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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:26 AM
Original message
The RoadMap to Impeachment: "Violence" is The Answer
I've been asked to create a (votable) thread for this.

It is my reaction to the Harper's Magazine Impeachment event from Thursday night. I found the discussion there brought a specific problem into sharp relief:

We all know what needs to happen, but we seem at a loss for "how to make in so."



The original thread is here.

=====
From Mr. Conyers's blog:

We had a rousing and informative evening last night in New York at the impeachment forum hosted by Harpers Magazine. ...

There was a lot of discussion about how impeachment should be presented, how we develop more support -- among Members and in the Media, and most importantly, where we go from here...

I have no doubt that not only would we take back the House and the Senate, but that we would be able to hold the Bush Administration accountable for their mistatements, misteps, and yes, their lies...

I think last night was a milestone. It was so gratifying to see all of our hard work in action outside the beltway...

=======


Since I was lucky enough to be in attendance, I want to report that the most "rousing" part of the evening -- bringing the audience to their feet -- was the introduction of Mr. Conyers himself.

And while I'll agree that the event was a milestone, I must also agree with the lukewarm reaction of the Salon reporter. Mainly because there was very little from the panel on what Mr. Conyers identifies in his entry here as most important: "where we go from here."

And this is where I must take issue and be frank; because the "where" is not in question. Mr. Conyers held the "where" in his hand; a special committee to investigate charges. It is the "how" that is in question and "develop more support" is not specific enough to be actionable. While I don't claim to have any magic bullet, I would like to suggest where the discussion was lacking on this issue because I think these failures are pervasive (on the left) and, at least to some degree, correctable.

So is most important "how do we proceed?" No, MOST important is "what do we do about it right now!" And there is a big difference between those 2 phrases.

To illustrate I'll report the fuller context of Mr. Conyers's phrase (above) - "and yes, their lies." There was a well-received question from the audience lamenting that none of the panelists used the word "lied." The point needs to be well taken that we've all been trained to speak (and therefore think) in euphemisms; particularly those who speak publicly. Screaming "imminent conflagration" will not compel a movie house crowd to move to safety.

Former Congresswoman Holtzman illustrated a different failure. She remains convinced that "more information" can solve the problem. When enough people "know," they will rise up. Like many on the left, she refuses to accept the fact that only the "reality-based community" prizes knowledge above belief. We cannot "teach" our way to impeachment.

Mr. Lapham, after reading the Conyers report, has correctly concluded intellectually that there is a "slam dunk" case and that our nation is in peril. Therefore he politely lays the burden to act on the Congress, in their collegial, non-partisan capacity as oath-takers. (Insert your own joke/expletive here.)

Mr. Rattner is pursuing and recommends a "legal" solution. While it may be helpful to have the regime "found guilty" of some crime in some court, he urged to panel to focus on the most easily provable (already proven?) impeachable offense(s). He has published a cogent, precise brief of only the clearest violations. Thereby giving them less to fight back against?!?

And of course the entire evening was peppered to some degree with our usual rationalizations for inaction: "but we'll just get Cheney" -- "we must wait 'till we take the house" -- "what about electoral backlash." Not to mention the lobby talk about futility, being doomed, and confident pronouncements of "never gonna happen."

So, how do we overcome this -- what do we do right now?

Get violent. (Come again?!?) No, not physically violent. Rather intellectually, politically, and rhetorically violent. We are dealing with fascist thugs/cowards and must deal with them and their tactics accordingly. The public and euphemedia must be slapped to attention and our "leaders" and/or the perpetrators must be forced and/or frightened into action and/or surrender.

This violence is in self-defense. These people don't listen to reason. In fact, they pride themselves on their preference for "belief." Labels like theocracy, monarchy, totalitarian, and authoritarian are irrelevant -- it's all some form of fascism; the conviction that some minority has a right to rule the majority. Whether it's based on divine right, a master race, a family dynasty, or a power theory makes absolutely no difference.

It is Anti-American. And it needs to fought, not managed.

