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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:07 PM
Original message
Subject: I am so sick of him

http://www.buzzflash.com/mailbag/06/03/mai06090.html


-snip-

Subject: I am so sick of him

I am so sick of him. So utterly, completely, sick of him. Mentally, psychologically, spiritually and yes, physically, sick of him. So sick of him that every morning when my homepage opens up to BuzzFlash and the first thing I see is those beady, evil eyes, I have to quickly scroll down the page so I don't have to look at him. So sick of him that the sound of that petulant, whiny, defensive, ignorant voice creates a visceral, immediate reaction and I have to change the radio station. So utterly disgusted by him that three years ago I gave away my television in order to cut down on the number of intrusions per day by news media talking about him him him him him.

I am sick to death of the lies. A constant, daily barrage of lies that never ceases to amaze me with its blatant, arrogant confidence that yes, here is a lie, folks, and I just dare you to call me on it. And guess what? NO ONE dares. Not one single Democrat, Progressive, or conservative politician has dared to stand up and say, "You are a liar. A murderous liar. And we will not stand for your lies another minute." Only Cindy Sheehan has dared to call him a liar and ask for the truth. For which she has been vilified, and has, of course, received no answer.

The murder, the slaughter, the explosions, the maiming, the blood enrage me, the absolute horror of a so-called war brought about by the mere whim of this empty shell of a human being of him. How sick, how tired, how hopelessly futile is my inability to do anything to stop this nightmare. How sick I am of feeling this rage. I am so sick of him!

I am psychologically affected by my worry about the future that awaits my child. I am tired of waking up in the middle of the night after dreams of Armageddon brought about by a cackling sociopath who prays for the 'honor' of bringing about the End Times that he believes is his destiny.

I am shocked by my rage. I am a peaceful person. I am a lover. A mother. A sister. A good friend. I volunteer. I raise money for those less fortunate. But I hate him. Yes I do. I hate his guts and everything he says and does. I have never hated anyone in my life. But I do hate him. And for those who say they don't hate the man but hate his actions, I say, I hate the man and I hate his actions, because they are one and the same. You are what you do. And he is Hitler reincarnated. He is a mass murderer. He is an empty shell, void of humanity. And he deserves to be hated, and I do hate him. And I do not have a problem with that.

I feel hopeless and powerless. Each day I talk myself into working so hard to make my living, and most of all, working so hard to show my child that Life is Beautiful and we should be grateful, because we do have so much. We are healthy, we have a nice place to live and good food to eat and people who love us. And we have each other.

But when I see God's beautiful planet being destroyed by this stupid, stupid man-boy, this swaggering bully without one ounce of conscience or Love of Life, I am so afraid for the future and for my child. And I am so tired of that fear.

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Well, fear is here. Brought to you by him, and him alone. His cult of personality has set the entire world against us, and we have good reason to fear.

I am so sick of him.

A BuzzFlash Reader
-snip-
-----------------------------------------------------

yes
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is tragic that our country has a president that evokes these feelings.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
86. Not only the country, but the world.
And possibly an undiscovered planet or two.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. yep, me too.
:puke: :grr: :cry: :-(
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. I could have written that and not have changed a single word.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Me, too.
I can't write what you did, though, because I literally do not have the energy to go through all those feelings. I have a day to get through, and can't use up all my energy by noon.

I thank you, though, for writing it, and I agree with you in every respect.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. I started to feel that way back in 1999 when I heard he was going to run.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Someone read my mind. n/t
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. i was sick of him when he was first running for governor of texas.
:puke:
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muse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
94. me, too
Texan here.

Long, long illness here.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. wow, exactly word for word how I feel
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 01:03 PM by bunny planet
thanks for posting this....
I somehow feel better just knowing people feel the same way, not much better, but anything helps at this point.
I too am worried sick about my kids and what Bushworld has in store for them.
:scared: :cry: :banghead:
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, I don't understand.
I have been through elections since Eisenhower--lived through JFK's horrific death, LBJ (who I did not care for), Nixon and that debacle, Ford, Carter, Reagan Bush I, Clinton and now this....

I can easily say I don't like many Bush II decisions--several of them I think are particularly stupid, he does not know how to pick competent subordinates, he's misjudged people in the middle east etc. However, EVERY president leaves in 4-8 years and another one comes along. I don't understand why Bush is SO much larger to most of you than every other president has been.

Is it an age thing? Are so many of you so much younger than I am? The nuclear threat has existed with ALL the presidents I named (and perhaps we were even closer to it in the early 1960's). We've been at war before--and even a more unpopular one--and during Democratic presidents' terms (with all the My Lais and claims of torture) that are so awful now, too. The world as a whole didn't like us much better then. The Cold War was on, too..............

What is it now? Why isn't Bush just another guy we sigh and hope for the next election with?
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chrisbur Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The short answer.
Many of us think he is complicit in 911 and that the last three elections have been corrupt. Yes I know, hard to believe.
I'd hate him without those two suspicions though. In the 90's I thought things were going relatively well. George W. was like a baseball bat to my face.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. you have a lot of catching up to do

do you know PNAC?
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I'm not arguing over facts.............
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 01:35 PM by platimum
I DON'T need to 'catch up' on them all--I've been reading here a good long time, and I've been involved in politics forever. I'm not talking about whether or not those things are true. Some of them I believe, some I don't--but all of you say you hated him BEFORE you knew those things you dislike so much, so there's more to it than that.

As I look at the list of things I don't like about Bush, I think of ALL the presidents in my life. I can easily get up a list of likes and dislikes on every single one no matter HOW I personally voted!

I'm talking FEELINGS--why are so many of you hating Bush so much it's virtually ruining your life, your peace of mind, your kindness toward strangers, or anyone you think veers even slightly toward the right? Most of you are not unkind people--not at all! But I see so much unkindness here! I'd NEVER let a president do that to me!
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. 2000 was a coup d'etat - that's hardly usual politics!


are you playing us?
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. No--LOL!
You sound like a guy who wants to argue facts--I'm a woman and I'm more interested in the DEPTH of negative feelings here.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
107. I'm a woman who will argue facts or psuedo facts and the depth of

my negative feelings are beyond deep.

