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do you shop at WHOLE FOODS?? maybe you shouldn't!!

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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:38 PM
Original message
do you shop at WHOLE FOODS?? maybe you shouldn't!!
i'm all for shopping at businesses that support progressive causes ... our local "hippie supermarket chain" in the Boston area was called "Bread and Circus" until they were recently bought out by Whole Foods ...

i always felt good shopping there because they seemed to have a "progressive aura", whatever that means, and because they carried lots of "hippie foods" and organic foods that aren't readily available in other area supermarkets ...

well, Whole Foods CEO John Mackey may have just stuck his whole organic foot in his mouth ... this might take a little more research but perhaps it's time to wave bye-bye to "just another corporate monster" ...


source: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0629-21.htm

John Mackey is instead a libertarian with right-wing tendencies. Mackey says that Milton Friedman is his hero. Hes a devotee of Ayn Rand. Hes opposed to national health insurance. Hes a union buster.

And he has recently endorsed a book published by the libertarian Cato Institute whose author concludes that no corporation should ever be prosecuted for crimes no matter the corporation, no matter the crime.
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - I go there everyday....
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Is this the one by Westland Ave?
I used to live on Park Drive so B & C was a bit of a hike for me.

If whole foods is known for union busting, get a hold of some Union Cards and hand them out to the employees. Tell them you will suppport them by boycotting the store should they be fired in their attempt to form a union.

I'll back any action in this regard.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. I didn't like him
back when Whole Foods was just one little store here in south Austin. I'd met him at some social occasions and I thought he was a jerk then.
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AJ9000 Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
67. Bear in mind libertarians are extremely critical of * and his
policies. Cato released a scathing report on *'s constitutional record for example.

And *'s foreign policy is the antithesis of a libertarians view.

It's a safe bet that he despises *.





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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #67
74. Maybe so
but there people that have the same political views as me and I don't like them either. Some people are just asses no matter which end of the political spectrum they're on.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. "no corporateion should ever be prosecuted for crimes -
no matter the corporation, no matter the crime."
:wtf:
What kind of bullshit is this? What possible justification could there be for this?
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. it's crazy ...
first, we indemnify the owners' liability by letting them hide behind the corporate veil; then we indemnify the corporation itself ...

what he's saying is that corporations and their major stockholders and directors should be above the law ... what kind of crap is that???
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. What they're forgetting is that there's a damn good reason
for the corporations to be held legally responsible for their crimes. Because if the LAW doesn't hold them responsible, they will eventually come under a completely different set of rules and all the money in the world won't protect them.

They have to realize that they may have declared class warfare, but the lower classes have yet to begin to fight.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
81. Talk about having it both ways...
Corporations claim the same rights as human people, yet this guy says they shouldn't be sued. In the meantime, real people are rapidly losing their rights, including the right to the last remedy against corporate misdeeds, the lawsuit!
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
91. 'tis Fevdalism, mye liege....
nt.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Another "letter to Santa" from big business to the Bush administration
Heck, Bush has given them everything they asked for... why not ask for the moon and the stars? They want to get away with anything, no accountability. Fuck this guy!







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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
64. corporations are already immune from criminal prosecution
they are only subject to regulation and to civil law.

the argument against making them immune from all law is that prosecution should focus on individuals.

the idea is that if a corporation is in violation of a law, it MUST be because certain individuals broke the law. the corporation did not contract with their employees to do anything criminal, so the corporation is immune.


it's a nice little theory if you're living in a fantasy land where individuals always are held accountable for their crimes.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
77. (See my reply to the original poster farther down the thread.) (NT)
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. GOD we need a Trader Joe's here.
Central Market will have to do in the meantime. They at least value domestic partnerships etc.

That's the last time I set foot in Whole Foods.
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LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. i was at trader joe's today
the one on boylston st. a dollar goes a LONG way at trader joes (on most things. certain products can be way more expensive than at a regular supermarket, but usually not)
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh god no!!
That was my store when the Vons workers were on strike. They did a huge business in my neighborhood because they were--we thought--a worker-friendly business that was supporting the strikers.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Another reason not to shop there....
Here in suburban Philadelphia there is a nice little shopping center with some nice stores and a (newly-refurbished( four-screen theater. Word just came out that the entire thing is being sold to a developer who will raze the site and build a 500-unit apartment/condo high-rise, 12-screen theater, and a 55-fucking-thousand sq.ft. Whole Foods. They are terminating leases and really screwing over the present tenants in order to get them out.

