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I hate to say this.... But we are truly powerless in this country....

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:59 PM
Original message
I hate to say this.... But we are truly powerless in this country....
You, me, all of us on the left or center left or for that matter, the center matter, not one bit to the opinion makers in this country of "ours"....

ABC/Disney and all the rest of corporate America could care less what we think...

We raised legitimate concerns about how a fictional account of a recent event would effect those watching and nothing happened...

The right squawked about the Ronald Reagen biopic, and they yanked it faster than you can say quick draw McDraw....

Over the years, American corporations have seen they are pretty much free as they continue to tramp on the rights of individuals, do what ever they want to the environment and behave in such outrageously ethically challenged matters without any real governor on their actions...

This 9/11 movie is only the beginning of what is going to happen over the next two months as we watch the GOP and the corporate interests systematically destroy what is left of American Democracy...

I mourn for my county...

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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Depends on how much they edited the piece of $hit.....
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. There were NO EDITS! :(
Not from what we saw.

The entire show focused on the lost attempts to capture Bin Laden, all during the Clinton Administration. Hopefully, tomorrow will focus on the failed Bush Administration, but I'm not holding my breath.

And, I forgot about how the Reagan documentary was pulled - yet this one went straight ahead. Sometimes I really do feel doomed. Like tonight.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
46. An article posted here on DU said it amounted to One Minute of edits...n/t
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NRaleighLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am not a defeatist person, but I share your grief at the current
state of affairs in our country. It just all seems to be going in the wrong, direction, the fights seem futile...I thought that the pendulum swung, hit the right hand barrier and was heading back, but not enough of our public either thinks (or is capable of thinking) or cares.
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AJ9000 Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. The pendulem can't swing back without a media. That is
the key.

We have to develop our own media like the right has done, in order to facilitate a progressive politcal movement.
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primative1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Shades of 2004
This adventure reminds me ominously of how some network whos name I forget went ahead and ran 2 hours of commercial free Kerry smear right before that election and called it news. The FEC ignored our complaints then as they did now.
The MEDIA is the enemy.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. It was Sinclair - but we did stop in in many areas of the country
The reason it was stopped was not something the Kerry campaign did - they filed with the FCC and FEC and did all they could, it was not stopped by other Democrats bringing their moral weight against it, it was to a large degree stopped by people telling Sinclair they would fight them and anyone who advertises on their channels. The MEDIA is the enemy - but they need us as viewers.

This is not intended to attack the Kerry campaign's handling of this - they hit it hard and actually were sued (in a suit recently dismissed with prejudice) for defaming the filmmaker! It is saying that the situation is bad, the media is complicit with the Republicans - but we did get a partial victory.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. The pendulum needs a little oil. The law books need dusting off.
The court room needs to be cleaned. The time will come when the media will be unmuzzled.

The prison cells are ready.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fascism.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Scew ABC, watch CBS
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. McGraw not McDraw
I share your agony.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. i stand with you in morning for my country too.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Their billiionaires seem to be doing more regarding media...
...than our billionaires.

All it would take it is one Democratic billionaire with the willpower to put "Air America Radio" on FM in every big city in the US.

Attention: if there is a millionaire or a billionaire reading this, please contact Sheldon Drobny about investing in his new company "Nova M Radio" to buy radio stations to play "Air America."
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. Exactly!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
44. I've been screaming this for years - EVERY major media buy opportunity
was passed over by Dem investors while GOP ACTIVISTS were snatching them up.

Why? What good did it do to have Clinton cabinet and officeholders in all those "investment" companies?

I remember all the fanfare and hope that accompanied each announcement and thought that FINALLY there would be some correction of the market that was tilting so heavily for the GOP worldview. Instead, it became WORSE as more and more opportunities to make serious media buys were left ignored.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hit me today...and was thinking what you say. Hope it's just a "dark mood
that we are in...just a slump.

But, I think what you say has so much truth that many of us need to heed our "GUT" feelings after this. If Clinton & Co. don't hit ABC with Mega LawSuit after all of us sent letters, called, and signed petitions...then I will know for sure there's something VERY WRONG about our Democratic Party that would allow this crap to go on for 16 years. From the time Clinton was inaugurated and the RW went after him day after day after day through the "SELECTION 2000 and what we Dems have suffered through thereafter.