I'd think you'd be more interested in getting the bushmilhousegang into prison then the depth of negative feelings for smirk at DU


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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. I can only speak for myself
but what I hate most of all is what he is leaving to future generations.

I have a 4 year old granddaughter.

Is it fair that she will have to pay for his out-of-control spending?

Isn't she due clean air?

Is it fair that the rest of the world hates her (and the rest of us) just because this guy is so insecure about his manhood?

The world is a far less safe place than when I grew up. I have the feeling that the safety I have known is a thing of the past. The U.S. is less safe daily. She had nothing to do with that.




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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Perhaps
But those things haven't happened yet--and if we can get someone into office that does something about them in the direction we want, those things you list won't happen. You're hating Bush and feeling your grandaughter is losing something that he hasn't done--and something there's a good chance she won't lose! THAT'S what I don't understand!
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I think these things have happened
We are now 9-trillion in debt.
Sveral scientists feel we are beyond the point-of-no return in environmental issues.
The hate around the world is very real - I felt it in Quebec this past October.
Real jobs are leaving our borders.

Sure there may be a president who comes along and begins to turn things around. But that will come at big sacrifices on the part of the decimated middle-class.

And who is reaping the profits?
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Okay
And what part of that 9 trillion do you pay on everyday? How much from your paycheck is going toward it--and how is that preventing you from buying something YOU need for yourself today?

That's a rational answer.

What part of your environment is different? How is that affecting your day right now?

The hate in Canada can come from many perceived causes--and perhaps irrational, or rational, thoughts of THEIRS. Bad feelings can be intentionally whipped up that have no basis--don't assume.

Has YOUR job left the borders, why, how do you know that was the reason, have you been prevented from getting another like job, and how has your standard of living gone down as a result?

Cognitive, rational thinking makes the difference between over-hyped speculation and actual cause-and-effect.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. Ok platimum
Has YOUR job left the borders, why, how do you know that was the reason,
Yes my job went to India to be done poorly but cheaply by folks in Bhopal.

have you been prevented from getting another like job,
Yes There are no more IT jobs to be had in the USA. The ones that are available go to HIb low wage labor to benefit the Corporations,


and how has your standard of living gone down as a result?

Yes I have not had an income for 4 years. I went bankrupt and my standard of living has been dramatically damaged.

Add that to the fact that the SS monitor my phone mail and they regularly search my computer without a warrant or notice and Welcome to the New World Order.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
57. well
<And what part of that 9 trillion do you pay on everyday?>

A good deal. Interest on that is the second largest item in the budget - behind defense. Money that could be going to correct the environment, fix schools, etc is being sent to interest on the debt - and that interest is growing.

<What part of your environment is different? How is that affecting your day right now?>

I live on the east coast of Florida. Two years ago we went (directly) through 3 hurricanes and a 4th that wrapped back and hit us as a tropical storm. My insurance has doubled. The next season is just weeks away and predictions see it as bad as last year, if not worse. This is a direct result of the environmental issues.

<The hate in Canada can come from many perceived causes--and perhaps irrational, or rational, thoughts of THEIRS.>

I had no problem discussing cross-border politics with them as I understand their feeling toward bush. I had an interesting conversation with an outfitter who is now more afraid of his job than in the past because the bears are hungry - making his job much more risky. He places fault at bush and our greedy environmental policies. He (junior) simply refuses to see the harm he is creating around the world.

<Has YOUR job left the borders, why, how do you know that was the reason, have you been prevented from getting another like job, and how has your standard of living gone down as a result?>

No - but I work for a company that has off-shored significantly. There has been a definite impact on my job because of this.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Now THOSE are things we can discuss.
The deficit IS a problem--and it's one of my issues too. Even tho I may, at this point, have not had to pay on it, it can be proven--with actual numbers--that it has increased under Bush's watch.

Florida has hurricanes, and it is your choice to live there. The constitution does not guarantee relief from all disasters. (And I live next to Rainier--and I SURE don't expect rescue if it goes off.)

Hungry bears are Bush's fault???
Canadian hate is Bush's fault???

And off-shoring has hurt your job how?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
73. of course you are right
I would not ask that my government guarantee relief from natural disasters. I would ask, however, that they not contribute toward making them worse. Bush's environmental policies are doing exactly that, are they not? (I assume you support the thought that global warming is real and causing real significant problems)

Hungry Bears? - of course not. However, again I do blame him for not supporting sound environmental policies. The U.S. is the largest contributor of greenhouse emissions. So what is junior's policy - "not our fault". Does not support Kyoto. Supports rebates for gas guzzlers. Backs off clean air initiatives to allow greedy corporations more money. Do we not have an obligation to do something to clean up this mess? Not according to junior. He is so deep into the pockets of these corporations that he cannot see the impact he is having. Did you see this hatred during the Clinton reign? How about the years of George I?. Reagan? Nope.

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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Kyoto
I don't have a problem thinking we need to do more about global climate--I just didn't like the Kyoto provisions. It's not going to do US any good to limit ourselves HERE when India and China--with one-fifth the world's pop.--is allowed unlimited coal burning.

