Why censure/impeachment calls by left-wingers are a rash, bad move.

[espera17]

First, here's my plug: http://electionpredictions.blogspot.com . This is taken from Crystal Ball but sums up my opinion on these ridiculous censure calls:

The Democrats' 2006 mistake, if it continues, will be the chorus calling for Bush's censure or impeachment, which has now reached the front pages of prominent newspapers and magazines. This left-wing fantasy has been stoked by many of the usual liberal suspects and bloggers, and also by Senator Russell Feingold of Wisconsin, who failed to consult with his colleagues and has been mainly shunned by them in the aftermath of his censure call. As intended by Feingold, the lefty blogosphere has rallied around the Senator's nascent presidential campaign, and the party's left wing may adopt Feingold as its new Howard Dean.

What is good for Feingold in '08 is poison for Democrats in '06, however. Republican leaders have welcomed the move, already using it to raise money. Mainly, though, censure and impeachment threats are being used to activate the Republican base. Somewhat disgruntled after President Bush's and Congress' missteps in the past year, the GOP base has been in danger of voting at a low rate, giving Democrats the turnout edge for the first time since 2000. But now, Republican leaders can reasonably say that if Democrats gain control of Congress, a serious effort at censure or impeachment will follow. The Democratic hierarchy has been smart enough to realize that the left is on the verge of creating a similar situation to 1998, when GOP efforts to impeach President Clinton produced an electoral backlash. Surprising Democratic triumphs replaced expected Republican congressional gains in Clinton's sixth-year election. How ironic it would be if Democrats in 2006 imitated the Republican goof of 1998, if the "sixth-year itch" turned out to be one that infected Democrats instead of Republicans!

We're a long way from that point, and Democrats with cooler heads may have the opportunity to flash-freeze their hot-footed activists--and Feingold. Naturally, the GOP hopes that there's a party-wide shortage of Freon all the way to November.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Welcome to DU!

I like your post, but... prepare your flame suit anyway. :popcorn:

[rocktivity]

2. THEY wrote the rules!

If lying to Congress about making love is impeachable, how can lying to Congress about making war NOT be?

:headbang:
rocknation

[InternalDialogue]

3. Great phrase!

I'm gonna crib it from you.

:thumbsup:

[espera17]

5. wrong thinking

It's not about whether or not it is impeachable. It is about winning the 2006 elections and gaining majorities in Congress. Calling for impeachment and censure will only motivate turnout among the Republican base. Depressing GOP turnout is the key to winning these close elections. You will not do that by letting Republican lawmakers tell party members that if Democrats win Bush will be impeached.

[pstans]

7. Not everything is about winning elections

It is about being a nation of laws and not one person being above the law.

[espera17]

11. then how will the resolutions ever pass

If the Democrats aren't concerned about winning elections, they may as well throw censure and impeachment calls to the wind, because nothing will ever get past a Republican congress.

[mitchtv]

22. Stand up for principles

and just maybe the Dems will start winning an election or two. Be an Opposition party with a back bone

[FogerRox]

80. exactly

[Lerkfish]

33. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar: it was breaking the law and should be

treated as such. Election be damned.

[bee]

67. exactly. n/t

[JuniperLea]

45. The truth stands on two legs...

Lies on one.

If you stick to truth and principles, eventually things will turn around.

[rocktivity]

19. DING DING DING! Pstans, you're our grand prize winner!

It is about being a nation of laws and not one person being above the law.

That's exactly what I meant, and it's why we HAVE to do it--it's the PROPER thing to do, both procedurally AND morally. Besides, if we don't inflame OUR base, we're going to lose anyway.

:headbang:
rocknation

[spag68]

20. votes

not doing anything will depress dem. votes

[MissWaverly]

72. I just saw Nancy Pelosi on Jim Lehrer tonight

She was saying that the Dems would not rule out pre-emptimve strikes, what I am worried
about is a nuclear strike against Iran by a president who knows no bounds, we need something
now to rein in his power, he will still be in office for 3 more years, there may not
be a country left. Has our responsibility to govern descended down to campaigning only, is that all we care about, not Iraq in meltdown or the rise of a police state. I am sorry but we are in a serious crisis now. It is not business as usual Democratic Leadership. We can't afford to sit around like jello molds for 3 more years while this country descends into the abyss just because you want to be popular. It's time that people realize that they have an obligation to the constitution and the laws of this country and the American people and not just their campaign managers, friendly PACS and the pollsters. This is especially true now that they have spread their hellish tampering to voter registration
so that more Democratic voters can be suppressed, how can the democrats not see this.
Did they not see what happened in Chicago?