Some of us ..having gone through so many years of this are ready to "BAIL."

And that's many of us who are "Actively INVOLVED" in our Party after "Selection 2000" who are getting sick of this shit where our party asks us to stand up and then seems to get "very quiet."

I am hoping good stuff is going on "behind the scenes" on this...and that we are just "impatient." I'll give them through this next Mid-Term Election. :shrug;
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I personally don't trust Clinton to do the right thing and file the
lawsuit. I fear we're all in for a big letdown.

OTOH, Sandy Berger, Madeleine Albright and others may just file their own.

And, OTOH, Hillary or their daughter might just smash Bill's head against the wall until he files the lawsuit because its their name that's being smeared as well.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I don't know what to think...I'll have a little hope more...but Shit this
is not looking good. We lay our butts on the line for these people time after time...and what do we get.

I will remain hopeful for another few days...hoping for a lawsuit. It's all I can do...but I'm not so hopeful either...that we weren't "used" once again.

I hope to be proved very wrong...
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CarlVK Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Don't look for heroics from HRC on this one.
She's too close to the warmongers and PNACers for my comfort and at this point I wouldn't trust her with a sharpened pencil.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. I wouldn't trust her with the rubber eraser end of that pencil. :) n/t
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. "might just smash Bill's head against the wall" LOL
I had to LOL at that last sentence. Good one - whatever works!! LOL!
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. You know how much I respect your thinking........
But I must say I hope you're wrong on this one......

This is a dreadfully dark and pessimistic view......

Part of me says yes, you're right.......

And the rest of me says hell no, it cannot be..........

Time will tell, though.

There must be something we can do to fix the current situation.

I'm just not savvy enough to know just what it is.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I will try to remain hopeful that a Law Suit by Clinton Folks is imminent.
I hope to hell that my "Dark View" is very, very WRONG! Believe me on this...

We need to wait...a little...but not too long given that Dems will be voting in ..what is it? 60 Days?
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Tyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. What they are creating is unsustainable
America as we know it can not survive without a large middle class, an educated populace, the free exchange of ideas, responsible fiscal policy, an effective military, a rational social welfare system, and friends and allies around the world. It's these things that make America a viable enterprise and the Fascists, Corporatists, whatever you want to call them have rejected and are destroying all of them.

They are creating an America that cannot stand as a world power or even as a "developed" country. The question is whether we can remove them from power and start deconstructing and replacing their edifice in an orderly fashion or whether they stay in power and the whole pile comes crashing down around our heads. Either way it's going to end, but the first option looks a lot better to me and I'm pretty confident that we can do it. Good things are happening. We've got to keep in mind as well that they are their own worst enemy. Since they've come to power they've come up with nothing to sell but fear and that one-trick pony is getting pretty long in the tooth.


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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. They don't care....
It's all about the money...

They think if they hae enough money, they can do what ever they please...

And they wil do what ever they please in order to keep that money...
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Tyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. They ought to care
Because their money is only paper or electric impulses on a computer screen unless they have the structure to support it. We are the ones who make their money worth something and we are the ones that they are killing. Unfortunately OUR money is only paper or electric impluses too. That's why we need to get them out before we reach the tipping point.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. If we don't "squeek by a majority" in the House we are doomed...we need
to work our butts off for that. But, another failed election with Voter Disenfranchisement though Machines and throwing folks off the polls through fraud, will be the FINAL WAKE UP CALL.

We don't have much time left ...and we must hope that we can change Congress to even have a "teeny voice" in the CHANGE that we Dems must do to correct all the dismantling of our DEMOCRACY/CONSTITUTION that BUSH CRIME FAMILY has done.

