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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:24 AM
Original message
The view from a Washington caucus
We had quite a day. As you can see, we've been a little busy today, so this was the first chance I had to post on DU. Since I am a Dean supporter, we're bloodied but unbroken. We live in a small town with a supposedly overwhelming Republican population.

Our caucus was packed. Those who are typically at the Duvall caucus said that the turnout was overwhelming. It took the first half hour of the caucus time to get the line registered and in the door. While I was out in the hallway with my Dean brochures and stickers, the Kerry contingent arrived in matching T-shirts ("The Real Deal",) and gosh, how shocked was I? A nice anti-Dean hit piece.

Yes, you read that right.

They passed it out to everyone in line. It was purportedly a "comparison" between Kerry's positions and Dean's positions. I found three different inaccuracies in the first two issues that were being discussed. The Kerry supporters were also very contentious. ("Why waste your vote? Vote for Kerry.") Even Kerry supporters were a bit embarrassed by the antics of the Kerry campaign volunteers, and other Dem candidate supporters were just plain angry. Being the sassy, outspoken person I am, I wasn't going to let this one go. I asked the female Kerry supporter why she thought it was acceptable for Kerry to vote for IWR, the Patriot Act, and the Omnibus bill, and miss upwards of 50% of other votes. She responded with "Well, it was going to pass anyway, and the Patriot Act has a sunset clause." I asked her how people damaged by the loss of their civil rights were ever going to get them back. She didn't want a lot of discussion with me after that.

This is interesting to me. The Kerry people are going out of their way to be nasty, to hit-piece and smear Howard Dean, then they think that we're just supposed to go to the voters' booth and vote for their guy, with no repercussions? I might vote ABB, but I won't support Kerry.

Our precinct split between Dean and Clark. I am a delegate to the next level. I plan to raise hell there, too.

Julie
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Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Julie - my WA smalltown caucus was identical ...
...in some respects.

Overwhelmingly republican area.
"Packed" (as is relative to a small town)
Unprecedented turnout.
Dean/Kerry split - with Kerry leading
Im a delegate to the next level as well (Kucinich)


There was a LOT of support for Dean - and another precinct lost a Kucinich delegate or 2 after being "forcefully" (not the right word) swayed by Dean voters - 5 Kucinich people switched.

There was also a lot of support for Kerry. NO meanies though.

The only table with literature I saw was for Dean.
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woofless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ours was different, thank goodness.
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 12:43 AM by woofless
I am embarassed that you had that happen. I was the Kerry lieutenant for our precinct and there were Kerry, Dean and Kucinich supporters present. We all had a nice visit and some very respectful conversation. It was a good experience for all and the way it "should" be I think. There are idiots everywhere as we are all painfully aware.

edit; spelling
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Individuals should take the blame for what happened.
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 03:45 PM by blm
To blame Kerry just seems wrong.

Kerry and Clark people didn't blame Dean, himself, for the antics and flyers from over zealous Dean supporters.

Sorry those individuals made the caucus an unpleasant experience, Julie.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's Pretty Much What We've Seen All Over DU
Nice strategy, isn't it?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Read the archives for all of 2003 then make that claim.
.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. I lived it, he's right
no need to search archives.

Julie
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westcoastbias Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Same experience in Shoreline, WA
Our caucus turnout was higher than loftly expectations. Many of the Dean, Clark and Kucininch people won't migrate to Kerry. Most people were not even aware of Edwards.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. How many do you believe were at the Shoreline caucus?
Ours had five precincts; we filled the elementary school gym. One of our friends went to his Redmond caucus. They'd planned for 80 people and got 300.

>Many of the Dean, Clark and Kucininch people won't migrate to Kerry.<

I'll go uncommitted if Dean withdraws before the next step. I'm sick inside that we're voting once again for a candidate I consider having less than my best interests at heart.

The Clark people stood up for their man; they did a great job. The Kucinich people were as peace-loving as their candidate. As you mentioned, Edwards wasn't on anyone's radar screen.

I was thrilled, though, to see the numbers of people at the caucus. We'll have to work twice as hard to GOTV, though; the Pugs will use this as a tool to whip their base into a frenzy.