[FogerRox]

79. Russ got a bump in the polls

classic electorial politics. Make your case, then take it to the people. SImple, and is the Wellstone mantra.

Russ just showed you how to win in '06.

[JuniperLea]

8. Yow! This needs pared down to bumper sticker size!

Great!

[Zookeeper]

91. Remember...

we're talking about rethuglicans. They lie, cheat, steal and are offended if anyone questions their "right" to do so.

[yurbud]

102. why would someone vote for what appears to be a dead possum?

the original post is worried about the GOP using this to activate their base, but ignores the fact that the Democrats kick their base in the balls again and again.

The Democrats are like a guy who proves how tough he is by slapping around his wife, then when someone makes a rude comment about her in public, he claims he doesn't even know her.


The Democrats actions are not signs of trying to win. They are signs of trying to prove they will be as obedient to the corporate elite as the GOP has been, only doing it better.

[JuniperLea]

4. NOT to censure anyone who feels they are above the law

is not only ridiculous, but dangerous and asinine, imho. To sit by and let someone impose their own will on law is as treasonous as the action itself. And to assign political reasons for not doing such a thing is ludicrous.

[pstans]

6. We need more Dems that stand up and fight

Feingold was right to introduce the censure. The Senate Intell Committee had said that they were no longer going to investigate the domestic wiretapping. The following Monday, Feingold introduced the censure. I think most people understand that the censure and impeachment of the president because of this motion is very unlikely. However, Feingold's motive was more likely to be to further investigate the domestic wiretapping. Most Senators have said they don't know enough to make a judgement. Because of the censure, the Senate Judiciary Committee is holding hearings tomorrow. These heartings would not have happened if Feingold had not introduced the censure. The investigation on the domestic wiretapping would have over, the 4th Ammendment torn up, and Bu$h would be off scotch free.

[espera17]

9. wrong

Feingold's censure was only to position himself among the liberal wing of the party for 2008. What he is doing is motivating the Republican base, which will hurt the Democrats in 2006. I am not saying let's ignore the wrong actions. I am merely saying that we should tone it down for another couple months until after the elections.

[The Magistrate]

16. There Is Our Own Base To Consider As Well, Sir

It is far from just "the liberal wing" that recognizes something must be done to uphold the Constitution against law-breaking by the Executive.

It is also true that the udnecided middle, protestations to the contrary, enjoys a good fight and responds to the side most passionately combative in its presentation. There is a tremendous amount of "buyer's remorse" current in the political landscape, much of it among idnependent voters, and a line like this may well appeal to this.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[pstans]

21. 44% of Americans approved the censure

That is more than just the leftwing moonbats.

[struggle4progress]

62. Zogby Poll: Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping

Zogby Poll: Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping
Submitted by Bob Fertik on January 13, 2006 - 10:34pm.Impeachment
For Release: January 16, 2006

New Zogby Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping

By a margin of 52% to 43%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge's approval, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003. <snip>

http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-2

[bread_and_roses]

70. YES! Well said, Sir! (n/t)

[sendero]

87. What..

.... he said. :)

If this isn't a time for impeachment, there never has been. Legally, politically, ethically.

The country is READY to wash its hands of this regime, we are going to give them closure.

[pstans]

17. Have you listened to Feingold speak about this?

Or have you listened to Rush, O'Lielly, and Hannity?

Here is an in depth interview with Russ on the Charlie Rose show. Watch and see if you change your mind.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1004275469664146873&q=tvshow%3ACharlie_Rose

I don't believe that the only reason Feingold called for the censure was because of 2008. He has stood on principle and stood up for the rule of law waaaay too many times in his career to being playing politics.

[AndyA]

23. Wrong - toning it down hasn't helped the Dems so far

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch, the Repugs are screaming bloody murder!