But..it's not looking like a "landslide here" given that Clinton couldn't stop 9/11 Fakeumentary. It's not looking good...but we must have hope...or at least this DU'er is trying to have HOPE!!! Not easy, though.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. ours is a very corrupt society....
perhaps the generations of reaping what others sowed is finally catching up to us. why do we, having benefitted from the theft of the very soil we walk on (from the indians) and having our society massively subsidised for hundreds of years (by slavery, then by sweatshop wages and resources stolen from all over the world etc)...maybe baby bush is just in the crudest terms the 'white guy's burden'? As bush's success dooms everybody, especially those with the most to lose, maybe the spirits have decided to force a showdown before it's too late...
somehow, this fiction that 'we' are a good people must be tossed, and the fact faced that 'we' are no better or worse then anyone else, and do not 'deserve' champagne and 5 pound steaks every day.... even our christianity has been so corrupted by power grubbers that, if left as it is, it will truly become something hideous, and 'god' might get very upset at that!
when anyone mourns for the nation, remember the people are being psych op'd out (see 911) but eventually they must decide if, well, if they want to leave a barren rock to their kids, or the garden of eden....it's their simple fukking choice! 60 million(?) people voted for latest american idol. does the fate of them suckers really bother anyone?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I know....lots of us know this who don't express it as well as you..
It's the "dark side" of America. We could have done better...we should have done better....we should have.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. We don't deserve to exist any more. Our Karma has come back
to us and all is lost.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. my post means nothing....
i think the frustration of listening to hate radio every workday is wearing me down. the well fed, well educated, well paid and well regarded men who call in to talk radio every day all have the same hypocritical opinions about everything, as if the damn wheel was just invented. they seem to be calling from offices, in the main - though the bushevik radio hosts often fast track guys on cell phones if they conform...rarely does one hear what we know is the actual majority viewpoint. (A local neocon named michael coren is now advocating nuklear attack on iran, saying those whio oppose such a thing are like nevile chamberlain etc ie appeasers!)....though i know that the majority opinion is against bush, and the rightwing, it still is a piss off to never hear anything even remotely honest about the entire bush/reactionary phenomenon, not even from public radio. And it was in that mood i posted what is obviously a selfish post; which gains our side nothing (if indeed it doesn't 'embolden' the gopigs(?))...humanity lives in a collective way, but experiences life as individuals - to blame any demographic for what's going on is childish, ignorant. the only karma we need to worry about is that which we as individuals have evoked: hell, we cannot judge the people for being complacent regards bush cuz we do not know that they are...it's the interested-party media which claims that...remember, bush lost the 2k election.... :)
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. No, you are wrong, they are terrified that's why they're doing this
They have dropped so many initiatives this summer, look at the Bolton nomination, the immigration
bill, social security reform, ban on gay marriage, all have faded away, even the Specter-I Spy
is Okay with me bill didn't make it out of committee. Believe me, instead of backtracking
or soft peddling, they escalate when threatened, it's just their MO.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. I wonder if CNN will play that movie of Poppy Bush being a hero
fighter pilot over and over and over just before the election... like they did in 2004? Trying to link Father and son...before they really knew what a lying coward he was/is. I remember every time I turned the TV on...they were repeating that movie for the umpteenth time. :puke:
I can't remember if they showed it repeatedly in 2000.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Some thoughts about why the Right is better at this
They relentlessly associate themselves with simple, visceral images and slogans (the flag, "our boys overseas"), as opposed to high ideals or policy.

Even if they talk about supposedly lofty topics like "spirituality" and "democracy," they're just using code words for "regular, white, American, Christian guys like you and me."

This symbolism is extremely valuable in connecting with and maintaining the American status quo, and it enables right-wing power brokers (the GOP, large corporations, and the religious right) them to tap into a more readily unified base than the nuanced, issue-weighing, diversity-oriented left.

Yes, I've seen the article from the anonymous marketeer that's making the rounds. But the topic here is not our party's campaign messaging, but rather why our grass roots operations dosn't strike as much fear into the hearts of big business as the right's Astroturf groups do.

If a company senses that status-quo America, the America that uncritically buys mainstream products, is turning against them (e.g., because the religious right is unhappy with the GOP or corporations), they go into panic mode.

This enables a handful of noisy puritans to scare the bejeesus out of companies. They believe, rightly or wrongly, that a word from Jerry Falwell will cripple their business.

The left mobilizes well when there's a lot at stake (the Vietnam draft), and also over ethnic issues (Million Man March, this year's immigration protests). But we clearly can't muster the same degree of influence the other guys did over "The Reagans," a substantially more trivial matter than airing a radically revisionist history about the event that currently defines American politics.

