Stop freaking about Kerry endorsing Duckworth

[FreedomAngel82]

Kerry endorsing Duckworth is nothing more than that: an endorsement. He is not telling the people of her district to not have a say in their primary. He's just endorsing her just like Al Gore did Howard Dean during the primaries for the 2004 election. Kerry is supporting all sorts of endorsements of people in the Band of Brothers and other vets running because they went through what he did. And all this nonsense about Tammy's supporters not being "grassroots" is bs. Lots of hardworking people are working for her just like with her opponent. This is NOT the Party choosing who is going to be the winner. This is John Kerry period and the last time I looked Kerry was not a part of DSCC or DCCC.

[Nickster]

1. Still chaps my ass though. Cegelis deserves the backing, she fought like

crazy last time around. This should be her time.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. So that means Kerry should automatically endorse her??

How do you know he doesn't agree with Duckworth more? And because Kerry endorses her doesn't mean a damn thing but that.

[Nickster]

12. Didn't say that he shouldn't back who he wants. Just that PERSONALLY

I feel Cegelis deserves the backing more, she fought like hell the last time and didn't get any attention from anyone, now the "establishment" is jumping in to back a new candidate out of the blue. That's what primaries are for though, the voters decide who should represent the party. I don't have to back Duckworth just because Kerry does though.

[FreedomAngel82]

41. So that means you want to tell people who to endorse?

And that's what I freakin sad! Good grief!

[Ken Burch]

92. It is one more sign that Kerry no longer has any principles or convictions

Whatsoever. Moreover, in backing Duckworth's candidacy as a centrist veteran who says nothing about the war, Kerry is still defending the stragegy that doomed him to defeat in 2004.

No Democrat could support Kerry for president again with a clear conscience after this.

[politicasista]

99. How do you know? Kerry hasn't even announced he is running again n/t

[Nickster]

107. Don't get upset at me. I'm simply saying what I feel about it. Kerry

is a leader in the Dem party and I think Cegelis deserves the party's support. Kerry endorsing her doesn't sit well with me, but that's my opinion. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter. I'm not demanding he endorse anyone, and I don't think he's a bad person for endorsing who he chose. I just think it was a bad decision.

[qazplm]

4. Sorry not how it works

no such thing as "her time", if its "her time" then the primary voters will vote for her, if not they wont.

NO ONE gets a free pass, you have to earn it. So I dont understand the idea that another person who wants to run for office cant because its not their "time".

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Exactly

And the voters might like Duckworth better because of her views. The other opponent is a good one too and a good person but I don't have a say since I don't live in the district. Luckily we don't appear to be having a primary. Another guy was going to run but he decided not to this time around (he has been trying since 1997 so he thought it'd be another guys break).

[Critters2]

17. "I don't have a say, winc I don't live in the district"?

Hell, you might as well chime in...most of the people involved in this don't live in the district--not Kerry, not Emanuel, not lots of those who are opining. In fact, the people in the district are the only ones who haven't made their opinions known.

I'd forgotten what a pess politics is in Illinois. BUt I'm starting to remember.

[Nickster]

13. I get that and I agree the primary voters decide who's time it is.

I guess I just get frustrated when I see good candidates fight like hell in the unwinnable battles and then don't get any help from the party. I think Cegelis deserves at least a longer look then what she got from the party. Doesn't putting in some time on the political frontlines deserve something? Duckworth can run all she wants, just tweaks me that John Kerry is backing her.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. I sent Cegelis some money because I like her. I don't begrudge her

opponent doing all she can to win though, and that includes gathering endorsements. The PDA endorsed Cegelis, and that's good too. Probably because she put in her time running and they support her. That's just the way it is. It's not a matter of fair or unfair, people do what they believe they should.

[sandnsea]

24. Tammy put in time too

She came to the attention of Durbin because of work she was doing on behalf of vets, while recovering from her own injuries at the same time. That work led her to testify to Congress, which led to her running for Congress. It's not like Tammy was sunning on a beach and Durbin just recruited her to run.

[Ken Burch]

93. But she has no positions on anything. Duckworth believes in nothing.

It's what doomed Kerry and it has to doom anyone else who tries it.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Gee so DFA isn't "help"?