Can't let gays get married - gotta protect the sanctity of marriage!

The Dems used Cheney's gay daughter to make a point! OUTRAGE!! OUTRAGE!!!

And countless others.

The Dems need to be screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs between now and the elections - a LOT of Repugs are not going to vote Republican - they are FED UP!

And with every new scandal, every new revelation, they are losing more and more voters. The Dems will win, but they need to put the pressure on, not tone it down.

[KoKo]

25. What gives you privileged info about what's in Feingold's mind, though.

Where is your info that motivating the Repug base by trashing Feingold will turn out Repugs in the fall and the Dems so upset about Bush Censure will stay home? :shrug:

[July]

58. "only to position himself among the liberal wing of the party for 2008"

And you know this how?

Feingold has always followed his convictions, even when he was a lone voice. He may also want to run for president. So? Suddenly his habit of independence is just an indicator that he may run? I don't think so.

"Tone it down for another couple months until after the elections" = just what the Republican Party wants.

Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. The Republican base is shrinking, thanks to Georgie-boy's foolishness, and Feingold is keeping accountability -- something more and more interesting to "the base" -- on the table. Works for me, and for many others.

[MissWaverly]

74. tone it down, the Dems have been silent for 6 years

how could we have been more silent and what is the perfect result, the planet is
in peril due to Greenhouse gases while the boy king boycotts the Kyoto treaty, there
are thousands dead from a war that we are still not clear why we invaded Iraq. We
have lost a major US city and people are still living in tents with only 2 months
to go to a new hurricane season. And we have had 2 stolen presidential elections,
the American people have been quiet what is the reward for this, only threats of
a nuclear strike against Iran. Gotta love it. Oh, but you can't speak up, just
keep silent and watch for the happy ending.

[FogerRox]

81. wrong Russ just showed how to win in '06.

Wellstone style.

[Seabiscuit]

97. "Tone it down"? Town it DOWN? TONE IT DOWN???

The problem with the Democratic Party is that it has not yet learned to REV IT UP! Spinlessness for the sake of re-election? Shit, man, it's the spinelessness of the Dems that has cost them elections.

Don't try to bolster your argument with some phony knee-jerk assumption that Feingold's only acting out of personal ambition. There is no evidence whatsoever to support such an insulting assumption.

Feingold is doing the right thing. Being a leader about an issue that urgently needs attention. Boldness such as his is the way to win elections.

Kerry lost to Bush essentially because he gave voters the impression he was merely Bush-Lite. The voters apparently preferred the real thing, as smelly as Bush was. I'm not bashing Kerry here - he's really improved immensely since the election. Just using his campaign (which I'm sure he would like to conduct differently now if he had the chance) as an example.

[BillZBubb]

10. So we don't fire up our base because it fires up their base?

This article is nonsense. We need to get the Democratic base energized again. Nothing would do that like the promise of investigating the many crimes of the Bush maladministration.

Your post is a classic example of why Democrats continue to lose. We are afraid to take tough stands on what we would do because we don't want to bother certain voters. In the end, we look like wimps. Your post is for wimps.

[spag68]

12. censure

I disagree with your view. I think that for too long dems. have given the bulldog up to the repubs. I've seen a lot of politics since truman and believe me having reps. like Meek of Fla. and Ryan of Ohio out there beating the drum, as long as they back it up, is a good thing for our party. I guess it comes down to, do you think ,in your gut that he should be gone or not? I've always said that if we have to become them to win then we have lost.

[Vincardog]

13. if Democrats gain control of Congress, a serious effort at censure or

impeachment MUST follow. The GOP efforts to impeach President Clinton produced an electoral backlash because they were the result of a six year witch hunt.
Clinton was impeached for getting a BJ that was BULLSHIT.

Commander Lord Pissypants has lied us into war.
He has instituted spying on US citizens without cause or warrant.

He is trampling on the constitution and stripping us of our rights by virtue of some mythical "War Powers" he claims as a result of this personnel crusade against Islam.

Real Democrats will stand up and proudly say
"I am against the occupation of IRAQ and hell yes I will demand IMPEACHMENT and full investigation into the illegal unconstitutional acts of the Bush cabal."