Obviously, it doesn't help that we have a media that buries the story when we hold massive protests against the Iraq War....

The bottom line is that the radical right acts like even the most insignificant issue, such as Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction, is of end-of-the-world importance, and they make it stick. And we're just shrugged off, even when our grievance is far more substantial.

So, how do we become better at this?

Winning in '06 is clearly our most important goal, but to have that happen, we'd better figure out how to get our voices heard.


___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"



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CarlVK Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. I disagree. I think the worm has turned.
And I'd agree with other posters here that stuff like the fluffodrama on ABC is an act of major desperation. It's taken 12 fucking years, but most have finally woken up to what these asshats are up to.

Call me nuts but I am overcome with confidence lately. We're gonna take this sucker back. The fascists will be gone and we can kick out the remnants of the DLC stain, in order to turn us back into a winning party again.
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Sorry, Carl - that's how I felt in 2004
False hope -- And that got me nowhere. We need to be reality-based and make a plan to combat them. Wishing goes nowhere fast.
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CarlVK Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. But since then...
Things have deteriorated at an exponential rate....

The Iraq mess gets worse daily...

Poll after poll is showing that people have largely had it with these Rethugs and they want a change....

The Democratic Party is getting purged of its dross thanks to Gov. Dean.


I'm sorry but I'm feeling GOOD
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. The "new" US Supreme Court
Forgot to mention that tidbit.

I WISH I could share your feelings, but I'm not going to be slammed down again with reality. The same polls that had Kerry winning are the same ones we acknowledge today. I believed them twice now - not again.
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Johnny Noshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Right now
in my Queens NY neighborhood there is what amounts to a Bund Rally going on ie: A 911 Memorial.Complete with marching band, Kate Smith's song you know the one and the whole damn obnoxious panoply of jingoistic uber shit. So no I have very little hope that its going to get any better anytime soon.


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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. PUULLEEZZZEE... I Live In Florida, So WHATEVER It Is That
you are drinking or swallowing, I desperately need some! In the past I've had to just stop watching the news or blogging, just watching mindless TV, reading true crime books and trying to keep myself from running in the streets screaming about what is going on, but NOTHING helps!

You always have to come back to reality, or buy yourself a very good pair of blinders or hide under a bed. This is like that movie "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers" and they are using ANYTHING they can to ruin us!

I have YET to see ONE thing happen to this administration that has done ANY real damage, so until I actually see a "done deal" I remain CYNICAL!!

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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yeah, the GOP got the Reagan movie silenced
Where was their interest in free press then?
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
35. Bush is president of half the country.
He governs for the people who put him in office. That leaves the other half of the country without any political clout.
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Babsbrain Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. What Bush and Co. Has Taken From Me

Today is the fifth anniversary of one of the most horrific act committed against the United States of America and its citizens in our time. For many who did not experience the horrors of WW2, it was THE most horrific act in modern times.

I watch the commemorations replete with wreaths, drill teams, choirs, family members, dignitaries, politicans, and government officials, with the solemn strains of Amazing Grace pervasive.

It has been five years since our sensibilities were shocked into a new way of seeing our world and the part that each one of us play. The ceremonious salute to those who paid the ultimate price should have stirred in me those once-familiar feelings of patriotism and belonging, feelings of a pride in my country, in justice and the knowledge that a world up-ended would soon find its equilibrium.

I wanted desperately to pay the tribute to the victims of 9/11 that they deserved. I wanted to properly grieve for the family members who have lived this nightmare everyday for five years.

But Bush and Co. has hijacked my grief, and it is replaced with rage and disgust.

Today, I could not grieve for all I could see was:

Bush sitting for seven, seven, seven minutes, after being told his country, my country, your country had been attacked.

Reports that Bush lied about WMDs.

Barbara Bush brushing off body counts so not to clutter her beautiful mind.

The members of the Project for the New American Century plotting to export their values world-wide, while slithering into critical positions in the government.

Jeff Gannon asking his questions to the White House staff when he should have been tending to his gay hooker business.

The Downing Street Memo.

Reports that the White House staff had been given the anthrax-antidote Cipro weeks before the anthrax attack.

The reluctance of the Bush White House to install the 9/11 Commission to investigate what happened.