We need to make "violent use" of whatever means we have.
  • For nearly all of us that only means contact with "leaders" (in person, faxing, etc) and the euphemedia (emails, calls, LTTEs).
  • For bloggers, that means public assault (not polite differing). Particularly with those whose silence makes them complicit with this ongoing treason. (See democrats.com -- just replicate.)
  • For those with benefit of a larger megaphone, media-related and political "leaders," that means risking the loss of that megaphone -- shouting the unvarnished truth then turning viciously on those who will (euphemistically) try to dismiss and dillute your message.
By ALL these means we must ALL do the same things:
  • We need to banish euphemisms. Period. In fact, we need to employ hyperbole when possible. But since "war crimes," "torture," and "terrorized the nation into war" are merely descriptive, it could be difficult to find hyperbole. We must try our best.

    • The simple fact is that a large segment of the public has been well-trained to ONLY hear such language; and worse to equate such anger/alarm with importance/urgency. Sad? Yes, but we must deal with it as it exists.
    • If you find yourself trying to be polite or subtle, or even just witty, stop it and just be blunt.
    • The regime DID NOT "sidestep," "ignore," "go around," or "flaunt." They DID NOT "overreach," "cross the line," or "display hubris." They BROKE THE LAW. They VIOLATED SWORN TREATIES. They SHREDDED THE CONSTITUTION. They COMMITTED WAR CRIMES.

  • We need to up the ante. Make them an offer they dare not refuse. Threaten. Blackmail. Whatever ugly word you want to put on it.

    • We must hand over for international prosecution those whose actions have warranted it. The torture and war crimes charges are "above our pay grade." We can expect zero moral standing in the world if we do not abide by the treaties these criminals have violated in our names. Redemption of our National Soul demands nothing less.
    • We will take the money back. Yes, the "tax kickbacks." Yes, the crony contracts. Yes, the not-so-blind trusts. Every penny we can find.
    • We will reverse ALL acts of this never-legitimate regime. All appointments. All legislation. All Executive Orders. We need to cleanse the social fabric of their contamination.

  • We must resolve to never stop. We will never "get over it." We must loudly declare that we will have our children take up this challenge if necessary. This will be our legacy.

    • Perhaps the largest applause (save Mr. Conyers intro) was in reaction to the statement that you don't have to still be in office to be impeached. We need to make it clear that this goes beyond election cycles. There is no short term attention span to hide in. We will impeach and convict them posthumously if necessary.
    • This is already true with Bully Bill Rhenquist. We must make clear that ALL crimes against the nation will be accounted for. This includes both stolen elections. The Felonious Five and all other perpetrators of anti-democratic, thereby Anti-American, acts will be accused, tried, and punished. No matter how long it take or how many resources it requires.

  • We cannot get lost in "legalisms," "strategies," or our usual "neuroses."

    • We waste far too much time and effort falling victim to "paralysis by analysis." It is irrelevant at this point what any ultimate impeachment charges may be lodged. ALL crimes and misdemeanors of the regime will need to be brought to bear. From the first Stolen Election to the latest Indian nuclear "free pass" debacle/PR stunt.
    • We must stop worrying about what "they do." Will they change the rules? Will there be backlash? Will they start jailing people? This obsession with the perpetrators is akin to a "battered syndrome." We must really let the chips fall where they may.
    • We must make EVERYTHING about impeachment. Don't be "anti-war," demand impeachment over the "criminal war." Don't be "pro-environment," demand impeachemnt over "defecating on our environment." Don't be "fiscally responsible," demand impeachment for "looting the nation." You get the idea -- don't you "issue wonks?"

    That's it. Thanks for reading this far.

    Now, let get on with it and FINISH THIS THING.

    There really is no other moral or patriotic option.

    ----
    www.january6th.org

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iconocrastic Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Same as filibuster until we win the House. n/t
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Simply not true
There is no way to know what is the "easier job."

Taking back the House seems quite possible, but all we need to do now is bring 15 House Rs back over to reality. Then the ball is rolling downhill. The court of public opinion (and subpoena power) kicks in.

We can "offer" them Pres. Haster now or Pres. Pelosi later.

We can make it clear that we'll be using the same bush tactics against them as soon as we get the WH back.

We really need very few of them to "see the wisdom" of tossing these neofascist, monarchists over the side.


