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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:48 AM
Original message
Duckworth, Scott attend DuPage County Unity Breakfast, Cegelis does not
6th District Democrats rallying to defeat Roskam

By Kathryn Grondin
Daily Herald Staff Writer
Posted Sunday, March 26, 2006


DuPage County Democrats are thirsty thirsty to win a seat in Congress.

They say they think their goal finally will be within reach this November in the traditionally Republican 6th Congressional District, where retiring political icon U.S. Rep. Henry Hydes seat is up for grabs.

Even Moses got out of the desert, Joan Brennan, a state central committeewoman, said Saturday. I want out of the desert. Dont you?

The question drew resounding applause Saturday during a party unity breakfast in Oakbrook Terrace.

The Republicans are losing their stranglehold on this district, said the partys nominee, Tammy Duckworth. The middle-class lifestyle is in jeopardy. We need to take care of our families.

-snip-
Were going to go out there and fight advocate for the working families of this district, Duckworth said. I am strong enough to stand up to Peter Roskam and all of his powerful interests.

But before Democrats can effectively wage a unified campaign against Roskam, they must rebuild some bridges within their own party.

Saturdays breakfast was supposed to demonstrate unity among Duckworth and the two primary foes she vanquished on Tuesday, Lindy Scott of Wheaton and Christine Cegelis of Rolling Meadows.

Scott attended but Cegelis who unsuccessfully had taken on Hyde two years ago did not.

Bridget Dooley, who worked on the Cegelis campaign, said Cegelis had a family commitment and could not attend.

We are a family, a Democratic family, and blood is thicker than water, Scott said. The bad news is that in our Democratic family, like any family, there are hurt feelings. Theres a lot of pain.
-snip-

http://www.dailyherald.com/news/dupagestory.asp?id=1711...
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wished that she had attended.
She had a prior committment, but if she had won the election, I am sure she would have been at this function.

It sucks to lose. But if you want the dem to win, you need to campaign against the GOP.

The story should be UNITY. It is the job of Ms. Cegelis to make the story "unity". PDA too.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Reaction if Cegelis won and Duckworth has a "prior committment"?
I think it would have been ugly.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Prior committment is BS.
What if she had won? Would she have skipped out?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Duckworth supporters and those that criticize Cegelis will be told. . .
. . .to be respectful, gracious, etc. but we are expected to excuse and ignore immature behavior. Double standards!
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Maybe the Illinois Democratic Party leadership knew the character
of the candidates and that is why they sought an alternative. After all the debate and hype, things fall into place.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. In his article Will Pitt pretty much reinforced my opinion of Christine's
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 10:17 AM by wndycty
. . .fitness as a candidate and campaign management which led me to seek an alternative. I was roundly criticized for raising the very points that Will makes in his article:

-snip-
The Cegelis campaign, meanwhile, was sailing through rough waters of its own. The campaign manager managed to spend $250,000 on nothing, putting the campaign into a deep financial hole. The ground network established since 2004 was left fallow. Six weeks before the primary, Cegelis fired her campaign manager, along with virtually her entire staff, and brought in a man named Kevin Spidel. Spidel, who was at the time serving as Deputy National Director for Progressive Democrats of America, took a leave of absence from PDA to take over as campaign manager. He organized a whole new staff, took a look at the money they had on hand, and engineered a whole new plan based on the ground network that had once been the main strength of Cegelis' run.
-snip-

It was that close. Had Spidel been brought in a few weeks earlier, and had the previous campaign manager not spent a quarter of a million dollars worth of campaign funds on shadows and dust, the outcome probably would have been much different. The Lindy Scott factor likewise cannot be ignored. In the end, he got nearly 8,000 votes, amounting to somewhere around 16%. It is telling, when thinking of Scott, to see the blog post he made days before the election, in which he bragged that a majority of the votes he expected to get would come from erstwhile Cegelis voters.
-snip-

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032406Z.shtml

This is from Will Pitt, not Rahm, not the DCCC, not the DLC, but God of all Gods William Rivers Pitt. When I and others raised the very issues in bold as causes for concern and reasons to look for alternatives we were told they were BS and roundly criticized.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Did you read the article? Will Pitt's support of Christine was sincere
. . .he was just giving an honest assesment of the situation that confronted Kevin when he took over. Why is his truth on this matter so easily dismissed by you? Oh please, Will and I were on the opposite sides of this issue but he is just being honest about the factors that contributed to Christine's troubles.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Deleted message
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. Will should not have written that.
There is a lot more to the story. I was really on board with their working for Cegelis, but this was over the line. Will P. hurt the former manager publicly trying to make Spidel look good.

That is inexcusable.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. The truth is inexcusable? That says a lot about you.
For months many of us who supported Duckworth cited the Christine's campaign and financial management as a reason to look for an alternative, whenever we did we were criticized, called names told that it was not true, problem is it was true!

What I think is in inexcusable is trying to keep Will quiet, saying it was wrong for him to be honest. I actually thinks this makes Cegelis look good because it shows that she staged a hell of a comeback.

Lets not hide from the truth. I think its laughable that Will gets praise when he says what some want to hear but when he says what they don't want to hear he is told he should not have written that.

LETS BE HONEST FOLKS!!!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
84. Right on the money
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Oh oh Mr. Benchley is here. . .
LOL Have not seen you since the election.

:kick:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. I've been very busy....
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 08:32 PM by MrBenchley
I recall only too well the "outrage" that our progressive purists had whenver anybody pointed out how fucked up Cegelis' spending was....and lo and behold, it WAS fucked up.