John Kerry is backing her because HE wants to. Are you going to bitch about him campaning for other veterans running too? Give me a break!

[RazzleDazzle]

71. what's DFA got to do with it?

[Nickster]

109. I really don't see where the hostility is coming from. I can bitch about

anything I chose to, and so can you. I don't have a problem with him backing veterans in general. Just in this particular case, I feel he made a bad choice. I'd prefer to have the best candidate, not just a veteran.

[radio4progressives]

62. There are Plenty of other Democrats to Get Endorsements from ..

I'm a little bit confused why Kerry's endorsement is more important than other party leaders? Is Cegalis running in Mass?

I thought I read (fact check me here) that Cegalis is running on an anti-Iraq War platform? If that's the case, Cegalis needs an endorsement from anti-Iraq War party leaders, I would think. (?)

What's her position on the Patriot Act? Maybe she should get Feingold's endorsement - If she were in my district I'd be looking at those kinds of issues, in terms of platform and endorsements. Some consistency would be the approach on this, imo.

[Ken Burch]

98. It's "more important" because Kerry used to be a veteran for peace.

There is no reason for him to back a non-dovish, non-progressive veteral. Christ, he might as well endorse McCain.

It's the abandonment of principle on Kerry's part that is so galling, and it is once again the national party's unrelenting
campaign against Christine Cegelis, who has done nothing to deserve having the national party leadership ganging up against her.

The fact that Duckworth lost her legs is meaningless. If it didn't turn her against the war, she's no use to us. No one who is elected as a non-progressive ever becomes progressive and worthwhile later. Centrists are always worthless as Democrats.

[radio4progressives]

138. Kerry tossed his Veteran for Peace aside before 2004 and he never

claimed it back, despite all the opportunity he had to be the principled Veteran for Peace that he was in 1971. So he became the candidate that "voted for it" before he "voted against it", and "we need to stay the course", "reporting for duty" and I'd like John McCain to be my VP if I can manage to persuade him -candidate.

So my thinking is, that Cegalis would do much better without Kerry's endorsement, and to seek endorsements from anti-Iraq war position Democratic Leaders - there are a few i think.. Progressive House Caucus and others - Feingold's support might be a real hot endorsement to have if Cegalis has a platform that is very concerned about our civil liberties and the state of our democracy, the Domestic Spying issue and so on?

I think those kinds of endorsements will really give a leg up big time, i think citizens everywhere are so not impressed with our pro-war dems.. and could potentially catch on like fire... but i don't know Cegalis's platform positions..

[Clarkie1]

123. Duckworth deserves it more.

"Tammy left the service by way of Walter Reed hospital, where she woke up without her legs 10 days after a rocket-propelled grenade exploded in her lap as she flew her helicopter. She spent the next year not only healing her own wounds, but fighting to help her fellow soldiers. She saw first-hand the young veterans who were falling through the cracks of an unprepared health care system, and championed their cause to Congress, earning admiration from both sides of the aisle." -Wes Clark

She's earned it. More than earned it.

[wisteria]

2. Thank you ! n/t

[blm]

6. Kerry is endorsing a GROUP OF VETS as a tactical measure to MARCH on DC

and stay there to govern.

I think it's a great tactic and idea, and I would bet that Dean is completely behind the group's efforts, too.

[radio4progressives]

73. this makes practical and political sense to me..

Is Cegalis a Vet?

[blm]

74. no.... and I don't think Kerry is considering anything more than a forward

movement towards changing the minds of Americans spoonfed lies about weak Dems who loathe the military for the last 4 decades.

I really see it as a pack of Dems who are PROUD to have served but want their voices heard because they are not getting representation at all in the Republican party that controls every isue right now that effects their lives.

These vets asked for the help of the Dem vet leaders like Kerry, Clark and Cleland and they got it. Why anyone would be mad about that is a mystery to me - these vets went all out to get the attention.

[radio4progressives]

79. thanks.. Is Cegalis running on an anti-Iraq War platform?

It seemed I had read that she was somewhere (i can't remember anymore) - if she is running on an anti-Iraq War platform (among other issues)it would seem more senseable to me for her to seek out endorsements from anti-Iraq War Democrats .. in an earlier thread i asked this question but no one has responded - i'm also curious if she is opposed to the Patriot Act, or at least if she supports Feingold's version, why not seek endorsements from leadership like Feingold or others of like mind.. ?