This complex will completely swamp the area as well as destroy community businesses that have been here for decades.

I always found WF a bit-too upturned-nose and way too expensive. Trader Joes is much better and much more affordable.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. You should see the WF store in White Plains, NY. . .
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 04:21 PM by DinahMoeHum
in what has to be the crappiest location ever.
In a shopping mall, along with Cheesecake Factory and other chain stores, across the street from Nordstrom's, Neiman-Marcus and several other shopping malls, alongside a highway access street.
Needless to say it's a most "pedestrian-unfriendly" location, plus you have to pay for parking if you buy less than $15 worth of stuff there (which isn't all that hard to do, anyway).

In the very rare instances I have shopped at WF, I've been to the Greenwich, CT location. It's along the route I take to go to work, it's located near a YMCA and various numerous apartment complexes where customers can walk across the street to shop, and the parking is free.

:rant:
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Hey, T Wolf, where is this? I live near Fort Washington.
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 05:02 PM by Quakerfriend
With respect to Whole Foods, I liked them much more in their first year of operation.

They claim to bring in whatever organic stuff is out there. But, this is pure BS. I've noticed that they have actually stopped carrying a lot of the organic stuff they once had. And, also have switched to their own brand 456- which is usually the dumbed down organic standards- ie, not certified by OCA.
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Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
63. That 'tear down mall/run good local business out' thing is
happening now in our town. When the 9 local shops in the little mall signed their leases in 2002...there was a phrase about losing their leases if the mall were to be demolished. They were stuck..no place else in town to move to...they had to sign. Sure enough, the mall quickly sold and they were all evicted. Imagine..working 20-25 years to build a business and you have nothing to sell for your retirement. Citizens in our town waged a war against it.....caused 2 years of delay but the developers still won. They've torn it down and are currently building a crappy, cookie cutter, cheap constructed SHAWS. I won't shop there...no will many more in our town. Those store owners had worked long hours and were our friends. Out of the petition signing/protests about the mall grew a citizen's action group....the East Hampton Ciitizen Advocates for Responsible Development(EHCARD)...and an offshoot of that was the development of a 3rd party that fielded candidates for our Town Council in the last execution. The Chatham Party took 5 of 7 seats in a huge sweep where 49% of the town's voters showed up.
NOW the Dems and Repugs in town have joined forces and fight the Chatham Party TC members all the time. They've gotten their constituents out to defeat our budget 3 times....write false-info in LTTE, put up huge signs around town with false info...
These gal and guys from the CP have worked extremely hard to open our government.....stop the irresponsible development all over town. I just hope they have the energy and committment to run for another term. The incredible hours they put in, voluntarily attending so many meetings etc has been really draining on their families. It's horrid when lies are spread about them by this crew that wants to get back into power.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. Oh, no! I shop there a lot...
There's always Trader Joe's. (Please, don't tell me TJ's is bad, too!)

I do miss the old Bread & Cicus stores.

TC

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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. I love Trader's Joes, wish my town had one ....
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. I go to Wild Oats...
I went to Whole Foods about half a dozen times last year. They seem to have a lot more than Wild Oats but this information assures I won't be going there again any time soon.

Now, I just hope Wild Oats continues to be what they appear to be...
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Wild Oats gets its milk from factory-farms.
See the link below for ratings of org.dairies on how they treat cows.
http://cornucopia.org/dairysurvey/index.html
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #34
79. Well, at least I tried...
:(
I don't think I have access to the labels in the upper part of the chart of the link you provided. I'm going to print out the chart at take it with me when I go grocery shopping--just in case.