I also note with grim amusement the double standard from people who were DEMANDING that Duckworth supporters pledge ahead of time to support Cegelis after the election...
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. It is the height of hypocrisy isn't it
:kick:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. The overblown rhetoric in the OTHER thread
gave me a big giggle....it seems the "hopeful" have been vanquished by the DLC....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Now that is rich, Bently getting kicked out of the thread. . .
. . .LOL
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. I'm not kicking him out. I was asking him to be quiet for the benefit
of the candidate he supports. Benchley's approach has never helped anyone he's campaigned for.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Well I would hate to think what happens on the DU impacts the actual . . .
. . .election. No one has asked anyone to be quiet, we have argued, fought, debated, etc. I think telling someone to be quiet shows a weakness on one's part. . .can't debate him on the facts?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. You are one to lecture. . .let's not forget you have made up a bunch of...
. . .shit about Duckworth so you have NO CREDIBILITY either.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. I made up nothing about Duckworth.
The point of nominating someone as a "moderate" is to say to Republican voters "it's ok, you can't vote for this candidate and you won't notice that he or she ISN'T a Republican".

That's what "moderation" as Rahm defines it means.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #96
144. No, Ken, I leave Democrat-hating to you "progressives"
you seem to have a corner on the market.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #144
146. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
45. WOW, all those problems in the Cigalis campaign,
and she still came within 1% of defeating Duckworth who had the financial backing of the beltway insider elites?

Hmmm, makes you wonder.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
89. Good point.
:hi:
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #45
117. The only thing it makes me wonder is why we're still in the circular firi
firing squad. The primary is over, and democrats should know what we need to do: defeat republicans and get democrats elected.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #117
122. Democratic insiders are more interested in defeating antiwar Democrats
Edited on Mon Mar-27-06 09:26 AM by IndianaGreen
than they are in such trivial matters such as censuring or impeaching Bush for his law breaking or bringing the troops home from the civil war in Iraq.

Forget wndcty's incendiary title for this thread which was clearly intended by him to start a flame war, here is what Cegelis had to say:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #122
123. So the thousands of people who voted for Duckworth are insiders?
I didn't know that.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #123
124. The people that put Duckworth as a candidate are the insiders, DCCC
Or are you guys now going to blame the voters?
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. Huh? I am not blaming the voters. They chose Duckworth and
I repect their choice. Do you?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #126
127. Obviously every person who voted for Duckworth is a DLC, DINO, DCCC. . .
. . .Rovian shill. Don't you get it :sarcasm:
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #127
128. Actually, Diebold lets dem insiders control the vote in the dem primaries.
Once it is over the dem insiders have to give control of the machines back to Rove so repubs can win the actual election.
:eyes:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #128
145. LOL.
Your sarcasm will be hijacked and used as a serious point of debate shortly. lol.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #126
129. Lets assume that Rahm Emmanuel decided to run one of his vets
(a vet that opposes withdrawing from Iraq, as Duckworth does) against our antiwar candidate in my district Julia Carson, and let's say the DCCC's money and the Beltway personalities succeed in defeating Carson in the May Democratic primary. Let's also say that the DCCC's vet has never lived in Carson's district, in effect a ringer as Duckworth is, how would I feel about it?

:think:

I wonder if the Libertarian candidate is antiwar?
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #129
130. I'd let the voters decide who the nominee is, would you?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #130
132. No one owns my vote and if the scenario I described were to take place
in my district, I would never forgive the DCCC for sabotaging the antiwar candidacy of Julia Carson and I would never vote for their annointed "stay the course" candidate.

Do I make myself clear?
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #132
134. Sure, you vote how you want, other people vote how they want
and I respect both of your descisions. I'd hope that all democrats would respect the candidate who gets the most votes, and supports them in the fall.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #132
136. What you are saying is you don't trust the voters to decide. . .
. . .based on your logic if people are presented with 2 or 3 candidates don't you trust them to figure out who will best represent them?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #136
139. You are the one that started this flame war with your misleading title
thread. I hope you are pleased with yourself.

:puke:

Thursday March 23, 2006

Cluster&%$


Let me make clear what I think happened in the 6th if the below post on the reduction in Democratic voters doesn't make it clear.

Three candidates--all people I think are nice people ran in three different ways. One spent $700,000. One tried to bring in new Democrats. One essentially organized for 3 years.

The grand total of that effort? 4,000 fewer votes in the primary than 2 years ago. Not only did they not make the pie larger, the divided it up between themselves and subtracted 4,000 people.

That takes some talent on all their parts.

Everyone complaining about the other camps needs to drop it now and figure out how they screwed up themselves and there are plenty of things to point towards that were problematic. I can start going through them one after another for days on end, and trust me, no campaign would be happy by the time I'm done.

With SEIU and other unions backing her, Tammy couldn't get out any more voters than in the past even with all the resources she could need. If you can't use the money to get people to the polls, there isn't going to be much of a contest in November.

http://www.archpundit.com/archives/013471.html
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
94. OK, Cegelis should have at least put in an appearance.
I'm not disagreeing with you there.

Still, considering the abuse and viciousness many Duckworth people(wndycty excepted)directed towards Cegelis, it's a venial rather than mortal sin.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
149. You CAN'T attack Cegelis and her supporters
and then still claim you have the right to ask for their support. If Duckworth herself accepts Cegelis' explanation, you should as well. Stop picking unnecessary fights.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. What a shame.
Here we were taking delight in the failure of the GOPers to get it together after their Gov primary race. Now we face the same. This shows character and the lack thereof.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. So you guys are going to blame Cegelis if Duckworth loses.
This is going on at Kos and other places. Setting Cegelis up for blame.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Not at all.
But I remember reading in many forums that if Cegelis won, the Duckworth supporters had better get behind her fully. It would be good to see unity but Duckworth must be responsible for her campaign. The fact that some Cegelis supporters will not support Duckworth is shameful.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. The fact that Duckworth opposes a withdrawal from Iraq is shameful
Duckworth does not support Murtha's call for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. That is not a fact.
Murtha's plan is not the only plan. Duckworth supports the withdrawal of troops.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. Bush supports the withdrawal of troops too!
When the mission is done (however that is defined), Bush says.