On the other hand is she running in Mass.?

[blm]

128. I think she's running on a progressive platform, but I don't think that

has anything to do with Kerry's endorsement, since he submitted an Iraq withdrawal plan last fall targeting the end of this year, anyway. He also endorsed Rodriguez over Cuellar, and Rodriguez is running on a progressive, anti-war platform.

No - it has everything to do with the fact that Duckworth is running as part of a group of vet candidates who sought endorsements from Dem vets who are working with the entire GROUP.

[Ken Burch]

116. If they aren't progressive antiwar vets, what's the point?

There's no reason any Democrat should be working to elect more conservatives and hawks.

[blm]

129. Who claims they are conservative hawks running? Those I heard at DC rally

certainly didn't sound like conservative hawks.

Did they sound like hawks to you?

[Ken Burch]

136. If Duckworth still isn't explicitly antiwar after losing both legs

We can assume she's a hardline hawk. And her positions on every major issue are antiprogressive.
I wasn't talking about the other vets. It was enough for Kerry to endorse the progressive ones.

If he is just going to endorse anyone who's an Iraq war vet, he might as well have campaigned for Barry Goldwater Jr. in the 70's because it was enough that Barry Jr. was a Vietnam vet.

This is all especially bad in the Illinois 6th district race, since the whole Duckworth race is about trying to stop the renomination of an electable progressive peace candidate. Christine Cegelis is a Democrat, Duckworth has no political convictions whatsoever. She should be a vet center counsellor, not a pawn in a campaign to stop the Illinois 6th District electing a REAL Democrat.

[Old and In the Way]

121. I agree...and a very powerful one at that.

We need fighters getting in and doing our business in Washington. Many that moan that we've been lacking a Democratic backbone ought to be happy with this strategy. If this will help defeat the Republican and drive the House/Senate to a Democratic majority in November, I'm all for it.

Kerry's also supporting Rodriguez in TX over Cuellar....anyone have a problem with that? Anyone think that endorsement is a bad idea? How about people contributing money to candidates in races that outside their districts...is thata bad thing?

Sometimes, endorsements don't help. I don't think Republicans endorsing Lieberman in CT are very helpful to Joe.

[Ken Burch]

137. The Rodriguez endorsement was progressive.

And it wasn't a betrayal of Kerry's principles.

And it won't be any use having a Democratic House if that majority includes enough right-wing Democrats to prevent the passage of progressive legislation. The reelection of all those Dixiecrat committee chairs year after year wasn't of any value to progressives.

[loyalsister]

126. Hope not

I think it's a cynical way to use vets. I expect more from Democrats.

[blm]

130. That's what people said about the Vietnam Vets marching in DC, too.

.

[tishaLA]

7. Completely correct

Endorsements are part of the political process and, frankly, they tell us about the candidates and those who endorse them. I'm happy that senior members of the party, like Pelosi, Kerry, Clark, Obama, etc., are actually out there working to help raise money for a candidate they endorse.

And, most notably, they have said NOTHING negative about Ms. Duckworth's opponent. They have simply said what they like about Ms. Duckworth herself.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Exactly!

Kerry didn't say anything negative about her opponent and isn't going around and telling her donors to stop supporting her or anything like that. So did all you people here freaking out freaked out when Gore endorsed Dean? I bet not. So get over it!

[WildEyedLiberal]

8. Exactly

Those who can't seem to grasp this simple concept need to go back to Civics 101.

[bvar22]

16. In MY Civics 101 class,

I learned that the people we send to Washington to represent us are chosen in local primary elections by the people who actually live and work in that local area.

You must be thinking of:
Political Machine Politics 101

Hi-Jacking Local Primaries 101

Using the Good Ol Boy Network in DC 101

Incumbancy Protection 101

Who Cares What the Local Rubes Think, we can BUY Any Primary we Want 101

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Critters2]

19. Every state should have caucuses

Participatory democracy is a beautiful thing!

[FreedomAngel82]

45. THERE IS STILL A CACUS!!

Can you not fucking read?!

