Fact - Clark Blogs directing readers to vote in DU polls

[Hoppin_Mad]

  "Poll on Democratic Underground

By Anne

Posted to Anne's weblog (News and Links ) on Mon Dec 8th, 2003 at 03:29:48 PM EST
New poll on Democratic Underground. 

 Please go and vote! "   ( italics and bold mine )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=illegal code&poll_id=4322&choice=1& amp;forum=104&topic_id=849826



This message was carried on several different Blogs

Here's just one of the URLS

http://blog.forclark.com/story/2003/12/8/152948/904

Is there now any question why the DU polls are so skewed , or why so many Clark supporters are brand new to DU ?

I'd like to see a poll of members who have been here at least 6 months.

I have no question that the results would be dramatically different.

I guess that Kucinich and Dean would be running neck and neck with Kerry, Gebhardt and Clark in the next tier.


PS, If any Dean or other candidates blogs are doing the same, please document it, and I will condemn them equally.

[Padraig18]

1. I've known this for a month.

It's obvious to anyone with two eyes and a functioning brain what's been going on. :)

[TrueAmerican]

2. Dec 8th?

And no other Blogs have done this for other candidates?

Do I smell sour grapes?

[Padraig18]

4. Facts are incovenient things, aren't they?

:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

13. Search the Dean blog for those facts

That's how I found DU months ago.

[Hoppin_Mad]

31. Google turns up nothing !

In the first 15 pages of results ( all I looked ) for . .

"howard dean" "democratic underground" + poll + vote

Searching the same critera with Wesley Clark gives numerous results

[TakebackAmerica]

79. Hah, hah, Hah!

Wrong my sweet friend!!!!
http://pub10.ezboard.com/fhowarddean2004frm7.showMessage?topicID=480.topic


I love when I'm right. }(

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22howard+dean%22+%22democratic+underground%22

8th link down.

[Democrats unite]

82. Thank you for taking the time to show that when we don't tell the truth...

it's a...

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TakebackAmerica]

93. Merry Christmas!

And a Happy New Year.


BTW, I'm sorry for pissing you off. Sometimes I have to remeber were all on the same side.

[Hoppin_Mad]

105. Back at ya :-)

[Forkboy]

107. I think fuck you and piece of shit

should qualify as personal attacks :eyes:

[Hoppin_Mad]

83. Pitiful ! The Dean supporters aren't very good at Freeping either ! ;-)

[QC]

92. LOL!

[drfemoe]

100. Thanks for the link

Re: Democratic Underground poll has Clark ahead!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't the Democratic underground the organization that posted some stuff about wanting Iraqis to kill American soldiers? Perhaps we don't want Dean to win this poll...

Reply Re: Democratic Underground poll has Clark ahead!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The poll doesn't mean very much as it isn't a representative sample of likely democratic voters anywhere.

Reply WOW!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A completely unscientific poll! Wow, let's get all excited about THAT ...

[sleipnir]

80. Clark should denounce this behavior immediatly

Or resign from the race. This is a disgrace to his campaign.

[jjmalonejr]

3. Big deal.

Why do you care?

[ibegurpard]

8. I don't care except when they try to pass off one of their bogus DU polls

as anything other than an organized effort to spam the board.

[Bread and Circus]

11. Clark called me personally to vote for him in the last DU poll...

get a load of that guy!

[Padraig18]

16. LOL!

I keep Howard up to date on the results, too. I have his cell phone #. Really! :crazy:

[QC]

38. He and Gert showed up at my door with a green bean casserole.

So I figured voting for him in the DU poll was the least I could do.

[Northwind]

64. A green bean casserole?

That PROVES beyond doubt that Gephardt is not fit to be President!

[jjmalonejr]

21. Don't sweat it, though.

Polls are shifting all over and it's tough to tell exactly what's going to happen. Even though you're a Dean supporter, you have to admit that his nomination is not assured.

I wouldn't get bent out of shape about DU polls and whether they are fair or impartial or a real reflection of anything. They're about as accurate and reliable as most polls, which means not very.