Bush said that the troops will be in Iraq until at least January 20,2009, when he leaves office. Well, that's totally unacceptable!

Many GIs are in their second or third combat tour of Iraq, are the Democrats saying now that they should do their fourth, fifth, or even sixth tour in Iraq and wait until there is a Democrat in the White House? Well, that is also totally unacceptable!
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Are permanent bases withdrawal?
Hardly a fair comparison.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
148. support of withdrawal without a timetable is meaningless.
It's code for "let's stay in the war forever".

We all know that the Iraqi "government" will never get its act together and that democracy will never take root there. We also know that if Iraqis ever voted for a genuinely secular, genuinely democratic government, Bush would overthrow it because the U.S. has never wanted democracy or peace anywhere in the Middle East. Why pretend otherwise?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. You don't realize what harm the arrogance does.
But then I don't live there. We have our own battles to fight, decisions are being made here.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Arrogance is not accepting the loss.
There has been no gloating here over Cegelis' loss. As a matter of fact I would have been delighted to see Cegelis win since that would have been a victory for grass/net roots. The voters however were more receptive to Duckworth. Maybe the right candidate is another important part of the process.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. If you don't see it, then it is even sadder.
God, I am glad I don't live there. It is bad enough here.
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You keep saying "I'm glad I don't live there"
And if you did you might know enough about the district to understand why Duckworth had support. What can you tell me about the 6th CD, what do you know about it. Don't you think if you are going to have opinion about this race you should know something about the district?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. IL-06 has been hurt by globalization!
People like Rahm Emmanuel are neolib globalists!

Published on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 by the Huffington Post
Stand Up to the Beltway Democrats
by Jonathan Tasini


If you are one of those Democrats like me who is completely fed up with the inside-the-Beltway party hacks who continue to lose elections because they have no spine and no vision, listen closely to a little something you can do this week to rap the knuckles of the Democratic Party machine.

Two years ago, Christine Cegelis took 44 percent from Henry Hyde, the arch conservative congressman and Congressional father of the anti-choice movement, in the suburban Chicago-area 6th District in Illinois. Her race pushed Hyde to announce he would retire. Cegelis, supported by a broad grass-roots network, decided immediately to run for the seat in 2006.

Rather than line up behind a candidate who was poised to capture the district, the Beltway Democrats recruited a primary opponent to take on Cegelis. Why? Because Cegelis is precisely the kind of progressive candidate the Beltway Democrats are afraid of: she is a progressive, anti-war, pro-choice, pro-renewable energy, pro-universal health care and opposes NAFTA-like trade deals. She's called for a quick and safe withdrawal of troops.

The Beltway Democrats tapped Tammy Duckworth, a person who has never lived in the district. Her central asset: she is a member of the Army Reserves who lost both her legs in Iraq. She isn't even running against the war--she is simply a symbol of patriotism. While her personal story is moving, she is also precisely the kind of candidate that the Beltway Democrats love--centrist and pro-business.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0315-29.htm


Published on Friday, March 3, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
Cegelis vs. The Machine
by Cindy Sheehan


I am beginning to wonder what it is that such "Democrats" like Rahm Emanuel (IL), Chuck Schumer (NY), and Nancy Pelosi (CA) are protecting in Iraq. What is it that they have at stake in keeping the occupation of Iraq going? Their constituents in every case are solidly anti-war and anti-Bush. They all come from the bluest of states and/or districts. Yet when faced with the chance to defend and promote antiwar candidates who agree with the majority of Americans that it's time to get out of Iraq this year, they go into overdrive to try to destroy their candidacies.

Take the case of Christine Cegelis. Cegelis opposed the war before it started. She supports single-payer health care and a strong transition to renewable energy.

She's pro-choice, and anti-CAFTA. And she has a strong grassroots following in her district. In short, Christine Cegelis is exactly the kind of candidate that the Democratic Party needs.

On top of that, in 2004 Christine took on the thankless task of running against arch-conservative Henry Hyde (R-IL). You remember Henry Hydethe man whose name is on key right-to-life, the man who led the impeachment fight against Bill Clinton, the man who now chairs the International Relations Committee in the House and routinely buries antiwar Democrats' attempts to investigate the lies that took us into the Iraq War that then took Casey.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0303-20.htm
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
98. There's been a lot of gloating, and a lot of hostility directed at Cegelis
and her supporters. This thread, for example, where a completely unneccessary fight has been picked over a rather meaningless post-election event.

Most of Duckworth's supporters were basically arguing that Cegelis was not only not their candidate, she was unworthy of the nomination.
And this was a race for Congress, not state treasurer, so there was a limit as to how relevant what happened to the money was.

It's time to pull together. Attacking the defeated candidate and sneering at her supporters won't help that process. Back off guys, it's enough for now that the big money narrowly bought your candidate victory. Don't demand unconditional surrender and don't act as if this proves that your side won the philosophical arguement.

And don't assume people will really be THAT swayed by a uniform.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
112. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #112
114. Defeating Democrats does tend to delight you to no end, I've noticed.
Psst, advocating for the defeat of the Democratic candidate in a general election is against the rules at DEMOCRATIC Underground.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Didn't Duckworth support Bush prior to her being wounded in Iraq?
And isn't Cegelis the one with the Democratic bona fides?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #115
116. To be honest Duckworth did not support Bush and guess what?
She is the DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR CONGRESS FROM THE 6th CD in Illinois.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #116
119. This is what Mike Hersh has to say about Tammy Duckworth's credentials
Old time DUers will remember Mike Hersh who used to post anti-Nader tirades in DU. Mr. Hersh is a committed Democratic (with a big D) partisan, and this is what he had to say about Tammy Duckworth's "Democratic" credentials:

The Meddling Machine Gets it Wrong - Again

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) recruited a "ringer" - a raw recruit from outside the district - to vie for the nomination: Tammy Duckworth. Ms. Duckworth has never been involved in political activity, and her candidacy one note is based on her service in the Army Reserves. She lost her legs in Iraq, and is running as a symbol of patriotism. We respect her struggle to cope with her tragic injuries, but as a candidate Ms. Duckworth delivers a mixed message. Despite her personal tragedy, she will not speak out against the war! She echoes Bush's views. Most Americans want to end illegal, immoral war and occupation. We don't need a symbol in the House. We need strong leadership to end the war and occupation.

