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Did Ward Churchill get a raw deal?

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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:56 PM
Original message
Did Ward Churchill get a raw deal?
Ann Coulters latest spiel has brought me back to this. Didn't she, along with the rest of her right wing blow hards attack this guy?

Anne's rant serves nothing more than to prove that these people are nothing more unprincipled morons. Especially when you take what Churchill was really trying to convey and pin it up against the latest venom getting spewed by the right.




_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I am the man, it is said on the talk shock radio in the Denver area, who has called for the deaths of millions of Americans. Someone show me where I said that. I am the man who has justified what I consider to be natural and inevitable. You do not justify the natural or the inevitable, you may comment on it. You do not have to advocate it, you don't have to justify it, you simply point to it.

And, no, I did not call a bunch of food service workers, janitors, children, firefighters and random passers-by 'little Eichmanns.' It says clearly in that passage, which perhaps I should've amplified further in terms of the connotation of 'Eichmann,' because I understood people would understand as I did what Eichmann symbolized, but apparently not. It says clearly in that passage, the reference is to a technical corps of empire, the technicians of empire. Someone want to give me a coherent definition of technician by which someone is eighteen months old, or someone who serves food for a living or someone who pushes a broom or someone who is trying to save people in the building or someone who is just walking by, becomes a technician of any sort? Obviously I was not talking about these people. I was talking about some very specific technical technocrats who make this particular system hum, and I'm going to come back to that in a second. But the people at issue and these are the only people who have been raised the construction is fairly clear; I've been told it was a bad rhetorical device, well I don't think so. You got a better rhetorical device, go use it. Make people think about this your way. This was mine. The people at issue, on that red herring, would be referred to by Don Rumsfield or Norman Black I mean, Schwartzkopff, any other people who stand at the podiums, the official forum to make pronouncements on behalf of the federal government of the United States, those people, or those firefighters, those service workers, those children would be referred to as something called 'collateral damage.' Not even as human beings. And that was implicit to the formulation.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7290

Yet the righties posture to feign dissagreement (many of the talking heads not so) with Anns rhetoric and say we need to pare out what she was trying to say. When it's taken down to it's bare bones it's really a whole lot of nothing.

Yet, when someone does offer a commentary on that day, based on other studies of Eichmann (Milgram), we are supposed to take their word for it and ignore what was really conveyed. Churchill was talking about obedience and it's destructive effects on history, foreign policiy and civillian life. He was trying to get at why the events of that day occurred.

This is a perfect opportunity to shove their rhetoric back in their faces.
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Probably not....n/t
....
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Did you ever take a psychology class?
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 05:09 PM by inthebrain
Do you remember this experiment?
______________________________________________________________________________________
Milgram summed up in the article "The Perils of Obedience" (Milgram, 1974), writing:

"The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous import, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation."
____http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment_______________________________________________________________________________

This experiment was largely based on the conundrum presented by Eichmann's excuse "I was just following orders."

That's what Churchill was refering to.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, please, I am so tired of hearing about him.
The GOP has made him a poster child. I think the Dems in Colorado just roll their eyes about him. I don't even know if he supports the Democratic Party.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Whether he does or doesn't
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 07:41 PM by inthebrain
What does it matter?

Fact is that you get away with alot more speaking as a conservative in this country than you do as a liberal.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. speaking truth to power generally gets one a raw deal.
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Churchill was relieved from his duties -
- because he "was found to have plagiarized, falsified and fabricated in his research" according to the DenverPost.com. His Eichmann statement may be what he is best known for but is not why he was fired. Were that the case they would have dismissed him long ago.

No raw deal that I can see.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thats brings up an odd simialarity
Not that I think there is balance between Coulter and Churchill. One was trying to make a point assuming we all knew the subject matter (plus hammered for it because the right assumes everyone is dumb) the other spews hatefull rhetoric.

Coulter plagerized her book. It hasnt been taken off the shelves yet. Nor has her publisher axed her.

Simple difference is that liberals are on their own while rightist hate mongers enjoy a healthy slush fund.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Churchill is expected as a condition of his employment to
uphold certain professional ethics and a standard of conduct. It's contractual. There's little money in publishing academic tomes and articles, and little to be gained by suing over such plagiarism.

If Coulter plagiarized her books, she's beholden to the publisher's code of ethics and to public opinion (viz. market forces). Nobody can really sit in judgment of her contractual obligations apart from herself (viz. her lawyer) and the publisher. But she can be suited to protect the original author's (authors') copyright.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Axed her what?
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