Get with it the "Leaders" need to join the VAST MAJORITY of PEOPLE who oppose Imperial AmeriKKKa.

[PurpleChez]

14. There is much truth in what you've said,

and yet I hate the thought of the Chimp Squad thinking that they've escaped responsibility AGAIN.

[SteppingRazor]

15. Looked over your blog. I've been doing 2006 Senate predictions for a while

Currently, I've got the final results at 50-50 with Cheney breaking the tie for a GOP majority. Interestingly, I put TN and OH in the Dem. gain category, but not MO. What's your methodology?

[espera17]

24. not my blog

I just really like the site, so I put a little mention in my first post, to generate the site owner some traffic.

[KoKo]

18. Do you have a link...this sounds like it's from Larry Sabato...and

was already posted here this morning. I didn't find anything on your link that seemed to give the text you posted.

Here's the link to this mornings post which sounds like yours:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x792066

[espera17]

29. same link

i mentioned it was from Crystal Ball, which is Larry Sabato's site.

[The Magistrate]

37. Sabado Sold His Soul To The Impeachment Of President Clinton, Sir

His comments in the matter at hand suffer in consequence....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[peacetalksforall]

38. Larry Sabato? I've listened to that guy for years and I am left with

the impression that he would like nothing more than have Democrats lose and go away completely. Doesn't deserve my respect. Maybe I don't know enough even if I know something. Thumbs down on Larry Sabato.

[KoKo]

39. I hit the link you gave.....I wish you'd mentioned Sabato/Crystal Ball

Most of us aren't aware that it's his site. I followed the link to your blog which said it was getting lots of traffic from Democratic Underground.

[RufusEarl]

26. Well Democrats don't walk and think in lock step,

like Repughs do and thats a good thing IMHO. Sen. Feingold is doing what he believes to be the correct thing, he believes that Bu$h broke the law by violating americans constitutional right by spying on them. And i support his right to do his job. And unlike President Clinton who was polling in the high sixty in his sixth year, Bu$h is in the low 30's, and appears to be going down.

So as more and more proof comes out about this present admin, i expect Sen Feingold my get more and more support for his Censure of Bu$h. I may be all wrong, but i like my odds.

[Faygo Kid]

27. Fight the power. Stand on principle. Count me as a "hot-footed activist."

Heard this argument incessantly since Eugene McCarthy in 1968. Over, and over, again. Maybe it's God Damn past time for the GOP to justify their horrid performance to date, instead of folks like you "helping" the Dems. Why do the Dems always have to justify themselves, and the GOP gets a pass from your type? Bring it. You don't pass the smell test. My friend. What is your real agenda? What is your address on K Street?

[mitchtv]

89. get out the Pink Tutus

the Wimpocrats wanna sell out again

[peacetalksforall]

28. This article refers to left wingers - see this

"....the chorus calling for Bush's censure or impeachment, which has now reached the front pages of prominent newspapers and magazines. This left-wing fantasy has been stoked ..."

I doubt that all the people talking about censure and impeachment would call themselves or be even recognize themselves as left-wingers.

To compare a consensual sex affair and a lie attempt to hold off Starr and the hundreds upon hundreds of people who worked the act against Clinton - with - the death, torture, maiming, destruction, lies, and theft it has taken and the suffering by thousands upon thousands - is way out of bounds as justifiable reasoning to not move forward.

The groundswell for either is grass roots. Even if an orgainzed entity did nothing, the movement has started. Columnists, editors, reporters, and most importantly - citizens.

[KoKo]

42. Well said...it was a typical Sabato attempt to worm his way in...thinking

he has some validity amongst Democrats. Sort of an attempt to do a "Bushie" by instilling FEAR FACTOR.

We Dems aren't afraid of Sabato and operatives from the Repug point of view who think they can tell us what to think. It's laughable that they think we are like their zombie robots who have a wire in their brains from Karl Rove and the Christian FAR right.

[PVK]

30. Do you represent "the base"?

If so, how?

[GeorgeGist]

31. Bush ain't no Clinton...

methinks the average American can see that. I'm counting on blowback.
Go Russ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jackpine Radical]

32. Voting to censure will Make Us Look Bad!!

We'll alienate the wingnut vote. We'll lose the support of the fascists for sure!