<snip>

Party bosses oppose Cegelis, either because they think a vet is more likely to win, they don't want an independent progressive new member of Congress, or both. It's very unlikely Duckworth would win in November. Christine Cegelis is a proven vote-getter who knows her district. Her clear positions against the war, for a women's right to reproductive freedom, against bad trade deals and for renewable energy match her district well. And she - unlike her rivals - supports a definite timetable for quick, safe withdrawal of our troops from Iraq. Cegelis is Progressive Democrat we can trust and must support.

http://www.mikehersh.com/We_Need_Christine_Cegelis_in_C...
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #119
138. Unless Hersh is going to support a 3rd party candidate in the 6th CD of IL
He has two choices Tammy Duckworth or Peter Roskam.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #138
142. There was a lower turn out of 4,000 voters than there was in 2004
This may indicate that disgust with Bush is not an automatic endorsement of the Democratic alternative and that many voters are choosing to not to vote.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #112
118. Personally, I could do without the Nader 2000 approach.
Lets not split our vote and lose please.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #118
121. Another example of Duckworth's support of Bush's policies
Remember that Duckworth does not live in IL-06 at all, she is a "ringer.":

Christine Cegelis said she agreed with Sen. Russ Feingold, the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Library Association, and others who opposed the reauthorization as embodied in the compromise bill. "I would have voted no. Period," she said. She also said that one of the problems with U.S. intelligence gathering is that agencies "have too much information -- they're overloaded with information" and their computer systems can't effectively process it all or coordinate it between agencies.

Tammy Duckworth said she, too, had reservations about privacy issues, but she would have voted for the bill and then would push for additional changes in the future. She also noted, however, that if information derived from electronic eavesdropping or other forms of intelligence gathering would have prevented 9/11 or "saved the life of a single soldier," that benefit would outweigh privacy concerns.


Cegelis agrees with Feingold, the ACLU and the ALA, and would have "voted no. Period." Duckworth said she would have voted for it, and sees value in trading privacy rights off for government eavesdropping's benefits. Scott thought the bill was the best we could do and would have voted for it.

http://michael-in-chicago.mydd.com/
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #121
125. That's all fine but Cegelis lost.
IL-06 nominated Duckworth. I don't really want to get in the circular firing squad with you, I want to get democrats elected.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #125
131. It is the OP that started this flame war with his headline
which was clearly intended to stir up the pot, and which he has used as an opportunity to fan passions and to insult antiwar Democrats and independents.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #131
133. I agree that we have no idea why Cegelis wasn't there
and there is no reason to assume she is being malicious.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #131
140. WTF? I'm an anti-war Democrat. How can I insult myself?
LOL :kick:
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ClarkBayh 2008 Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #118
150. AMEN
This party simply doesn't learn from history.
It's pathetic.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. I liked her before but if she chooses to undercut the Dems chance
to pick up the seat, grrrrrr.

This isn't about one person. It is about taking back the damn House.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. Don't fall for this.
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 11:49 AM by madfloridian
They are setting it up to blame Cegelis if Duckworth loses. It will carry over to her supporters being to blame....and the Sun Times is even suggesting it is all Dean's fault for encouraging grassroots to run.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2006/03/duckworth_faces...
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Your link is to the Sun Times.
Not the Tribune.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Fixed. But the paragraph is there.
All set up to blame everyone and his brother if Duckworth loses.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. God you are f'ing paranoid
Lynn Sweet is not suggesting that its Dean's fault, she is saying Dean, and his movement, made it POSSIBLE for Christine to be such a strong candidate. You have to stop being so paranoid. Dean is not being criticized, its awesome that he has brought so many people into the process.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. It also makes it sound as though if he doesn't do it....
and Duckworth loses...well, never mind. Just my paranoia kicking in.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. For once we agree on something. . .
LOL
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Duckworth: "The middle-class lifestyle is in jeopardy"
I don't think that would have been Bobby Kennedy's rallying cry in 1968. Bobby would have spoken about peace abroad and economic justice at home.

Tammy Duckworth is no Bobby Kennedy!

Duckworth is just what we needed, a crusader for bourgeois values and an advocate for the investor class!
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. What about the demographic of voters in the CD she's running in?
It's unlikely Bobby Kennedy could have won an election there.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Why don't you ditch abortion rights, LGBT rights, and civil rights
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 10:37 AM by IndianaGreen
and you will really be appealing to the demographics!

Catering to people's prejudices is what the GOP has done for years, let's not go down the same path!
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. More talking out of one's ass to bring down Duckworth. . .
. . .its perfectly acceptable to disagree with Duckworth however don't make up shit to disagree with.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. If you want to whore yourself to appeal to people's ignoble instincts
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 11:07 AM by IndianaGreen
what Bobby Kennedy referred to as the "darkest impulses in people", then you are no different from the party in power.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Who is the whore? Come on Indy Green. . .back your shit up here. . .
. . .who is the whore? You said it. Back it up. Who is the whore. . .oh yeah, and don't make shit up.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. it`s a solid upper middle class district
talking about economic justice is something other people do..i mean how are these businesses going to afford the hire lawn care and cleaning services if they would have to pay a decent wage for the area? and come on indianagreen do you really want to pay the sales clerks a little over min. wage? i mean the gap would have to raise their prices or worse go out of business..
good thing neither one of us live in the 6th..i have hard enough time living in ground zero in the illinois 14th.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. I understand the disappointment
over Cegelis not attending this event, but it serves no purpose to overly dwell on this, or to amp up those feelings into something stronger. November is a long way off, there is still plenty of time for Cegelis to make an important contribution to electing a Democrat, Duckworth, in this Congressional district. In particular I think it counterproductive to everyone to now question either her character or prior abilities as a candidate.

