3. "I'm allowed to see the polls on the individual races"
1. Allowed by whom? 2. As far as I know, we see the polls on individual races too and they show the GOP getting their ass kicked. What's he talking about? Or I should say, which orifice is he talking out of?
36. Rove must fine-tune calculations to make fix seem plausable - just enough to
keep the GOP in control even if it's only by one seat per house & senate, although he only had to control one candidate in 2004, with many players involved in mid-terms it will require a fine tuning in voting gear and the players behind the scenes to work in unison.
Rove does not have access to some super secret polling technique that no one else has access too, and has no more insight into how voting will go than any reputable pollster.
Statements like his serve two purposes...
1. Bolster the spirits of demoralized Republicans. Give them reason to think that the public polls are all wrong so they won't slow down their efforts
2. Make Democrats nervous, perhaps suppress the turnout among our base. He has a mostly undeserved reputation for pulling rabbits out of his hat which many Democrats have bought in to. His reputation on this score is severely overblown. Despite the shenanigans in Ohio, pre-election polls were very close to the final result in virtually every state in 2004
So bottom line...ignore Rove...and move forward. We are poised for a very big night!
likly seeing raw numbers from polls that are commissioned by the WH or the RNC. The DNC has the same number crunchers. Do you think that the raw numbers are telling them somthing? I do. That is why the whispers from the DNC are "hold your horses, slow down a bit on the victory dance".
The polls that you and I see daily are washed and waxed for public consumption. We never see the raw data. And, if I have a news organization, I am going to publish the poll that best supports the story that I am doing. Fox does it, ABC Does it. Differnt agendas, different polls cited.
It would behove every one to admit that Rove is a smart guy. The republicans did with Carvill, may not have liked him, but respected his political smarts.
11. I was just about to post this. He's looking at raw data
and extrapolating things to match.
There may be indicators for white men, single white women, single black women etc. that Rove is measuring/evaluating/spinning....
It's impossible to say what he's REALLY looking at but what's obvious is that Dems need to get out and vote in large numbers to overcome any trending Rove may be spinning (or Diebold manipulations in close races).
so they usually have a good idea of where they stand and base their campaigns on that information. None of the Dems I know running this time around is letting up for a second, no matter how far ahead they are.
Dems have decided this time around they need more than 52% of the vote to secure a win and they're not slowing down campaigning even then.
19. I tuned in shortly after this interview began.
I'm not familiar with Rove's voice and didn't realize it was him until the announcer said so at the very end of the segment. My impression while initially listening to the interview: someone desperately spinning who knew he was spouting bullshit. Sounded like a guy trying to convince himself that his girlfriend hadn't really dumped him. (Yes, she has. America has kicked your sorry ass to the curb.)
My opinion didn't alter upon learning the identity of the speaker. Rove is lying about the polls. If any exist, they're cooked, and he knows it.
25. I've been thinking about this interview since I first read the transcript.
In public, Rove is all about manufacturing political narratives. This time around, it's "don't trust the polls, *I've* got the REAL polls, and they say we're doing great." The question is, for whose consumption is that narrative intended? First, conservative donors: if they think the election's a lost cause, they'll stop giving money--nobody wants to throw good money into an election that's already a done deal. Second, the base: for Republicans, turnout will be the key. Their GOTV machine is legendary for good reason--they're on the phones and gassing upthe busses while we sit here typing on our little website. If the base thinks the election is as good as lost, there's less reason for them to turn out. Third, and this is the key to Rove's whole electoral strategy, the media: your polls are crap, mine are better. THAT's why the election results never match your pre-election polls OR the exit polls--because YOUR polls are fatally flawed, and mine (Rove's) aren't. This narrative allows Rove to deflect accusations of electoral fraud--voter suppression, absentee ballot tossing/stuffing, electronic vote-flipping, the works--and gives him an almost unassailable answer for any reporter with the cojones to ask why the outcome differed so much from the polls. "Because," Karl will say, "your polls sucked. I told you so, right here on NPR. I knew what the outcome would be all along."
I think we just need to keep working like crazy - for a mandate so unspinnable that it can't be an election easily stolen. DO NOT GET COMPLACENT. We have NOT won ANYTHING yet. Eyes on the prize, guys. BTW, I think the post upthread that enumerated several reasons why kkkarl is saying this stuff - makes a whole lotta sense. He's talking to the damned accursed base. AND to the underwriters in that base, whose wallets might close if they think their favorite candidate or incumbent is DOA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3987237.stm Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information. He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them
32. Just like the "polling" that goes on inside Diebold machines
While Rove certainly does have access to internal polls that most of us will never see, the fact is that internal polls are certainly no better than the polls we see in the newspapers and are often actually much less accurate. There is no way in hell that any reputable internal poll would show Republicans winning however, but Rove needs to make people believe there is a chance the Republicans win so when they do steal elections (and believe me they WILL steal elections) people won't be quite as suspicious.
The bottom line is that we need to get out in big numbers on election day, but we can not kid ourselves into believing this will be all over on election day. Be prepared, I think there will be some big battles in court after the election.
As I said there, "The fundamental problem is that there is NO CERTAINTY about election results, which makes it possible for their buds in the war profiteering corporate news monopolies to spin a total reversal of the pre-election polls on election day."