And no, I don't understand why diff. energy sources aren't being invented here, and why gas-eaters get rebates. USA is a huge country and we're going to need to travel long distances, but it shouldn't be in some damn thing that gets 8 miles per gallon!
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
108. you are giving us 'Rove Speak' - you are changing the subj. & twisting


logic
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chrisbur Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
82. It's the stupidity.
From the moment I saw his chimp like face I knew that when that mouth opened something incredibly regressive and stupid would gush forth.
I'm not even arguing policy here. He speaks to the lowest common denominator. He drags us doooooowwnn.....
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
96. How do you NOT hate...
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 11:23 PM by AuntiBush
a so-called leader that has done everything in his power to:

take us into a war all based on lies
torture in our names
created the worse debt then all previous Presidents combined
holding social security town meetings at the expense of taxpayers but not allowing a democrat or anyone not in support of "his" views
treats many Congressional congressmen and women like they have no freedom to speak
wanting to take away our social security we worked a long time paying into
literally destroying medicare which affects the disabled, the elderly and many returning vets
preparing us for a possible nuclear world war III - this isn't the will of any people I know
killing children, women and innocent Iraqi people whom had nothing to do with 9/11 or Bin Ladin - they didn't ask us to come on in and blow them and their country to kingdom come
DIVIDING us, not UNITING us - like no leader has ever done
OUTSOURCING our jobs
Giving everything to the least of us, the most wealthiest while taking away from the majority of us 98-99% that he reportedly represents
laughing on film at the "haves" and the "have nots"
selling all of our national forests
spying on US! Quakers, come on...
stealing our treasury countless times

isn't it obvious he does not give a damn about any of us?

Checkout this DU post. It says it all: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And on and on... so why don't you explain to me, since you're studying emotions here why we should like this?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. This is the first pResident illegally appointed by the SCOTUS.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 01:26 PM by Vincardog
This is the first pResident illegally reSelected by a corrupt electronic voting cabal.
This is the first pResident to assert his unique position ABOVE THE LAW.
This is the first pResident to lie us into an illegal war of aggression.
This is the first pResident to actively work for "The End of Times"
GEt it? We can wait this fool out we have to get active and resist this evil.

NOW

Oh platimum Welcome to DU enjoy your stay.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You hated him before those things happened.
You know you did.

And as for your snotty comment of 'enjoy your stay'--all of you, us, we--need to realize there are thousands of Democrats like me who really, really want and need an answer to this issue--that we WANT to stay a Democrat, but we need to understand this deep down. And, sure, you can 'disappear' me from the board if you're not strong enough to have me ask you this very honest question, but that won't 'disappear' me from America. And there WILL come a day when you'll hope that we're all still voting Democratic. It might be more worth it to us both if we just talk it over some.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Are you clairvoyant, Ignorant or Stupid?
You propose to tell me how I feel, claim not to know recent history and ask foolish questions.

Ignorance can be cured, stupid is forever.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Because he epitomizes the last 30 years -- and we're tired of it
I think for some of us who have been through numerous former presidents, the frustration transcends Bush.

Bush would have seemed much more innocuous 30 years ago. But unfortunately, he epitomizes the values and the policies that have basically put America into the shitter over the last 30 years. And there sometimes seems to be no alternatives in sight, after he leaves.

And unfortunately, the Democrats no longer offer much relief. If Hillary becomes President in 08, for example, we'll still have the same basic set of Corporate Values and complacency that has gotten us into this mess. It'll just6 have a slightly kinder and gentler facade in terms of some isues.

Say what you will about LBJ, but despite the carnage he caused with the Vietnam War, he at least was a libeal domestically. He tried to deal with issues like poverty in a pro-active way.



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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Yes--he did that.
I DID like many of the things he tried to do, and DID do. I just was so young--and probably scared of him--he really wielded so much power, coerced a lot of people--and I think he did a lot of things we DON'T know about, and that always made me very nervous.
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abbiehoff Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Because he justifies every illegal thing he does by claiming
that he's a "war president", and that war presidents always have the authority to suspend civil rights in order to run the war. The problem here is that he came to office itching for a war and didn't take long to start an illegal and immoral war thus giving him the right, perhaps even the obligation, to suspend our civil rights in pursuit of his own ends.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I can understand that fear...
If you had to say which civil rights are gone from your life right NOW, TODAY--and how that's affecting your life, which ones would you list? Keep it simple--no 'if I was arrested, then I wouldn't have'. (Unless you've been arrested today!) No fair to say you've been wiretapped unless you know for a fact you've been wiretapped NOW and to whom you were speaking....
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Because he's evil. He's doing great harm, intentionally.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. You sound very young.
Politics is more complicated than that--and he's NOT the entire American government.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. He is so much larger because the damage he's done is so much greater
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 02:04 PM by brazenlyliberal
It's not an age thing. I remember most of that, though I was too young in the Eisenhower years to be very aware of politics.

When the 2000 election was over, I said the same thing you're saying. How much damage can he do in 4 years? He'll be gone and we'll get over it. I was wrong and so are you.

He has squandered the good will of the rest of the world - and the animosity is so great, it's not likely it will just evaporate because he leaves office. It's taken on a life of its own at this point.

He has promoted policies that make saving the planet a lot dicier proposition than it was. We may be at or even past several tipping points. By the time he's turned out, one hesitates to think how many ecological critical mass limits will have been reached.

He has chiseled away at our civil liberties to a degree no former President would have dared. He has institutionalized fear to a degree the Cold War administrations didn't even imagine and used it to make any demand for those liberties tantamount to treason.

He has killed a few thousand Americans and untold thousands of Iraqis in a trumped up war, built on lies.

He has defended torture, even as he pretended to abhor it.

He has made vile character assassination the first resort in political campaigns.

The list goes on. And on. He is so much larger because the damage he has done and continues to do is so much greater.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I can't get anyone here to answer....
'I've lost the civil right to bear arms' (for instance).

'Because of that, today, someone from overseas attacked me and I was unable to defend my family' (for instance).

Simple cause and effect--what rights has everyone here lost TODAY? How has that affected your life RIGHT NOW?

My life is NO different than it was 6 years ago (except if I were to fly--for obvious reasons)


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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Maybe it's this
You ask:

"Simple cause and effect--what rights has everyone here lost TODAY? How has that affected your life RIGHT NOW?"

Maybe you've stumbled upon a group of people who care about more than their own personal lives "TODAY" and see further than "right now." In fact, I'd say that's one of the things that separates us from that infantile nightmare in the Oval Office.

But browse around a bit. Look for posts by people who were forbidden entrance to public gatherings or who were asked to leave because they had a T-shirt that indicated something less than total adoration for the enfant terrible.

And while you're at it, you might find posts by people who are out of work because of the brat's economic policies. Or people who lost someone they love in that bogus war. Or people who just plain care about the losses others have sustained.