The whole point of this thread is a plea for Party unity. I fail to see how saying anything negative about Cegelis now in any way advances Party unity. I can only see it doing the opposite, if anything. We need to let go of this competition. If in fact people don't accept the reason Cegelis gave for not attending on face value, then perhaps it is a little bit harder for her to let go of her feelings after fighting for this seat for over two years and coming so close to winning the Primary days ago. Cegelis has not been at all bitter toward Duckworth in her public words. Let's not further drive a wedge between the groups of supporters each of these women have. Let's be part of the solution, not the problem.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
46. building unity
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 12:29 PM by welshTerrier2
i fully support what you've said ... threads like these just pour gasoline on a very real, very large fire ...

but i think it's also important to emphasize that it will take far more than pretty words and "make nice" to win the support of voters who resented the interference, prior to a primary, from DC for a candidate with an "unacceptable" position on the war ...

unity is critical but it will only be achieved by compromise; not by "let's go get those republicans" talk ... if Democrats, Duckworth or anybody else fails to reach out to anti-war voters, unity will not be possible ... inclusiveness requires a change ON THE ISSUES; not just "good vibes and kind words" ...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. Cegelis on Laura Flanders last night.
Made it clear that the tactic the Duckworth campaign is using now is not that very appropriate...I don't remember the exact words but about the fact that the Duckworth campaign was using the "fall in line" tactic.

She suggested they use other means, more inclusive.

The quote from the Duckworth manager was irritating.

"Cegelis, the 2004 nominee, never got her props from Emanuel and company, which only infuriated her base. Privately, a few of Duckworth's advisers agreed that Cegelis should have been handled better. The more than $600,000 Duckworth raised just to beat her could have been better used against Roskam.

I asked Duckworth spokesman Billy Weinberg what their strategy is for engaging estranged Democrats like Major. "By reminding them how high the stakes are," he said. "And how it is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to compete and win in November. And to point out the stark differences."
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2006/03/duckworth_faces...

I think maybe she is right.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. After reading all the arrogant posts how Cegelis "better do right."..
I am most glad I don't live there, because I would just sit home that day. Stop the lecturing, stop the making fun, stop the humiliation.

Be inclusive. Your posts always sound as if Duckworth were the entitled one from the beginning.

There is nothing Cegelis can do to stop them from blaming her and her supporters if Duckworth loses. It is in the cards.

And I will call attention to your tactics every chance I get.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Apology accepted.
Before it is offered.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. It won't be offered. . .
:kick:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. You should apologize for those statements.
It was a personal insult to me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. It was meant to insult? Strange thing to say.
I don't see what you gain by it.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. what good does that do?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
76. Exactly. It does no good. I'm glad it got deleted n/t
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. right on, Mad !!!
i am 100% in agreement with your understanding of the need of INCLUSIVENESS ...

the arrogant stupidity of any Democrat who believes people should "just go along" is a perfect way to lose elections ... you don't earn votes by disrespecting voters and not representing their positions on critical issues ... the party, specifically Emanuel and the DCCC, stuck a knife in our backs when they ran Duckworth ... if they want our support now, they'd better offer a whole lot more than "breakfast" ...

i won't address the specifics of the abuses in the Cegelis race ... i will say, however, that the arrogance of DC insiders, especially on the Iraq issue, will cost votes ... the anti-war movement, i.e. those who want immediate or near-term withdrawal, is growing rapidly ... a recent poll showed this is the position of about 2/3 of Democrats ... we in the "Cegelis" wing of the party will not be bullied ...

if the party won't represent us, we won't support and vote for them ...
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Just go along?
What about the 44% of Democrats who did not want to just "go along" with Cegelis just because she ran a decent race (which she lost by 12 points) in 2004. Lets not be hypocrits. Duckworth was not entitled to anyone's support nor was Cegelis and when given a choice the voters of the 6th CD chose Duckworth, enough said.

A number of people who KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS of the 6th CD think Cegelis was entitled to run without a primary.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. let's not misrepresent my position
i didn't say Duckworth or any candidate didn't have a right to run ... before you call me a hypocrit, get your facts straight ...

the two issues i did raise were:
1. i resent the interference from the national party PRIOR TO A PRIMARY ... candidates should not be picked by Washington as part of a national strategy; that's for voters to decide ... the party should remain on the sidelines until the voters make their choice and
2. my "just go along" reference has to do with the issue of Iraq and the national Democratic Party, not just the 6th district ...

the point is that the anti-war movement is not going to be bullied into supporting any candidate, Democrat or otherwise, who doesn't speak out against the war and fight to end it ASAP ...
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Tell it, Welsh!
"It is better to vote for what you want and not get it
than to vote for what you don't want and get it."
--Eugene V. Debs

We are being force fed candidates.

