Did the Green's Party screw America AGAIN?

[Lefty48197]

Surely, you remember the 2000 Presidential election, when Bush Jr. "won" Florida by about 650 votes. At the same time, Ralph Nader got 95,000 votes in Florida. 1% of Nader's voters could have given the state to Gore.

Fast forward to 2006. Virginia may very well decide if we have a Democratic majority in the Senate, or not. Allen leads by about 1700 votes with 99.18% of the precincts reporting. The Independent/Green Party candidat is up to over 25,000 votes right now.

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Replace the slash in her party name with a space

Her party affiliation is "Independent Green" .... which is not the Green Party we all love to hate.

Can't blame this one on the Greens.

[LoZoccolo]

11. What. Is. The. Difference. n/t

[Solon]

32. The GREEN party is Liberal, the Independent Greens are Conservative. n/t

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redwitch]

5. rude.

nt

[LoZoccolo]

8. Not nearly as rude as killing people and fucking the planet. n/t

[zulchzulu]

3. Don't blame the Greens...

We do need the option of a third party in the US. I'd blame the asswipes that voted for Allen that were Democrats. You know there were a few.

[Cascadian]

4. We desparately need better choices in this country.

I see no reason why we should not have 3, 4, or 5 political parties in America. Other political parties ought to have a fair shake. Sorry, but it's just my opinion. It should not have to be two parties.



John

[LoZoccolo]

6. I see a reason: Bush*, and now, Allen as well. n/t

[otherlander]

7. We need third parties, though.

Two parties can't really represent people that well. Socialists, libertarians, and neocons: how could any two of those three be in the same party without making the party divided and ineffective?

[LoZoccolo]

9. Where the fuck am I tonight? I'm about to reset my massive ignore list...

...and people are already begging to be put back on! What the fuck?

[otherlander]

15. Okay. It's less annoying to be ignored, anyway.

[Lindacooks]

25. Yep, me too. This is the DEMOCRATIC underground, NOT

the GREEN underground. We've been through this before. Greens fuck up elections.

[AtomicKitten]

10. I don't know if the Greens put much a dent in any of the big races.

I think it's important to start at the local levels and build a viable third party from the ground up.

[LoZoccolo]

12. I think it's important to squash the third party before they get the moxie to fuck up bigger things.

Personally.

[AtomicKitten]

22. I understand how you feel.

I have mixed feelings about the Green Party, having written a column in one of their papers for several years. We are so close on so many issues, but REALLY cross swords when it comes to elections when they are content to be spoilers. I think we really parted company when they ran a candidate against Paul Wellstone. That made no sense to me. Plus there is the issue of the GOP using the Green Party as their own personal hand-puppet. So, from where I sit right now at this particular point in time, I will agree with your sentiments, especially because you expressed yourself without a personal attack. I appreciate that.

[Lindacooks]

26. They're making a big difference in the MN governor race.

As usual.

Which is why we keep getting repuke governors.

[davidwparker]

13. That's not the LIBERAL Green party. It is very confusing.

Don't blame the liberal Greens.

[LoZoccolo]

17. Would someone please explain me the difference between a spoiler and a spoiler??

Explain me the difference between Greens, Independent Greens, and Republicans while you're at it.

[mainegreen]

21. Independant Green is a Virginia party that has no affiliation to the Green Virginia Party

They are tools that basically stole the green party name. They are conservative. Imagine Pat Buchanan running as an Independent Democrat. The *real* green party of Virginia chose to sit this one out to help support the dems.

More info at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Green_Party_of_Virginia

[LoZoccolo]

23. That doesn't matter if the kamikaze suicide-bomber left still votes for them. n/t

[mainegreen]

24. There is no evidence *who* the voters were for them.

To put this is perspective 7% of dems are reported to have broke ranks here.
Don't blames the greens for this one! It really wasn't us this time!

[Jed Dilligan]

36. Hmmm.

You think they are insane, but still demand their support? Not exactly effective campaigning.

[Solon]

38. Unlike you, I would imagine that the "suicidal left" actually know who they vote for. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

14. Wait until the election is over to blame it on the Greens

[MGD]

16. It doesn't look like it.

[RummyTheDummy]

18. Repukes fund the Green Party

It's their little shadow party.