And remember this: When one person's rights are successfully denied, all of our rights are endangered. I don't need Bush's NSA spying on my own particular phone calls to realize the threat posed by that illegal activity.

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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. YOU are the people I'm speaking to.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 02:31 PM by platimum
YOU are the people I'm developing a relationship with and wanting to know how YOU are hurt.

It's very difficult for me to believe harm has been done when the actual people I speak to cannot name it, and name the day it happened, and how their lives are less because of it.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. You're going about it the wrong way
"YOU are the people I'm developing a relationship with"

You have a strange idea of how one develops relationships. Your posts in this thread are confrontational, accusatory, bafflingly condescending, and frankly contain more than a little psychobabbly bullshit. I can't speak for others, but I generally don't find relationships actually do develop with someone who introduces herself that way.

Perhaps someday in some other thread when you have either made a convincing case that you have some standing to be so condescending or have given it up as a conversational device.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I'm simply asking some questions.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 02:52 PM by platimum
And I AM a psychologist.

And questions are not meant to be condescending--most people LIKE a chance to talk about themselves and give examples of why they believe what they believe.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Oh, honey, if you're a psychologist
the baker is hungry, the shoemaker is barefoot, the singer is tone deaf, insert your own metaphor here.

Feed thyself, get a pair of strappy sandals, learn a new song, interact with others in a healthy way.

Here, I'll help you: Yes, people often do like to talk about themselves. But they generally prefer that it not be a command performance, complete with snide comments and claims to be able to read their minds. But, as a psychologist, you should already know that
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
109. LOL
nt
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. And by the way....
I'm perfectly willing to be convinced to think something other than I do--but we have to speak to one another, and answer each other's questions, for that to happen. It won't happen through sheer mental telepathy...
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Maybe
we are students of history and we have seen this trend before and wish to avoid it. We saw this type of movement in almost every fascist government in the 20th century. The move towards corporatism, laws that increase the power of the government and lessent the civil liberties of it's people, militarism and rabid nationalism, concentration of power by one party and the hamstringing of the democrats, attacks against homosexuals, immigrants and anyone who speaks out against the powers that be, disdain for human rights...Actually here is something that will show you what I am talking about.
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Again...
YOU are the people I'm developing a relationship with and wanting to know how YOU are hurt.

It's very difficult for me to believe harm has been done when the actual people I speak to cannot name it, and name the day it happened, and how their lives are less because of it.

If a kid came in from a playground said he'd been clobbered--but couldn't tell me how, with what, by whom, and show me a bruise, HOW could I believe he'd really run into someone who had hurt him?
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
53. We had a coup in 2000,
so he in effect began with an air of illegitimacy, which was briefly overcome after 9/11 when we became more nationalistic and the American People felt the need to rally to the office of the Presidency.

The first people to lose their rights were the people of Florida, mostly African Americans when they were unjustly purged as felons from the voting rolls in the run up to the coup. The entire state lost the right to have it's votes counted and intent known when the MSM and the felonious five decided this was rocket science and not worth the bother.

Apparently the nation lost the right to the truth in the run up to the war in Iraq when Bush and his advisers decided to cherry pick the intelligence, and create their own to mislead the American People and the Congress as to the threat posed by Saddam, when all a long Bush knew he was going to war in spite of the B.S. about giving diplomacy a chance.

Regarding Bush putting him self above the law. You may not have noticed or care whether you have been wiretapped with out a warrant by a judge as the law and Constitution requires, however for the people (and there are plenty of them) that do not trust or like Bush, this is a major concern.

Your children and your grandchildren are losing their right to live on a planet fit to live, thanks to Bush's denial of the threat posed by global warming, and suppression of science that supports it due to his being embedded with the oil/coal/timber industries. They are also losing their right to an economically viable nation as Bush is blowing the budget like a drunken teenager with his parent's credit cards.

Losing your rights is not like a on/off light switch, so much as a dimmer, and it's getting darker. The Holocaust did not start with the concentration camps, it started when a few "undesirable" segments of German society were marginalized, and Hitler decided he was above the law.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Any of it happen to you?
I'd be interested to know...
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. It happened to me when it happened to all the other Americans,
I just listed. The coup of 2000 was an affront to all Americans, even Republicans, they are just too clueless to know it. Global warming and the national debt is happening to all humans, including me. The lies told to the American People by Bush and the neocons whether it be regarding the war with Iraq or global warming were told to me as well. I am not floating around here on an island, I am part of the American People.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. I do not feel it happened to me.
So your statement would not be true for 'all of us'--and I'm NOT a Pubby, nor 'clueless'.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #54
69. Why don't you ask the Iraqi people..
if their lives are any different now that George W. Bush is president of the US. :mad:

I suspect they might give you an earful.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. You
Are you black, live in Florida, were you unfairly purged from voter rolls, were you wiretapped, have your kids and grandkids had to live in a world suffering from the effects of global warming that happened 2000-2008, and what trees have you not been able to sit under, build a house from, or enjoy the oxygen they've put out?
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. No, I am white and live in Nashville,
but when it happened to black Americans in Florida, it happened to me.

Many good Germans in the 30's no doubt felt it was only happening to the Jews,Gypsies,Poles and homosexuals, and I am confident they enjoyed peace until they went to war.

Let me put to you this away, When Al Quaeda attacked on 9/11 did they just attack the unfortunate victims of the day, or did they attack you?
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. There has been so much speculation about this etc.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 04:21 PM by platimum
I have yet to hear from ONE black person living in FL that was unfairly purged and thus did not get to vote. And that that 'purging' was all Bush's fault. Everytime I've voted, I've had PLENTY of notice about problems--and when I've moved a lot from state to state, I called and made sure of things a couple of times. Maybe those black people need to check more...)