[Le Taz Hot]

132. Criminee!

Dude! Switch to decaf and quit biting everyone's head off! You've got a pissy attitude!

[Critters2]

135. There's not a caucus in Illinois

There's a primary. And believe me, they are VERY different things.

[WildEyedLiberal]

28. Was the primary canceled in IL-06?

Was it?

No?

Guess that renders your whole pack of absurd hyperbole moot, then, doesn't it?

Your post is a load of horseshit. There IS a primary, which is the OP's fucking point. This isn't about people "outside the district" interfering - as I recall, DFA is not based in Illinois' sixth district, but the furor over DFA and PDA's "meddling" is conspicuously absent.

In Civics 101, you learned that primaries are allowed. You also, presumably, learned that other people can endorse whichever candidate they prefer. Unless they endorse the candidate you don't like, when it's no longer allowed. :eyes: Horse balls.

[madfloridian]

30. That was vicious, talking to that person like that. Correction on DFA

I will correct you on DFA. Four local ones have been working with her all the time. We are well-organized on the ground. DFA national only endorsed her after the AFL-CIO and Clark came on board.

I don't know who put a burr under your skin today, but is getting pretty bad.

Here are the local DFAs endorsing her;
Democracy for America: Edgewater
Democracy for America of Elk Grove Township
Democracy for America: Loop
Democracy for America: Oak Park

Here are the rest of the endorsements. You are really over angry over some sensible statements today.

http://www.cegelisforcongress.com/endorsements

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. I'm angry when people don't respect democracy

And have the audacity to claim to support "democracy" and "primaries" while trying to force Duckworth from the race.

Like Cegelis? Donate money to her and vote for her. But don't fucking tell me I can't do the same for her opponent. It's about DEMOCRACY, right??

[madfloridian]

34. I just disagree with the "party establishment" throwing their weight

in a contest where there was already someone. Skinner has a post up today. He says the primaries are where we make our decision and we support Democrats in the election.

I agree. I will do that.

I will fight very hard to keep the congressional leaders from going into districts that already have a good candidate.

We have to have primaries.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. TELL ME WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THE PRIMARY IS OVER?!

THERE IS STILL A DAMN PRIMARY! HE'S JUST ENDORSING HER! GOOD GRIEF!

[Ken Burch]

94. If you want to support a non-Democrat in a Democratic primary

that's your choice. A pointless choice, but a choice nonetheless.

Kerry buried the last shard of his soul when he endorsed Duckworth. There was no excuse for a "liberal" senator
trying to stop a progressive candidate.

[WildEyedLiberal]

97. LOL

Hyperbole much?

BTW, note that no one is smearing Cegelis. On the other hand, I've read numerous hateful slurs about Tammy Duckworth. One would think the "progressive" crowd here would be more open and tolerant. :eyes:

[LincolnMcGrath]

101. I guess calling Cegelis an

Incompetent Boob was not a slam in your eyes?

:eyes:

One might think the anti-Democrat crowd might be a bit more honest...

[Ken Burch]

110. I'm right. No publicly announced positions

is the same as having no positions. There's no there there. Tammy would be a good nonpolitical vet center counsellor, but she has nothing to offer this party.

[WildEyedLiberal]

112. Bullshit. You made some huge assumptions that you can't prove.

You called her "not a Democrat." I guarantee she's more of a Democrat than 3/4s of the whining legions here at DU who bitch about the Democratic party and threaten to vote Green every day.

BTW, "progressives" shot their wads over Paul Hackett, who also had no real issue positions, and whose appeal lay in his veteran status. Someone tell Tammy Duckworth that all she has to do to earn the adulation of the "netroots" is call Bush a "son of a bitch," because that's THE only reason everyone here fawned over Hackett like they did.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

115. I call B.S. Folks all over the spectrum supported Hackett

Just because a certain few DUers tried over and over and over to use it as an excuse to bash anyone to the left of Lieberman, does not make it true.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. It's the damn truth!

[dogman]

69. Geography lesson.

Most of these DFA's are no more local than Emanuel. Edgewater, Loop, and Oak Park are not in the 6th CD. Obama and Durbin represent the 6th CD in the Senate. The AFL-CIO has a large membership in the 6th CD.