The inconsistencies surrounding the elections.

The calling off the search for Osama Bin Laden.

The rising profits of Cheney and his business associates.

The billions and billions of dollars being funneled into a country that was attacked for having terrorist ties.

The Enron connection. Abramoff. Rumsfeld. Neocons. Blackwater USA. Halliburton, KBR. Tamiflu vaccine. Patriot Act. Social Security Privatization. Disenegration of Veterans Benefits. School Programs, Environmental, Social Programs slashed. Lies, Deception, Media Control. Religious alliance. Character assassination. On and on and on. Lies, Lies, Lies.

But mostly, I see Bush, sitting for seven minutesafter being told the country was under attack.

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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I grieved today.
There is no way Bush could take that from me. I won't give him the power and seeing his arrogance, he wouldn't need it.

Furthermore, I imagine the vast majority of those killed on this anniversary date did NOT vote for Bush. Recall where the deaths occurred.

Don't give him the power. He doesn't need it.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
65. yes
they have "hijacked our grief" about 9-11.

They steal everything.

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Tyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
40. WTF!
I'm sick of the pain, I'm sick of the loss, I'm sick of the moaning, I'm sick of the I don't see that it's gotten any better so it probably never will. It's a fucking funeral around here! I'm still kinda new at DU and Olney Blue in another thread warned me that optimism was not a valued commodity among the DU community. Boy was that ever a true statement. Well fair enough. Pollyannas are pretty hard to live with and we've got to be realistic about what we're up against. But Jeeze, some of us sound like our grave has been dug and all that's left for us to do is pull the dirt in over us.
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Realistic
"..... we've got to be realistic about what we're up against."

True!!
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Tyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. "Realistic" being the operative word
And to me being "realistic" doesn't mean that we assume that 9/11 has caused some sort of irrevocable paralyzing damage to our delicate national psyche and it doesn't mean that we have to see the Fascists as invincible and that we might as well just accept that and throw in the towel
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Indeed, but
DIEBOLD and cheating are realistic and operative words too.
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Tyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Yeah, you're right. Guess it's pretty hopeless.
Canada here we come! We'll just watch the Fascist coup from Vancouver, plus my partner and I can get married up there.
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. History
I had my hopes up SO high in 2000 and 2004 that when we lost, I could hardly get over it. Hell, I'm STILL not over it. I just can't set myself up for another fall. I will be pleasantly surprised if things go our way, but that has not been the norm since President Clinton's days.

Again, I speak of reality.
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Tyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. Alright, sorry if I was a little.... whatever there
I understand what you are saying and I felt the same way. And it didn't need to work out the way it did, but I think we just couldn't believe what was happening to us. As for me I just didn't want to believe that there were so many people who for whatever reason were prepared to actually sell out our country and everything it stood for. I still don't want to believe it, but there it is. Looking back it's obvious that they'd been working on their little project for quite a while. But we've learned some lessons from the experience and we are finally starting to trade in our boxing gloves for brass knuckles.

A Democracy needs constant attention and nurturing to work right and will always be susceptible to takeover from within if people aren't paying attention, but Fascist regimes are even more fragile and difficult to hold together. They are a lot easier to begin than they are to establish and maintain. Democracies can always come back, often stronger for the experience. That's a reality that the bad guys have to deal with. We must be doing something right because judging by the way they are pulling out the stops right now they are clearly not confident that they are going to be able to pull it off this time around.
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. That's OK - thanks. Just one question:
How exactly are they pulling out the stops right now? I don't see them any more underhanded than they've ever been.

I'd love to hear your answer and thanks for your well written reply above. Like you, I'm still at a loss that millions bought into their game and voted that way, two elections in a row. Saddens me.
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blue cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
49. I hate to say this....
I feel the same way. They will retain power any way possible, and just let enough dems be elected to give the illusion of a democracy and have someone to blame. They have too much money and too many dumbfucks that don't have money that will vote for them.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. However, we CANNOT stop hammering these assholes with letters and demands.
We got the disclaimer put on the piece of shit didn't we? Don't give up! Do MORE DO MORE. KEEP DOING MORE.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. you are totally and absolutely right....
but we definitely seem VERY much powerless if we are depending upon our pitiful little letters. hmmm...somebody's looking at "well this side has power over my political future and they are supplying me with money...and on the other hand i have this person that i totally understand...hey! wake up people...most of them are bowing down to the dollar. they are not gonna give one fucking shit about your fucking letter. they will....but then they won't.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
52. I'm Going To Say This ONE MORE TIME! And We Are Wasting
so much precious time! It's time for a REVOLUTION! We MUST take to the streets because OUR leaders CAN'T get ANY message out with this Corporate run media, most of which is OWNED by Repukes!