Thanks for the information. :hi:
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
49. Wild Oats/Henry's not much better
Here in San Diego they have people from the Union Tribune offering $10 off if you sign up for the paper - this is an awful right-wing, anti-gay/anti-imagrant/anti-black paper. I've called and complained many times to no avail.
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. A few years ago Henry's worked really hard to keep out the unions, too.n/t
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tinfoil tiaras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. I doubt there are many progressive places to shop/eat in Mississippi
(but if you could tell me any that would be great-Jackson area preferably)
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. ask and...
rainbowCCoOp

that's a link for a CoOp in Jacksonw/local organics, including eggs, dairy poultry and beef.
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tinfoil tiaras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. Oh yeah...rainbow
Is it expensive?! Because my mom flips out when i tell her to get the organic milk at Kroger (thats like a dollar more than regular milk)...
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. On the positive side
My son worked there for a while. The pay is very good with profit sharing that is meaningful. Each department is its own 'boss'. They provide benefits. Working conditions are very good.

I can't speak to the other comments above.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Exactly!
Thank you.
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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. I've never shopped at a Whole Foods
And now I won't. Thanks!
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The Onyx Key Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
82. Ha!! I love your sig image!! Maybe you should add
a ribbon and "and our troops"!
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Sunflower Shopper Here - Whole Foods too $$$$$
over priced - but damn they have the best deli foods
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. Find a CoOp, join a CSA, break the chains and go local!
the average american's meal has traveled 1500 miles! that's a lot ofpetroleum, and if it isn't organic, add to that the petro-chemicals(poison) used to grow it and process it and kill tthe bugs and poison the soil, air and water, and you're looking at disaster. CoOps and CSAs and farmer's markets, and even locally owned grcery stores that carry locally products,support local family farmers and ranchers. here in oregon where buy local is gaining in popularity, the number of family farms and family ranchers is growing! people patronise restaraunts because they feature locally produced organic food.

seriously, get out of the chains and go local - it's fresher, more nutritous, tastes better and better for the planet.
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Doing that doesn't guarantee your food is local. Some products cannot
be produced economically locally. I've always had a problem with this "Buy Local" statement. Yes, if the produce can be produced economically locally, I'm all for it. But there are lots of products which cannot. Bananas, for example. Pineapple. The people in areas with WINTER are going to have very few choices if they're stuck eating what can be produced locally and stored for sale over the winter.

Additionally, many areas just don't have decent farmers markets. The farmers markets in my area tend to sell exactly the same produce being sold in the stores, except at higher prices. Additionally, the organic selection is meager, and the farmers markets are more like crafts and prepared food fairs with a few =fresh produce vendors. I'd have to drive 20+ miles to get to an organic producer's "produce stand" which doesn't have a lot of choice (I've tried it - once).

Whole Foods might not be great in some ways but it's also within 1.5 miles of my house. The only food coop is 15 miles away, and as I said, not all their produce is "local". I'm going to choose to go to the store I can bike to, rather than the store I can drive to. My other options are Ralphs (Krogers) & Vons (a Safeway subsidiary) & Trader Joes - which does get much of my business. But I do by Clover Organic Milk at Safeway, and a few other products which Trader Joes doesn't have, as well as most of my fresh produce (Trader Joes doesn't have the organic produce I want, and I hate having to buy produce pre-packaged).

I think CostCo is a great company but it doesn't have enough of the organic products I want and the amount of an item you have to buy are just too much for one person. Additionally, there's little at CostCo I'd buy outside of food. I encourage people with families who buy the sorts of things CostCo sells to get a CostCo membership, but for me, it's just not worth it.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. are you a member of the CoOp?
then vote and take action that they should stock more 'ocal and organic. and the whole point of local is that you eat what's in season locally. so uless you're in the tropics, no, you aren't gonna be eating pineapples and bananas. as for winter, that's why you buy extra when things are peaking in the summer and either can or freeze. or join a CSA and cut the middleman out completely.otherwise you're supporting an industry that's simply poisoning this planet and destroying family scale agriculture, here and all over the world.
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. Well, I agree to a point but not to your extreme. Running a freezer
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 10:46 PM by lindisfarne
uses energy too, not to mention the energy used to produce it and deliver to the store, then to your house. Even a chest freezer won't store enough vegetables and fruit to get a family through a winter. And frankly, I don't like frozen or canned fruit. Canning and freezing destroys some nutrients as well. I'm happy I can buy bananas year round. Certain things I don't buy year round -apples for example, because they taste horrible about 5-6 months after being picked. And other things aren't worth it if they're not local: organic strawberries, for example.