---
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I agree and have been doing my best for years.
Great post. K&R.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. I agree... and that's why I wrote "Open Season on the White House"
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 01:41 AM by stevietheman
http://democracy2.blogspot.com/2006/03/open-season-on-w...

Here's some samples:


Why does this President systematically lie to the American people to cover-up things he pretends he didn't know about?


and


As bad as everything is getting with this congenital liar and sinister actor, why don't we all drop our normal discord and unite in one singular call to our elected representatives: Impeach the lying bastard or lose your jobs in November!

Let us allow Bush this one accomplishment: Uniting us in his own political demise.


I'm certainly not pulling any punches any longer.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Good stuff
We just need to spread it around more.

--
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. We Need A Leader, Or Two!
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you and kick.
The stakes are beyond polite and DLC framed arguments and candidates.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. simple enough
if you want to hurt these fascists in the deepest recesses, hit them in the pocketbook.

withhold your $$.

bleed them dry.
dp
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. K & R
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Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. recommended. nt
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. "We need to cleanse the social fabric of their contamination."
Thank you Senator, for bringing redemption and fiery hope, more than you know. So good to read you again.

:bounce:
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I disagree with the word Social...
We must cleans the political Fabric, the Federal fabric, but let the Social fabric care for itself, as it should. In my view the social fabric is the court of public opinion, and not cleansable from the top as teh political fabric is. The social fabric can be cleaned only one opinion at a time.

-Hoot
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. The warp and woof of social integration have been shredded
Our sense of interconnectedness unravelled.

Those "one opinion at a time" individuals fall through the holes..........................................................

Maybe we need patches.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. AGREE! IMPEACH!
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 08:37 AM by jarnocan
Make stickers, write letters, make signs!!! Call! ?????
because our www.Worldcantwait.net http://Impeachbush.org -pay whatever you want for lawn signs.
I will say almost all protests now- everyone yells impeach! Times are different, for sure!
Impeach for peace, justice, our environment and humanatarian reasons!
In order to restore our democracy, and fix our fraudulent election problems; We must insist on Investigations, Prosecutions, Impeachment and Punishment. http://vvlobbydays.blogspot.com

http://jarnocan.blogspot.com /
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. You got it ("Impeach for peace, justice, our environment. . .")
Whenever ANYONE argues that we need to focus no some "issue" other than impeaching Bush and Cheney, and accusing and punishing their co-conspirators, remind them that we can make NO progress on ANYTHING until we purge the fascists from our government.

Some may argue that focus on global warming or other crucial problems are more urgent than impeachment, but when we turn all our attention and energy to impeachment we are not minimizing our other commom problems. (If we render the planet uninhabitable, it doesn't much matter whether America was a dictatorship or a constitutional democracy.) Impeachment is first and foremost because Americans can only have a role in creating rational global and domestic policy if we have a functioning constitutional democracy capable of responding to, enacting and enforcing our collective will.

There are many ways to advance impeachment while fighting against the actions they take.

For example, during the fight to stop Alito's nomination, well-meaning people muddied the waters by labeling him "too conservative," "a threat to Roe" or "a threat to environmental protections." Every one of these labels skirts the truth about
  1. The "doctrines" he subscribes to (i.e., the fascist fantasies he invokes to convince himself -- and us -- that the Bush Syndicate crimes are not crimes) or
  2. His role in the fascist invasion of our government (i.e., putting Alito on the Supreme Court is a GIANT leap forward in their march to render the Constitution we established for the United States of America permanently null and void, and make their vision of a Stalinist Unitary Authoritarian Executive a reality.


When we took up the fight to reject Alito, we would have been far more effective if we had focused SOLELY on rejecting the lunacy of a Stalinist unitary authoritarian executive in America. Alito is a co-conspirator in their treasonous effort to nullify our constitution. Confronting the nation with the criminal violations of our laws and our most fundamental constitutional principles would have moved us down the road to impeachment in a way that fighting to save Roe simply cannot do.