[AtomicKitten]

19. that, sir, is the truth

and THAT really pisses me off

[enigmacat]

29. Links? Proof?

[AtomicKitten]

30. here's a start

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001256.php

you can google the rest (GOP funds Green Party)

[lindisfarne]

20. We only need either the House or the Senate to stop Mad King George.

from doing his idiotic things. And only getting 1 may improve our chances in 2008 - because the Democrats won't control congress and can't be blamed exclusively for not passing certain laws, changing/upholding certain policies, and so on.

Having both House and Senate doesn't change a lot (although it would help in Supreme Court justice confirmations) because we wouldn't have a supermajority to override Bush vetoes.

[smb]

27. Oh, Quit Whining

The Greens, or Independent Greens, or whatever they are, didn't change the result in Virginia.

Now, if you want to see an example of a third party possibly having changed a result....

198,302 Jon Tester (Democratic)
195,455 Conrad Burns (Republican)
 10,324 Stan Jones (Libertarian)

[bbgrunt]

40. my thoughts exactly.

[moobu2]

28. They tried too, they love to fuck up elections for some reason

[enigmacat]

31. We, as Dems, should be strong enough where we don't NEED to take 3rd party votes.

This same old, boring, cliched attacking of third parties is SOOOOOOOO tired.
This may not be "Green Underground", but as Democrats, I thought we were better than this same old blame game.

[Solon]

33. The Independent Greens do NOT equal the Green party!

I swear, everybody here complaining about the "greens" are looking like fools. The party in question is CONSERVATIVE for crying out loud!

[mcg]

39. Info on the Indy Green Party

Info on the Indy Green Party:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Green_Party_of_Virginia

I think the actions of both have been misguided and that a new
strategy is needed. Anything that helps the republicans is bad.

Rather than run candidates against Democrats at risk, like Al Gore,
why not be more politically savvy?

[struggle4progress]

34. That sounds like mean-spirited scape-goating to me: it's a sure bet

that only a fraction of the eligible people are even registered to vote, and of registered Virginians, 48% didn't vote, while about 0.6% voted Green.

You think those 0.6% would have voted for Webb if it weren't for the Green party. But I'd bet many said "I voted Green cuz why the fug bother choosin between Pa Caca and some Ronnie Raygun leftover ... ?" and I bet they might as happily have stayed at home ...

Gore, of course, won Florida, which was stolen by a thuggish behavior on the ground and in the chambers of the Supreme Court. Blaming the Greens for this merely distracts attention from our real enemies.

Personally, I think Greens tend to be politically naive and not serious enough: if they were serious, they would do the hard work to build a viable party at the local level, instead of naively wasting everybody's time running candidates for national office. Having said that, I see no real advantage in pissing on the Greens. Look, instead, in a more general way at the political drop-outs: they have issues that aren't being addressed, and some would certainly vote if they thought there was a real.

[Solon]

35. It WASN'T the GREEN PARTY!!!!!!

Its the Conservative INDEPENDENT Green Party of Virginia, other than having Green in the name, they have absolutely no affiliation with the Green Party of Virginia, in fact, they are a conservative party who seem to concentrate on building Light Rail systems.

[struggle4progress]

37. OK ... Got it ... *sigh* But everything I just said remains valid:

Whoever they are, they got 0.6% of the vote; people who vote for them might very very well not vote otherwise; and if they were serious, they would being organizing locally rather than running a campaign for national office before having local experience. So what's the point of pissing on them?

And while the real Green party might care whether the Virginia group is the real Green party or not, I'd guess nobody else does care much ...

[JPZenger]

41. For several hours Tues. night it looked like the Greens had screwed us

For several hours Tuesday night, it definitely looked like the Greens had screwed the Democrats out of control of the US Senate. If only a small portion of Green voters had voted for Webb, Webb would have been ahead without question.

I wonder if the Greens in Virginia were funded by Santorum/Allen supporters in the same way that the Green Party in PA. was funded.

The Greens are welcome to run, but they should be willing to step aside when they realize they could screw up the margin of victory for Dems. What was so irritating about 2000 was that if only a small percentage of Green voters in Florida had voted for Gore, Bush would not be President today. Nader had a choice to pull back in the battleground states and to endorse the vote trading system that was sent up on the internet. Instead, Nader ran hard in the battleground states up until the end, holding rallies attracting tens of thousands of voters. Cheney-Bush Inc. and KKKarl Rove are still thankful to Nader.

[grasswire]

42. yeah, where is "dimes worth of difference" Ralph these days?

(spit)