[ibegurpard]

5. They're up to it again.

Someone outed them back before Clark actually got in the race as well. There's really nothing wrong with this but I AM getting a little tired of people...who must think that people are idiots... claiming that somehow DU has changed to support Clark. The only way that it has changed is through an organized influx of Clark supporters.

[Padraig18]

7. Go to the head of the class.

:thumbsup:

[Hoppin_Mad]

14. Bingo ! -eom-

[Demobrat]

22. Not to mention

the massive outflux of fed up Dean supporters who can't be bothered rebutting the same old tired attacks over and over.

[QC]

41. That works both ways, you know.

We still have people here posting discredited pro-Milosevic propaganda against Clark and acting like it's all brand new. It does get old dealing with that sort of thing, but whatever Rove dishes up next year will make DU look like an ice cream social at the Baptist church. If people can't take the heat now, they will surely end up in rubber rooms by election day.

[Hoppin_Mad]

43. That too

[Renew Deal]

27. Check post 23.

That should help with your concerns.

[jjmalonejr]

39. As you said, Clark supporters have flocked here.

Ergo, DU has changed.

[KittyWampus]

49. DU Has Never Been Static- I Remember The "Influx" Of Dean Supporters

:eyes:

[jjmalonejr]

88. Precisely

[mot78]

6. It's not like a Freeper infiltration of DU

Clark supporters have been coming here en masse (I'm one of them) since last summer during the "Draft Clark" period.

[maddezmom]

35. I found it from listening to CSPAN

a women called in about a website Smirking Chimp and then I followed links to here. Most folks are just tuning in to the primary elections.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

87. I've only recently registered

and begun posting, but I began lurking here addictively back in March as the war was starting. At that point I hadn't even heard of either Dean or Clark. All I was looking for was a liberal message board that wasn't full of people cheerleading the war. I really felt that I had found a home, and a group of likeminded people, even though I was too shy to post.

I initially became a Dean supporter on the basis of what I was reading here. I later became a Clark supporter the same way. I just didn't get the guts up to register and come out of lurkdom until after I had already settled on a candidate. I can't speak for any other Clark supporters, and maybe their has been an inappropriate push to flood DU, but I've seen plenty of new people who are Dean supporters as well.

I remember when people were suspiciously questioning why so many Dean supporters had such low post counts. I even remember a post that was directed at Dean supporters basically demanding to know who told them to come here.

Also the nasty and vicious attacks go all ways. I myself have never attacked another candidate, and never would because it's alienating, and makes your own candidate look bad, plus it's just plain bad manners.

[Closer]

9. That Clark supporters have

infiltrated DU is the understatement of the primaries.

:eyes:

Everyone knows the deal.


It's just a matter of time. Be patient.

[Bread and Circus]

15. Are we not welcome amongst you "real Democrats"...

I guess we are just a bunch of fakes because we haven't
learned how to kowtow to Dean.

[ibegurpard]

25. Oh for God's sake!

No one is saying that. Just stop trying to pass off these bogus DU polls as anything other than organized efforts.

[KittyWampus]

47. Please Provide Link To Posts Where Clark Supporters

try to pass off these bogus DU polls as anything at all.

I read this forum almost daily. And haven't seen a whole lot of mention of the DU Polls by Clark supporters.

[Scott Lee]

50. Its good to know you realize they are bogus polls. I agree.

Why they would be continually posted here is beyond me - maybe out of sheer desperation for being way behind Dean in national polls. Who knows.

[mouse7]

46. More concerned about "kowtowing" to Dean than beating Bush

Beating Bush is the desired outcome, not beating Dean.

With the way the Dean people have learned how to raise money, you better not piss them off. If Clark wins the nomination, he'll need that fundraising ability.

Keep up the attacks and the Dean fundraisers will sit it out in November.

[QC]

52. And if Dean wins the nomination, he'll need

the votes and volunteer efforts of those whom so many of his supporters have systematically alienated over the past few months. I mean, I know you people have THE POWER!! and everything, but you'll also need votes, so it would be wise not to burn bridges.