[Faygo Kid]

34. Thank you, my friend. Good to see another who smells a Rat.

A dirty rat, perhaps.

[Vincardog]

36. Oh MY GOD we can't do that! How will we ever get anything done unless

we pander to the Reich Wing NUTZ?

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :toast: :toast: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ProSense]

35. Your assumptions are wrong.

Clinton was impeached by the Repugs with the nearly 65% of the public against it. Public support is going against Bush on a lot of issues. Bush's impeachment track is more closely aligned with Nixon's. An investigation would expose Bush's violations, which are worse than Clinton's and much worse than Nixon's.


The Case for Impeachment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=658142


Calls for Bush's impeachment grow town by town
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=641621


Vermont Paper Embraces Impeachment Push
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2506027&mesg_id=2506027


State Democratic Party in Wisconsin Also Backs Impeachment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2483967&mesg_id=2483967


Brattleboro (VT) approves resolution seeking Bush's impeachment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2535905&mesg_id=2535905

[The Witch]

40. ...

:popcorn:

[AverageJoe]

41. Let's keep our powder dry

Wait for the right moment
Position ourselves strategically
Not alienate the independent voters

Blah, blah, blah.

This has been the principle Democratic strategy ever since * stole the White House. It's been a disaster.

I don't know the future, but I do know that no one is above the law. To once again allow * a pass on his continued crimes and malfeasance is unconscionable and wrong.

[espera17]

47. FISA court judges have said that

what bush did was legal, so if we are going to censure or impeach it should be done after investigation and all of those things will be easier if we gain seats in november. it will not happen if we lose seats because the republican base is motivated...

[FogerRox]

82. Ahem----you mean illegal

[espera17]

84. no

I heard in the news yesterday that former FISA judges have said that Bush's program WAS legal.

[FogerRox]

96. 5 former FIS A judges .. ... dont think it is and want hearings

including the one that resigned.
Posted here at DU....................

[radio4progressives]

99. give me a freaking break..

those old farts are desperate to have their creds enshrined on their Tomb Stones and need their Hush Money guaranteed.. plus they're just as guilty as the shrub for not be forthcoming with their responsibility to expose what's been going on in the name of "National Security" ..

They are COMPLICIT.

[riona]

104. amen

i'm tired of hearing "we don't know what the democrats stand for". well, we don't stand for our president making his own laws. if we stand by and say nothing, that means we accept his behavior as being lawful - may as well join the republican rubber stampers.

[KoKo]

43. Here since March 22, 06 and a Sabato post?

I guess we are becoming hugely "diversified." ....

[IChing]

44. "left-wing fantasy" is a revealing juxtaposition of bullshit labeling

[puerco-bellies]

46. BUSHIT!!!

Screw censure, impeach the bastard. If you want to coddle the right, perhaps that is the side you should stand on.

[radio4progressives]

48. Propaganda BS...

:nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity: :thumbsdown:

[Hissyspit]

49. Impeaching Clinton produced a backlash BECAUSE:

It was ridiculous and Americans didn't want to do it!!!

Americans WANT to impeach Bush.

Sheesh. That's kind of an important point to ignore.

[perdido21]

51. why do polls contradict that

then? i have not seen a single poll showing americans favor impeachment of Bush.

[Hissyspit]

53. I have.

Plus it depends on how you ask the question. If you seperate censure and impeachment or include them together.

[ProSense]

54. Here's one:

You'll find more information here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2543255&mesg_id=2543332

[perdido21]

55. thanks for the information

i personally haven't seen a poll either on the impeachment issue until now

[Pacifist Patriot]

50. Um, let me think about that...no.

[roseBudd]

52. We need Bush to keep Fing Up and bringing down the GOP

[smoogatz]

56. Sabato is a right wing tool. He's just mouthing Ken Mehlman's bullshit

talking points. Here's a clue for you, espara17: the louder and shriller the Repukes insist your strategy is guaranteed to motivate their base, the more you can be assured they're completely fucking terrified. Fightin' Russ Feingold is the only guy in the Senate with a fully-functioning pair--he speaks for me 100%. Sabato and his stupid opinions can go fuck themselves, as Our Beloved Vice Pretzeldent would say. Or, in the words of The Most Revered Associate Justice Scalia: Vaffunculo!