When our representatives will not even
get behind censure, then they are NOT
representing me.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. There is the continued misrepresentation of the facts.
Duckworth was not picked by Washington. Of course elected Illinois Democratic party leaders work in Washington. As elected leaders of the of the IDP they have an understanding of the District and a responsibility to expand the Party and win elections. Duckworth was also endorsed by a number of labor and women's rights groups. Anti-war groups have every right to campaign and vote for those they agree with. If they withhold from electing the Democratic candidate over the formula for withdrawal they also face a GOP agenda that will likely result in more incursions and a continued presence in Iraq with permanent bases.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. the point is Emanuel and the DCCC interfered in the race
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 12:40 PM by welshTerrier2
i think it's great that labor and women's rights groups and anti-war groups and all kinds of other people got involved in the race ...

but the party should not interfere prior to a primary ...

and if you want to put your emphasis on blaming the anti-war movement for not supporting Democrats, blame away ... i prefer to think the Party should do a better job representing this wing of the party ... i'm willing to meet to discuss the issue; i'm willing to seek common ground - i don't see any responsiveness or flexibility from those in office ...

if they want my support and my vote, i'm listening ... right now, i see no inclusiveness whatsoever ...
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Are you sure the DCCC interfered?
Rahm is Committee Chair but he is also an elected Illinois Democratic Party leader. Which capacity was he serving? I'm not sure myself. I've seen so much misinformation in this campaign that I've become skeptical of most. Is it interference if the Rep from the neighboring CD is asked by a Senator from the state to support a candidate? It strikes me that the hatred for Rahm and the DLC was used as a tool to smear Duckworth's credibilty. The problem is this is now carried beyond the primary. Who should take responsibility for that?
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. i have not commented on Duckworth's credibility
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 01:22 PM by welshTerrier2
as for wearing two hats, Emanuel, as head of the DCCC, had an obligation not to interfere ...

want to discuss Schumer pushing Casey in Pa BEFORE THE PRIMARY?

is it just possible there's a pattern here?

what i see more and more is a party that puts "winning" ahead of issues ... some may agree with this strategy ... i don't ... and i don't think that this false pragmatism is the way to win either ...
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. You are from Mass, right? What are the issues of the Illinois 6th CD?
You are absolutely 100% entitled to your opinion and its welcome, but when you complain of putting "winning" ahead of the issues can you tell me what the issues are that matter to the people of the 6th CD of Illinois.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. you apparently are not hearing my message
you want me to focus solely on the 6th district and that is NOT what i've been writing about ...

so i will focus on my issues; not yours ...

do you think Democrats should want the support of as many voters as they can get?

do you think the national party should involve itself heavily in local races BEFORE THE PRIMARIES when there is more than one viable Democratic candidate?

do you think pushing pro-veteran candidacies is more important than considering where they stand on the issues?

do you think the party should push anti-choice candidates at anytime?

do you understand that the race in your district had national implications and that many of us will not support Democratic candidates who continue to vote for more funding for bush's war?

you want to have your little race all to yourself in your little district; fine ... i'm talking about the national implications of that race and others; i'm talking about a party that continues to ignore the anti-war movement at its own peril; and i'm talking about a party that continues to bury its head in the sand and ignore the risks and the political consequences of doing so ...
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. In the 6th CD the issues important to those voters should matter. . .
. . .all politics are local.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #63
78. " the 6th CD of Illinois"
of which Duckworth was not even a resident.

Seems to me like residency ought to be some sort of pre-requisite.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. Duckworth supports parental notification laws
a fact that Emily's List seems to have conveniently overlooked!
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
108. I do not like Emily's List. They do not seem to be very effective.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
83. I wouldn't mind near so much..
... the national party butting in and offering support pre-primary, if the national party could find it's own ass with both hands.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
49. Cegalis was wonderful on Flanders. (N/T)
The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.


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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #49
111. I'm Sorry I missed it..
Was Cegalis on Laura Flanders After the Election, or before?
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
34. I think Cegelis will strongly support Duckworth
it will probably take some time to get over the loss, but I'm sure she badly wants to have a dem in that seat.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. I think my point of what is going on can be shown by a search at Kos.
Use the "tag" search for Duckworth or Cegelis. Almost the same thoughts and words.

The words are not really said, but the feeling is that is the responsibility of Cegelis and supporters to win the general election.

It isn't. It is up to the candidate to win the race and make the others want to get on board. If the blame game continues to be used, it might be self-fulfilling.

We have the same thing going on here, and it is going to be hard to decide what to do.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. DCCC backs a candidate that doesn't even live in the district
and defeat a grassroot candidate by virtue of their money and the Beltway personalities that backed the insider's candidate, and they still expect people that supported one of their own to march in lockstep in support of the winner. DCCC fumbled the ball with Paul Hackett and his supporters and now they are fumbling the ball with the Cegelis supporters.

I am glad I live in a working class district that is represented by a Democratic congresswoman!
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. "DCCC fumbled the ball with Paul Hackett"
The DCCC had nothing to do with Hackett it was the DSCC one is led by Rahm Emanuel the other is led by Chuck Schumer but if you need to believe that to make you feel better, go right ahead.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. DSCC, DCCC - Senate/House - The point remains the same...eom
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #67
86. Irony is such a wonderful thing....
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
55. Why are the Winners Whining ?
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 01:00 PM by radio4progressives
The logic here is just plain laughable if not outright weird.

Duckworth, with the full backing of the party apparatus and their biggest guns eek out a slim victory now she expects her opponent to rally around her? Are you kidding? and now because Cegalis doesn't want to be put through a gloating victory party breakfast, under the ruse of "unity" she's being attacked?

:wtf:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. People need to step back from arguing about these women personally
Mostly I agree with your take on this issue R4P, though my prior loyalties were probably more divided between these women than yours (I chose Cegelis but respected Duckworth). I have real concerns about how the national party choses candidates to back, but I would hate to see all the anger about that pinned onto Tammy Duckworth personally right now. That is NOT to say that I think that's going on in any large measure right now, but if the bitterness over this race continues that will probably be an inevitable side consequence of that. Duckworth won, and those who support her I don't think are serving her cause in the slightest by saying or implying negative things about Cegelis right now. I understand how some may want to defend Duckworth if she gets attacked, but that's a different matter.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Allow me to Recipricate..
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 02:40 PM by radio4progressives
Not living in the district, (or the state of Illinois for that matter)I didn't have a dog in this fight, except for the principles of process and meaningful direct representation.. I opposed the notion of bringing in a candidate from out of the district/region to run against a candidate who was from all the reports i read, was doing a yeoman's job minus party apparatus... (imagining what might have been, had she the support of the big guns from Washington is not difficult to fathom)

And I am curious why they didn't bring Duckworth into a different district or office that could have used a candidate of her qualifications, where no Democratic contender existed. (Why run one candidate against another in the same party for the same office?) I haven't seen that question raised, and why wasn't that the strategy of the party leaders instead, particularly in this case?

