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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:31 AM
Original message
Rove on NPR: "Real"polls he has access to - GOP wins all
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Rove_dukes_it_out_wit...
"Not that you would be exhibiting a bias or anything like that," Rove said. "You're just making a comment."

"I'm looking at all the same polls that you're looking at every day," Seigel responded

"No you're not!" Rove exclaimed.

Rove said that he was reviewing 68 polls a week, and that "unlike the general public, I'm allowed to see the polls on the individual races," as opposed to public polls reported in the media.

"You may be looking at four or five public polls a week that talk about attitudes nationally, but that do not impact the outcome," Rove said.

Rove claimed that the polls "add up to a Republican Senate and a Republican House."

"You may end up with a different math, but you're entitled to your math," Rove said. "I'm entitled to 'the' math.
full transcript here
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=63...

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. What polls? the Diebold Polling Service perhaps?
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. The kind he reported to W in 2004 when exit polls said they were toast
The ones they are cooking right now. manufacturing reality works on more levels than one.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. My thoughts exactly
The results have already been "programmed".
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. that guy really needs a good extradition to the Hague
that would clear his fudgy little mind. :grr:

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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
41. "The Hague" not "the Hague".
Edited on Fri Oct-27-06 08:51 AM by deaniac21
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. "I'm allowed to see the polls on the individual races"
1. Allowed by whom?
2. As far as I know, we see the polls on individual races too and they show the GOP getting their ass kicked. What's he talking about? Or I should say, which orifice is he talking out of?
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fuzzyball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. We will find out on November 8th that Karl Rove is a liar and pompous ass
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. He's just notifying us that the fix is in. We still have to vote!
He knows which races are guaranteed.

They "create reality," after all!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. Rove must fine-tune calculations to make fix seem plausable - just enough to
keep the GOP in control even if it's only by one seat per house & senate, although he only had to control one candidate in 2004, with many players involved in mid-terms it will require a fine tuning in voting gear and the players behind the scenes to work in unison.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. He's really full of himself, isn't he,
pulling a "I'm more important than the American public." Gross and aggravating. :puke:
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe Karl needs to pony up those "real polls" and prove it! n/t
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. The best thing we can do is get out in LARGE NUMBERS AND VOTE
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. This is a tactic...ignore it
Rove does not have access to some super secret polling technique that no one else has access too, and has no more insight into how voting will go than any reputable pollster.

Statements like his serve two purposes...

1. Bolster the spirits of demoralized Republicans. Give them reason to think that the public polls are all wrong so they won't slow down their efforts

2. Make Democrats nervous, perhaps suppress the turnout among our base. He has a mostly undeserved reputation for pulling rabbits out of his hat which many Democrats have bought in to. His reputation on this score is severely overblown. Despite the shenanigans in Ohio, pre-election polls were very close to the final result in virtually every state in 2004

So bottom line...ignore Rove...and move forward. We are poised for a very big night!


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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. Thank you
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DocSavage Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. He is most
likly seeing raw numbers from polls that are commissioned by the WH or the RNC. The DNC has the same number crunchers. Do you think that the raw numbers are telling them somthing? I do. That is why the whispers from the DNC are "hold your horses, slow down a bit on the victory dance".

The polls that you and I see daily are washed and waxed for public consumption. We never see the raw data. And, if I have a news organization, I am going to publish the poll that best supports the story that I am doing. Fox does it, ABC Does it. Differnt agendas, different polls cited.

It would behove every one to admit that Rove is a smart guy. The republicans did with Carvill, may not have liked him, but respected his political smarts.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I was just about to post this. He's looking at raw data
and extrapolating things to match.

There may be indicators for white men, single white women, single black women etc. that Rove is measuring/evaluating/spinning....

It's impossible to say what he's REALLY looking at but what's obvious is that Dems need to get out and vote in large numbers to overcome any trending Rove may be spinning (or Diebold manipulations in close races).
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. "Politics is a complex equation," Rove says. umm. dirty politics sure is.
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. They're going down. The age of Rove is over. n/t
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Let's not get so sure of ourselves.....
I was sure Gore won in 2000!!