I'm not a member of the coop because it's 15 miles away and it's a waste of time and gas and too much pollution to drive that far for groceries, especially 2-3 times a week (I don't stock up for a week - too much gets thrown away that way). If they're selling bananas and pineapples -which they do - I know it's not local. Some produce is, some isn't; in the winter, less is fresh. Every co-op I know of brings in non-local produce, although they generally favor local providers when they have a choice. So I don't think "buy only local" is something even most extreme folks follow.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. no, of course i eat bananas and pineapples
but it's a rare thing. and ireally go out of my way to keep my dollar local. i agree it's much easier in some locales than others, but that's only because the movement got going here in oregon and some other places a long time back. the new england area isrife with buy local and parts of wisconsin and certain areas where folks gotit started. it helps small towns thrive, small businesses. i'm just a huge fan of local sustainable economies.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
86. I love the Harvest co-op in Cambridge and Jamaica Plain MA.
:woohoo:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. If they treat their workers well enough that unionizing is unnecessary
then all the better. I would expect that the person in charge of a successful supermarket chain that is as unlikely as Whole Foods is bound to be a bit of a hard nosed non idealist. It is amazing that they are still around, given the "race to the bottom" ethic of just about every other business in america.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Who cares about the CEO's politics?
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 04:11 PM by Placebo
If we start going down that road we're going to be very limited in our choices.

And Whole Foods has very strict regulations on how much its executives can make in relation to what the lowest paid employee is making a year. They also give health care to all of their employees and give them a stake in the company. Yes, he's a "libertarian" businessman, but who cares, people love working for Whole Foods and it's providing much better food than your local cookie-cutter grocery store. Not to mention the business it gives to smaller independent organic farmers, c'mon!
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
93. I 2nd all you say
No chain business is going to be perfect in our minds but WF is a great company. He treats his people well, they have above industry salaries and healthcare...........and returns a great profit to stock holders.
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. I do like Whole Foods...
...but they are freakin' expensive. We call it "Whole Paycheck." I'd say we do a Whole Foods splurge once every two or three months.

I've got to admit I love the quality of the stuff they have there, especially the Blue Sky Green Tea sodas.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. meh. Yer better off at a co-op that supports local suppliers, anyway.
I've had a grudge agin' WF ever since they grabbed so much of the hippy-dippy shopper market share in the Twin Cities that several small co-ops went out of business.

I rarely go there anymore except to buy a brand of shampoo that no one else in town carries.

Tuesday is my "foraging" day and I start out at the Farmer's Market in the morning, then go on to the co-op, then Trader Joe's, then finish up at the corporate grocery store or Target for odds n' ends.

Then I come home and put things away and cut stuff up and put it in the freezer or parboil it or divide it into one-use packets, etc.

Then I collapse into a limp heap and we go out to dinner.

philosophically,
Bright
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. There are only 2 Whole Foods in the Twin Cities - not in the best
locations either. How can they steal business? See also msg #32 for why co-ops are not an option for a lot of people.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
65. There used to be a very nice little co-op on Selby that went...
...foooop! within a year of Whole Foods opening up on Grand. That same WF cut seriously into Miss. Mkt's business, too, and forced them to forego an expansion. I was a volunteer as well as a member at MM, it was a real teeth-gnashing time.

Co-ops aren't an option for everyone partly because the 800-lb. gorillas in the agribusiness conglom have made it economically impossible for SMALL food stores to compete at all except in the convenience-food segment. Back before all the food retailers consolidated into a few big chains, there were smaller grocery stores in every St. Paul neighborhood, not to mention several local chains with medium-to-largish stores scattered throughout town. Back where I grew up we could walk to any of three food stores which each had a butcher counter with fresh meat, produce department, dairy and grocery selections.

By the time I left the Twin Cities nearly 10 years ago, in that same neighborhood you had to go nearly two miles to get to anything but a convenience store.