In any event, the Washington Elite made certain decisions based on their own agenda and all that might entail, apart from the obvious wrt the need to regain control of Congress.

Gloating and playing the guilt trip card in the name of party unity is at the height of hypocrisy on this particular situation. Functionaries need to understand that they have absolutely no moral high ground here - and their provocation for people look harshly upon Cegalis because she isn't interested in joining the Duckworth chorus at this juncture is an arrogant position to say the least and is certainly uncalled for, which appears to me the point of posting this article here.

I join you in suggesting that people need to step back arguing about these women personally. I saw Duckworth on the tube the other night and she seems ok.. i don't know her, I've only read about her here.

I haven't seen Cegalis either, but i know her positions, and they're ones i certainly support, and so therefore i support the community who backed Cegalis, naturally.

But attacking Cegalis for not signing on to Duckworth's bandwagon does nothing to promote party "unity". Indeed it is provacative, and may help to fuel a brewing movement calling to end business as usual, and all that implies including more and more "third" partys vis a vis a very different "third way" than what the DLC tried to create years ago, to echo Joe Trippi's remarks on C-Span recently.





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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
72. Thank you!!!!!
That's exactly what I was wondering. Duckworth WON. Good for her, yay for her supporters, high fives all around and all that.

But these forced "unity" events are BS. Give Cegelis (and her supporters) some time to get over a very disappointing loss, and when the time is right, they'll likely throw their support strongly behind the Dem nominee.

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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
70. SHE JUST LOST A RACE!!! GIVE HER A FEW DAYS TO RECOVER!
Geez...she just lost a race she spent three years on. Let her have a chance to recover from it.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. That's what a unity breakfast is about.
Recovering. If you run as a Democratic candidate it is assumed that's what you are. The winner has been characterized as a DINO and one can only imagine the reaction of Cegelis supporters, and rightly so, if Duckworth had done this. This is not about gloating, this is about Democrats with a common goal, defeating the GOP. Some of us who have sought a fair contest for Duckworth have been described as functionaries and hacks for the DC insiders. I know in my case nothing could be further from the truth. But, then again, truth has been ignored in most debates and comments about this race. I would have fully supported Cegelis had she won in spite of the venom. It isn't about me, it isn't about PDA or DFA, it isn't about Duckworth or Cegelis. The unity breakfast is about Democrats coming together to defeat the GOP.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Then they should have done later instead right away. That is
too painful.

I was a candidate and I know how hard it was to pick up the pieces afterwards.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. It was scheduled for several days after the election.
The GOP gov candidates held theirs the morning after. As I wrote these are a traditional means of following up a contested race. You know when you enter a race that you may have opponents and if it is a contested race there will be a winner and a loser.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. since when is canceling not an option?
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. It also was for two other CDs in the County.
The purpose is to show the opposition that they face a unified front. It's unlikely that a number of separate organizations would be put off for one group. It is optional and Cegelis made a choice. It's too bad that the GOP was the beneficiary of that choice.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. I believe some of you are setting Cegelis up for blame.
She has not even had time to get her breath. She made it clear on the Laura Flanders show that the "fall in line" rhetoric was not going to work that well, suggested the campaign try other ideas.

There is an air of arrogance to the words that Clinton coined..."fall in line." Like there is no choice but what the party says there is.

You guys here at DailyKos need to back off a little and take some pressure off. Give some time.

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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. It would be hard to blame Cegelis.
The GOP turned out 60% of the total 6th CD in the Primary. The three Dems combined were at 40%. The last election with Kerry as a draw only returned about 44% for Cegelis. This is a daunting task to defeat the GOP. It would be as absurd to blame Cegelis as it would have been to blame Duckworth if Cegelis won the primary and lost in the general. Of course I firmly believe there would have been some of that. That is often the nature of many losing campaigns to blame others instead of taking responsibility for their loss and moving on. That is because it is human nature. Of course everyone is free to make a choice. In this case it's DEM or GOP.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. I will not blame Cegelis. . .
. . .Tammy's fate is in her own hands. If Cegelis wants to sit on the side lines so be it, but this is Tammy's race and its up to her and her team to win it.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #81
110. Now I'm really confused!
How did the GOP benefit from a Duckworth Unity Breakfast?

:popcorn:
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. If so, then it's too soon to have it.
There is a lot of hurt on both sides of this race. Everyone needs time to cool down, and then focus on defeating the Republican.

Real unity will come in its own time. Trying to force it while the hurt is still stinging is counterproductive.

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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #71
109. So Tell Us, How did the Unity Breakfast Go?
Was it fun? :popcorn:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
79. It was a close race.
An election that close makes recovery more difficult. It is up to Cegelis to pull up her socks when she is done licking her wounds, and the timing of the unity event was perhaps too close to the loss.

My concern here is the seething resentment that continues to fester here at DU, and that doesn't bode well for the multitude of races that will be held across the country. It seems people choose up sides according to how they perceive the establishment versus the little guy (progressive ?) meme, losing sight of the bigger and more important issue, kicking the shit out of the Republicans in the fall.

In elections, somebody wins, somebody loses. Mourning a loss is understandable. But at some point people need to acknowledge it's over. Rather than perpetuating the incessant turmoil within the party - which I have no doubt is the real reason some are here at DU - it would be nice if people exhibited just a teensy bit more maturity in processing disappointment.