(I SAW people fall from the WTC--I KNOW it happened. I feel fairly confident thinking Bin Laden did it/Al Qaeda did it because they confessed--seen evidence, and the 19 hijackers.)
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. I saw it happen as well on the news,
I some of them crying in the street, because for the first time in their lives, they were not allowed to vote. I have read the reports about the purging of "felons", thousands of which were not felons, the vast majority of which were projected democratic voters. I am just barely scraping the tip of the iceberg here, (I KNOW this happened just as surely as 9/11) happened.



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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. I'd like to see more info on it.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 04:39 PM by platimum
Truly not being allowed to vote WOULD bother me if people--ANY people did not have that right. I'd like to hear more direct testimonies--anybody write a book, column?

In Washington, in our last election, we had the opposite problem--and THAT needs to be addressed, too. (Gov.)
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m_welby Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
61. actually, i don't understand
why you wouldn't hate him, but i'll try to answer.

Besides the fact that he (and those he represenmts) have come closer to dismantling everything progressives have fought for since FDR, which affects me by violating my beliefs and principles

My children's public education is now worse than it was when he entered into office specifically because of no child left behind and i have to pay more for it in local taxes.

My childrens college education (about to start in the fall) will cost more and is more of a burden because of his cuts to grants and loans.

My career has gone from a promising one to a dead end one in the span of 5 years.

Shall I go on?

He broke his promise to unite this country and govern with integrity.

My nephew has spent the last two years serving repeated tours in iraq while his mother is being treatred for (and is suffering and dying from cancer).

Had enough yet?

You ask for personal reasons for hatred, there's just a few off the top of my head.



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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. Yours
If your taxes have gone up--and Bush is the sole reason--than I agree. (However, mine went up terribly in CA in the late 1990's.)

College costs have gone up every year I've been alive--is it worse now? Is it all Bush's fault? I DON'T believe in cutting grants etc. and I DO have issues with this and Bush.

We are not guaranteed a job.
Your people joined a volunteer military.

(I have to go soon, so this was quick!)
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m_welby Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #67
90. I thought your response would be something like that


You should ask the freepers why they hate clinton if you want incoherent.

How about these,

almost 2400 dead young men and women in a war based on lies and thousands more maimed for life - blood on my hands (on every americans hands) that I do not condone

Thousands of dead innoccent iraqis in said war and the aftermath - all done in my name and the name of all americans

thousands more dead and dying in africa from aids because of politically motivated and shortsighted policies on aids prevention and healthcare - more blood on my hands

hundreds more dead due to arrogance, incompetance, or just sheer indifference in the aftermath of katrina - yet more blood on my hands


how many innocent deaths does it take to justify hatred of this lying elitist?

perhaps you don't feel this is personal enough, but then any senseless death in our name is personal to a progressive. Oh but you know that because you are one right?

It has to be something that impacts me personally to justify that hatred? That is a philosophy of someone who puts themselves ahead of their fellow man, that is not a progressive/democratic position. but you know that because you are one right?





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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
66. I am a political activist...
I have had the FBI playing games with me because of what I have been doing for four+ years. Everytime I send an email I have no idea whether or not someone other than the recipient is reading it. When I place a call I have no idea if I am being listened to. When I work online I have no idea if someone is tracking me. I have come to live with the idea that I have been spied on and am building a healthy FBI file. In fact, my home message says the folowing:

"Hello, this is HHNF, please leave your name and number. And if this is the NSA listening in, George Bush can kiss my ass."

My only crime has been being criticial of an administration and policy that is killing a country I love very much.

My life is VERY different now.

But guess what? I don't despise them for making MY life different. I despise them for making the lives of millions of innocent Iraqis different. For that, they should all of them rot in hell.

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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. And your free to feel that way.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 04:28 PM by platimum
It's just not concrete harm, and you haven't proven who might have done it. (Which is fine, too--but I believe harm has been done when I have EVIDENCE of it. When we DO talk about concrete things here, I DO talk about the things Bush/this admin. has done that I have a problem with.)

Actually, this has been a very good conversation--I've clarified several things in my mind. About the cuts to college grants--what specific law was that--and was there any compensating law signed? Anyone know? People ALWAYS should have help with educating themselves.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. So the FBI showing up at my front door...
and calling me at my office were just my imagination? Uh huh.

Yup. I smell you just fine. :eyes:
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. No--you had not mentioned actual visits or calls...
...that you know are them.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
88. Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
The Associated Press
September 5, 2002

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

Copyright (c) 2002, The Associated Press

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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. The issues are endless
He is the embodiment of EVERYTHING I dislike.
It's not just the politics, he gets that all wrong, obviously, you are here, you are Democrat, obviously you get that. But the stakes seem awfully high right now, as one poster mentioned, things that have been going on for many years seem to be catching up with us, and he doesn't care.
On a more general level, there is the man as a person, and the fact that he represents me to the world, and little school children are supposed to look up to him, and I have to walk around knowing that my fellow citizens think he is something to be admired. What are they learning? From what I can see of the man he is abhorrent. I find nothing redeeming about his complete and utter disregard for anyones opinion but his own, his inability to admit a mistake, his obvious disrespect for academia and lack of curiosity. He can't put a sentence together, but he preaches to us like we're 2. It makes me gag. To be fair, I saw much of the same reaction among Republicans during the Clinton administration. They were rabid, and it was personal.

It makes me sad though, that you think this is all the Democrats are about. Yeah folks on this board, and off, love to hate Bush. But it's not our platform. I am going through my convention cycle here in MN right now. We have lots to do, lots to discuss, and we're doing it. PLEASE don't perpetuate the myth that this is all we are about.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I'm looking for ONE example from ONE of you!
And I've boiled it down to two simple, simple questions that STILL have not been adequately answered!
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Hmmmm
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 02:44 PM by indigo32
I'm going to try and say this nicely.

This isn't all about me. It really isn't. It's about my best friend, who is poor and raising a child on her own. It's about other friends who are raising their twin 5 year old grandchildren while their daughter is narrowly missing being blown to smithereens by roadside bombs. And frankly it's about the Iraqis suffering, in and out of our interment centers. It's about the air we all breath and the water we drink, while he throws away the Kyoto treaty and lets the energy companies write our energy policy. Yes I can be very angry about all this. Really, honestly, am I supposed to just be thankful for the tax cut and go on my merry way? I refuse to confine the arguement to your criteria.