All you hear, over and over... Dems just roll over, don't have a message, will get beat because they don't fight back, should be able to win but can't figure out how to do it! Media KEEPS telling everyone this every single day!

So even when some Democrats ACTUALLY DO something, it gets covered like we are Unpatriotic Idiots! Anyone else have a better idea??

How many of you really think we stand a snow ball's chance in hell? Many many months ago I started saying that HOPE was a four letter word and in reality it is. Many many months ago I started saying it was going to be up to US, We The People to do something drastic because even if we vote, we have NO ASSURANCE that it's not rigged again! I personally don't have extra funds for a trip to D.C. but I'll find a way. We MUST take action, and I know many here think this is stupid, but what we are up against is truly sinister and SCARY!

Remember what country this is supposed to be... it's America! Sure, one many of us don't even recognize anymore, but do we wait until they lock us up before we take action???? I've HAD IT myself... I've been fed up for far too long and I'm ready to fight, but sitting here blogging is doing me no good! We are up against a very mean hateful machine and it will rumble over anything and everything in it's way!

Anybody have a better suggestion, please tell me. And please don't say get involved in local politics... I HAVE been for a very long time, and I'm still wondering what the hell is going on!!!!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. They have been very close to a complete takeover...what is stopping them
is US, the American citizenry who thinks and cares...

We can do it

We should be doing more about it

We have no choice...the issues are clear...

Either we continue this Negative Mode or we shift to the Positive Mode...

Its either or.....
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
54. Somehow we stared BushCo down regarding Social Security privatization.
We need to arrange it so that these sorts of decisions are ours, not the lawmakers and corporations.

Oops, that would be a government for, of, and by the people. I'm a radical. Hi Agent Mike!
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
56. It's ALL for $ale.
$$$$$$$$$$
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discopants Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
57. CBS got punked over Rathergate, they caved easily on the Reagan pic
I think CBS was running scared over another rightwing attack.

ABC had this thing totally financed, tons of free publicity by the controversy, and the whole rightwing website/radio/Foxnews empire plugging the thing. There was no reason to pull it except for legal action, which apparently, didn't rise to the occasion.
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ChipsAhoy Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. Exactly! n/m
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
60. It sounds to me like we having nothing to loose. That makes
anything we do from this point on a Win Win for us. Don't Give Up Hope For Our Beautiful Constitution.
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watercolors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
61. I think we are about to change
and take back some of our POWER, People are just fed up! A change in the wind is going to happen!
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
62. I agree
We've lost free and fair press and media coverage, combined with complete GOP control of the government and major undermining of Constitutional rights - we're up shit creek.
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aein Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
64. Just throw away your tv
It's better that way.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
66. Corporations only have power because we give it to them
Probably the biggest single failure of Democrats and liberals over the last 30 years is a refusal to acknowledge and challenge the ascent of corporate power over social values.

We did not challenge the Orwellian lies that started being shoved down the throats of the American people in the 1970's. Democratic politicians never challenged the mergers, or offered a counterpoint to right-wing-GOP-corporate lies such as "Layoffs are good for the American worker" despite the obvious wrongness of such claims.

As a result, the American peopel became docile, and accepted lies and outrages and attacks on theior own self-interest. So we developed a value system of acquiescence and trying to buy into the greed (which for most people is a no-win prpposition.)

But the fliup siude is that this is not inevitable. The only rteason corporate power has been allowed to grow is because the people allow and encourage it.

Now, as the chickens from these decades of deception come home to roost, more people are finally waking up. That has to be encouraged, and the Democratic Party needs to get on board.

By taking back the power of the corporations we can tip the scales. It won't happen overnight, but it can be done.

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