizing the use of federal employees as assassins.

The number of the Bill was either #1 or #001.

[zeemike]

2. No you are not the only one

It is the beginning of the corporate army that will be paid for by the tax payer.
If this happens I fear for us all.

[Tellurian]

22. I'm thinking this army will be used against us..

on our own soil.

The national guard soldiers he's deploying to the ME
is depleting our security forces here. Our own troops
would never hurt us knowing their own families are at risk here.
Bush is cunningly well aware of that.


The NG are being replaced by the mercenarys he spoke of
last night. War Protests planned next week. Citizen outrage.

He's just given himself permission to hire a civilian private
army to shoot to kill citizens with no possibility of recourse from us.
Certainly not now, our Constitution is in tatters languishing on the floor
in the halls of Congress. I'm afraid to say it, we are waist deep in sh*t!

[NoSheep]

67. My thoughts exactly.

[Loge23]

3. The CRC wants you!

Is this the wackiest idea yet?
The Redneck Raiders
The Crackpot Commandos
The Wingnut Wackos...
...and of course, the CCRC - The Christian Civilian Reserve Corps!

This sounds more like a domestic strike force to me.
The CRC is coming for you!

[momster]

4. Scares the **** out of me

How long before there's a 'Junior Corps of the CRC' at your local school, complete with white middy blouses and neckerchiefs of whatever color the Government thinks best illustrates their resolve? "Kids! Work Hard, Have Fun, and Turn Your Parents In for Cool Prizes!"

[quiet.american]

5. "...the defining struggle of our time....."

The real defining struggle of our time is getting Bush out of office and holding him accountable for his many crimes against humanity. Now that's something I'm first in line to sign on for.

[Justpat]

6. I found this the most horrifying part of his speech.

I looked through the papers this morning but find no
mention of it, even in the NY times.

This is an attempt by der furher to arm those who want to fight
for his cause without going through the discipline of the
military. They will be fighting whatever he chooses as a target
and I agree with the poster above who thinks it has a possibility
of turning into a domestic force.

[OregonBlue]

40. I had the same horrific reaction. A civilian Blackwater!!

[SpiralHawk]

7. "We can extract more PROFIT from this war." - Republicons

"Too bad about YOUR kids in uniform, and the Veterans.
But WAR Profit for cronies has priority."

- republicons

[Drum]

8. see also:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3073428&mesg_id=3073428

from last night.

[Cass]

9. Well, all the keyboard commando war cheerleaders ought to be all for this.

They're so into this war and now their sainted leader has given them the opportunity of a lifetime to put their money where their mouths are.

I'm surprised no one is talking about this program either. Its a pretty big proposal IMO and it seems strange the talking heads aren't mentioning it.

[formercia]

12. I can just see them huffing their fat paunches

across some street in Falluja, dodging snipers while trying to blow up the local Mosque.

[Vinca]

11. That was one of the strangest things in the speech.

Civilian Reserve Corps? What's he want to do, wheel Granny up to the front lines? It sounded like some twisted offshoot of the Peace Corps. Unlikely it will ever be heard of again.

[YOY]

13. The 'War Corps'?

I think there are already four of those...

[Tin Man]

14. Ding!

The Civilian War Corps - LOL

[sarge43]

15. I thought the federal gov't could hire people with critical skills

to work overseas now; I believe it's called the CIA.

This probably is like his Mars mission bs. It has the flight path of an anvil.

[formercia]

30. The problem is....

the CIA has a charter and it is accountable to Congress and other agencies. This new 'concept' allows them to change the rules of engagement on the fly.

[sarge43]

32. Yes true

However, if this 'corps' is paid and supported by federal funds, wouldn't the same apply? Or am I so 20th century thinking here?

[formercia]

35. It all depends what their charter says they can do.

The Congress could make them cooks and bottle washers and forbid them to carry weapons if it was so determined.

[YOY]

16. Dunno, maybe he's talking about a international developmental corps with a budget

Sort of like a Peace Corps with a budget...and none of the USAID middleman contracting constraints. What he said was so vague that it could have meant a great deal of things.

Then again it's George W were talking about. Fancy talk from a dope about mercenaries sounds about right as well.

[Tin Man]

17. I think W's talking non-combat, support roles for civilians - free up more troops to carry guns

The military is desperately seeking additional troops.