They are talking about power surges and messing with the Election right at this moment on my Noon TV News!
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I refuse to buy into the Rove bogeyman anymore. They're done. :) n/t
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. i hope they are not manipulating the public polls to
fool us into letting down our guard?

ellen fl
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Dem campaigns do their own polling
so they usually have a good idea of where they stand and base their campaigns on that information. None of the Dems I know running this time around is letting up for a second, no matter how far ahead they are.

Dems have decided this time around they need more than 52% of the vote to secure a win and they're not slowing down campaigning even then.

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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. thanks, i feel better now. eom
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah his own biased polls
Edited on Thu Oct-26-06 11:34 AM by SouthernBelle82
If I was there with him saying that I would have told him he was full of shit and to prove it. All they do is the same thing: secrecy. Whether it's Iraq or "the polls" or whatever. Rove has shit.
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well now, this data is based on REAL state by state polls:
http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2006.html

Projected New House*: 227 Democrats 206 Republicans 2 Ties

http://www.electoral-vote.com:2006 /

They keep the Senate, we take the house.

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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Secret polls? Poleeze!
Not that he'd be trying to cover up an election theft, or anything like that...
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. I tuned in shortly after this interview began.
I'm not familiar with Rove's voice and didn't realize it was him until the announcer said so at the very end of the segment. My impression while initially listening to the interview: someone desperately spinning who knew he was spouting bullshit. Sounded like a guy trying to convince himself that his girlfriend hadn't really dumped him. (Yes, she has. America has kicked your sorry ass to the curb.)

My opinion didn't alter upon learning the identity of the speaker. Rove is lying about the polls. If any exist, they're cooked, and he knows it.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. Just trying to spin stuff to keep it from being worse than it is...
if they acknowledged they expect to lose everthing, even more republicans would stay home...
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. If he's mfgg plausibility for stolen elections, we NEED TO ACT
--to DEMAND that he tell us who's doing his polls, give examples of where and why they're more reliable, explain why they're secret.

And we need to publicize the possibility that he's simply trying to create plausibility for manufactured election results.

I'm rather shocked that even here at DU, so few folks seem aware of this possibility.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've been thinking about this interview since I first read the transcript.
In public, Rove is all about manufacturing political narratives. This time around, it's "don't trust the polls, *I've* got the REAL polls, and they say we're doing great." The question is, for whose consumption is that narrative intended? First, conservative donors: if they think the election's a lost cause, they'll stop giving money--nobody wants to throw good money into an election that's already a done deal. Second, the base: for Republicans, turnout will be the key. Their GOTV machine is legendary for good reason--they're on the phones and gassing upthe busses while we sit here typing on our little website. If the base thinks the election is as good as lost, there's less reason for them to turn out. Third, and this is the key to Rove's whole electoral strategy, the media: your polls are crap, mine are better. THAT's why the election results never match your pre-election polls OR the exit polls--because YOUR polls are fatally flawed, and mine (Rove's) aren't. This narrative allows Rove to deflect accusations of electoral fraud--voter suppression, absentee ballot tossing/stuffing, electronic vote-flipping, the works--and gives him an almost unassailable answer for any reporter with the cojones to ask why the outcome differed so much from the polls. "Because," Karl will say, "your polls sucked. I told you so, right here on NPR. I knew what the outcome would be all along."
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WHAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. "How many fingers do you see?"...
(electrical zapping)

Jason...4

Big Brother...5

(more of the same)
(ditto)

Jason...How can I say 5 when all I see is 4?

(zap zap)

Jason...I want to believe there are 5.

(...)

Big Brother...Do you really want to believe there are 5? Don't you really want to SEE 5.