Co-ops could compete equally, even favorably, with small stores and maintain a good selection of local AND transported foods. When the big chains moved in, co-ops could still compete on the "healthy food" basis, but when WF inflated the "healthy food" concept to mega-chain size, it grabbed enough of that market share to push several small co-ops over the edge.

regretfully,
Bright
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. I used to live in the neighborhood and I only went to the Selby co-op
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 12:45 AM by lindisfarne
once or twice - they didn't have the selection of MS Market, so I went there. MS market's expansion over to Selby and Dale couldn't have helped them either. As I recall, the Twin Cities coops weren't doing really well overall in the late 1980s - which is before Whole Foods moved in. There was one on St. Clair just east of Snelling that I believe closed - it was planned to close in the late 1980s. Whole Foods in St. Paul moved into the old RC Dicks store - which wasn't a health food store but still was a food store the Selby Coop had to compete with. I really find it hard to believe that co-op customers are going to shift their business from the co-op to another store. While Whole Foods might have been the final straw for the Selby Co-op, I doubt if it was the whole story in the closing. Mississippi Market and the Wedge Co-ops have survived, for example.
There are more natural foods cooperatives per capita in Minnesota than in any other U.S. state.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Knowing what I know about whole paycheck, I'm not the least bit surprised.
Several of my friends work there and have told me that whole paycheck actively discourages unions and goes so far as to hand out disinformation regarding just that.

Also, did you know that several of the upper management are former china-mart execs? No you say? how could that be??

Because if you have lived in austin as I have for a long time and have watched whole paycheck grow from a tiny store on lamar to the megalofoodmart it is now, you would have to ask yourself, how does a tiny itty bitty store who sells "health" food, become the mega millionaire food store it is now? especially in the repuke ultra right wing climate we are in now??? If you track it's growth, it exploded soon after moron* got into power, that just doesn't happen out of the blue.

John Mackey has been known around these parts to swim the political circles here in Austin and now it appears, in a very big way, the national circuit.

They love to promote that hippy happy love food lifestyle but sadly, that type of image, disappeared about 10 years ago.


My friends tell me that they enjoy working there but then they go on to tell me all the various screw jobs the management does to them. And I say, start a union. Then they say that management told them there is no such thing as a grocery store union. Love that one.
I told them to google grocers union.

They are nothing more than corp pencil necks in tie dyes.

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Casper Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
26. My mother lives in Ann Arbor, MI
(I did for most of my life too) and she has been avoiding Whole Foods since they arrived because of their anti-union work. They also gobble up independent stores (or push them out of the market). If you have a local health food store or co-op in your area, support them.

I live in Atlanta now but far from Whole Foods or the co-op. So I got Krogering. I stopped shopping at Publix because they wouldn't let us do a voter registration drive in their store, but the Krogers a block away did.

It's a constant battle trying to support the good guys and starve the bad guys...
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. Mackey was on 60 minutes recently
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 04:46 PM by ismnotwasm
I got the impression he was a little off, but I was unaware of this. I did get the impression that he didn't care for unions, although they glossed over that on the show--It was one of those "look at the nice rich guy interviews"
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. IIRC, Whole Foods busted a union in Winsconsin
a couple years back. it was on the ufcw website, you might be able to catch the details in the archives.
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foreverdem Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #27
80. I saw that episode
He rubbed me the wrong way, I came away from that thinking he was an asshole. As soon as I found out he disliked unions, that kind of sealed it for me.
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michaelwb Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Instead
So why aren't you instead shopping at Harvest Food Coop?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
30. Whole Paycheck
Farmer's markets

canning

freezing

local grocer sales

you can buy good, cheap food

without going to the Starbucks of the grocery world and spending 175 cents on the dollar.

I'm not surprised it's run by a wingnut
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. Did you know that Whole Foods is the biggest corp. user of wind power
in the US?

BTW, that article you've linked to is one of the sloppiest pieces of "journalism" I've ever seen, left or right.


http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stor...


Whole Foods Market Inc. is going all green on electricity.

The company is buying enough wind power credits to cover energy use at all of its U.S. stores, bakeries, distribution centers, regional offices and its Austin headquarters.