Julie
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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. really, there were Kerry supporters who were rude and handing out
hit pieces on Dean? And the Dean supporters would not switch? You should make sure the people who are on this board don't know people in Shoreline before making a claim like this.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Caucusing and delegates
>really, there were Kerry supporters who were rude and handing out hit pieces on Dean?<

Yes, and they were the talk of our caucus in Duvall. We went to the after party in Seattle yesterday; since I'd managed to get my hands on a copy of the flyer the Kerry folks were handing out, it's now in the hands of Dean staffers.

>And the Dean supporters would not switch?<

I won't. I can't speak for anyone else.

>You should make sure the people who are on this board don't know people in Shoreline before making a claim like this.<

Maybe you need to reread the response to my original post from the person at Shoreline's caucus. The responder commented on their experience.

I'd also like to mention that we're natives, so "knowing people in Shoreline" isn't as exotic as you might think.

Julie





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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. My reply was not to you. I have no way of knowing what happened at the
original posters caucus. I cannot comment on that. But when the poster, who I was reply to, said the caucus in Shoreline was the same. As in mostly Dean, rude Kerry people and no one switching, I happen to know that is not true. As for your native comment, it makes no sense to me. I could care less about where you are from. I have a sister-in-law who was at the shoreline caucus and she gave me a very different story about that caucus. According to her, there were Dean supporters switching their support at the caucus. A couple of them to Kerry. She also said that there was quite a showing for Kerry as well as Dean.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The poster you replied to was referring to the high turn out,
not the quality of the people there.

You might want to read that post again. ;-)
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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Okay, well I still take issue with the Dean supporters not migrating.
Dean lost supporters in the second vote after the talks.
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Johnyawl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. You were at the party in Seattle?!

The Caucus returns party at the Machinists Hall? How come we didn't see you? Geni and I were there, we were at the end of a table near the beer line <grin> fracing the door, hoping to see people we know.

I'm sorry to hear that a few few over zealous fools spoiled your day, our experience was nothing like that. The 47th district met in the Auburn HS cafeteria, with a record breaking turnout.(or so said the oldtimers) It was pretty evenly didvided between Dean and Kerry people, with a handful of Kucinich supporters. The delegate total at the end was Kerry 23, Dean 19, Kucinich 7.

We had no rude or obnoxious behavior from any side. Lots of fire and passion, and firm comittements, but it was all very civil.

And the Party in Seattle was absolutely amazing! (well, the chili sucked, but that was the only negative) The crowd was awesome, and the responses to all the announced candidates was pretty much universal acclimation, and any reference to defeating Bush brought the house down. The Clark contingent was the smallest, but loudest. Will Durst was worth the price of admission alone, and Geni and I got to spend quite a bit of time talking to him afterwards.

I know it's hard when your guy loses (I've been there), and especially when you've been subjected to the behavior of a bunch of jerks. I didn't see anything like what you're describing, either at the caucus or at the party afterwards.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Hi Johnyawl
>The Caucus returns party at the Machinists Hall? How come we didn't see you? Geni and I were there, we were at the end of a table near the beer line <grin> fracing the door, hoping to see people we know.<

We never made it to the Machinist's Hall. (Bummer!) We were at the New Orleans Restaurant in Pioneer Square with the Dean folks. We're sad we didn't get to see you and Geni, though; we would have loved to see you!

The party you both went to sounded like a blast. We had a great time, too. (I had a "I'm Howard Dean's Special Interest" sign pinned to the front of my shirt. The people at the party really liked it. The people on the street glanced to read what the sign said, but for the most part, ignored me. I'm sure it was pretty tame compared to some of the stuff people see on the street in downtown Seattle every day!) The guy standing next to us had no button, so Eric took my Dean button off and gave it to the guy. One of the Dean staffers bellied up to the bar a short time later and ended up giving me one of his lapel pins when I gave him my copy of the "hit piece".

Congratulations to you and Geni on how well your candidate did. It's great that you got to talk to Will Durst!