[rockymountaindem]

29. So Kerry shouldn't be allowed to endorse anyone?

I don't see how him (or any other elected official) endorsing someone equates to "hi-jacking" the primary. Kerry's just a US citizen like you and me. Could you go into more detali on that?

[Ken Burch]

95. It's an unforgiveable betrayal for a former antiwar leader

to try and stop peace candidates anywhere.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. HE ISN'T TELLING YOU TO WHO SUPPORT!

HE's supporting her because HE wants to just like he is other canidates whether vets or not! YOU CAN STILL VOTE FOR WHOEVER YOU WANT! Why don't you people open your fucking brains and stop acting like freeper idiots?!

[radio4progressives]

9. I don't have a dog in this fight.. but your wrong about the meaning of

Endorsements..

Endorsements by definition says you support a candidate over all others.. that's the whole purpose of endorsements, you lend that weight of the credibility of the name that has "signed on".

Now if Kerry had chosen to endorse both Candidates, one could make the argument that he has confidence and admiration for both party contenders, giving both equal weight of his name recognition and party creds. but that isn't generally what is done unless there is a slate to fill multiple seats such as city councils and school boards and such.

[Critters2]

21. Apparently anyone who wants to can have a dog in this fight

God forbid the voters should decide who runs in their district.

[FreedomAngel82]

54. THERE IS STILL A PRIMARY!

YOU STILL GET TO VOTE! GOOD GRIEF! Can you not read people?!

[Le Taz Hot]

133. Excuse me while I get the hayseed out of my mouth but . . .

what people are trying to explain to you (it is YOU who apparently can't read) is that Kerry making any endorsement carries a lot of weight, read, the party big boys have, once again, gotten their fingers in to what should be a LOCAL primary. If you will not admit that this endorsement DOES have an impact, you are either naive or being disingenuous. Either way you are wasting everyone's time with your ranting.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. IT'S JUST AN ENDORSEMENT!

You can still vote for whoever you want and the opponent has to work just as hard too. Good grief people! You're acting like freeper idiots!

[madfloridian]

10. Is disagreeing "freaking out"?

Could you explain how Kerry got elected Senator without being part of the DSCC?

And how does this compare to Gore's endorsement? He endorsed Dean when the DLC was launching attacks on him, just like they did on him in 2000. Read Crashing the Gate.

And, I don't know what else to say. I just thought it was ok to disagree and say so.

[PassingFair]

35. Why YOU "hateful, purist purger"!!

:) I know, because it says so below!

Apparently, this is what we can expect every time a populist candidate in the democratic party rears his or her ugly, honest face.

The entire weight of the party will crash down on him/her if it looks like there might be a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

:puke:

Sit down, shut up, vote for who we tell you to.

Whose TURN is it now, oh holy chess players?
You, who are the RUINATION of the democratic party.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. HE ISN'T TELLING YOU WHO TO VOTE FOR!

Do you not know what a damn endorsement is?! He's just throwing his weight in to support her because HE wants to! And if you don't live in Illinois district six you don't get a damn say anyways. HE ISN'T TAKING AWAY YOUR VOTE! Learn to read people!

[Ken Burch]

100. Uh, if Kerry is endorsing a candidate, he is "telling you who to vote for"

That's what an endorsement is, dude. Why are you such a blind defender of Kerry on this?

[politicasista]

105. What's wrong with a vet endorsing another vet?

It's not like he is holding a gun to your head saying support her or else. Don't support her if you don't want to then. You should stop attacking and singling out Kerry just cause he doesn't support your candidate. Why don't you pick on the others that have chosen to endorse her too. They don't deserve the bashing either.

Did Gore tell you to vote for Dean after he endorsed him? Gee.

[Adelante]

77. How do you explain Francine Busby in CA-50?

Endorsed by DFA. Endorsed by DemocracyAction. Endorsed by SoCal Grassroots. AND backed by the DCCC.

[PassingFair]

82. They probably think she'll lose....

They'd be shoehorning in one of their own otherwise.

But I don't know anything about that race.. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

52. Go and read the damn thread yourself

People were freaking out saying that the primary was over WHEN IT ISN'T! IT'S JUST A DAMN ENDORSEMENT! Oh good grief. If you don't see it's the same damn thing you're being a total asshole. Gore endorsed Dean because he liked Dean and wanted to support him! Just like Kerry is doing with Duckworth. He isn't apart of the DSCC staff like Schumer. Duh.