THAT is the long term problem that we must address. The Democrats should be wiping the floor with the Bushites this time round, and should have at least won, if not by a landslide, in 2004. The war was already a mess then. The torture had been exposed. The treason of outing CIA agents. A skyrocketed deficit. The lying, the secrecy, the evidence of extraordinary corruption. And the exit polls said Kerry HAD WON.
Something not right here. Something really, really not right. The outcome of this election should not be in such doubt.
The fact is they have the capability of EASILY stealing it--easily, undetectably, non-transparently, with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code in all the voting machines and central tabulators, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations.
We MUST face this fact--and get to work REMOVING these goddamned corporations and their goddamned SECRET CODE from our election system. If we keep thinking only from election to election, we will never solve it. We have to think BEYOND the election. We need to do everything we can to win it, but we need to understand that the SYSTEM--the way the votes are being "counted"--is fundamentally fraudulent, and makes the results fundamentally uncertain, and highly riggable.
I don't know if the Corporate Rulers are going to let the Bushites get away with it again. They may not. But, whatever they do--permitting a stolen, or half-stolen or non-stolen election--we MUST get rid of this UNCERTAINTY and RIGGABILITY of the results, by throwing these private corporations and their "trade secret" programming out of our election system.
These highly riggable electronic voting systems were fast-tracked across the country in two years time, with $3.9 billion in funding from the Anthrax Congress (engineered by Tom Delay and Bob Ney, and abetted by Corporatist 'Democrats' like Christopher Dodd). By 2004, Karl Rove could confidently tell George Bush on election night that, despite exit polls showing Kerry winning by a 3% margin, his own "secret" polls said otherwise, and then, AFTER the election, he could attribute their win to their "invisible get out the vote campaign in the churches." No matter that the Democrats blew the Bushites away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40. No matter that the great majority of new voters, independent voters and former Nader voters voted for Kerry. Rove's "secret" polls and his "invisible" get out the vote effort were swallowed hook, line and sinker by the lapdog corporate press--in a closed system of rigged elections and post-election "explanations," in which no one in the corporate press bothers with the facts.
Facts don't matter. Numbers don't matter. Power is all.
And they went even further than that. They actually rigged their own exit polls--DOCTORED them--to force them to MATCH the results of Diebold/ES&S's secret vote tabulation formulae. (See www.TruthIsAll.net.)
Well, that was how things stood in 2004. As to the cancerous spread of Diebold, ES&S and other election theft machines, things are actually worse now, although consciousness of what the problem is has grown enormously. Ordinary people are trying to fight this rigged system with Absentee Ballot voting (a huge increase in it, all over). I say we should get out front on this indigenous protest, and provide some focus and leadership, and USE IT as a club over election officials, to force reform.
Some other things have changed as well. Why the Corporate news monopolies unleashed a putrid sex scandal on the Bushites four weeks before the election is still a mystery. War, genocide, torture, massive theft, massive spying, shredding the Constitution--they didn't care. But molesting teenage pages, that got 'em. Go figure. And the disaster in Iraq really can no longer be spun. Too many generals and other establishment types--Christ, even James Baker--are sounding the alarm. And then there was Katrina--ABC and CNN reporters standing in the mud with floating bodies around them. Hard to ignore. The colossal malfeasance of the Bushites was visible and palpable. And maybe the Bush Junta has become bad for business--and the Corporate Rulers can't see much more to be squeezed out of our pockets with tax breaks for the rich, deregulation and other pigslop gains. Better get some Democrats in there to "balance the budget" before it all comes crashing down. (Poor people, look out! The "budget balancers" are coming!)
There are also some other issues--failure of the Bushites to secure Mideast oil, China (which gets a lot of its oil from Iran) holding the paper on a lot of our enormous, unconscionable, nation-crippling debt, and the Bushites' "loss" of South America (insufficient attention to killing peasants and leftists, and destroying democratic governments south of the border), which is cutting into the profits of global corporate predators.
In sum, it might not be a totally stolen election. The trick for the Corporate Rulers will be to pad it with sufficient Bushite Democrats (like those who voted for torture and suspension of habeas corpus) to stave off impeachment (and serious investigation), and especially to stave off any real reforms that might cut seriously into their hogfest profits.
I think that's the best we can hope for, until we get rid of secret corporate vote counting.
It's good to hope and pray that they won't steal it again--and to be vigilant and active, in trying to prevent election theft, and in taking strong action if it occurs--election analysis, challenges of suspicious results, lawsuits, demands for recounts, publicity, pressure on election officials--and there are many well-organized groups and projects to "cry foul" on election fraud this time. But it's ALSO important to think long term, and to base our strategy, as the citizens of this battered and stolen country, on reality and truth. Long term, we MUST get rid of these riggable voting machines and restore transparent vote counting, if what we want is democracy.
White House political head honcho Karl Rove was interviewed by National Public Radio yesterday. He effectively announced plans to steal the coming elections. The polls point decisively to a Democratic majority in the House, and possibly in the Senate. Yet Rove told NPR he was certain of Republican majorities in both houses, and gave laughable reasons for his claim. Rove had no actual
40. We will all see on 11/07 what level these United States have sunken to
Rove can steal the election, he's involved with Diebold and is already experienced from the 2004 election. They announce they won, Bush states; "now ya'll go about you're business and I'll go about mine" and there won't be any further comments regarding illegal elections!
At this point the American government and especially what it then stands for is in my opinion over, nothing more then a memory of what was once respected, Dr. Kissenger took care of that!
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