The tide is turning, thanks goes to Dean

[WWW]

I was in the grocery store today and met up with an Independent, who the week before, I had convinced to come to our caucus on Sunday.

"Will I see you Sunday?", I asked.

"No," she said, "The Democrats just don't have it together. If they can't all get behind one candidate now, I don't know how I can expect them to run this country. I guess I am going to stick with Bush. You don't see them (Republicans) fighting like that."

"Yah, okay," I said, "but what made you change your mind?"

"Well," she said, "Kerry looked like he was in the lead, and I thought as soon as New Hampshire was over they would stop bashing each other. But it didn't happen."

Another vote lost.

[killbotfactory]

1. Democracy sucks, get behind Kerry

Whatever.

[progressivebydesign]

31. Yes.. we should have remembered.. the primary season is only one week!

Silly us.. I was all set to caucus in my state this weekend. I forgot that the primary only consisted of two states. My bad.

This person was looking for a reason to bash the Democrats. What a ridiculous thing to say. Ummm... does that person remember any GOP primaries??? Same thing. That's what the primaries are for. The GOP is behind their candidate because there is only ONE. And.. last election, it was ugly... last dog standing.. blowout in the GOP primary. I find the tone of this whole thread to be pretty rude. Rather, it would have been better for you to educate your acquaintance in Democracy 101, and remind them that this is the nature of primaries. Any reason to bash Dean..

[slinkerwink]

2. thanks to Kerry, we lost someone that could really challenge bush

on IWR, NCLB, and the Patriot Act.

[blm]

16. Dean SUGGESTED a Patriot Act days after 9-11.

And his centrist, procorporate record is no source of comfort to the left.

Or his service record, or his support of deregulation in his state, or his coziness with the CATO Institute, or his dealings with the BFEE Koch brothers, or his sealed records of those dealings, or his remarks against the judicial system and civil liberties in the courts.

[killbotfactory]

23. No he didn't.

[EllieDem]

3. And I think its going to get uglier

I hope for our party's sake some of the candidates read this site and see your post

[nini]

4. that is sooo stupid.. this is how primarys are

things aren't decided in one week..

:eyes:

[WiseMen]

17. I have never seen as much "reaching" for attack issues as from Dean

[Mass_Liberal]

5. what?

I'm sorry, you can't say Dean is the only one who has bashed. How about all the people that ganged up to bash Dean?



I'm not saying Dean didn't attack others, he did. But it's not fair to say that he's the only one.

[Duncan Grant]

6. Bandwagon, bandwagon, bandwagon.

:yawn:

[rucky]

7. Did you take that opportunity to remind her about John McCain?

or should we blame Dean for not bringing up that point.

[Ninga]

8. I have a story too!

I went to a Super Bowl (opps I said Bowel, really Janet's fault) party wearing my Dean button. Several folks related how they really took a long look at Gov. Dean when he was on Meet The Press.

One person said he was honesy, one person said he was really straight forward no BS.

Many said they would continue to look at him.

So you see, there are some good stories too.

[cthrumatrix]

28. more of the positive Dean stories..for people that actually read and

follow the "media hit"...as opposed to the content of his message.

[deminflorida]

9. Trying to sneak away with the nomination before everyone

realizes you were Dikakis's Lt. Governor are we????

hmmmmmmmm...

[Gato Moteado]

10. next time you see her....

...ask her what she thought of bush smearing john mccain with lies during the 2000 repuke primaries.

[Ramsey]

11. That's an anecdote

We are supposed to see a tide turning based on one moron's illogical thought processes? And believe me, I do not respect the mindset of a person who will stick with Bush, the worst president in the history of this nation, because the Democrats are bashing each other during the primary! She didn't even mention Dean specifically.

Besides we don't see the Republicans fighting like that because Bush in unchallenged. Duh! Republicans do bash each other and are much nastier about it than the Dems have ever been. Remember John McCain?

:eyes:

[creativelcro]

12. I was in the post-office today and also met up with an

Independent, who is a long-time friend of mine and has voted in every election.

"Will you vote in the primary?"

"Probably not", he said "if the Democrats want to pick their candidate way before all of us has had any input, then I'm not voting Dem"

"But will you support a Dem candidate in Nov?"

"It depends on who it is... I would support Dean... Definitely not Kerry... Perhaps Edwards"

"Why not Kerry ?"

"C'mon! He's the worst the Dem party has to offer -laugh-..."

Another Dem vote lost. Thank you senator Kerry.,

[mitchum]

20. And there was this girl at a high school across town...

whatever...

Kerry 2004

[mzmolly]

13. OY!!! Gimme me a break!

I was told *by Kerry supporters* that we'd be hashing this out until Fall when Dean was the front runner.

Tell the next person you run into at the market that America consists of 52 States and only 2 have had their say.

Why on earth didn't she mention..Clark, Edwards, and others still in the race? Or don't they count?

[bobbieinok]

14. 9 months to election - and people still arguing, persuading

gosh oh gee isn't DEMOCRACY..........MESSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we (US or democrats) want one message and one candidate NOW, let's just dump democracy and the primaries/caucuses and election and just go with THE ONE - aWol.

In other words, I don't think she understands how democracy works.

Unfortunately, way too many Americans don't understand democracy either.