[radio4progressives]

11. He gives the weight of the Party Leadership, now you cannot possibly

deny that with any credibility! c'mon! hello!

[sandnsea]

23. So what

Not all Democrats agree with the hateful purist purgers. I've read about Tammy Duckworth and I like her. You think your opinion is worth more than mine?? Hell half the purgers aren't even Democrats anyway, why the hell should they have more say in the Democratic Party???

[minvis]

25. Is this flaming necessary??

"purist purgers", c'mon.

[sandnsea]

27. Yes, it is

In case you're not aware, these are primarily Greens whose mission is to "take back" the Democratic Party. They couldn't get anywhere standing on the Green Party platform, so they've decided the Democratic Party is supposed to be the party of socialists and anarchists. Some of these people have never ever been anywhere near the political views of the Democratic Party, their intentions are to destroy the Democratic Party. They are the ones who have declared war and vowed to run out any candidate who doesn't bow to their every whim. If you left it up to them, there wouldn't be any Democrats left because none of them have voted to their liking on every issue. They just rant and rant and rant, vote after vote. And that doesn't even get into the distortions and misrepresentations, repeatedly, candidate after candidate, issue after issue. So you damned right I'm going to call them out on their bullshit, they don't own the Democratic Party any more than I do, or any other Democrat.

[PassingFair]

36. "primarily Greens whose mission is to "take back" the"

..."Democratic Party".

:rofl:

OK, super-spy girl! Whatever you say.

[sandnsea]

48. That's what their posts say

I'm just repeating what they say.

[madfloridian]

39. Yet the ones being attacked in the most ugly way are Democrats...

like me who have made it clear we will vote for the Democrat in the election.

I have been skewered here today because I don't think Kerry and Clark should have done this. Cegelis is a good Democrat who helped rebuild the party there in that area.

Is that what you think of me and others in DFA? That we are greens set to destroy the party? Is that why Kerry and Clark and Obama and Durbin endorsed Duckworth?

Please tell me you are kidding.

[FreedomAngel82]

56. So let me ask you this

So should Gore have endorsed Dean or should he have stayed out too?

[Ken Burch]

106. Not analagous.

It isn't the same as an incumbent senator, one who used to be liberal and antiwar, interfering to stop a progressive peace candidate and replace her with a hopeless right wing hawk.

[sandnsea]

57. I'm not going to fight with you

There are Greens who want to destroy the Democratic Party and rebuild it in the Green image. I don't think you're one of them.

Kerry endorsed Perlmutter in Colorado over the weekend. Funny there was no uproar about that. If he's free to endorse Perlmutter, he's free to endorse Duckworth. Doesn't mean there is any other agenda involved except a sincere desire to get Democrats elected. Attacking him, or any other Democrat, for endorsing or supporting the candidate of their choice, just because it isn't the one YOU choose, is doing the exact same thing you say is being done to you.

I don't care who wins the election, I didn't care who won between Hackett & Brown. But I do care about the misrepresentations and attacks on Democrats who just don't deserve it. It started with the Nader Greens, and that divisiveness isn't gone yet. You see it yourself, you've commented on it yourself. Try to step back and be objective about what is happening so some of this nonsense can stop.

[madfloridian]

85. But I am being attacked today, and I am no Green.

Yes, I resent the ones who advocate nothingness rather than compromise.

But I also see that they have screwed a very lovely, very liberal lady in IL just because they have the power.

I don't know the Perlmutter person you refer to. I have no opinion because I know nothing about it.

It has been vicious here today because some of us disagreed. That is not a good thing.

[sandnsea]

90. You jumped into a post I made to somebody else

And act as if I called you a Green. I was referring to very specific people and they're the exact same people that YOU get upset with when they go after the DNC. This isn't any different at all. You know full well that the DNC gets beat up for getting involved when somebody thinks they shouldn't, or not getting involved when somebody thinks they shuld. This flack over the DSCC and the DCCC is the exact same thing. They're the Senate and House equivalent of the DNC. They all have a job to do to get Dems elected. The primaries are weeks away, people have their infrastructures in place and are pulling out all stops. Whichever unions, interest groups, influential local people, and YES, national politicians. Either Cegelis has figured out how to get some behind her, or she hasn't. Why is it okay for DFA to support her, but not the Kerry PAC. :shrug:

You say viciousness is not a good thing, but you guys still can't see that you're the ones who start it, every single time. Unless you think nobody is allowed to post anything supportive about Tammy, and still call that democracy.

