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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:22 AM
Original message
How dumb do they think we are?
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 04:14 PM by EarlG
I recognize that Tony Snow comes from a background of misdirection and obfuscation, which makes him perfectly suited for his job as White House spokesliar. But I'm not sure there's a grain of salt big enough out there for this assertion:
President Bush understands there is growing U.S. concern over his handling of the Iraq war but will not rely on polls to determine when to withdraw troops, his spokesman said Sunday.
I suppose this shouldn't surprise any of us. The president and his handlers have long said that they pay no attention to polls, period. While that, of course, is a flat-out lie, it's a point I'll get to in a moment. But look closer at what Snow said. He's basically admitting what we've known for quite some time: This administration doesn't care about the people it governs. And, in this case, the people want us out of Iraq. They've tired of the lies. They've tired of the excuses. They've tired of the loss of life.

That said, the president and his colleagues are, through Snow's argument, giving a massive middle finger to the rest of us. A big "screw you" courtesy the commander-in-chief. Funny how the "support our troops" brigade seems more to support their deaths than anything else. How else could you explain their desire to, contrary to overwhelming evidence otherwise, keep them in a dangerous situation with not only no end in sight, but also no stated exit strategy? Nor, I might add, no sign of getting any better.

Back to the earlier point, that President Bush doesn't rely on polls. Tell me, how, then, are we to believe he recognizes the "growing U.S. concern over his handling of the Iraq war"? Because he's certainly not seeing any "growing concern" at his staged "visits" with "average Americans". Perhaps, as may be the case, Bush learned about the "growing concern" from press reports, which wouldn't be a new development.

How much longer will the administration expect us to believe they pay no attention to the polls? Because the White House has been behind massive public relations pushes timed coincidentally to combat bad poll numbers. Remember Social Security? Remember warrantless wiretapping? Remember after the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? Right, those media campaigns had nothing to do with the president's terrible poll numbers. Not at all.

Do you honestly believe that, as the 2006 and 2008 elections approach, that this West Wing won't be concerned with the polling with regard to Iraq? The polling is on our side. And they know it. Short of unearthing Osama bin Laden or cutting every American a check for $10,000, the only ace in the hole for this bunch remains massive troop withdrawals. So while they speak disdainfully about polling and withdrawal, going so far as to malign those who truly care about the troops, you can count on them playing their last card should Republican electoral disaster become an absolute certainty.

Make no mistake, this White House does as much scoreboard watching as a second-place baseball team does in late September. Hint: A lot. There's nothing this administration does that doesn't have a public relations component. To think otherwise, to believe Snow, is to show complete insanity. Or a reckless disregard for the truth. Two things personified by this administration, the most poll-watching pack of poll haters in existence.
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cdsilv Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. very n/t
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. You have a bright future ahead Bob
here at du.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. extremely dumb (and they're mostly right)
and totally ineffectual (and they are completely right)
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. yeah, I don't understand the poll-bashing of the RW
it seems silly to ignore at least listening to the public opinion - in other words their alleged bosses.

So are they saying that they refuse to listen to polls because they feel that the average American hoi polloi are unimportant, that they'd rather have the opinions of Big Business than the people. Huh. When you put it that way, it's almost like they don't believe in Democracy.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Isn't it interesting?
This administration flip flops on the importance of polls. Whenever the subject of polls comes up and "they" downplay" them, I think of the exit polls for the 2004 election. Those polls were viewed as unreliable and now the tiny jump in the polls regarding *'s approval ratings are a positive--at least as of last week when they were also bragging about one of their own not being indicted....whoopee! Lots to be proud of last week.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. public relations COMPONENT???
PR is their only function. What other purpose did the "surprise" visit to the Green Zone serve? Let's get this on the table: George Bush never does any policy work. He doesn't understand health care, the economy, foreign policy, the budget, the environment, jobs, inflation, deficits, or anything else that concerns running this country. All he can do is read sound bites. He is the front man in the never-ending PR stunt that is his administration.
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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Good point
There's no there there. Just PR.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I didn't mean to denigrate your OP,
which was right on the money. I wish there was a way our people could articulate the two salient points about the Rove admin, which are that they have only two foci:

1. Making money for their base (the super-rich), and
2. Getting elected.

they don't give a shit about working people, old people, children (except fetuses), black people, or any group that can't help them make money.

this is where a decent media presence would be invaluable.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. He WOULD rely on polls but for those permanent bases Halliburton's
building in Iraq. He's STUCK defending them. No way out.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. I read this in the paper this morning and jumped to the conclusion
that Bush must think he's smarter and can make better decisions than 65% or so of the population. NOT LIKELY.
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. MAJOR flaw in your argument...
"President Bush understands there is growing U.S. concern over his handling of the Iraq war but will not rely on polls to determine when to withdraw troops, his spokesman said Sunday."

This is not the same as saying that they "don't pay attention to polls," or that they don't know from polls that "concern is growing" (a grotesque understatement, of course, but it's a Bush Press Secretary, so that, I suppose, is to be expected) among the population. It is saying that polls won't determine exit strategy, and only that. While your points themselves are totally spot-on, they don't follow from Snow's statement.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Whatever
:eyes:
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. somehow, republicans think it is machismo to ignore polls, or read.

newspapers.
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Potemkin built his villages for Catherine to view.
Snow, Rove and the crew have built one for the cameras. Unfortunately, most of us are living in the real village, not the Bushco Village.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Uh: dumb as a stump?
Dumb as a bag of rocks?

Dumb as a post?

Dumb as a bag of hammers?

Don't you think that they have a huge laughing session over martinis or whatever it is they guzzle - bragging about who told the bigger lie and got away with it?

9-11, Iraq, Deficits beyond comprehension, Katrina, Plame, Cheney's Face off, Chiavo, damn the list just goes on and on and still the people, or at least a sizable number of them, go for more.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. The whole "Bush doesn't look at Polls" meme was debunked
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 03:30 PM by RobertSeattle
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I just read it...was a good article. Long but very informative and
definitely shows that Bush is a liar-in-chief.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. One day, someone will tell us the truth about this administration
There are SO many secrets that somebody, someday, surely will spill the beans!
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bs1 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. The White House is a second place team, but the Dems are little league.
...the people want us out of Iraq. They've tired of the lies. They've tired of the excuses. They've tired of the loss of life." Tired, yes, but apparently not tired enough to vote the Righties out of power yet.


http://www.pollyticks.com
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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Please note an important change
I realized, as one commenter said, that I was missing an important part of what Tony Snow said. I've changed the story accordingly to be a more cohesive representation on my thoughts on this matter.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Editing is the soul of good writing.
:kick: and recommended and no need to justify your actions. The Admins give a short edit window, you may as well use it. :hi:
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. I laugh/cringe every time I hear someone say Bush doesn't pay
attention to poll numbers. He takes more and spends more money on polling than any other president in history. I wish someone would call him on that and make him disclose how much money they spend on polling. Prove to the world what a liar he is.
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ariellyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. They've spent more on PR than any administration. Why is that?
Rhetorical question, I know, but why else would they pay for PR other than to influence the polls using our tax dollars?
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. "Short of unearthing Osama bin Laden..." Be prepared for this
to occur late October.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. Turd-blossom studied polls up to the day they invaded -- * can't read
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Reckon Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Sen. Joseph Biden

"If I had known the president was going to be this incompetent in his administration, I would not have given him the authority” to go to war, said Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13405963/



The NeoCon-artists "lack the competence to win" a war.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
27. Last week was all about the polls.
Do you think Bush would have bothered to make the trip to Iraq last week if it had not been for the Marine atrocities that dominated the news in the weeks prior to the killing of Zarqawi?

And lets not forget the great Iraq debate in the house. I wish they'd do that every week.

The GOP is great at manipulating and controlling the press. Too bad they can't change the facts on the ground in Iraq.

We are slowly being ground down. Many of the troops are on their third tour of duty there. How many more times will they order them to go back? How will they deal with troops that have served faithfully and finally decide that enough is enough? What are they going to do then, declare combat veterans cowards and traitors?

They can't keep this up for two more years. Something's gotta give soon. I'm glad we've got the congressional record to read back to them. It's going to come in handy some day.
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