Flame away. :)


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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #79
93. no flames ... just strong disagreement ...
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 08:54 PM by welshTerrier2
don't think i don't respect you AK ... i do ...

but look at what you're peddling here ...

you want to call a commitment to the anti-war issue immaturity ... you want to tell us how to "process disappointment" ... and you want to argue that we're "losing sight of the bigger and more important issue" ...

i won't go further than this ... those who push that point of view will not be getting my support or my vote ... the party has turned its back on the anti-war movement ... you can criticize us all you want to; that's your right ...

if you want our support, your approach is NOT going to work ... the Party needs to find common ground with supporters of Cegelis locally and the anti-war movement nationally ... the key word is "inclusiveness" ... if your pitch to us is "shut up and help us beat republicans", it's not going to win many of us over ... we want to beat republicans too; but we want to do it with candidates who are more responsive to what we value ... there's plenty of room for compromise; there is no room for having either those who see things as you do or the party insult us ...
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. I'm not trying to solicit support
Edited on Sun Mar-26-06 09:30 PM by AtomicKitten
for anything other than giving due time to process disappointment and then moving on. I do not view this as two-sided opposition within the party but rather a difference viewing where idealism and pragmatism collide. I strongly prefer more progressive candidates, but at the same time I realize there are all kinds of primaries like this that lie ahead and I just hate seeing the same spirit-crushing process repeated over and over again. I'm just a practical person and I mean no disrespect.

On a personal note, I have a 19-year-old son and I wish you could imagine yourself in my shoes these past few years worried sick about the prospect of he being called up as cannon fodder. I have a personal stake in the anti-war movement. IMO our only differences lie in strategy, not in ideology.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. nicely said ...
i understand where you're coming from ...
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #93
113. Everyone in the Democratic Party is anti-war. n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
82. It is the OP that posted his personal flame war headline!
Had the OP posted this story in LBN, he would have been bound by LBN rules on headlines. The actual headline is:

6th District Democrats rallying to defeat Roskam

All the story said about Cegelis was:

Scott attended but Cegelis who unsuccessfully had taken on Hyde two years ago did not.

Bridget Dooley, who worked on the Cegelis campaign, said Cegelis had a family commitment and could not attend.

http://www.dailyherald.com/news/dupagestory.asp?id=1711...


Yet the OP appears to be hell-bent in giving his own interpretation to Cegelis's absence. Why? A better question, why does the OP use an incendiary title for this thread, and proceed to attack those that take offense to his interpretation of events?

Reading the entire story in the Daily Herald, one gets the impression of Democrats united, and no one is disparaging Cegelis, so why does the OP decide to disparage Cegelis and "stir up the pot" so to speak?

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #82
106. Maybe Cegalis had a family committment....
...and could not attend, just like the story says. :shrug:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. I think that is exactly it!
Family comes first! No one quoted in the story said anything disparaging about Cegelis, or made a big deal of Cegelis not being there. It was a big friendly reunion of supporters of all candidates.

Only the OP made a big production out of it, going as far as interjecting his/her own opinions in the thread title.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
120. of IL-06. Beyond winners and losers (The low turn out issue)
Thursday March 23, 2006

Cluster&%$

Let me make clear what I think happened in the 6th if the below post on the reduction in Democratic voters doesn't make it clear.

Three candidates--all people I think are nice people ran in three different ways. One spent $700,000. One tried to bring in new Democrats. One essentially organized for 3 years.

The grand total of that effort? 4,000 fewer votes in the primary than 2 years ago. Not only did they not make the pie larger, the divided it up between themselves and subtracted 4,000 people.

That takes some talent on all their parts.

Everyone complaining about the other camps needs to drop it now and figure out how they screwed up themselves and there are plenty of things to point towards that were problematic. I can start going through them one after another for days on end, and trust me, no campaign would be happy by the time I'm done.

With SEIU and other unions backing her, Tammy couldn't get out any more voters than in the past even with all the resources she could need. If you can't use the money to get people to the polls, there isn't going to be much of a contest in November.

http://www.archpundit.com/archives/013471.html
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
135. It's the same 5 or 6 posters who always dominate these threads
I know that many participate, but a handful dominate, and it's been this way on DU for weeks if not months. Yes there are real and important issues involved, but for whatever reason in my opinion this has become extremely personal for a few people. I think it is foolish and even dangerous for anyone to generalize about the "Cegelis camp" or "Duckworth camp" based on some continually recycled personal bitterness being expressed on these DU threads.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #135
137. It reminds me of the unrestrained glee that some DUers had
when prowar Denise Majette, a Zell Miller protege, defeated Cynthia McKinney. Majette took issue with McKinney's claim that Bush was lying about Iraq and 9/11, this at a time when there was a big debate as to whether Bush and Blair's claims about WMDs were even true.

McKinney turned out to be 100% correct!

Majette's ambition got a better hold of her, and she didn't get all of the white votes that she got against McKinney when she ran for the Senate.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #137
141. Some of the DU dynamics might be the same
but Duckworth is no Majette, that's part of what's so sad about all of this. By continuing to snipe at Cegelis and some of her supporters, a few people at DU are making it harder for many Cegelis supporters to step back, feel their deep disappointment about losing this primary, a principled disappointment because they fervently anticipated the prospect of Cegelis's strong voice representing them in Congress, and then regroup around the realization that Duckworth is a personally honorable woman who is lights year better than her Republican opponent on virtually every issue.

We all need John Conyers to Chair the Judiciary Committee in 2007, and we have to elect Democrats to seats like this one in order to make that happen.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #137
147. You're kidding ! DU Supported Majette over McKinney? (!)
I'm Shocked ! Shocked! (not)

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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
143. Bottom line: The DCCC and Duckworth damn well better win in November.
n/t
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
151. gotta keep your precious flame war going, eh?
n/t
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