And again, I don't care who wins. But this is the way this stuff keeps going down.

[Ken Burch]

108. Basically, you're defending the idea that the Democratic Party

should be viciously antileft and that rank-and-file activists should simply blindly obey our "betters"
because they just know best what is good for us.

Is there any reason for a non-progressive militarist Democratic Party to exist?

[radio4progressives]

139. 'any reason for a non-progressive militarist Democratic Party to exist?'

excellent question my dear friend, notice the sound of silence?

nothing but *crickets*

these people hate noisy progressives... we don't belong unless we shut the fuck up, and vote with blind folds on of course..

[FreedomAngel82]

96. I did the orignial post so you're

whole post to me is just pointless. (Why? Go back and read my original post and my others as well, you're attacking the very wrong person and you're damn straight I'm not a green or any the people you named.)

[sandnsea]

125. I didn't respond to you either

I responded to someone else, who most certainly spends the majority of their time posting attacks against Democrats on DU. And there most certainly are a host of Greens on DU, and others who proudly proclaim that they are not Democrats.

[karynnj]

88. You can disagree with who he endorsed,

I disagreed with who Gore endorsed - and it was a very parallel situation, except you agreed with it.

[LittleClarkie]

89. But is Cegelis one of their "band of brothers" (and sisters)

It makes sense that Kerry and Clark are supporting the veterans that they just rallied with not more than a few weeks ago. Nothing against Cegelis. It's a vet thing.

[radio4progressives]

53. This is an extraordinarily false distortion and reactionary missive.

I suggest you calm down, take a very deep breath and concern yourself more with the right wingers who have hijackedthe party, and are continuing to hijack the party, unless you have something against Liberal and progressive values and causes, perhaps?

[sandnsea]

60. I've seen waaaay too many of your posts

Most of which have nothing to do with any values or causes, and are just divisive bullshit. Perhaps you're the ones who has something against liberals, progressives and Democrats, who knows.

[radio4progressives]

63. Hmm. I write about progressive values and causes all the time...

apparently you missed those... :shrug:

[sandnsea]

68. I see what you write

Antagonistic, rabble rousing, anti-Democratic Party crap. 9 times out of 10.

[radio4progressives]

72. oh my..

I plead guilty as a rabble rouser, that's what a good citizen should be, imo. i've posted plenty on spinelessness of some members and co-optation of DLC'rs - but what's any of that got to do with the meaning of endorsements?

[minvis]

83. I'm sorry, you're the one being divisive

This is just ridiculous. Anyone disagreeing with a point of yours is an rouble rousing anarchist/Green. Please spare me.

[sandnsea]

87. Excuse me

When you've been here 3 years and watched issue after issue get torched because Democrats have to defend themselves from the exact same distortions from the left and the right, you'll see what I'm talking about.

[minvis]

91. Please

I've been here two years and I've seen plenty. What Mad Floridian and others here are pointing out are arguments. You may not like it, but she has made it clear she is still a Democrat and will still vote for them. She simply has some concerns on how the Democratic leadership is dictating elections.

[radio4progressives]

47. i said i didn't have a dog in this fight...

I'm not making a value judgement with regard to either candidate, nor am I arguing whether or not Kerry should (or should not) endorse one candidate over the other.

The OP asserts that an endorsement is essentially a meaningless gesture and I'm pointing out the fact that endorsements carry great weight, and can have a positive or negative impact on that candidate. The lack of endorsements can have the same impact for that matter.

Whether or not the endorser impacts negatively or positively is in the eye of the beholder, in terms of which direction.. but it should never be considered as an insignificant gesture, it certainly is not.

(please read the post above the one you responded to for reference)

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Than why are you in the damn thread?

[radio4progressives]

64. to correct your definition about the value of endorsements...

look at my first post in this thread...