[mouse7]

71. Not "you people"... I'm ABB

Although dragging my put to the polls for Lieberman will be as fun as a root canal.

The big problem is people like Al From who are willing to drive the people that support Dean right back out of the party. These are people that stopped participating in politics (if they ever did) because of what politics devolved into. Al From is cushy in his position becoming a fat cat with bukku corporate buck. He forgot the democratic Party is about the people. Right now, Al from is telling people like you that Dean is alienating people. Dean isn't alienating people. Dean is alienating corporate interests.

If those like From who speak for corporate interests can make people like you believe Dean's fundraising and energy is alienating you, all the better.

[QC]

75. It's not fundraising and energy that are alienating me.

It's the relentless nastiness of some people, along with their conviction that they are the only true Democrats, that is alienating me.

Your post is an excellent example. You assume that I must feel as I do because I am too mindless to resist the evil influence of Al From. I couldn't care less about Al From. I don't sit here breathlessly waiting for his latest blastfax so that I'll know what to say. When I do think about Al From, it's generally a wish that he would just shut up and go away.

But if it makes you feel better to tell yourself that everyone who has reservations about any of this is just a puppet on Al From's strings, then feel free. It's marginally better than putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you!"

[Kool Kitty]

89. I think they call that "cutting off your nose

to spite your face". Beating Bush is indeed the goal, so why don't we all try acting like that? I prefer Clark, I would gladly vote for Dean, and I've been here for a long time.

[Eurobabe]

59. Quite frankly

this is why I choose to remain Independent, all the kool-aid drinking of both sides makes my stomach churn.

I hate the labels, and I HATE the divisive shit.

[Hoppin_Mad]

62. Yup - mighty 'independent' sounding name you chose , LOL

[Jerseycoa]

70. Funny

I was just talking to a friend about how evil everything has turned. I told him I would help elect Dean if he is the nominee, but then I would resign from the party and go independent. By then I will have been a Democrat 39 years, but I am that ready to bolt.

[maddezmom]

10. if Clark supporters are only joining to vote...I say it's a bad thing

But if they want to be part of the process, isn't it a good thing...getting more folks involved? When I first got here there was fund drive and I sponsered 2 folks ~ both BTW not supporters of my candidate of choice. People in the mainstream are now starting to get active.

[OrAnarch]

There are other reasons it may be bad...

Threads seem to get taken over sometimes by a certain brand of posters...for example, look at the foreign experience thread. A person wanting to make an honest discussion to find out information, but the whole thing turned into a 1 sided argument about one candidate. This gets in the way of educating others in our community and providing unbiased discussion pertaining to a certain issue, when there is a plurality of new supporters vehemetly pushing their one candidate as the best on any issue just to mass expose everyone to the idea.

[maddezmom]

45. you're right, but it goes both ways

and not all the offenders as you put it are new members. We all, no mattter how long we've been members have opinions.

[QC]

12. And this is a problem for what reason?

Anyone who is registered here is allowed to vote in the polls. Likewise, only people who are registered here are allowed to vote in the polls. So if they are voting in polls here, then they are registered members. It's not like Freepers hitting a CNN poll 500 times each.

Is there now any question why the DU polls are so skewed , or why so many Clark supporters are brand new to DU ?

I started coming here in 2001. So much for your theory.

[SahaleArm]

19. The problem seems to be that they don't support Howard Dean n/t

[QC]

26. Exactly. That does seem to be the real problem. n/t

[Scott Lee]

24. To make a splash with a series of bogus poll son a message board?

Sorry, clark supporters - this doesn't change the fact that your guy is nationally running way behind Dean. But if it makes you feel better, please - have at it.

[SahaleArm]

37. Was that an epiphany - that this board doesn't track nationally? n/t

[Scott Lee]

44. Was that an admission - that such tactics are really dumb?

[Kool Kitty]

91. Well, it doesn't make THIS Clark supporter

feel better. Kind of a broad brush, don't you think? We're aren't all like that.