The deal makes Whole Foods the biggest corporate user of wind power in the country.

Whole Foods will buy 458,000 megawatt-hours of the wind energy credits from Boulder, Colo.-based Renewable Choice Energy Inc. Neither company revealed the dollar value of the two-year contract.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. "sloppiest pieces of "journalism""
i agree ...

that's why i wrote "this might take a little more research" ... the issues the article raised are definite concerns but they need to be evaluated further ...

the one most disturbing aspect of the "journalism" was that it did not provide sufficient quotes from Mackey to substantiate the claims it made about his various positions ... for example, it provided no evidence that he is a "union buster" ...
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Vadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. OK! What do we do? Is Mackay a union buster or a green
person, using wind power to power his stores? What is it to be?

I will not support a union buster, but I will support a wind power advocate!

We need more info on this CEO and his corporation! Who will be the supplier of the info to us, so that we can make a rational decision?

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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Whole Foods is non-union and tries to keep unions out by keeping
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 08:05 PM by lindisfarne
workers' pay relatively high. What co-ops do you know that have union representation? I don't know of any.

If there was a union grocery store with as good an organic selection as Whole Foods within biking distance of me, I'd go there. There isn't. I do a lot of my shopping at Trader Joes (also non-union) but get my produce and milk (Clover Dairy organic), as well as the rare organic meat that I buy, at Whole Foods.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #38
72. true...
I live near both a WF and a Stop and Shop. S&S is Union, but starting pay is $7 (min in MA is 6.75) an hour with a 15 cent raise every 6 months, whereas the WF starts at $9 an hour and there's a 25 cent raise for every year. Ihave friends that work at both and the biggest difference is that at WF they can fire you for anything... they don't even have to tell you why. Whereas at S&S they have to write you up 3x, have to speak to the Union rep... plus, if you've got a problem with management you can take it up with a grievance coordinator... basically, there is power in representation. Also, on two occasions, i have asked the S&S folk if they can order a specific product (QUORN- love that stuff) and they have gotten it within the week. I asked WF and they pretty much laughed at me for asking (after they asked if i was a local producer).

As for co-ops, most of the ones in my area aren't Union, but at least they are worker owned. It is generally the collective will of the members that holds a Co-op together and makes it appealing to newcomers... not much to see when it comes to Co-ops, but plenty to envision.

Also, though the other poster may have been serious about living Bioregionally and in season... i think understanding and thinking about these things is an important first step. Sorry to hear you don't have such a great farmer's market. There's truly NOTHING like freshly picked fruits and veggies... have you looked for a CSA near you? I draw the line at fresh strawberries and tropical fruits in Winter. But i can't live without my coffee and chocolate...

Good luck!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
37. I go to Trader Joes or "Real Foods" or local, corner stores.
I usually dont like Whole Foods- too expensive & always too crowded.

I DO like the cute, tatooed "alternative" girl-cashiers though! ;)

But Now I have another reason to avoid it- thanks
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. #4
anything with the WT2 pedigree is a K&R ;) :hi: :thumbsup:


A friend who was injured on the job at Whole Foods in Berkeley had a hellish experience with the management there..............
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. Screw 'Whole Foods'! They're a rip off, all
dressed up to dupe you!
I shop at Marketbasket and get whole foods at half the price, and I shop
at local farmers to get fresh vegtables and fruit and eggs.
Whole Foods is set up to attract yuppies, imho. ;) Way over priced!

Save your money. :thumbsup:
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
45. When whole foods opened in my town it was called 'Fresh Fields' at
first, and there were picketers outside protesting their very chintzy salaries from the day they opened their door. The picketers eventually went away and about a year or two later they changed their name to Whole Foods, not sure if it was the same owners as the previous incarnation.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
46. wait, I woudl verify that first. there was a 30min special about this guy
PBS this year, saying exactly the opposite. that he has amazing health care plans for his people, wage split between all levels does not exceed 12 times, just like costco, etc. that he supports small organic farmers instead of larger companies....
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #46
70. Amazing healthcare still does not
preclude the employees being able to unionize if they have disputes. It sounds like more than one person here is familiar with MAckey's record, and it ain't pretty, unfortunately.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
47. Anti-Union? Then I'm done there.
I know that they have one of the best reputations in the country, but there is no reason to union bust. If you're really that great a corporation then you'll have nothing to fear when your workers organize themselves.