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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Politics can always be made MORE complicated.
I'm asking for a very, very simple answer.

The people poor and raising a child on their own--I feel for, I'm a woman--and I made SURE I was not poor and raising a child on my own. SOME of that involved your friend's own choices.

Likewise ANYBODY fighting for us in Iraq--we have an all-volunteer military. President Bush has NOT done these things to people outside their own wishes--and you're old enough to know that.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. OK
so I hope you've never made, and never will make a poor decision in your life. I hope you never risk anything and lose. Or simply get seriously sick. Why do people persist with the delusion that if they just do everything right everything will be great? Honestly, it doesn't always work out that way. I'm getting away from Bush a little bit here, but simply responding to your post. Though, he is a standard bearer for alot of crappy policy out there.

BTW there is nothing SIMPLE about these issues, so what you are looking for here you probably won't find.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. If you can't answer the simple stuff...
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 03:10 PM by platimum
...then the hard stuff won't have an answer either.

(And one of the problems I have with the current--and last SEVERAL--admin. IS health care and the price of meds. And, right now, I'm NOT particularly healthy).

However, Bush, Clinton, Reagan etc. are NOT necessarily responsible for causing my problems--nor fixing them.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. But you seem to think that unless
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 03:27 PM by indigo32
he personally fired me or threw me in jail or something for my political activities, I have no right to be angry. Beyond the fact that I'm capable of recognizing a slippery slope when I see one, AND a President should be providing LEADERSHIP on say... healthcare issues (not letting drug companies provide that leadership)... what gives you the right to tell me on what basis I should be angry or sad or satisfied? I tried to lay it out for you in my first post, and those after. You claimed to want to learn about the reasons for my anger, but you don't seem to want to listen.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I'm trying to...
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 03:40 PM by platimum
Let me explain--I do cognitive-behavioral therapy. It involves dealing with concrete things in front of you--not entertaining irrational thoughts that have little basis in reality (for instance, it's one thing to be shy because you think, when you walk into a party everyone is talking about you, but I ask my clients for proof of this, their evidence for thinking this. Unless they can tell me what they've overheard, or been told, or had something hollered at them, have they seen someone point, heads all turn and whisper, people staring at them, does it happen every time, etc.--some evidence for their assumption--we gradually see that their shyness is because of an irrational thought--and NOT reality; people really are NOT all talking about them when they enter a room.)

When I come on DU etc. I read very little basis for hating Bush--no one seems to be able to describe ACTUAL harm done--it's all speculation and fears for the future and suppositions. Now, of course you have a right to hate him from simple personal dislike, but I see very little PROVABLE things he has done to you.

I try to be fair and ask for an explanation and you're one of the few that will even discuss it.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. But do you really maintain
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 03:51 PM by indigo32
that Iraq (which was an incredibly bad decision on SO many levels) and the devastating budgets he's signed into law (for example) aren't things he's responsible for? He's the President, he can take some damn responsibility. And if you don't maintain that, why is it that it has to touch me personally for me to care? Isn't seeing harm done to people around me enough? If my examples aren't good enough I'll give you more. This is not all speculation and fears about the future. There are people being hurt NOW. And your darn right I dislike him for simple personal reasons as well.

I really think that you should know that this is a place where people feel free to vent, ALONG with discuss and organize, and I would caution against making too many assumptions about how our lives are being affected by our feelings about the current administration. I would also as a friendly tip let you know that this is an awfully big board, and your not likely to succeed in giving us all therapy.
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Questions aren't therapy...
There are nearly 90 THOUSAND members here--can you understand why someone happening along might really question the rationales here when NOT ONE person can talk about a simple, identifiable, concrete harm they are suffering from that is all Bush's fault?
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. several people
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 04:17 PM by indigo32
including myself have listed concrete harms, if not to themself, to those around them. Why do you say NOT ONE person? Did he or didn't he sign this years budget? Oh wait, you simply write those things off to personal responsibility (damn my friend for getting pregnant, damn her, but wait... her son didn't get pregnant, and he's hurt too). Oops.

I think this comes down to assumptions... if you probed more deeply, you'd find that we do realize Bush didn't do all this alone. His administration has, however, certainly laid out a very clear and wrong headed course (the whole war on terror is only one example)...which can't be pawned off on Congress (which you will probably try to do with the budget).


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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. No
Actually the budget and spending bothers me a lot--even tho that bill hasn't exactly come due yet. It's not all congresses fault--Bush admin. etc. HAS been irresponsible. I have NO idea how to lessen such a huge debt.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #58
97. I'm not gonna go into details with you-BUT FYI-
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 02:15 AM by TheGoldenRule
* and his b.s. policies and cozying up with the corporates whores has hurt me and my family PERSONALLY. That's ALL you need to know because I'm not going into my personal business on this website. Just know this: I can't stand * one iota in the first place BECAUSE of how he deliberately hurt my family and others just like us. :grr:

I also must say that perhaps you are on the wrong website if you don't get that a sociopath such as * has hurt millions of people in millions of different ways. Frankly, I really don't think anyone has to prove the what, when, why or how to YOU.

But in case you need a refresher here's some of the ways many have been hurt:

9/11
Iraq
Lying
Spying
Pharmaceutical companies/Health Care
Corporate Whores
Outsourcing
The Bankruptcy Bill
Katrina
ETC., ETC., ETC!

The list goes on and on and on-and it ain't "abstract" in any way, shape or form. :grr:



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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
89. Warning: GRAPHIC
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 06:41 PM by Hell Hath No Fury
None of the following things happened to me directly:

















So, DUers have very little basis for hating George W. Bush?

By your way of thinking, I should not be angry or feel hatred at all for Bush & Co. simply because crimes were committed against people by my government and in my name as an American citizen. Uh huh.