Julie

p.s. There's another cat show this next weekend; I'll bet Betsy would like to see you both as much as we would! If you'd like, I'll send you the particulars in PM...
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. *grin*
My candidate was actually Kucinich - and I got it on the record that in the preliminary vote count, I was supporting Dennis. I am, however, very much a pragmatist, and since we had 8 people for our precinct, and I was the only Kucinich supporter, I had to switch in order to go on as a delegate. I was fully prepared to do that; I'll support any of the remaining candidates. There are admirable qualities to every one of them, namely that they won't destroy our environment, abrogate our civil liberties, give huge tax breaks to the wealthy, and start unilateral wars based on lies.

LET'S SEND CRAWFORD BACK THEIR VILLAGE IDIOT!

I'm still kicking myself that I didn't invite Will Durst out for a beer. I'll bet you anything he'd have accepted - he was really friendly.

Hope to see you next weekend at the cat show! :hi:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Important question:
How long did your brownies last? ;-)
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Caucus refreshments
>How long did your brownies last? ;-)<

I wish we would have had brownies. The coffee was completely gone, but there were several dozen donuts left. (They weren't Krispy Kremes!)

Was there food at your caucus?

Julie
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mydawgmax Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. Our Caucus in Sammamish was very civil
It had about 15 precincts with a couple of hundred in attendance. While Kerry dominated - I was a Kerry supporter, I didn't see any obnoxious treatment at all. We had a very lively and respectful conversation at our precinct. Everyone one was very spirited, lots of cheering for Dean when his delegate count was read aloud, likewise for Kerry, Edwards, and Kucinich.

I really wonder about all the reports of rude Kerry supporters. It sounds bad, makes the candidate sound bad, enhances ones feelings of victim hood if they support a different candidate. I'm sure some Kerry liutenants are rude, I've enountered overbearing Dean supporters as well. But I seriously doubt it is a characteristic unique to one candidates supporters.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. About rude supporters in caucuses..
I live in Gig Harbor, which is pretty conservative. The rude people in my precinct were several Kerry folks, but they were the ones that had identified themselves as ex-republicans, I'm grateful for their conversion to dump Bush.. but man.. they were so intense and argumentative. I felt sorry for the people they let loose on. It was so counter productive! The other one was a Kucinich guy.. who suprsed me, the other Kucinich supporters I've met are so cool. WHen a guy says to me, after I nicely let him know about Dean's success in health care, that "Dean looks like he lies every time he opens his mouth", then I realize it's a personal thing, not indicative of Kucinich. As it is with the Kerry people. There was one intense robo-Dean supporter, he was annoying, but not rude.

I met tons of really cool people at the caucus. We all agreed that the Daily SHow has become a staple of getting our politic news.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hi Julie. Could you tell us what the piece said? Was it official?
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Hi Sensitivity
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 10:24 PM by JulieRB
It wasn't an official piece, which I didn't find out till after the caucus was over. (I picked one up off the floor where someone else had dropped it.) It was the usual stuff -- John Kerry was working in the Senate while Howard Dean's unemployed and campaigning, bla bla bla. Howard Dean received the sanction of the NRA. Howard Dean is considered a "nightmare" by the Sierra Club. There was also a lot of stuff on Dean's health coverage plans that was, frankly, a load of crap. I gave it to the Dean staffer, and I didn't make a copy, but if I run across another one, I'll summarize it a bit better for everyone.

If I had learned before we left that it was not campaign-sanctioned, I would have said something to the young couple that were handing them out -- i.e., don't make your candidate look bad by handing this stuff out.

The Kerry supporters in our precinct were very nice people. There was a bit of spirited discussion on the merits of each candidate, but I feel fairly positive that when I see some of them at the next meeting, there will be friendly greetings. We were both surprised at the number of pre-teens and teens attending with parents. (DH said, "I hope that they get extra credit at school for this.")

The Kucinich supporters were handing out a brochure of his "Prayer For America" speech. I was really glad to get it, because that speech has meant a lot to me ever since I read the text of it after it was delivered.

Julie
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why Would They Bother About Dean?
Obviously, there are unfortunate people drawn to every campaign. I regret that this went on, because it is hardly representative of the Kerry people I am familiar with.

Not that two wrongs make a right, but also I can't help but wonder if there may have been one or two Dean supporters that may have had a disparaging word for Senator Kerry.

I am sorry that you will sit out in November if Kerry the choice against Bush. It seems like biting your nose to spite your face, but you are entitled to your opinion.
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