I shopped there. Now I know better. Thanks!
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. How about a thread for posts re- food coops & other alternatives?
I'm not aware of anything better than Whole Foods in my area, but I wouldn't be surprised it there were one; but I don't find anything in a quick 'net search.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #48
68. Here's a neat link I dug up:
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #68
83. not ONE in Missouri...
so...there are none at all in Missouri?

Or is the site just not complete?

Guess I'll stick with Shop 'N Save...not great, and not organic, but reasonably cheap...which, right now, counts for a lot.

(I also shop Trader Joe's on occasion, and also Wild Oats...for my low-protein frozen dinners, mostly)
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
85. Here's a great link to find farmers' mkts, co-ops, etc near you
Also community-supported agriculture, online products, restaurants, etc.

http://www.localharvest.org

Just found this a couple weeks ago, what a super resource!

:headbang:
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
90. Thanks, everyone! nt
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
50. Tell me where I should grocery shop then?
Dominicks? Jewel? It's not like I have many choices, and it takes me 40 minutes just to get to Whole Foods. I shop there because it's the only place that offers a wide selection of organic produce, meat and dairy. I can't get the selection, or quality anywhere else. I'm all for shopping blue! I've boycotted Wal-mart, Sams, JC Penny, Overstock, and so many other retailers, but - I'm not going to put my family's health at risk by purchaing hormone injected beef and dairy products, or produce that's sprayed with enough chemicals to alter a mouse's DNA.

Whole foods and county markets is all I have.
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bedazzled Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. they just opened one in west palm
there's no place in my life for $6.99 lb. potato salad, alas.

i am in trader joe's withdrawal. gosh i miss that store. there are so many places that could use one -- they
must be a goldmine if you get a franchise
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
52. No corporation should ever be prosecuted....I AGREE!!!
But the CEO, upper management, and Board of Directors should be prosecuted and held criminally and monitarily responsible for transgressions....complete restitution to all injured parties.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
53. I detest Whole Foods.
Their staple foods are overpriced, and it is hard to exit there under $50 A BAG. Trader Joes, the local fruit and veggie mkt, and the local butcher...why go to Whole foods? It reeks of an upscale (read: overpriced) Safeway. The employees seem unhappy as well.


Oh, and there's a new one opening up here in Los Altos!!!

:puke:
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #53
69. Unfortunately,
Trader Joe's is not everywhere we are.

For some folks, it's the only option if they're eating mostly organic.

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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thanks for the update. I have bought stuff in Whole Foods.
Now I won't.

I kind of think the health food store stuff is a scam, but they had a few things I liked.

I used to shop in California at Mrs. Gooch's which Whole Foods acquired.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
55. Righ-Wing Libertarians are the scum of the earth.
They are a bunch of greedy assholes who couldn't give a shit about their duties to society. A large part of the US's problems stem from the fact that it's one of the most libertarian-infested countries on earth.
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Gotta agree
They feel nothing about others. It's an "I got mine" world all the time to them.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
59. Ever see the documentary on Mackey?
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 10:44 PM by rudy23
I liked Whole Foods until then, though I've always been a little leary of it. I can't remember what channel it was on. He addressed the store which tried to unionize, and said it was because of a weak team leader who didn't understand the Whole Foods culture. Having worked at Barnes and Noble, that kind of lingo made me nauseous. They give good benefits, and a few nice perks, but when push comes to shove, they will crush their employees like a bug. Beware of pseudo-liberal megacorporations.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
61. I wish I could help, I've never heard of it.
We do have a lot of Trader Joes here though, they're great. :shrug:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
71. Interesting. The Atlanta District Manager came under fire for...
...forbidding Neal Boortz propoganda in the store breakrooms.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
73. Anyone know about Earthfare?
It looks and feels a lot like Whole Foods and I've shopped both, but really can't afford to do so at either place. There's Weaver Street Market nearby in Carrboro, NC which I believe is privately owned, but still on the pricey side. Trader Joe's must be a west coast store; I've never heard of it except on DU. We have a co-op in Durham, but some relatives have shopped there and reported the quality being off. I want to shop locally and consume organic, but it's damn hard and expensive to do. I need to head to the Farmer's Market this weekend and take up canning as I've always planned.
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Mel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #73
88. A Trader Joes
is going to be opening up in Cary NC!
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Great news; thanks! nt
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
75. Whole Foods has good stuff, but it is too expensive
I go there every once in a while. Their produce is expensive, but on Saturday mornings, they have lots of free samples of goodies set out for shoppers to munch on.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
76. There's actually some sense there...
> And he has recently endorsed a book published by the libertarian
> Cato Institute whose author concludes that no corporation should
> ever be prosecuted for crimes no matter the corporation, no
> matter the crime.