On edit: as for Bush's "base": I guess that's referring to the 34-percent-or-so who are delusional or stupid enough to still believe he's doing a fine job. If we can't beat even a 100% turnout of Bush's 34%, we might as well all check ourselves in to our friendly neighborhood KBR detention camp, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.

[radio4progressives]

63. "Vaffunculo! " hmm... Let me guess...

Very Good Job on wacking down the bullshit spin..

[Telly Savalas]

101. By running candidates to contest open seats in the House

we only motivate the GOP base. It will backfire!

[rucky]

57. "the left is on the verge of creating a similar situation to 1998"

you mean when the GOP won the house, then the presidency two years later, then a majority in the Senate 2-years after that?

[radio4progressives]

64. I think so!

[Douglas Carpenter]

85. yeah the historic revisionism around this place is just too much sometimes

:eyes:

[EC]

59. Every single Republican I know around here

is calling for **'s head too, so I don't know...

[struggle4progress]

61. Specter: If Bush Broke The Law With Warrantless Spying, Impeachment ..

.. Is A Remedy

<snip> STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, if the president did break the law or circumvent the law, what’s the remedy?

SPECTER: Well, the remedy could be a variety of things. A president — and I’m not suggesting remotely that there’s any basis, but you’re asking, really, theory, what’s the remedy? Impeachment is a remedy. After impeachment, you could have a criminal prosecution, but the principal remedy, George, under our society is to pay a political price. <snip>

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/15/specter-impeachment/

[IdaBriggs]

60. I think you are wrong; if the Democrats don't respect the law, I don't

want them EITHER.

[Jade Fox]

65. There is an awful lot of supposition in your post....

Bush is not Clinton, and this is not 1998. Censure and impeachment threats are being used to activate the Republican base, but it sure doesn't seem to be working.

We owe it to the WORLD to do what we can about getting Bushco out of power. This is not just about getting Democrats elected. At least not for us hot-footed, left-wing fantasy types in need of restraint from the self-appointed moderates. :eyes:

[bread_and_roses]

71. YES! We owe censure - and far more - to the world, to humanity

for what he has done, for the death and destruction, for the dead and maimed children. We owe the world more than censure, but it is at least a step.

[Clarkie1]

66. It's all about STRATEGIC THINKING.

The only way the censure/impeachment issue can hurt us if if we make it the #1 focus of our 06' campaign. If that happens, Americans will turn away from us because we will simply feed the Republican meme that Democrats are the party of no ideas of their own.

Talking about the righteousness of censure is fine, just don't let it drown out our plans for national security, health care, the environment, education, etc.

[guidod]

68. Feingold knew they couldn't censure the idiot,

he did it so they could discuss the NSA and wire tapping in the committee meeting, which they will tomorrow. It was a very wise move. Feingold never wanted a vote on the Senate floor for censure, he knew it would be voted down.

Also, in 1998 Clintons approval rating was around 61%, Bush is at around 36%, big difference.

[kentuck]

69. A lot of assumptions....

To assume that the average Republican is going to march to the polls to defend George W Bush seems to be more wishful thinking than anything else. As if they will be so angry that Feingold and the "leftists" are jumping on their "guy", they will ignore everything that George W Bush has done, including lying about the war and spying on average Americans. I don't think so...

[Generator]

73. Oh please the basic premise

core, nut of yours is: The Republican's base and non-base are still so enamored of Mr. War President, let's the cities drown, and no troops home in his presidency-that's not a civil war-that's progress! that the hint of the dastardly Dems (as if they have ever proved a threat yet-I'm still waiting) will harm their precious boy-man with CENSURE. Oh, I'm feeling faint. Please, the love is gone. Repeat after me-the love is gone. As Chris Matthews surely knows, without a terrorist attack-or another sham war SOON-Iran calling!-the Chimp love will no longer, repeat after me, no longer bring them to the polls. That ship has sailed. Those with a brain and a heart wonder to any God that might exist why it took so long.

[Doctor_J]

88. Well spaketh, Gen!

Succinct, complete. Bravo!