[KittyWampus]

17. Condemn?

Condemn them equally?

Will they have to wear a Scarlet "C" ?

[mot78]

18. What about the blogger's response to criticism

Well taken (#2) (No rating)

by Anne (Anne at forclark dot com) on 12/08/2003 05:53:52 PM EST
Parent | Reply

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I did not mean for people just to go to DU for the poll. Many of the bloggers have accounts over there as well. It's just they may not be aware of the poll. I do read a little out on DU, but only posted for the first time today when it came to the General Clark -- Positive Candidate Discussion. I find I hardly have time for this blog... but I do try and see the bigger picture. Thanks for reminding us to!

[OrAnarch]

20. I was also curious...

when I saw the polls change overnight. Just made me wonder. Now I am sure there must be some other candidate blogs somewhere probably doing the same thing...not sure. Youll never know as to what level. But such does give a false sense of who has the most support, which is frustrating when such flies in the face of national polls, etc.



I do wonder, and I am sure I may get a hard time for this, but does such explain why there seems to be a sudden influx of semi-consevative veiwpoints on this board? Anti-regulation pro military biases? I don't know...I hate to be presumptuous to associate such characteristics with Clark supporters and such is probably wrong, but I feel like I am increasingly arguing those stupid points with very new board members with all the same avatars.

[Renew Deal]

23. Fact: Clark won this poll with registration closed

for 2 days before and 2 days after.

Fact 2: Clark has a lot of support on DU.

Fact 3: Sounds like you got sour grapes for Christmas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1154

[Padraig18]

32. Which falls withing the last month.

Your point? :shrug:

[Renew Deal]

42. That no one could register just to vote.

They were already members.

[Padraig18]

55. Registration was NOT closed for the entire last month.

:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

57. So what???

That has nothing to do with nothing. There is one post about DU on the Clark blog for the last month. So either people registered and stayed or they never registered. There was nothing on the Clark blog for the poll I posted. So if they weren't regulars that were also here for that 24 hours, they never knew about it.

[Padraig18]

60. So you've not noticed a HUGE influx of brand-spanking new Clark folks?

Right. :eyes:

[Scott Lee]

28. That is so sad.

And really immature, but I repeat myself...

[Demobrat]

29. If it makes them feel good to freep DU polls

I say let them have their fun. It must be a nice break from reality for them.

[Scott Lee]

48. Oh man you nailed that one.

[jumptheshadow]

30. A poll of people who have been here for six months?

The Clark campaign isn't that old.

So in other words, you want to automatically eliminate anybody who has been energized by his or her support for Clark?

That's a great way to kick voters in their crotches.

[Padraig18]

36. Almost as good as kicking dean supporters in their teeth daily.

GD-P has become a non-stop flame fest, as was GD for a month before this forum's creation, featuring Howard Dean as the main course. You could at least acknowledge that much, before asking us to cry alligator tears for the Clark supporters...:eyes:

[QC]

40. The kicking goes both ways.

I get tired of having my intelligence, mental stability, and loyalty to the party questioned on a daily basis simply because I do not share the candidate choice of some people here.

[Sibanetta]

53. Finally Enthused

Prior to General Clark's declaring his candidacy, I was supporting Dean,,,financially, but although I like Dean, I have never thought he could win...and isn't this supposed to be about beating Bush?
Clark has the perfect resume to run against a weasel like Bush. He's smart, informed and is a freakin' military hero! Line that alongside Gee Dub's going awol from TANG. There is no way Dean is going to take the south, and Clark can. They love heroes!

BTW, when I registered here, I thought that this a site for all Democrats. Is it? Or are you only allowed to participate if you are a Dean supporter?

I thought that the whole point was to get rid of that lying, cheating, cowardly bastard in the White House...I'd vote for Mickey Mouse if it meant Bush was defeated!

Sibanetta

[Lisa0825]

61. If you noticed how many "attack Dean" threads there are...

you'd have the answer to your question.

[QC]

65. Yes, it all goes one way, doesn't it?

Only Dean gets attacked here.