Firstly: I'm only responding to this one sentence; I have
not read the book in question, and don't know what other
claims it may make or not make.

But...

There may actually be a lot of sense in the thought that's quoted
above, especially when you consider that corporations are rather
difficult to punish for criminal activity. Sure, you can fine them,
but even a billion dollars is still petty cash to a lot of the
biggest corporations. And nobody ever throws corporations in jail
or gives them the death penalty.

So maybe we *SHOULDN'T* bother prosecuting corporations at all but
should, instead, *ALWAYS* prosecute the executives and directors
of corporations that break the law. After all, if any entity
ever could validly use the "I was only following orders" excuse,
it's an inanimate corporation. So prosecute the folks who gave
the orders to act illegally. And those executives and directors
are a lot more likely to be punishable than is their corporation.

As I say, I have no idea if this is the thesis advanced by this
book. But if, per chance, it is, then I'm in full agreement.

Tesha
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noops Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
78. Yeah but...
All the moms that shop at Whole Foods are a lot hotter.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
84. Nope. I live in one of the few states that doesn't have a Whole Foods.
Good to know about this, though.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
87. This is surprising?
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 01:50 PM by greyhound1966
After a brief conversation with an employee at the one in Sherman Oaks it was made apparent to me what kind of "alternative market" this is. Very high prices, draconian vendor policies, and immediate termination of anyone with the temerity to think of joining a union.

In SoCal it has always targeted the "I've got mine, fuck you" demographic.

Go to Trader Joe's instead, fewer organics but much better prices and service and they take care of their people.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
92. If I boycotted stores because of politics,
I would have nowhere at all to shop. I live in a red state and in a very red county and everything is owned by Republicans.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
94. I never shop there because I knew that Mackey masturbates to Rand's...
turgid insanity
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
95. Why Bother with Whole Paycheck when There's TRADER JOE'S!!!
There's a Whole Paycheck coming to a neighborhood near me, and I don't give a shit because there's two Trader Joe's near by. I can get Niman Ranch meat, organic anything, great wines, even convenience foods that aren't toxic at very reasonable prices at TJs. The service is great there, too - my store in Sunnyvale always has the nicest people working there.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
96. The ideal is to grow everything yourself--100% organic of course!
The other extreme is buying only 100% processed food--at WalMart. Most of us compromise....

Living in Texas, I've heard about problems at Whole Foods for some time. There's also the hipper-than-thou atmosphere--look, the guy making sandwiches has grommets in his ears! Count the SUV's in the parking lot! No thanks.

Good old Kroger's is selling more organic & "natural" foods. And the chain is unionized--although unions aren't that strong in this "right to work" state.

I also shop at Fiesta--a local chain. And HEB's Central Market, when I feel rich. Spec's Liquor Warehouse (!) has a good specialty food selection; the BEST prices on imported pasta. (& the best prices & selection of wine, beer, etc.)

No food co-ops that I know of in Houston. I belonged to a produce co-op many years ago. As a single person, I couldn't always utilize 3 pounds of zucchini--because that was "in season." I do check out our local farmers' markets. But--how much artesanal lettuce can I use in a week?

Costco is a bit far out in suburbia. Trader Joe's has made it as far as New Mexico! I've shopped there in California & was impressed.

I do grow my own herbs, at least.



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