Here's another "FairTax" killer argument...

[FormerDittoHead]

The FairTax Conspiracy has been WELL discussed here, and anyone who has invested 10-15 minutes to do some research off of the FairTax website has realized it's a bunch of bull as well...

I've read many good reasons why such a SCHEME is, of course, a trojan horse to increase taxes on the middle class and practically eliminate taxes on the wealthy, but we all know that.

I just thought of the LITTLE FACT, however, that I've never seen addressed in these discussions...

One appeal of the "FairTax" SCHEME is to simplify taxes for the poor, muddled masses that just can figure out those 1040-EZ forms that resemble post cards (great going, educational system! ...don't teach TAXES, teach GEOMETRY - we use *THAT* every day!)

The greedy FairTax zombies say it will abolish the IRS! We won't have to keep track of our income anymore or bother with deductions! Whoopie! No more paperwork! Whee! Easy = Fair! It ALWAYS does!

Well, maybe not. Wouldn't you know it, but the 'home town' of the FairTax SCHEME is in Texas...

Putting aside your stereotypes of Texas, you may not realize that Texas DOESN'T HAVE A STATE INCOME TAX.

Something which is not mentioned at the FairTax website is that if you happen to be in one of those other states that DOES have a state income tax (like, every other one?) you'll STILL have to get a W-2, keep track of your income and deductions... For business it's the same story - taxes on income (profits).... Quarterly payments, etc...

And let's not forget many cities and municipalities have income taxes...

So the whole argument of the FairTax simplifying your record keeping / tax preparation is BULL...

[wakeme2008]

1. IMHO the real end they are shooting for is NO income tax Fed/State/City

it would all be in your "sales" tax.

Right,,, You buy a car you pay 55% "sales tax" Bill Gates buys a 30 million dollar boat, a off-shore company buys it with NO sales tax. Off-shore companies will buy things like houses, cars and other high $$$ playtoys. In the end, the rich only pay sales tax on very minor things for them like food and clothes.

[Finder]

2. Wrong. n/t

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

3. I'm more surprised that...

...we seem to have some folks here who are more than willing to step up and support the "National Sales Tax / Fair Tax."

I don't know if they're RICH, TROLLS, fucking STUPID, or all of the above.

EVERY time...without FAIL...that I post an "N.S.T. / F.T." thread, SOMEONE posts a reply that basically says "I support it, I think it's a good idea."

YES...paying 50-60% tax PLUS your local Sales Tax is a GREAT idea. Especially when you'll pay it on your RENT, your MEDICAL visits, your FOOD...and those much-touted "prebate" checks for offsetting the "essential" living expenses? ONLY if you make UNDER $18,000 per year.

But what if you have money in the bank that you already paid income tax on when you earned it? Simple answer. The government will DOUBLE DIP. Let's say you paid 33% income tax on it when you earn it. Under the "National Sales Tax / Fair Tax," you'd pay 50-60% PLUS your local state tax on EVERY DOLLAR YOU SPEND. So...ultimately...the government could walk away with up to 101% of every dollar you spend...as impossible as that might sound.

And I GUARANTEE YOU...as long as this debate goes on...you WILL see posts on DU regarding this proposal from people who think it's a great idea. I can understand that kind of thinking in FreepTown...here, I just don't fucking GET IT.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Finder]

14. Everyone would get a rebate, your figures are incorrect...

The 50-60% is incorrect as well. Here is the faq.

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/faq.html

[MADem]

4. VAT in the UK is a killer

If you look at the prices of goods in the UK, they look ok, until you realize that the price is in POUNDS, not dollars. They can't believe how cheap things are over here....

[Inland]

7. Politicians LOVE a VAT

As they love all sales taxes, but especially a VAT, because NOBODY KNOWS HOW MUCH TAX THEY ARE PAYING.

Yes, you can look at prices and know that taxes have something to do with it. But what is your total sales taxes paid? With a retail sales tax, it's really tough to know. With a VAT, it's impossible.

There's no April 15 moment with a sales tax, no comparision with anyone else, no total bill. It's a secret. Politicians LOVE it.

[LiberalPartisan]

5. 75% of filers already use Form EZ anyways

It's as simple as it gets.

[Inland]

6. Well, what states would do is a puzzler.

Many states actually rely on the fed government for enforcement. Illinois, for example. It would have to decide whether to fund an independent income tax or not.

But the states will have to think about whether it wants to add it's eight percent (as in parts of illinois) to a 17 to thirty five percent federal sales tax rate.

Maybe they'll just increase property taxes. Always fun.

[Finder]

9. Actually, the States would be the enforcers using the current...

state tax system. The proposed fed tax is 23%. Even if states kept their rates as they are now,(which they won't)the rate would not go over 30%.

[Sadie5]

10. Some seem to think

that the flat tax will eliminate the fica and etc. This is not true. They might try to make you think this, but they are not going to let go of one dollar they can pilfer from the citizens.

[Inland]

11. No, they won't.

Most states don't tax services, which the fed tax would.

And even if they did, what state is going to bust its ass to collect money from its citizens to go to DC?

There's this reality problem with the "fair tax", where states refuse to let their citizens get away with anything and extend their sales taxes to a politically suicidal tax on services. Well, I don't know why anyone is going through the trouble to make enforcment a matter of cotton candy and gumdrops in order to give the rich a huge tax break. Why bother.


By the way, the state sales tax in central Chicago: eight per cent. That totals 31%. But that's another bit of reality that has to be ignored, I guess.

[Finder]

12. States get to keep a percentage...

for one thing.(as do businesses who collect the tax) Also, some states do in fact collect tax on services.

[Inland]

13. Ah. So it'll be more than 23%. When were you going to tell us?

Just as long as we know.

[agincourt]

15. I wish there was a law,

Taxes can't be messed with if the GOP controls all three branches of government.