It's time to divide Texas into 4 states.

[APPLE314]

Texas has the power to divide itself into 4 states. I guess they would be called North,East,West and South Texas. Automatically they would get 6 new senators. This could play hell with politics as we know it.

[William769]

1. Why not just give it back to Mexico?

[Coastie for Truth]

4. Give it to Mexico? I'd pay Mexico to take it

*Bush Organized Crime family
*Albert Gonzales
*John Cornyn
*Kaye Bailey Hutchinson
*Lee Raymond, the $400M retired Exxon CEO
*Tom DeLay
*Harriet Miers
*Their oil is all pumped out

[Xenotime]

28. I agree with you.

There is a strong movement for Mexicans to take it back.

[Paladin]

30. "All Their Oil Is Pumped Out"

What would you think of a small wager---say, $100,000.00---on the validity of that statement?

Be grateful I don't believe in sucker bets. I've been in the energy business in Texas for 30 years, and the notion that the state's petroleum reserves are "pumped out" is, to put it charitably, fucking ridiculous. If you're going to insult my state, do your homework. Start with the Texas Railroad Commission site---it's poorly organized, but information on monthly production rates and active rig counts isn't that hard to find. You're welcome.....

[Coastie for Truth]

31. I worked on the commercialization of the NiMH batteries

(Prius, GM EV2, Honda Insite), worked in what later became KBR's Nuclear Power Division, and what later became Bechtel's Nuclear Power Division -- and the cheap stuff is pretty close to gone. I would not bet the continued viability of, say, General Motors, on an unending supply of cheap domestic crude.

I've been in nuke, solar, and batteries/fuel cells for 30 years (used to work in Nueces County).

[NoPasaran]

11. I am so sick of this "give it back to Mexico" crap

Before Texas joined the Union, we were an independent republic. We declared our independence from Mexico in 1836, paid for it at the Alamo and Goliad, and won it at San Jacinto. If you want to give something back to Mexico, let it be California.

[leftofthedial]

17. okay, podhuh. you're right.

Give it back to the Comanches.

[Igel]

19. Why?

They arrived about the same time the Spanish did.

One invading colonizer competing with another.

[leftofthedial]

20. okay, we'll let the Comanches and Spain fight over it

"Stop changing the map!"

[Igel]

23. Yeah, but the heirs of the Spanish still

want it, and there's new competition.

Actually, the Mexicans were apparently concerned about the "Vandals and Goths" invading, as one minister put it in the 1820s--a not-so-veiled ethnic jab at the "Angles". Fairly quickly the "Angles" outnumbered the Mexicans that, by hook or by crook, the government had inveigled into settling up here.

[Jack from Charlotte]

33. Sorry. Texas goes back. We all ready did the deal.... Mex gets Texas....

we get a free week in Cancun.

[HereSince1628]

2. Sell it a discount maybe, but don't give it away!

There must be some value there in the recyclables.

[jody]

3. Did Texas lose that right after the War of Northern Aggression? n/t

[William769]

6. No but they should have after the Southern slaughter

Of Africans as so many other States should have also.

[jody]

9. Do you have a link that shows Texas didn't lose the right to divide?

I can't find a link showing Texas retained the right to divide after it seceded on 1 Feb 1861 and rejoined the Union after 1865.

[RoyGBiv]

26. Legally, Texas never seceded ...

Texas v. White (1869) actually addresses this to some extent because it took on the issue of whether Texas was a state in 1864 and thus entitled to bring suit in a US court over bonds it had received in compenstation for dividing itself in 1850 that had been sold during the Civil War to individual investors. The majority ruled that Texas had always remained a state.

As noted, technically, Texas has already been divided. The original Republic of Texas, admitted with the clause allowing it to be separated into separate states, is not the same as the state of Texas today. Sections of the Republic are not included within the borders of Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, and Oklahoma.

[jody]

35. Thanks. nt

[greekspeak]

5. You really want 6 republican senators?

Texas, if you look at the election maps, is blue in the south, along the Mexican border. There are a few cities like Austin that are blue. But the rest of the state is blood red. The pukes in control down there would NEVER section off that state in such a way that even one of its possible sucessor states would anything but red. Let Texas stay as it is.

[acmejack]

7. Uh, folks, do we get any input on this?

Or are the citizens of Texas just part of the real estate package? Sorry the political scene has pissed you off, hasn't made me all that damn happy, either. Molly Ivins & Jim Hightower aren't very happy about it either, or so they said last evening. Do we all go too?

How about PDitty, Johncoby2, sonias, nopasaran, texasladylawyer, do I need to go on? We can't all be jerks, I will admit that I am, but all the people I listed, c'mon...