Take a look at the front page and tell me again that only Dean gets attacked around here.

[Lisa0825]

73. Did I *say* only? Did you happen to see my other post in this thread

in which I say I get tired of both Dean and Clark supporters bitching?

[Padraig18]

66. "Roast Dean" is the blue-plate special at GD-P *every freakin' day*!

3 meals a day AND the midnight snack--- Gov. Dean flambe'...:grr:

[Lisa0825]

33. as long as it isn't the official blog,posted by campaigners, i don't care.

I would bet that blogs from every campaign have directed people to DU at some point. I am a Dean supporter, and yes, I have posted links here before, both for interesting articles or threads, and occasionally a poll. However, it is NOT like people wait around to see me post a DU poll, and then everyone instantly obeys my command and rushes here to vote, and I seriously doubt it's that way with Clark supporters either.

Do I htink there was a somewhat organized effort to get Clark supporters to join here? Maybe? But so what? I could just do without the sniping.

It's hard to like both Dean and Clark, since both sides bitch so damn much.

[windansea]

34. I see Clark people........

"I have no question that the results would be dramatically different"


OK then!! :)

[Jerseycoa]

51. Jesus Christ Almighty

What is next?

"I'd like to see a poll of members who have been here at least 6 months."

[madfloridian]

54. Just do a search at the blog link in the first post.

Do the same at the forum for another major candidate. Use the search term "dean".

At the above blog just now I got almost 800 hits and still more were there. You will recognize user names who have launched attacks here, and you will recognize tactics.

Do the search.

[msanger]

56. who cares about DU polls?

I mean, I assumed they were just for fun. They certainly don't tell you anything other than what people who happened to see the polls and who bothered to vote in them - thought.

So what if Clark, or Dean, or anybody else gets their people to vote in these polls. Isn't that DUers are always being called on when we "freep" or "unfreep" those Tweety polls.

Given what is at stake in this election, it seems we'd all be better served if we kept our ammo dry for bush&co.

[madrchsod]

68. i agree ,really who gives a shit?

the sky is falling,said chicken little!!!!just about everyday someone posts " vote in this poll" ,"unfreep this poll",and on and on.so now everyone gets all crazy cause-oh my god!!! someone is voting that isn`t "supposed" to...get a life-this is the real world and things just may not be how you would like things to run...dam,i guess if someone other than your boy wins you`ll take your ball and go home.
it`s the every well funded and organized bush klan`s drive to strip our freedoms- that we have to fight..there is to much energy being wasted bitch`n among ourselves...

[Jim Sagle]

63. Dean dropped off a Thanksgiving turkey just to get me to shill for him.

;-)

[madrchsod]

72. hell- dean dropped a

turkey on my head because he heard i may vote for clark.

[Padraig18]

74. He was gonna write me a 'scrip for Oxycontin.

But I told him to give one to Rush, instead. :P

[bitchkitty]

67. I didn't know his page was

advising people to "freep" polls. That's disturbing. I thought it was all the new "Democrats" who have suddenly sprung up out of nowhere.

[JohnLocke]

69. Nah - Edwards would be higher

[Democrats unite]

76. Just goes to show that Clark supporters are more organized...

Than Dean supporters. But some people here want to put the blame anywhere but where it belongs sometimes.

P.S. Also shows who's good at get out the vote.


on edit: you might just wander over to the ask the admins section and read a post this poster that started this thread, posted. Pretty much sums up the attitude.

[Jim Sagle]

86. You wish.

[Scott Lee]

96. at poll freeping buffoonery, perhaps.....

[SahaleArm]

97. Don't worry too much Dean supporters still take the cake n/t

[Forkboy]

109. That the Clark supporters baked

Both groups are so identical it's scary.And you act just like those you decry on many an occasion.