One solution would be to shift existing troops into active combat roles, and transfer their former non-combat assignments to civilian duty. I'm pretty sure that's what W is talking about.

[YOY]

18. *shudder*

Sweet jebus what a creepy thought... It's like a recipe for massive PTSD.

[Arkansas Granny]

21. You might be on to something there. That would effectively allow

him to increase the military without actually recruiting additional soldiers which is getting harder and harder to do. I'd like to hear from him on how he's implement this plan.

[formercia]

29. This is about getting Congress to approve a budget

so that Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater and all of the other related contractors can be kept in business after Iraq and Afghanistan is over, otherwise, they are effectively out of business as far as combat support is concerned.
When I worked in DC, I used to complain about how much we were paying the Beltway Bandits for work we could do ourselves at a fraction of the cost. It was explained to me by one of the old hands that they would feed them these small but lucrative contracts to keep them on-line in case they were needed for a bigger job. It's a form of corporate welfare for the spook wannabes. It also keeps their buddies and former colleagues in work and assures good political contributions come election time.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

44. I could see people signing up for this, thinking they wouldn't see any action.

..then BAMM...back door draft.

[formercia]

24. They are already doing that

Halliburton, KBR and Blackwater to mention a few. We know how that turned out.

[Tin Man]

25. True dat. Only once in the "War is Peace Corps" - you can't just quit and go home...

Unlike KBR, when you enlist in the "War is Peace Corps" * - you can't just quit and go home... not without a 2-year layover in Levenworth, anyway.

* "War is Peace Corps" is a registered trademark of DUer foo_bar. Still LMAO at that one...

[formercia]

27. Good Point

The modern Hessians.

[Tellurian]

28. The volunteer corp ARE home..

The mercenarys are designated for our own soil.

[Divernan]

36. Yes. Mercenaries are extremely well paid to FIGHT, not to fill support roles

The ratio of troops in combat to troops in support roles used to be 1 out of 10. But in today's wars, an entire region or country is a field of battle, and "civilians" there are at as much risk of death/injury as any combat soldier. One of my kids (2nd Lt./reserves) had training at Ft. Lee in the Quartermaster Corp - stuff like water purification. She received very minimal combat training.
This would be the kind of "support" services I think Bush is referring to. These support personnel would be in extreme danger, but not paid a mercenary's high salary, or entitled to military benefits, or bound by the Geneva Convention.
Here is proof of the danger such support personnel face:

The 14th Quartermaster Detachment, a United States Army Reserve water purification unit stationed in Greenburg, Pennsylvania, was mobilized for service in Southwest Asia on January 15, 1991. For the next 30 days, soldiers trained 18 hours a day on the Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit and common soldier tasks. The unit arrived in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia on Feb. 19, 1991. The detachment's soldiers were quartered in a warehouse that had been converted to a temporary barracks. There they waited for the arrival of unit equipment and movement to a field support location.

Iraqi SCUD Missile Attack

At 8:40 pm (12:40 pm EST) on February 25, 1991, parts of an Iraqi SCUD missile destroyed the barracks housing members of the 14th Quartermaster Detachment. In the single, most devastating attack on U.S. forces during that war, 29 soldiers died and 99 were wounded. The 14th Quartermaster Detachment lost 13 soldiers and suffered 43 wounded. Casualties were evacuated to medical facilities in Saudi Arabia and Germany.

The 14th, which had been in Saudi Arabia only six days, suffered the greatest number of casualties of any allied unit during Operation Desert Storm. Eighty-one percent of the unit's 69 soldiers had been killed or wounded.

[Tin Man]

39. Your daugher still in? I hope she's OK.

and thanks for the examples. That's what I'm thinking too... I see the potential to exploit the proposed "War is Peace Corps" as a "military lite", a way to enhance recruitment for "support roles". But the point you make is especially true when fighting an insurgency - there are no frontlines. Everyone is at some risk, even the support roles.

I could even back the idea of a Civilian Reserve, but only if their mission were limited to DOMESTIC activities (e.g. disaster response), kinda like the National Guard used to do, back before they were all shipped overseas to Iraq. If you recall, that was one of the big problems in the wake of Katrina - the majority of the NG units from LA and MS had been committed to Iraq... and nobody was available to actually guard the nation.