[ShaneGR]

15. Kind of a VERY flawed argument

One thing that really turned me increasingly to Edwards/Clark was the original Dean thing about losing support if we didn't back Dean. It felt threatening to me. If anything, it made me redouble efforts against him.

So now I see a Kerry line about getting together quickly because we're losing Republican votes? Ummmm, as far as I know March 2nd is the date. After that day, whoever has it locked up, I'm sticking that mans name on the back of my car and writing a check to his campaign ASAP.

Until then, scare tactics don't work.

[Straight Shooter]

21. Super nice photo of super nice Edwards with the marching band

Smiles all around.

:)

[stopbush]

18. What a cheap response from that woman!

What, she'll vote for a mass murderer because the Dems are enmeshed in their primary season, a season that is front-loaded at that? Or is it that her attention span is so lacking that she can't handle a primary season that's all of 3 weeks old? Any mention of the positions that any of our candidates hold? Didn't think so.

You know, sometimes you have to admit that people are simply shallow and, frankly, uninterested.

[salin]

19. How sad - deciding to vote for bush regardless of his policies?

I do hope that rather than taking this as a vindication of one's anti-Dean sentiments... that you continued to the conversation to get the voter to articulate WHY they were considering any democrat in the first place - and to push on those types of issues as being what matters to the country - not infighting in a primary. Or you could also remind this voter of the bush/McCain primaries that when on quite a lot longer than the end of January - and included a great deal of bashing (remember McCains "illegitimate black child" stories floated in South Carolina?)

If this vote was lost, then there is more work to be done on our end of HOW to discuss policies (dem - any of them - vs. Bush) - because in the end it is THESE votes - not candidate infighting that will win votes and turn the election.

[WWW]

25. Okay she cited Dean's negative comments about Kerry n/t

[salin]

33. but again - why was she considering voting dem to begin with

to flip back to bush - means the issues are not a big concern - this is where you should take the conversation. Bush vs economy; Bush vs War war war (regardless of intelligence); Bush vs Terror (pulls intel and $ and military resources OUT of afghanistan to pursue IRaq... and taliban AND alqeada have regrouped... what does she think about all those renewed terror alerts... any relationship to his weakening on those efforts in order to pursue iraq?); Bush vs Jobs (makes agreements with India to fight any efforts by states to try to prevent outsourcing... does more as pres to protect foreign jobs than us jobs).

This is where the battle for votes will have to happen next year - this has given you a great opportunity to hone those skills. Find the issue she/he will engage on - and start talking about it and bush.... and does the infighting change the bush problems?

Dean is correct about something: WE have the power in this next election. WE have the power to change minds and votes - why? because the facade on the bushco, even with the media assists, is getting so weakened and cracked that one on one conversations - if WE pursue them and keep at them - and do so on points of substance... then WE get the votes out... while his supporters grow more and more disillusioned and more and more likely to stay home.

[WWW]

22. My point is we all have to get together.

If Dean wins tomorrow... fine. If Clark wins... fine. If Kerry or Edwards win...fine. We have to unite. That is all I am saying. No more bashing. Let tomorrow decide who we get behind. We have to win in November by a resounding vote. No more third party talk...It is all about beating Bush.

[Ramsey]

27. That is not at all what you were saying

The title and body of your post specifically blames Dean for causing a turning "tide" of Independent voters against the eventual Democratic nominee, whoever that may be, and into voting for Bush, and strongly implies that this is because Dean is the sole source of any bashing that is occurring.

How is that even remotely saying we all need to pull together? And why on earth should tomorrow decide who we all support? By my last count the VAST majority of delegates have yet to be relegated and there are over 40 more states yet to choose their delegates.

Don't try to hide behind nice words now, after you put the accusation out there. This is just another anti-democratic, jump on the Kerry bandwagon post. Plain and simple. This tactic does not entice or impress.

[WWW]

34. Yes we all need to pull together....

I am a nice person and I am not hiding behind nice words. We need to all pull together after tomorrow. We need to let Bush know that we are united and we are coming. I don't care who the candidate is...but quit the bashing...

[Zinnola]

29. Hell No!

I am a Dean supporter and with a few delegates (sarcasm on) would like to be part of the process to see how he does out here. I am guessing Kerry is going to win most tomorrow if Clark or Edwards do not cause an upset (hopefully). But I am NOT jumping on the Kerry bandwagon until Dean pulls out or wins the nomination.

Stop short shrifting big ass states like CA where I am from.

[Duder]

24. Yeah right, what's the difference...

[DebJ]

30. love the cartoon. So very very true

[nankerphelge]

26. Anyone that vapid...

was going to vote for Bush anyway. Maybe she'll reassess her position after four more years of Bush when she's (1) unemployed, (2) without health insurance, (3) had family members drafted, (4) lost her right to choose through appointment of zealots to the Supreme Court, (5) dying from pollution related diseases, etc....

[DebJ]

32. offset by a Republican vote gained ... for Howard Dean

fiance's best friend, staunch Repub for 20 years, ditching Bush over the immigration plan which he sees as a threat to jobs, and says no way he'd ever vote for Kerry. But Dean is ok. Your example that woman probably won't even bother to vote, our guy will.

Net score: one extra vote from Repubs, and it is for Dean

[Moderator]

35. locking

1. If you start a thread in this forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether a thread topic is inflammatory.