When enough anti-fascist Americans see that the fight to impeach IS the fight to preserve Roe (or overturn their catastrophic tax-kickbacks or whatever) scattered efforts will come together in a way that is more powerful than anything this nation has ever seen. The tiny "lock-step" right won't know what hit them when the anti-fascist majority brings their vast resources to bear on ONE thing.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. NOW is the time to take back the people's house!!
not november, now. find the nearest primary fight between the party hack and the progressive, and get in there and fight!!!! you know there is one out there for you.
GGGOOOOO NNOOOWWWW!!
like this one.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. good work senator...thanks...kand r...nt
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. K & R
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. These are my favorite lines ......

"We must hand over for international prosecution those whose actions have warranted it. The torture and war crimes charges are "above our pay grade." We can expect zero moral standing in the world if we do not abide by the treaties these criminals have violated in our names.


Redemption of our National Soul demands nothing less.

We will take the money back. Yes, the "tax kickbacks." Yes, the crony contracts. Yes, the not-so-blind trusts. Every penny we can find.
We will reverse ALL acts of this never-legitimate regime. All appointments. All legislation. All Executive Orders. We need to cleanse the social fabric of their contamination.
"
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Thanks for highlighting the "Trip to the Hague"
This is a point that I think can really resonate, even with the most cynical and apathetic.

We are in fact deciding whether or not to harbor war criminals here.

The UN commission on Gitmo has spoken. And while we can carp all we want, perception is reality.

We anti-fascists just have to be willing to play this "trump card."

Or be prepared to explain to our grandchildren why we didn't.

--
www.january6th.org
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. And how will we explain not protesting the stolen election(s)?
"Or be prepared to explain to our grandchildren why we didn't."
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. The sooner one admits that failure the better for all
There aren't many of us who can say they did what they could about the election thefts.

There are more that woke up in '04 than did in '00. And Senator Boxer herself, as part of her historic stand, expressed her regret for her failure to stand up on January 6th, 2001 -- the day the contract known as the US Constitution was put into breach (and remains inert).

But it's never too late to start making amends. Gore, Kerry, or any of the others who were derelict in the duty to challenge the unlawful electors from Florida and Ohio can do as Sen. Boxer did, come clean with those they failed.

In fact, it is the only way they can lay any legitimate claim leadership again.

The DC/Euphemedia Analstocracy can try to happy-talk us into Hilary all they want. Unless and until she owns up there will still be conditions in place for another "dean-like" campaign from the outside, supported by the principled base. Actually, true front-runner status is Barbara Boxer's just for the asking.

It took great effort (and money) for them to stop Gov. Dean last time. Perhaps they can do it again.

But I'm betting against them.

--
www.january6th.org
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. I want to believe you
But after the 2000 Selection, by 2004 people really need ta getta clue. The week after Nov. 2, the Euphemedia blackout sealed the bogus deal, including editorials demonizing the public for having any doubts. Even progressives and "even on DU" people were talking about "next time" in January-- rather than screaming about Jan. 6, 2005 or Nov. 2, 2004. (DU folks were hard at work with charts and graphs but the non-statistical folks were left hangin....)

This resulted in a Euphementality that Everything Is Okay :) Nothing To Worry About This Is Normal and all the death, destruction, etc. has followed that in-action.

Meanwhile, no one is really sure there will be a Next Time.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. It may have seemed worse
...in '04 than it was in '00, but there was a real difference for the better.

It was the non-statistical folks, a small subset of them, that succeeded in getting Sen. Boxer to join the formal objection. And even among those who "moved on," there was a recognition of system failure. They saw the 10-hour poll tax lines on TV. They didn't need the Civil Right Commission to say it was unlawfully racist again.

Many accepted "defeat," but not that things were OK. Even the repubs were uncelebratory.

You're quite right about the uncertainly about next time. But even on that front there are some good signs. The unauditable machines are on the run. Gov. Dean has "staffed" the entire country and one of their jobs will be election watchdogs. Election "reform" has finally made it onto the Dems national agenda. Instead of joking about it like Gore, Kerry has acknowledged the '04 theft (albeit with a public recant).

Perhaps most importantly though, the essence of the "dean people" continues to expand and succeed. The euphemedia fumbles to describe the new "noisy" part of the Dem/left base with inaccurate terms like netroots, progressive grassroots, objectionist left, and others. But they know we're here and we've achieved "not negligable" status.