[Jack from Charlotte]

34. You get no say. Actually, it's not the real estate we care about.....

it the Texans we want to ship back. Maybe you can move to Cancun in your new country. Sell little nicnacs to Gringoes on the beaches. Goodbye, amigo.

[Nimrod2005]

8. I'd rather we give it back to Mexico, and lose the 2 senators!!!

[Zynx]

10. After all, we fought over it to spread slavery.

Mexico had abolished slavery. You tell me who the "good guys" were in that one...

[Bridget Burke]

12. Yes--the US government fought over it & for Manifest Destiny

Nobody north of the border was especially "good."

[Totally Committed]

25. Amen! ...

Give it back to Mexico! That will make Mr. Bush an illegal alien if he tries to work here again. (He always says Texas is his "home state".

TC

[Nimrod2005]

39. Don't worry about him working, he never does....

But his spanish would improve.

[onenote]

13. since when does Texas have the power to divide itself into four states?

Not so. The admission of a new state to the Union requires approval by both houses of Congress. It wouldn't happen.

onenote

[APPLE314]

14. it's a debatable issue --- see link...

<http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp>

The Constitution forbids it, but upon annexation Texas was granted the ability. The question is "Does a later agreement trump an article of the Constitution?"

[Javaman]

15. As long as Travis county is its own state, I'm fine with that.

Otherwise, I don't want to be part of some sort of "reorganization" to screw the only liberal voice in this this red state.

[BlueGirlRedState]

22. I think Travis County already is its own state...

At least it feels that way....

[eppur_se_muova]

16. Actually, it's five states...just to split hairs... nt

[Thirtieschild]

21. Thought I learned 5 states in Texas history

[Geoff R. Casavant]

18. Never happen

There would be too much fighting over who got the Alamo.

[eppur_se_muova]

24. Actually, each one would be named "Texas", and they would fight over which

was the REAL, ORIGINAL Texas.

That's the way it ALWAYS works.

[RoyGBiv]

27. Actually, not quite ...

Not as you word it, anyway. I know a lot of Texans like to think they have this so-called power, but it's not quite that simple.

Read the relevant section of the clause:

"New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof. . ." The implied actor here is the United States government, the only entity capable of granting territorial status or statehood to any section of land. The caveat here is that this may be done only "by the consent" of Texas.

In 1850, Texas granted consent to divide its territory, only not in the way intended with this clause. Portions of Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, and Oklahoma were once a part of the original Republic of Texas. Texas received financial compensation for selling this territory to the United States.

What had originally been intended was that the large territory could be divided in order to maintain the balance between slave and free states. That reasoning became moot after the Civil War, of course, but what remains is the requirement for the instigator in the division. Granted that Texas v. White held that unilateral secession is not possible, Texas cannot divide itself of its own accord either because the resulting divisions would have to be admitted either as territories or states or be separate from the Union. They cannot be separate (that's secession), resulting in the need for the US government to categorize the resulting divisions.

In short, this would have to be a cooperative effort between the state and federal government.

[Paladin]

29. A Suggestion For You Texas-Bashers

Write your ideas about splitting up Texas on 4 (or 5) good-sized pieces of paper. Then shove them all up your small intestines as far as they will go. It's likely to be a tight fit, given that your heads are already lodged up there.

I'm going to keep dispensing this kind of advice, as long as my entire state keeps getting shit-canned here in DU. It's tough enough being a Texas Democrat these days---there are hundreds of thousands of us, in case you didn't know---so why should we have to put up with this kind of broad-brush garbage from our own side? God forbid you should be supportive......

[crispini]

37. .

:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

Why haven't I seen you around the Texas forum? :hi: C'mon by, darlin' ! :yourock:

[Paladin]

40. Thank You Kindly

I check in at the Texas forum fairly often, but I don't seem to post there very much. I'll try to do better. And if we meet up at a DU get-together in the future, the first half-dozen beers are on me......

[AspenRose]

41. Shiner Bock, of course!

ps-this bashing is tame in comparison with what I saw before hurricane Rita made landfall last year. :puke:

[Castilleja]

38. ...

:applause: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[rainbow4321]

42. Think these same people would want us to broad brush all Americans?

As in "Hey, everyone who lives in America MUST support Bush cuz they are American just like him!" Just something to remember when one goes to bash Texans in general (like those who were glad we had the rolling blackouts to make up for what "Texas did to California"), etc...or perhaps the people who live in ANY red state..you must be repukes and support Bush just because you live in <insert Red State here>.

[Walt Disney]

32. Why stop with Texas? How about 435 states? One for each

congressional district.

[oasis]

36. Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins, Ann Richards and Sheila Jackson Lee, 4

new governors. :bounce: