U.S. Soldiers make fun of Iraqi children. MORONS!!!

[bigdarryl]

This further proves we should get the hell out of Iraq it appears some of our soldiers over there are out of control.http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/U.S._soldiers_lead_Iraq_children_in_1214.html

[Fridays Child]

1. Supposedly, the Pentagon is investigating the water bottle incident.

This is just as bad. Soldiers involved in these sorts of heartless acts should be disciplined. Empathy can be taught, but only if the student is ready to learn it.

[MADem]

3. Wrong, and terrible. But how can you discipline these troops? Send them to Iraq?

The chain of command is broken because they've decimated our forces. They've lowered accession standards, they've redeployed the guard and reserves, and even the active units, in brutal fashion, and they have not given them the training or equipment appropriate to the mission.

Lastly, but most importantly, they have not given them a coherent mission. "Drive up and down the road and get blown up" is NOT a mission, IMO.

These are not excuses for their poor behavior, but these are the reasons for it.

[Fridays Child]

4. I agree with your objective view of the reasons behind such behavior.

It may go further than that, too, to include behavioral/personality factors that were in place before these guys were ever deployed. Even socio-cultural factors play a role, here, I'm certain. And, among those, I do not discount the influence of our political leaders on the psychological climate of the country, in general.

It must be beyond horrible for our troops to be in Iraq but most soldiers are undoubtedly just as sickened by such behavior as are you and I. And that further affirms, for me, that it's unacceptable behavior, no matter the mitigating circumstances. The UCMJ must surely prescribe punishments for mistreating civilians--and, especially, children--in theatres of war and, whatever those are, they should apply to this case. A dishonorable discharge, for example, may affect the individual's ability to get jobs, loans, educational grants, and so on. Something like that might be appropriate.

It's hard for me to sit in judgment, though, precisely because of factors that we both agree contributed, at least, to these insensitive acts. On the other hand, soldiers who are guilty of crimes such as the rape and murder of that young girl and her family, in Haditha, will get no mercy from me.

[MADem]

5. Here is the sad truth, though. You discharge someone, administratively because they are a fuckup,

or under other than honorable conditions, and you have a big fat HOLE in your unit. The poor bums trying to lead under these hellish conditions are, dare I say, forced to 'go to war with the Army they have.' If you know that you'll be shorthanded and won't get replacements for your screwed up personnel, you try to make them fit, as best you can. It might not be 'right' but it's reality. Anyone who says that the quality isn't declining is on crack. It is. It's plain from the number of NHSG (non high school grads) they are taking, from the number of misdemeanors that can be waived, from the lowered ASVAB standards, from the willingness to 'up the age limit' from 34 to 42. That grating sound we are hearing is the noise that emanates from the bottom of the barrel when it is being mightily scraped.

I served over a period of several decades, which ranged from 'any warm body will do' to 'zero tolerance of any infractions.' It seems we are sliding rapidly back to the 'warm body' standard, and sins that would stop one from even enlisting are readily forgiven, both before entry and while in service. All that gang graffiti that's popping up around Baghdad isn't just a curious accident or the work of a single wag...it is a symptom of a real recruiting problem and a dirty little secret.

[Fridays Child]

6. It's a complicated picture...

...probably far more so than I understand. It sounds like you speak from experience and, you're correct: the truth is sad.

I wasn't aware of the gang graffiti in Baghdad. That should be a topic in the mainstream news or, if it is, I've missed it. It's an important indicator of the problems that we're seeing now.

[MADem]

7. It is beyond awful....it's surreally so

The Gangster Disciples, Latin Kings and Vice Lords were born decades ago in Chicago's most violent neighborhoods. Now, their gang graffiti is showing up 6,400 miles away in one of the world's most dangerous neighborhoods -- Iraq.

Armored vehicles, concrete barricades and bathroom walls all have served as canvasses for their spray-painted gang art. At Camp Cedar II, about 185 miles southeast of Baghdad, a guard shack was recently defaced with "GDN" for Gangster Disciple Nation, along with the gang's six-pointed star and the word "Chitown," a soldier who photographed it said.

The graffiti, captured on film by an Army Reservist and provided to the Chicago Sun-Times, highlights increasing gang activity in the Army in the United States and overseas, some experts say.

Jeffrey Stoleson, an Army Reserve sergeant in Iraq, is seen in front of a barricade tagged with gang graffiti in March in Iraq. Stoleson, who has been in Iraq for almost a year, says he has taken hundreds of photos of gang graffiti there. .more at link....



http://www.floppingaces.net/2006/05/02/gangsters-in-iraq/

Here is the goofiest shit about all this. The rightwingers have reported this like it is a sign of....what????? End times? The need to take a massive crap? Who really knows, with them? On the one hand, they want our innocent kids to go in harm's way, and on the other, if they are gangbangers, well, THAT'S not RIGHT, is it!!!! But DRAFT? No fuckin' way, eh???

It's an odd thing, that...

[Monkeyman]

2. When this crap happen the Chain of Command has broke down

Hell Bush broke the Military

[GreenZoneLT]

8. Hey, kids will pick on other kids

The average age of the junior enlisted is about 20; they're barely more than kids themselves.

Also, Iraqi children are the most obnoxious little "give me, mister!" beggars you've ever encountered. The streets are filled with swarms of the fearless little urchins (all boys; the girls are kept at home), even in middle class neighborhoods where they look well fed and well dressed. And they will NOT stop demanding gifts; it's like having flies buzz around you. Iraqis in general, including adults, have no cultural aversion to asking for handouts (I guess it's because their society has been traditionally made up of patriarchs and dependents).

Old farts like me take the "when in Rome" attitude, and tolerate little kids because they're little kids. Not-so-traveled 19-year-olds are more likely to pick on the little pains in the ass.

Take the water bottle incident. Those kids didn't need the water (Iraqis drink tap water, which is one of the few services that works almost all the time in Baghdad). Because the violence has shut down a lot of school activities and other recreation, the kids are bored stiff and no doubt enjoyed chasing the truck with the possibility of a prize for winning the chase.

That's also an old video; there are no U.S. troops riding around in open trucks any more.