(It's probably a good thing that they can't quite get a handle on these people who remain determined to take their party and country back from those who limit their world view to the confines of the beltway bubble.)

The victories they've had against us are short-term efforts, stop gaps. No one seriously argues anymore that the bushkid actually won Florida and/or the nation in 2000. That illegitimacy is commonly accepted. The same will be true for 2004. It may be already. Our record of truth is there for the long haul. Their record of belief is a temporary house of cards.

And we could reach a tipping point at any time. A point where all our efforts start rolling downhill, energized by the momentum of their moral ascendency. Any one of these new scandals could be the last straw: the ports, the spying, even the Pat Tillman story.

We may have broken their grip already. We only see the effects some time after it happens.

--
www.january6th.org



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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. and ** Tax Kickbacks** (should always be "Tax KICKBACKS" never "Tax CUTS")
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 06:26 PM by pat_k
"Tax Cuts" ought to be purged from our language. They want to make the "Bush Tax Kickbacks" permanent. They aren't cutting taxes; they are lining the pockets of the powerful with tax kickbacks.

Every time we hear someone say "Bush Tax Cuts," let's try to set them straight. (And when we catch ourselves saying "Cuts" we have to write "Bush Tax Kickbacks" 100 Times.)
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Time to grab this country by the reigns and steer it where WE want it to!
:yourock:
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick+ How the fight against stolen elections can feed the fight to impeach
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 04:19 PM by pat_k
A note to those who are fighting for our right to have confidence in our elections (which is embodied in the principle of consent):

As we fight for our right to have confidence in our elections, we advance the march to impeachment if we:
  • Challenge rationalizations that support their fascist view of the law.

  • Seek to expose the theft of the 2000 and 2004 elections and go after the perpetrators. personally.
If, instead of accusing the thieves of their crimes and demanding they be punished, you are focused on "making sure it doesn't happen again" you are supporting the pretense that the fascist are capable of responding to democratic political pressure.

When we support the pretense of their legitimacy with "politics and usual" efforts - whether on election reform or something else -- we are just putting more bricks in the wall of our national denial.

We stay in the fight, but we must give up "politics as usual" weapons. The original post shows the way.


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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
22. K & R nt
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CarlSheeler4U Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. Find and support real leaders who are after change and for people
I think we all can agree that Democracy is not a spectator sport.

As a Marine veteran and candidate for US Senate (D-RI), I have
struggled to keep two primary issues in the forefront of the easily
distracted public: (1) We're still in Iraq and people are
dying. Iran is the next real risk and could lead to the draft. (2)
People Died because the President Lied. True for Iraq. True for
Katrina. He should be impeached. I am assisting Congressman John
Conyers (D-MI) efforts and have challenged the RI General Assembly to
send a joint resolution to the US House Floor, which has to be
expeditiously heard per procedure.

Many conservative Democrats have too much vested in their incumbency
with few leading the call to the withdrawal of our troops or
aggressively challenging this administration's policies that has
placed privilege of the few over prosperity for the many.

There are so many good organizations. Sometimes they benefit from
synergies of joining forces with others with common goals or common
groups. As mine is a grassroots effort, I need activists and
advocates. I prefer this. I'm accountable and accessible to the
public and not K Street Lobbyists and their special interests who have
gutted our American Dream.

It would be an honor to work with you and your organization(s). I am
working to earn support and endorsements. I am pleased to be endorsed
by the Impeach Bush Coalition.

Ultimately, my most pressing call to action has been to erect and maintain
the first bill board in the US on I-95 that states Be Patriotic Impeach Bush
with our Constitution in the background. This has been a lightning rod
throughout the blogosphere. Like most things it needs to be an ember
that is stoked. A copy of the bill board and Daily Kos diary write up
are at: www.carlsheeler.com

and http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/19/1730/42036 and

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/9/3407/09827

I have called on people I know to reach out to just ten people asking
them to do the same outreach. I am determined to keep that beautiful
bill board of hope up until Bush is Impeached and our troops are united
with their families. I'm asking everyone for a small $17.76 or $20.06
contribution or, if you're able, each month until the elections.

Thank you for allowing me to share. Let me know your own thoughts, too.