Seems like 1984 to me...
(paraphrasing from the movie)
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. That's a Star Trek TNG thing.
The one where Capt. Picard is captured by the Cardassians and gets tortured and stuff.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. A GREAT one. "I see FOUR lights."
Edited on Thu Oct-26-06 03:01 PM by calimary
I think we just need to keep working like crazy - for a mandate so unspinnable that it can't be an election easily stolen. DO NOT GET COMPLACENT. We have NOT won ANYTHING yet. Eyes on the prize, guys. BTW, I think the post upthread that enumerated several reasons why kkkarl is saying this stuff - makes a whole lotta sense. He's talking to the damned accursed base. AND to the underwriters in that base, whose wallets might close if they think their favorite candidate or incumbent is DOA.

It's post 25 - by smoogatz.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. Lol - wishful thinking from a traitor who should be punished
His time will come.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. Flashback to election night 2004 (via BBC):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3987237.stm
Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.
He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
32. Just like the "polling" that goes on inside Diebold machines
While Rove certainly does have access to internal polls that most of us will never see, the fact is that internal polls are certainly no better than the polls we see in the newspapers and are often actually much less accurate. There is no way in hell that any reputable internal poll would show Republicans winning however, but Rove needs to make people believe there is a chance the Republicans win so when they do steal elections (and believe me they WILL steal elections) people won't be quite as suspicious.

The bottom line is that we need to get out in big numbers on election day, but we can not kid ourselves into believing this will be all over on election day. Be prepared, I think there will be some big battles in court after the election.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. Please see my post, "Six more days to request an Absentee Ballot in
California," the bottom section "The 2006 Elections."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

As I said there, "The fundamental problem is that there is NO CERTAINTY about election results, which makes it possible for their buds in the war profiteering corporate news monopolies to spin a total reversal of the pre-election polls on election day."

THAT is the long term problem that we must address. The Democrats should be wiping the floor with the Bushites this time round, and should have at least won, if not by a landslide, in 2004. The war was already a mess then. The torture had been exposed. The treason of outing CIA agents. A skyrocketed deficit. The lying, the secrecy, the evidence of extraordinary corruption. And the exit polls said Kerry HAD WON.

Something not right here. Something really, really not right. The outcome of this election should not be in such doubt.

The fact is they have the capability of EASILY stealing it--easily, undetectably, non-transparently, with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code in all the voting machines and central tabulators, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations.

We MUST face this fact--and get to work REMOVING these goddamned corporations and their goddamned SECRET CODE from our election system. If we keep thinking only from election to election, we will never solve it. We have to think BEYOND the election. We need to do everything we can to win it, but we need to understand that the SYSTEM--the way the votes are being "counted"--is fundamentally fraudulent, and makes the results fundamentally uncertain, and highly riggable.

I don't know if the Corporate Rulers are going to let the Bushites get away with it again. They may not. But, whatever they do--permitting a stolen, or half-stolen or non-stolen election--we MUST get rid of this UNCERTAINTY and RIGGABILITY of the results, by throwing these private corporations and their "trade secret" programming out of our election system.

These highly riggable electronic voting systems were fast-tracked across the country in two years time, with $3.9 billion in funding from the Anthrax Congress (engineered by Tom Delay and Bob Ney, and abetted by Corporatist 'Democrats' like Christopher Dodd). By 2004, Karl Rove could confidently tell George Bush on election night that, despite exit polls showing Kerry winning by a 3% margin, his own "secret" polls said otherwise, and then, AFTER the election, he could attribute their win to their "invisible get out the vote campaign in the churches." No matter that the Democrats blew the Bushites away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40. No matter that the great majority of new voters, independent voters and former Nader voters voted for Kerry. Rove's "secret" polls and his "invisible" get out the vote effort were swallowed hook, line and sinker by the lapdog corporate press--in a closed system of rigged elections and post-election "explanations," in which no one in the corporate press bothers with the facts.

Facts don't matter. Numbers don't matter. Power is all.