I tell ya,if I was influenced by a candidates supporters in any way neither Dean or Clark would ever get my vote.Two massive groups of hypocritical crybabies whining over whose pick is better.Just like the fanboy kids when they got their Playstaion or XBox or Gamecube.Go to gaming forum and change the name of the game systems with the candidates names and you still get the same lame braindead arguments that boil down to "oh yeah,well my pick is better than your pick,so nyah". :eyes:

[Myra]

77. Is this on the official/staff blog, or the public/community blog?

It looks like the public/community blog but I'm not sure.

[vdeputy]

78. I don't understand why some are angry

I found DU when it was frequently mentioned on the Clark group although not necessarily to get people to vote, just mentioning what people were posting. For quite a while, I just lurked and didn't post. That's when DU was having its big fund drive and since I enjoyed coming here, I popped for a donation. I then began posting although not often and not always on threads about politics. I am a big Clark fan so naturally, if I saw a candidate's poll, I voted for Clark. Is that not all right? Should new people not be allowed to vote even though we gave a donation to support DU?

I've never criticized Dean or any other candidate although I have posted about why I think Clark would be more likely to beat Bush than any of the others.

I don't see anything wrong with people encouraging others to come vote. I would think all the candidate's supporters would do that. It's not like these polls are "official" - they are just for our internal enjoyment. If the Dean people don't remind their folks to vote, they should if they feel that strongly about their candidate winning. We're not "cheating", just supporting our candidate. I don't see why that makes some people so angy.

[Myra]

81. I think it's the public/community blog

In which case...what is the big deal???
Supporters will post all kinds of things on blogs.
WTF is the big deal?

[MoonRiver]

85. There's nothing wrong with coming here and joining in!

My gosh, what has this board become when we discourage political activists to participate if we disagree with their choice of a Dem presidential candidate?????

I also don't attack Dean or any except Lieberman. I'd even vote for him if by some miracle he got the nomination. We're all fighting against a common enemy, who's not a Democrat, at least the last time I checked.

Enough with my personal rant. Welcome to DU vdeputy! :hi:

[ibegurpard]

106. It's not cheating

Just stop trying to tell people that it means anything more than Clark supporters are very good at organizing people to vote in a self-selected internet poll.

[NashVegas]

90. Why Does This Surprise Anyone?

Haven't you seen enough "Clark/Dean/whomever supporters, check in," threads?

There are campaign workers/volunteers aplenty on DU. Clark doesn't own all of them.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

94. Great. Anyone who clicks DU can see anything about any of the candidates

That can only be good since not all clicking on Clark's threads are necessarily die hard Clark fans.

I think it's great that General Clark would send customers the DU so that they can evaluate the entire field of candidates whether they rig a poll or not.

[Tinoire]

95. And not just DU polls - Just join Clark's Army

http://www.clarks-army.com/ and from there you will be directed to descend en masse, to all the internet polls out there, with the stealth of a clumsy commando raid.

To wit: CNN Poll- Clark 91%; give me an effin' break- this one is so ridiculously overkilled that Clark supporters don't even mention it/ http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/6110.html


I won't even post poll links here anymore because of the way they end up getting freeped- just like a recent DU poll that had to be shut down: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=849826#850952

[windansea]

98. i am so confused!

i thought Dean was the internet guru

[SahaleArm]

99. As good as Clark supporters are - 1,640,784 votes?

I don't think there are that many people signed up:)

[Tinoire]

102. Same thing observant many people said

:shrug:

[SahaleArm]

104. Translation? n/t

[FrenchieCat]

101. Sounds like a lot of

whining to me.
So sad, so sad.

But Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

[Gman]

103. Who cares? Everyone here is political anyway.

Good grief. DU is an Internet forum... not the Democratic primary.

[Forkboy]

108. So?

DU polls are just as useless as any other poll.We should ignore all of them equally.

[incapsulated]

110. This is really awful because...

The half-dozen or so polls that are done on this forum every day really mean something and people will be elected or not because of them.

Wait... That's not true. What was the reason I'm supposed to care, again?

[Moderator]

111. I am locking this thread.

Insinuating that new DU members who support Clark are disruptors is a rule violation. Please read DU rules. All Democrats are welcome here.


DU Moderator