[mtnsnake]

75. "Democrats' 2006 mistake" my ass. Nice try, though, at trying to

talk us out of our ideas on impeachment. Good luck!!

Screw censure if you want. I could care less about that. The Dems are waiting until after the elections to go for the gravy and the full monty, IMPEACHMENT.

"The Democrats' 2006 mistake, if it continues, will be the chorus calling for Bush's censure or impeachment"

Who exactly is this "chorus" you refer to in that snip? By nature of the wording alone, you're implying that it's our Democratic spokespeople. Funny thing is, there is no chorus because our people are keeping pretty hushed up about it until they're ready to drop the bomb.

The only mistake Democrats will make is if they DON'T impeach the fucker.

[omega minimo]

76. DEARLY BELOVED DUERS WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FEEDING THIS?

:wtf:

[Capn Sunshine]

90. I WONDER ABOUT DU SOMETIMES

This is such astroturf I can scarcely get through it.

"Interesting" new influx of members this week, that's all I will say.

[omega minimo]

94. Well there's a profile too and its so damn obvious

:evilfrown:

[KoKo]

98. We have been cautioned time and time again to accept new viewpoints.

This could have been DLC stuff....:D just saying....

[IndianaGreen]

77. By your standard, Nixon would have remained President

Bush is far worse than Nixon ever was!

Democrats have no right to surrender our Constitution to Republican tyranny!

[leesa]

78. Right. Be quiet. Be a good little Dem or the Republicans won't like it.

DLC junk.

[Oversea Visitor]

83. Hee Haw

If you dont support get ass kick by base
Just like the repuke going to get ass kick
Whee they trying hard to drag dem into same bed
:rofl:

[rman]

86. W is a criminal, and you say impeachment is ridiculous?

You sound like a RW-er.

[Zhade]

92. So everyone who supports holding b*s* accountable for breaking the law...

...is a "left-winger" in your mind?

Or, more accurately, Rush Limbaugh's mind, apparently?

Silly.

[perdido21]

93. ignoring all other issues to pursue impeachment/censure is bad

as long as we make sure voters dont think the only thing the Democratic party is about is censure/impeachment and we give them a clear plan for what we will do in power, impeachment calls should continue

[bemildred]

95. Voting for the Iraq war and the Patriot(sic) act was rash.

Censuring and impeaching that son of a bitch is prudent and necessary.

[Aaaargh]

100. Dem's security plan calls for "SIGNIFICANT TRANSITION" in Iraq in '06!

...and it's because of weaseling Kerryesque rhetoric like this that Dem gains in the mid-term elections will be minimal.

The argument that the Repig base will be energized by Democrats calling for censure is itself a rhetorical pitch which is unlikely to materialize in the real world. The Repig base is demoralized by Bush's failures, but are devoted voters and will turn out in their usual numbers.

Impeachment isn't a real prospect anyway, with Cheney, Hastert and Rice in the line of succession after Bush, but censure MIGHT have impressed voters with the fact that Democrats adhere to traditional American principles -- IF the truth about the measure, and the issues behind it, could be shouted over the corporate-whore talking heads of the media. We have managed to do that at times, you know.

If you're betting money on the '06 outcome, yes, bet on the Repigs maintaining control of Congress, because the Democrats are blowing it, right now. The real question may be: who will replace Pelosi and Reid in '07?

[BeachBuckeye]

103. Probably the most ridiculous post I have read today

Plays right into the hands of the Republican spin machine that would have us all believe that any comments against the President is detrimental to Democratic efforts to take the Congress and the WhiteHouse. Absolutely ridiculous.

[ima_sinnic]

105. oooohh--I'm so scared of the repuke "base" getting "riled up"

--right, kind of the way they were riled up outside that nursing home in Florida over a human body that was rigged up to keep pumping blood after its occupant had departed --
--like the martyrs dragging the 10-ton block of granite like Sisyphus, up and down hill from one courthouse to another
--like the knuckle-draggers who yap about "good news from Iraq" and then get pissed off over the only good news to come out there in a long time, the safe release of a kidnap victim

--NEED I GO ON? it would be fun, but I have other things to do today--

like I said--the widdle pukies are going to have a backlash? may it splatter their maggot guts into the extinction they don't believe in.