And they went even further than that. They actually rigged their own exit polls--DOCTORED them--to force them to MATCH the results of Diebold/ES&S's secret vote tabulation formulae. (See www.TruthIsAll.net .)

Well, that was how things stood in 2004. As to the cancerous spread of Diebold, ES&S and other election theft machines, things are actually worse now, although consciousness of what the problem is has grown enormously. Ordinary people are trying to fight this rigged system with Absentee Ballot voting (a huge increase in it, all over). I say we should get out front on this indigenous protest, and provide some focus and leadership, and USE IT as a club over election officials, to force reform.

Some other things have changed as well. Why the Corporate news monopolies unleashed a putrid sex scandal on the Bushites four weeks before the election is still a mystery. War, genocide, torture, massive theft, massive spying, shredding the Constitution--they didn't care. But molesting teenage pages, that got 'em. Go figure. And the disaster in Iraq really can no longer be spun. Too many generals and other establishment types--Christ, even James Baker--are sounding the alarm. And then there was Katrina--ABC and CNN reporters standing in the mud with floating bodies around them. Hard to ignore. The colossal malfeasance of the Bushites was visible and palpable. And maybe the Bush Junta has become bad for business--and the Corporate Rulers can't see much more to be squeezed out of our pockets with tax breaks for the rich, deregulation and other pigslop gains. Better get some Democrats in there to "balance the budget" before it all comes crashing down. (Poor people, look out! The "budget balancers" are coming!)

There are also some other issues--failure of the Bushites to secure Mideast oil, China (which gets a lot of its oil from Iran) holding the paper on a lot of our enormous, unconscionable, nation-crippling debt, and the Bushites' "loss" of South America (insufficient attention to killing peasants and leftists, and destroying democratic governments south of the border), which is cutting into the profits of global corporate predators.

In sum, it might not be a totally stolen election. The trick for the Corporate Rulers will be to pad it with sufficient Bushite Democrats (like those who voted for torture and suspension of habeas corpus) to stave off impeachment (and serious investigation), and especially to stave off any real reforms that might cut seriously into their hogfest profits.

I think that's the best we can hope for, until we get rid of secret corporate vote counting.

It's good to hope and pray that they won't steal it again--and to be vigilant and active, in trying to prevent election theft, and in taking strong action if it occurs--election analysis, challenges of suspicious results, lawsuits, demands for recounts, publicity, pressure on election officials--and there are many well-organized groups and projects to "cry foul" on election fraud this time. But it's ALSO important to think long term, and to base our strategy, as the citizens of this battered and stolen country, on reality and truth. Long term, we MUST get rid of these riggable voting machines and restore transparent vote counting, if what we want is democracy.





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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. When every third Dem. e-vote flips to Rove's guy, his polls are right
Rove's little "patch" turns a 10 point Dem victory into another sqeeker win for the Repub.
Ahh... those "values voters"

:grr:
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. Karl Rove Announces Plans to Steal Election
http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/641
By David Swanson

White House political head honcho Karl Rove was interviewed by National Public Radio yesterday. He effectively announced plans to steal the coming elections. The polls point decisively to a Democratic majority in the House, and possibly in the Senate. Yet Rove told NPR he was certain of Republican majorities in both houses, and gave laughable reasons for his claim. Rove had no actual
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
39. Rove is an idiot. The events of Nov. 7, 2006 will end his political career.
Edited on Thu Oct-26-06 11:26 PM by Clarkie1
The humiliated shrub may keep turd blossom at his side for another couple of years, but after that he will be permanently unemployed.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
40. We will all see on 11/07 what level these United States have sunken to
Rove can steal the election, he's involved with Diebold and is already experienced from the 2004 election. They announce they won, Bush states; "now ya'll go about you're business and I'll go about mine" and there won't be any further comments regarding illegal elections!

At this point the American government and especially what it then stands for is in my opinion over, nothing more then a memory of what was once respected, Dr. Kissenger took care of that!

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