In other words, I should not bother my beautiful mind because these atrocities did not happen to me directly or impact me directly. I was not the one who had a bomb dropped on my daughter, so I can't hate Bush for that. Nor did I lose my leg from an IED in service of an illegal war -- nope, can't hate Bush then. Then I guess it's out of the question that I can hate Bush because I didn't almost die at the Superdome, wasn't dragged around on a leash, or because I wasn't terrorized by a dog.

You see, that is the thing that makes Democrats different than the GOP. We happen to think beyond ourselves, our lives, and our country -- beyond our own self interest to see how our actions and our government's actions impact others. We feel the injustice, we feel the pain, and we feel the horror.

It's called being a compassionate human being.

But you already know that, because you're a Democrat and all.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #89
102. What happens to one affects us ALL!
We have ALL been affected by this corrupt administration, one way or another, directly or indirectly. The thought that you must have been personally inconvenienced for you to care about something is Freeper logic.

What's done to one American is done to ALL AMERICANS!
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. That is it in a nutshell...
"The thought that you must have been personally inconvenienced for you to care about something is Freeper logic."

"Freeper logic" is right!

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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Well said!
:applause:

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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. It's not just a youth thing (I'm 48)
As much as I despised Nixon and Reagan, they didn't have the singlemindlessness of Bush: the war in Iraq, the assault on the separation of church and state, the lack of leadership and empathy during a natural disaster, the rampant corruption, the record-annihilating deficits, the manipulation of people's worst impulses, the baldfaced disregard for the rule of law -- in fact you'll get carpal tunnel before you list every major horrible thing he's done.

For all his sins -- most notably having a "secret plan" for ending Vietnam that didn't seem to exist in his first term and the whole spying and enemies list thing -- there was a lot of progress in liberal programs under his watch.

And Ronnie, despicable figurehead that he was, does deserve some credit for restoring American self-confidence.

Under Bush II, that confidence has turned into hubris, and wrapped in incompetence and deceit.

All that, IMHO, puts him on top of the bottom of the heap. Or the bottom. Whichever's worse.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Thank you--that's a nice invite!
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. Somehow I've got the feeling I've been had
Dollars to donuts, Platimum, you're not who you say you are.
___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"
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platimum Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #62
80. No
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 04:47 PM by platimum
I'm just more moderate than you're comfortable with--and I ask for actual proof on a very personal level.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. You almost had me convinced
I was about to join you in the moderate camp, but then I reflected on my own life before Bush:

My wife left me to marry another woman
The ozone layer was giving me headaches
I was forcibly prevented from practicing my Christian faith
Every damn day, not enough of my taxes were going to support Halliburton
I was living in New Orleans and some bastards rescued me from a storm
Because of the Geneva convention, I lost my job as a nude-prisoner-pyramids photographer
I was personally menaced by innocent Middle Easterners who are now thankfully locked up in Guantanamo and denied habeus corpus
The NSA wiretapped my phone -- and the creeps went through the FISA court!
The energy company I own was forced to pay TAXES and wasn't allowed to set the nation's energy policy
An embryo was nearly sacrificed to cure my grandmother's stupid cancer
I was repeatedly kicked in the groin -- and sprayed with chemical weapons -- by Saddam Hussein

I'm grateful to you for forcing me to look at my personal experiences as a guide for my political choices. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"


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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #80
91. I smell an imposter
Since when do professionals notify a new message board of their profession inside of 50 posts and then demand that everyone answer them within the tightest frame possible? This coupled with an unwillingness to listen to the answers given. Understand that your claims of greatness and authority mean squat on the internet...all that matters is what you say.

A lot of people here have been personally affected by everything that is Bush, but I respect some to keep their woes to themslves. Read the statistics and understand that the dead tell no tales, nor do the homeless, the poor, the incarcerated, etc. Your question in itself is a tautology...you are only asking people who have a computer, lean progressive, and need a place to vent....a rather difficult sample to get answers like "Bush killed me, Bush put me in jail, or Bush made me homeless". Should we dig up the DUers who were rounded up in New York during the convention, or who had to deal with personal attacks from Bush's worshippers while fighting cancer...what would fill that incredibly tall glass you are asking to be filled before we can say we hate Bush?

But I can say this to you, since you want such personal experiences. My wife suffered greatly for three goddamned years from Bush cutting the workman's compensation fund in Texas. I cannot even tell my fellow DUers how horrible it is to watch someone suffer and not be able to do anything about it...many of you know. And I refuse to divulge all of the specifics to a bunch of strangers on the damned internet.

So can I hate the prick, now, oh knowledgeable and all-wise guru of what is just and fair? I know you will want dates and places and specifics, but you aren't going to get it, because I do not know you and you are ostensibly not worth it, judging by our attitude.

You seriously need to readjust your attitude if you plan to work and play well with others.

Since you are also lacking in netiquette, understand also that not many want to chase around links and proof to an over-demanding, haughty, deaf-to-everyone-but-themselves newbie.

And welcome to DU!!

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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #91
99. I smell an imposter too...
...and I think you nailed this one.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #80
98. Pfft...
Your entire line of questioning is based on a flawed premise: that it's irrational to identify one as an enemy 1) unless he affects you personally and 2) until the damage is done. Why don't you try running that line of thinking past a holocaust survivor, one of the Iraqi civilians in the photos up-thread, one of the Abu Ghraib torture victims, or a Katrina survivor with dead family members. Furthermore, when you see someone breaking into your bedroom window, you don't wait until he's on top of you to react. I think you'll find that most people here are far too bright (and much too human) to buy into such a ridiculous premise. And you are a psychologist???

I would add that I have worked with and been friends with many psychologists over the years. I have never known one to react in such a flippant manner toward the types of personal tragedies some have described in this thread. Oh wait... I take that back; I knew one guy who was a corporate hack and used his skills to help management manipulate employees so they could squeeze more productivity out of them.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #80
100. You're a troll.
I don't care if my post is deleted, I'm calling your ass out. Go back to freeperland.

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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
84. bush is the worst president this nation has ever had. I agree his
subordinates leave a lot to be desired, the vast majority of them are crooks, liars and downright incompetent.