[Divernan]

48. She's doing civilian disaster relief work - as a beleaguered fed. employee

Trying to survive the Bush years and the way he and his political appointees have gutted her agency.
She was in the reserves during Iraq I - had the training but was not assigned to a particular unit, so was calling units all over the U.S. trying to find an open slot in a reserve unit going to Iraq.
At the time, I told her I knew she would go anywhere she was ordered to deploy, but why tempt fate by going ASAP (I was hoping by the time she was sent, that the worst of the fighting would be over- hey, I'm a Mom). Her reply? "Mom, I don't know if you can understand this, but I've been trained to do a job and my country needs me and I want to go." I've never been prouder of her, and I was also kicking myself for raising my kids to have a strong sense of public duty. (You don't see the Bush twins in harm's way, do you?) Then the Greensburg unit was attacked, and young women exactly the same age as my daughter, with the same training and job duties, were killed in their barracks. Somewhere in Greensburg, PA there are Moms just like me who lost their sons and daughters - and I know just how wonderful each one of those young people was and what a terrible loss their families suffered.

My daughter never did get called up for active duty. Now she's a career govt. employee/public servant, who could make a lot more money in private industry should she choose. She's done more good for her country in any one month of her career than Bush has done in a lifetime. The emotional cost to her is high - especially post 9/11, when her work took her to the Pentagon site on 9/13.

[Tin Man]

53. Kudos to you for raising a great daughter - we need more like her.

And I can empathsize with your sentiments regarding the 14th Quartermaster. At the time of the Gulf War, I was roomies with a guy from PA, really a good buddy of mine. A close friend of his, going back to his childhood days in Western PA (and whom I had met a time or two) became a Quartermaster and was deployed to Saudi. When my roomie and I saw the video on CNN about the scud attack and the tremendous casualties to a "PA Quartermaster detachment from Western PA", my buddy grew ashen - he wasn't sure with which detachment his friend served and was really fearing he may have been in that barracks when it exploded. We soon found out that his buddy's detachment wasn't involved; they were baracked nearby but outside the blast area. It gets pretty "real" when it involves people that you know.

Again, remind your daughter what a great job she's doing for us.

[Tellurian]

41. Wishful thinking..

If so, he wouldn't have mentioned it during the SOTU.

Otherwise, It would have been a natural expansion of the Peace Corp.

This is the first of it's kind civilian army hired (guns) by the Executive Branch.

[YOY]

51. Kinda like "Freedom Corps" was a natural expansion of "Americorps"?

No, they wouldn't dare give a thumbs up to a 'leftie organization' created by a Democratic president.

They just create their own little version...and let is sit and stew and do nothing but it sure does make them look good. All Freedom Corps does is find voluteer positions like a job database. Not much actual organization. Not many proud 'freedom corps clubs'...

It won't be this. We just don't have enough information yet to say what the hell idiot boy was talking about. Let's hope it's just smoke and mirrors.

[raccoon]

19. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

It's a masterpiece of doubletalk, bullshit, euphemism, etc. And you saw right through it.

[Tellurian]

26. Yes, Bush's words. like a thief in the night..

Those harmless words were the most grotesque part of his speech.
Passed over by most as ordinary and simplistic logic..well, yes we need more help.

This civilian force is not for overseas. This professional civilian force is for domestic unrest here.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

42. Re: "to hire civilians with critical skills to serve on missions abroad when America needs them".

Could you imagine if that means forcing American police officers to go to Iraq? Or, the school lunch lady to serve meals to the troops? ....Who knows what this will lead to.

[Larry Ogg]

45. Will the time come when corporate military is stronger than the American military

with no congressional oversight, UCMJ, Geneva Convention or Constitution to worry about? When the people decide to take back this country the corporations will be ready and we the people will be powerless and no election will set things striate. Sounds like another conspiracy theory in the making. It is said, “Democracy is a great experiment”. Could it be that the pieces are being created that will end the experiment? Or are we going to have to wait two more years to find out what is going on? When will it be too late?

[Tellurian]

55. We're at the breaking point right now..

I believe the takeover was scheduled to be more subtle, but as usual, the X-factor always upsets well made plans like, Cheney's involvement going full blown in the Plame Scandal.

It's been said on the news, Cheney was prepared to sacrifice Libby to protect Rove from prosecution. Apparently, Libby, doesn't see that plan as an altogether healthy plan for his future. So, who else is left to point a finger to for his salvation? Cheney...