Semper fi' (Always faithful)

Carl Sheeler, US Senate
Democrat, not aristocrat!

Sheeler for US Senate
www.carlsheeler.com
592 Hopkins Hill Road
West Greenwich, RI 02817-2562
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durtee librul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Where is the link to donate?
I will gladly send you a donation for your billboard. You may also want to add on the bottom that it has been paid for BY THE PEOPLE and not the ELITE.

I sent an email to Jack Cafferty and Lou Dobbs inviting them to a 'tea party' to be held in the Baltimore harbor to let King Geroge we don't appreciate him anymore than our forefathers appreciated his predecessor, the first King George.

Who knows, maybe the longshoreman who work at a 'foreign' port could help.

This country needs to wake up or as one of the other posts suggested, be prepared to explain it to our grandchildren so they can explain it to THEIR grandchildren.

IMPEACH NOW with a one way trip to the Hague...he can sit in the box with Saddam. (yes, I know Saddam is not at the Hague...but Milosevich is)
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CarlSheeler4U Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Right at website. It would be heaven to know we can get people
to maybe have one less meal out and help.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. Impeach Now!
:applause: :kick: :thumbsup: :hi:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
27. Great post-agree 100%!
We've all seen the tip toeing going on around here and elsewhere for far too long!

Things to remember:

The regime DID NOT "sidestep," "ignore," "go around," or "flaunt."
They DID NOT "overreach," "cross the line," or "display hubris."

They BROKE THE LAW.
They VIOLATED SWORN TREATIES.
They SHREDDED THE CONSTITUTION.
They COMMITTED WAR CRIMES."



Don't be "anti-war," demand impeachment over the "criminal war."
Don't be "pro-environment," demand impeachemnt over "defecating on our environment."
Don't be "fiscally responsible," demand impeachment for "looting the nation."

"We must make EVERYTHING about impeachment."





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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
28. Step 1 in solving EVERY serious problem we face is to impeach Bush and Ch
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 05:39 PM by pat_k
When a corporate leadership team led by a criminal CEO is embezzling, the board does not waste time trying to change this or that company policy. They accuse the criminals of their crimes, boot them out, determine the extent of the damage, and demand punishment. Offering plans to the criminals and beseeching them to be good is simply out of the question.

OP has it right. The first step to solving EVERY serious problem we face as a nation is to impeach Bush and Cheney. (For an example of turning a seemingly unrelated topic to impeachment, see this post.)

Related post -- #19 above.

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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. Perhaps the best post I have seen on DU...
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 07:06 PM by Iowa
As an underdog who, on a personal level, has taken on arrogant, entrenched, self-serving, hostile, corrupt systems and won, no truer words have been spoken. And I agree with you that physical violence should NEVER be implied or contemplated. It's a sure way to lose.

Your post got me to thinking about my past battles... and in retrospect, these are things that worked:

-- Choose battles very carefully. Take on the truly important ones.
-- Be right.
-- Attack - don't defend; offense - never defense.
-- Always speak the truth. Act ruthlessly toward opponents who don't.
-- Fight to win. Don't fight to make a point or to educate.
-- Make it personal.
-- Isolate individuals from the herd and go after them.
-- Attack people, not systems or groups.
-- Act, don't threaten.
-- Use words like a sword. Be ruthless.
-- Inflame your opponent - he will lash out and make mistakes. Thrash him with his own words.
-- Wear them down. Persist. Never let go.

Being right is an incredibly powerful weapon against injustice. We owe our current standard of living and our way of life to those who were right, and had what it took to fight. Fighting to win is not pleasant. It's not a game for sissies.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. +When principle demands action, never allow outcome-based rationalizations
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 08:10 PM by pat_k
. . .deter action.

I think most of us have heard some form of "We'll never Impeach Bush-Cheney, so we shouldn't waste our time trying to." (or other outcome-based rationalizations like, "we shouldn't make 'our move' until we have the House" or "it won't fly as a campaign issue, so we'd better keep our mouths shut" or "even if we win, we'll just get Cheney" or "they'll call us names.")