Since bush took office, the national debt has risen to an astounding 7.8 TRILLION dollars, while this man has called for tax cuts and expanded spending to record highs.

bush lied us into a war, and despite all of the theories out there, the best one seems to be gain Iraq's oil. We went into this fiasco under the auspices that terror and bin-Laden were the targets. So far, not just no bin-Laden, but terror is increasing.

bush has failed at everything he has ever attempted. He has left business' in tatters while he made millions. He simply has no soul and no conscience.

The only thing that the bush administration going for it was Colin Powell. After they used him to push for a war, and Powell's substantial credibility was wrecked, they cast him aside. Is this the type of person we want running the country?

I don't care what anyone says about bush's intellect. He has shown me time and again he is an idiot. He is incapable of a decent thought process, and when challenged on the merit of his ideas, he takes some moronic "imperial" stance, and pushes for what he thinks is right...it never is.

bush and his cronies have used the administration as a way to enrich themselves at the expense of the American citizen. Each and every one of us that works from minimum wage up to $100,000 a year, are paying for the wealth that this administration is stripping from this nation. They demand sacrifice of the citizen, but will not sacrifice any of their own assets.

bush and his minions from hell have taken the Bill of Rights and used it to light celebratory cigars as they trample on the rights of Americans. The Patriot Act is an act against Americans, not protection from terrorists. Terrorists don't care about laws on the books, but we sure as hell should. Each time this gasbag of a president speaks, it is all about fear. Everyone is an enemy! He views the American citizen as an enemy, hence the laws enacted against us. He views us with scorn as he signs executive orders that take our Liberty away.

We were attacked on 9-11. Going after bin-Laden was a choice we were all behind. Where is he? Is he planning another attack? bush tells us that bin-Laden is no longer a priority...if that isn't pathetic, what is?
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #84
103. Great post!!!!
Says it all!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
87. That which BushCo has wraught will affect us and the world adversly
for generations to come.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. A-fricking-men.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. That's funny...I don't remember writing that!
Wow -- what a great post. I have never felt hatred or anger like I feel towards little lord pissy pants. I can't stand to look at him, I can't stand to listen to him, and I am sick of being lied to by this piece of shit.

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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
71. LOL -
my thoughts also.
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ClarkBayh 2008 Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. Now ain't the time for your tears
Everyone who is so sad & frustrated now should stop whining &
instead make sure that the Democrats put together candidates that
can win.

Instead of all the sackcloth & ashes make sure the next election
sees a democratic nominee who can actually win more than 16 states.
This party needs a reality check.

I didn't see protests & mass rallies when 100,000 kooks in Florida
voted for Nader. You don't like Bush's policies, help the Dems get Congress back in
2006.

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Kenergy Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
59. I wonder if we could file a class action suit against him for
emotional distress???
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
81. Bush is GOING DOWN!! He may well
face the death penalty and his families dynasty will go down in history as the cause of near extinction of the human specie.

Great post.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
83. We have nothing to fear except billionaires who can reshape the planet
at will, and are currently doing so, because they equate opportunity with mandate.
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blue cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. I'm getting sicker by the day
of all this bushit. I'm waiting for more people to wake the fuck up. Just seething right now.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
93. maybe it's just me
but i have MUCH more disgust for his enablers and supporters that want to cover their ears and close their eyes when the truth is shown to them
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
95. You are not alone.
I'm sick of him, too and suffer the same as does everyone I know whether its family, friends, cousins from around all around the country, to barely known neighbors and strangers while out shopping, or passerbys - even repairmen of all ages and handymen, the type you'd assume would be supportive of this crap.

Its no solace, I know, but maybe it would help if you knew you're not alone.
Thanks for the post. Now I know I am not alone either.

Hate, like love, is a natural reaction to people and events that have caused all of us disgusting pain.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
101. I can totally relate to that, including the visceral hatred.
I hate him too, and don't care who knows it!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
105. Have you noticed how the man-boy is getting even more ridiculous evry day?
He's gotten much worse than ever before, even though we thought it wasn't possible. He's gone from a simple smirk on his face to one of outright laughter, as if he's constantly thumbing his nose at all our faces. Whenever they show him on the news, he puts on this air where he looks like some naughty punk fratboy who just go done filling someone's gloves with grease as a prank. He looks like a fucking goofeball...and this is our president?? There is nothing presidential about this pathetic shame of a human being. What's worse is that this jerkoff has it in his power to pull off more deadly pranks on the world that only he could think are funny.
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
106. I despise him too
My wish for him is that all the sorrows he has caused so many others are visited upon him. I want him to know sorrow and despair and pain and loss. I want him to feel the hatred of everyone every day for the rest of his life. I want him to live in fear for himself and his family forever. And I want him to live for a long, long time.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
110. to wrap this all up for platinium - WE ARE SICK OF HIM

and will stay that way until the bushmilhousegang is gone
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schmuls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
111. God you are so right. I think I have become physicall sick over
the last few years because of him and maybe I'm internalizing my anger. I can't stand him!
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AusGail Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
112. So pleased you didn't hold back on your feelings
I am Australian and I detest the "man" as well. When I heard that he had been governor of the state that held the most executions, I knew then that he held no value on human life. When he sent your troops to Iraq to be killed, maimed and mentally tortured, it did not surprise me in the least. I wonder if anyone could put an exact figure on how many deaths he has been responsible for, both in America and abroad. Your president is an idiot. When he made that statement after 911 "If you are not with us, you are against us", he showed his true colors then.

He is not the only one that I detest. I will throw in Wolferwitz, Perl, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice and to a slightly lesser degree - Powell. It appears to me that Bush is just the puppet and all the above mentioned names are the puppeteers.

John Howard, who I'm ashamed to say is my Prime Minister is also amongst the people I detest. He is an arrogant, brown-nosing, compulsive liar who tries never to miss an opportunity to share the world stage with Bush. What an embarrassment.

What a wonderful way to vent my anger
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
113. Five billion people on this planet feel the same fucking way!
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