Cheney looked real uncomfortable and worrisome last night and Bush looked bushed (overwhelmed) as I mentioned in another thread.

You all know, the Prez and the VP are never going to allow any such thing like an "I" to happen..
fast forward, the announcement of authorization of a hybrid volunteer army.... you decide..

[BlueIris]

47. Yeah, this, to me, was the biggest "WTF?" element of the speech.

Because it sure seems like he's suggesting mercenaries to me.

[formercia]

49. Junior's been watching too many old Westerns.

He thinks he's the big rancher who's going to hire a bunch of 'guns' because the Army won't do their job and keep his ranch safe from renegade grannies trying to settle on his 'land'.

[Blue_In_AK]

54. That was the most disturbing part of the speech, IMO.

[donkeyotay]

56. Privatization is the answer to everything. Of course, it's been hugely expensive

Wonder what makes dimson think these mercenaries are going to be "volunteers" and work for free?

"the defining struggle of our time" Wretch. I think the defining struggle will be repairing all the damage done to our country by bush.

[formercia]

61. Privatization = converting the treasury into a private asset

after all, it is your money, right?

[cosmik debris]

57. It's DOA

There is no way this would ever get through a Dem. Legislature. It won't even get a committee hearing. DOA.

[Efilroft Sul]

58. See Iraq Study Group Recommendation #74

Union Expresses Alarm Over Iraq Report Recommendation

The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) expressed alarm over an Iraq Study Group recommendation that federal agencies consider ordering federal civilian employees to fill workforce shortages in Iraq if the jobs can’t be staffed with volunteers. AFGE President John Gage said Dec. 7 that the union was seeking clarification over the study group’s “Recommendation 74,” which said: “In the short term, if not enough civilians volunteer to fill key positions in Iraq, civilian agencies must fill those positions with directed assignments.” Such assignments normally are used by federal agencies when they transfer a job to a different location within the United States. Under those circumstances, the employee is told to move or risk losing the position. The “recommendation as it is written does little more than advocate a ‘draft’ for federal workers,” Gage said. “It's just like getting any ‘person on the street’ and telling him or her that working in Iraq is now a condition of employment.”

http://www.federaldaily.com/federaldaily/archive/2006/12/FD121106.htm

[donkeyotay]

62. Are you kidding? That's the most creative union busting ever

and as a GOPer twofer, it helps "volunteer" a few more souls to Iraq. Ingenious.

[SanCristobal]

59. READ THIS: SECRET PLAN EXPOSED!

http://proceedings.ndia.org/6100/russell.pdf http://www.clark04.com/misc/003/

It's a way for the military to staff jobs that they either don't do or are not good at. Civilians would volunteer for the Reserve, and could be called up for a maximum time of one year. They would be paid according to the Federal pay scale. Bush probably got the idea from Wesley Clark, as it was part of his 2004 campaign.

This isn't a draft. It isn't a mercenary army. I've posted this on every single Civilian Reserve thread, and yet this circle jerk of conspiracy theories continues. Every time I post this the thread dies, and two more spring up in it's place. The Civilian Reserve has created a Hydra of threads that people aren't willing do a 30 second Google search before commenting on.

[Divernan]

60. A terrible idea to put civilians on the battle field - and in modern warfare,

a whole country plus neighboring countries used for staging areas ARE battlefields. You know one of the great traditional values of serving in the military for poor, uneducated kids, was getting job training they could use when they finished their service. That worked out because you had 9 soldiers performing various support functions (mechanic, photographer, computer specialist, cook, etc.)for every soldier actually in battle. Well, if the services are changed to the point that the only thing soldiers are used for and trained for is to operate their weapons/kill, then they come out of the service with at minimum, PTSD and at worst, lifelong physical handicaps, and precious little else.

See my posts 36 and 48 above.

[salin]

66. "called up for a maximum time of one year"

Who would believe that "maximum"?

[Tigress DEM]

63. I shudder at the thought of this administration appointing anyone..to anything.

John Boehner to UN.
Michael Brown to FEMA.
John Roberts to Supreme Court.

Even when someone is competent, they are horribly warped.

[rhiannon55]

64. See this thread from last night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=21656&mesg_id=21656

[gulliver]

65. They've been doing that.

All of these Halliburton people are taking the less dangerous jobs that used to be done by the military. So the troops that are there are not only pulling more tours under Bush, they are pulling harder ones.