One of the pesky truths we must tell is this:
Every American who recognizes that Bush, Cheney, and their co-conspirators are abusing power and violating our laws must demand impeachment. Members of Congress have an even higher obligation -- they are sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Any member who is aware that crimes against our constitutional democracy have been committed or are in progress, but fails to speak out or act, is not only derelict in their sworn duty, they become complicit.

Even when principle clearly demands action, there are those who rationalize failure to act. Some form of "Can't happen, so don't bother" is perhaps the biggest barrier to action we face on the center/left. It is very deeply ingrained. Over and over we allow appeals to "practicality" and "realism" immobilizes us. (One of the primary reasons Democrats are viewed as wimps is their failure to "fight the good fights," come what may.)

Like any other addiction, this terrible habit reinforces itself. People don't fight for something because "it's futile." The something never happens because people aren't fighting, "proving" the futility.

The "futility" rationalization has been wrong over and over again.

Conventional wisdom assured us (even mockingly) that we would never get a Senator to stand up and object to the Ohio electors on January 6th. No mainstream good government entity even considered fighting to make it happen. They were too busy whipping themselves for losing, when Kerry had in fact won. Citizen lobbyists took up the fight. Mainstream folks didn't jump on board until it was clear that the effort itself was energizing people in a way they might well capitalize on.

Had they acted sooner, who knows? We might have inaugurated President Kerry on January 20th, 2004. And acting "sooner" could have been as early as December 12, 2000. Who knows? We might have inaugurated President Gore on January 20th, 2001.

There are so many other examples.

We like to think of ourselves as reasonable people, but it is not reasonable to guarantee failure with the notion "can't be done, so don't try." That only makes sense if you believe in your own omniscience.

It is time to be truly reasonable and spend our time acting. Even when we don't think anything will work, we must still act when principle demands it.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Yes... Excellent post by pat_k.
"When principle demands action, never allow outcome-based rationalizations to deter action."

Just drawing on my own personal experiences, the battles I won were those where the chances of winning were slim. "Experts" warned against taking them on. Others impacted were afraid to join in - the battles were fought alone. Such battles can be won.

There is no end to the rationalizations one might conjure up to avoid the pain that is sure to come when fighting powerful bullies. But there is really no choice for principled people; failure to act in the face of blatant injustice simply is not an option.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #31
44. That's a great list you've got
You need to get it printed up on business cards with "Things That Work" on one side.

We could all use that list to carry around and keep focussed.

(I've copied it for my personal use. Thanx.)

--
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. No more niceties. No more "disassembling"! They LIE!
:yourock:

I've certainly had enough. I'm ready and willing, sign me up. I am taking individual action and can work in a group also.

:kick:
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. We need to replace those in whom we placed our faith
and who are doing NOTHING to stop the advance of fascism.

Get vocal with your legislators, whether Republican or Democrat. Wage a war of words on THEM. There are things they should be besides rubber stamps.

Enough is enough.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. Agreed - it's not about the high crimes and misdemeanors
Treason - Bribery

heads on pikes!!!
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
37. You've GOT to find different language
I think your ideas are apt -- but using the word "violence" and the admonition to "get violent" is altogether wrong, dangerous, off-putting. It just is. Further, could land you in Gitmo as an "enemy combatant," never to be seen or heard from again.

I patently refuse to "make VIOLENT use" of anything. Vehement use, perhaps. Unrestrained, unremitting, unrelenting use definitly. But not VIOLENT -- not now, not ever.

Funny that Gandhi didn't find that necessary. Funny that Martin Luther King, Jr. advocated just precisely the opposite and won the conscience of a nation.

Back to the drawing board, and fast.

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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. No, I think he made that VERY clear...
The word has several meanings. His meaning had to do with intensity of emotions and convictions. I don't think there's any question about that.





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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Nope, fear is not the answer
If it lands me in Gitmo, that's where I want to be. ("A man who won't die for something is not fit to live." -- MLK)

You either speak and think in euphemisms, or you don't.

You can fill your "patently apt drawing board" with all the "un" verbiage you want.

Or -- you can come out from behind it. (And "Make the injustice visible." -- Ghandi)

---
www.january6th.org
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. There's nothing euphemistic about it
it's called framing. And I rather vote for honest language, anyway. Yours isn't. Yours is sensationalistic, and for no good reason. Fortunately, I don't think you're going anywhere, so I'm not all that concerned.

Violence is the wrong word to employ. Period. No matter what else you're saying, violence is the wrong word to ascribe to ANYthing on our side -- but then, I'm not so sure you ARE on our side. The veterans of the civil rights and peace protests of the 60s and 70s are quick to report that anybody who was a "member" of their group and advocated anything illegal or "violent" was almost always an FBI plant.

If you do find yourself at Gitmo, you can blame your stubborn-headedness, not to mention your simplistic and naive approach to political dissent.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. This is not framing
Framing, while useful, is just a different mechanism of manipulation.

Yes, this is sensationalistic. And I've stated the "good reason."

As for the language being dishonest, you'll have to be more specific about that.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "going anywhere." I do know that I was one of those recommending the use of the meme "mushroom clouds" (to convey the fact that the nation was terrorized into war), long before it started to appear regularly in the public lexicon.

Sorry if that got you concerned.

But I'm not sorry if I appear simple or naive to you.

Perhaps it's because I'm more interested in change than dissent.

(Or is dissent just a euphemism for an actual intent to effect change?)

---
www.january6th.org
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I am almost genetically incapable of euphemism
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 01:35 PM by RazzleDazzle
The closest I come is when I type freakin' or farkin' instead of fucking.

But I'm not sorry if I appear simple or naive to you.

Perhaps it's because I'm more interested in change than dissent.




That -- and I begin to suspect a good bit of the rest of what you've posted -- are just word games. I'm done with you and in fact will seek out how to use the Ignore option.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Perhaps you've mutated?
In an information age war games are word games.

All I'm doing it to suggest we try to win them for change.

--
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
39. "There really is no other moral or patriotic option"
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 11:08 PM by pat_k
A vast majority of our leaders (whether elected officials or citizen advocates) are in denial -- stubbornly carrying on, "politics as usual." (e.g., offering them plans, defining and seeking to sell policies and programs, lobbying for future legislation, or investigations to make sure it -- whatever it is -- doesn't happen again).

Until we break through their denial, they will not be motivated to take up the fight to expose the fascists, drive them out of power, and punish them for their crimes.

When we support the pretense of their legitimacy with "politics and usual" efforts, we are just putting more bricks in the wall of our national denial.

It is time to stop it!

When we confront the reality of our situtation, there really is no other moral or patriotic option.

Facing Facts
<my shot at a summary of the reality Americans need to confront>


The Bush racketeers gleefully conspire to thwart the will of the American people to grab and consolidate the power they believe they have a right to. They view the rest of humanity as pawns to be manipulated to their own ends. They twist reality to justify the atrocities they commit in our name. For them, "We the People" means "We the 'Right' People; We the Powerful and Superior." As superior beings, great wealth is their natural reward. Since no law defined by others applies to them, any avenue that yields their rightful rewards is open for their exploitation.

Their crowning achievement (pun intended) was the theft of the American Presidency in 2001.

On January 6th, 2001, Congress counted the illegal electoral votes from Florida, and thus failed in its duty to preserve the government. Since that date, our Constitution has been in breach.

As long as we permit them to remain in power, our laws and regulations aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The fascist Bush syndicate refuses to enforce and flagrantly violates those laws. We must face facts and stop supporting the pretense of their legitimacy by offering plans to them, or trying to influence their agenda.

Our only option is to fight them at every turn, and ultimately force Bush, Cheney, and their co-conspirators out of power, and punish them for their crimes.

These are the truths we must confront our leaders with -- and we need to do it as citizen lobbyists, in face-to-face dialog, where we can challenge their rationalizations.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
48. It may feel "violent" for Americans to remove the scales from their eyes
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. It is long past time for massive...
civil disobedience in this country. I'm not talking about 10s of thousands marching, I'm talking about 10s of thousands marching to the White House and having a massive sit-it or chaining themselves to the gates.

Civil disobedience is what moved the Civil Rights forwrad, as well as the anti-war and student rights movements. We need to think "Code Pink" but on a massive scale.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
52. The resolution will not be euphemized
:kick:
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