[radio4progressives]

65. see number #9

[karynnj]

86. As did Gore - when he, like Kerry now, was the last nominee

Gore endorsed Dean over all the other candidates before the first primary - this is parallel except they were running for a higher office.

[Mass]

14. I am not sure where the beef is anyway.

Kerry has been endorsing many Democrats. He has been endorsing Cuellar's opponent, for example, and I would hope nobody is opposing that (I am sure some do, but I dont care). He will endorse other people. He endorsed another candidate in CO last week and nobody protested

I certainly understand that other people would have wanted him to endorse somebody else. As I said in the other thread, I do not know who I prefer and from the little bit I know, I think I would have supported Cegelis, but where is the big beef here. He just endorsed somebody.

The amazing thing though is the difference of money raised by the unopposed Republican candidate (+ $ 1M) and the three Democratic candidates altogether (~300 k). IMHO, if this refects the capacity of the Democrats to raise money in this race, the district is lost anyway. I hope that is not the case and that a good primary will wake people up.

[FreedomAngel82]

59. Exactly!

He's endorsing all types of vets because he knows what they've been through and he obviously likes Duckworth. He isn't taking your votes away people. Grow up!

[Ken Burch]

111. The difference is that Cegelis is a Democrat, and earned a clear

shot after her strong showing against Hyde. There was no good reason for the party big boys(and it was mostly boys, with Pelosi going along just because she was expected to obey)to stop Christine. She has principles and convictions and Tammy has none. The party is using her war injuries as a cynical stunt. They don't respect her for anything except for her wounds.

[MrBenchley]

127. She hasn't earned anything

except well-earned derision for her campaign finances....

Cegelis has just $39,363 in her warchest (and debts amounting to $39,179) because she pissed away the other $200,000 she raised on nothing at all....

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00394007/198383

As the archpundit blog said: "Giving money to Cegelis is like investing in arm floaties before a trip on the Titanic."

[Catchawave]

18. Kerry has a huge national following

I'm still on his email list (as well as Edwards'), and if his endorsement means $upport for Tammy's war chest, good for him and her !

[iconoclastNYC]

20. These types of threads just inflame passions more.

COUNTERPRODUCTIVE much?

[sandnsea]

22. It's only democracy if you endorse the "netroots" annointed ones

You must have missed the 2003 primary or you'd know how it works. If the DNC, DSCC and DCCC were endorsing Cegelis, the whiners would be bragging about how they had shown the beltway Dems a thing or two and infused them with spine. You wouldn't hear anybody saying they should stay out of the primaries. Nothing new.

[bvar22]

37. Wrong.

I would. I will. I do.

The Beltway and their privately funded organizations have NO BUSINESS interfering in Primary elections, and our Political celebrities have NO BUSINESS intefering in local Primaries.
Money from OUTSIDE the boundaries of particular elections should be criminalized.
The Democratic Party should forbid represenatives from taking an active part in primary elections outside their districts.
Let the LOCALS decide.
This is a PRINCIPLE of Democracy.

Your conjecture may apply to some.
It does NOT apply to me.

[Mass]

38. No pb for me with that. Only one, in fact.

As long as candidates are allowed to finance their campaign, it is the best way to get billionaires running and use their money to get rid of all grassroot candidates.

As long as you do not limit the money that goes into a primary or an election, this is what is going to happen (it is actually already happening, in fact).

[madfloridian]

40. Primaries are local...you have it right.

DC should not do this.

[Mass]

51. You did not seem to have a problem when Kerry endorsed Rodriguez over

Cuellar. I am not sure I see the difference (except that you agree with Kerry on the first one and not on the second, which I understand). I am not sure why this is such a big deal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2475669&mesg_id=2475669

[madfloridian]

66. Because Cuellar sat with Republicans at the SOTU.

He played kissy face with George at the SOTU, and he votes totally Republican.

Christine had a campaign staff, she is liberal, and there was no need to endorse someone from out of district over her.

Now that voting has started, it should be sacrosanct that party leaders stay out of it.

Cuellar and Cegelis can in no way be compared.

[Mass]

70. I would never compare them

It is just that you were so affirmative that this should never happen that I was wondering.

I am happy he endorsed him and am surprised nobody else in the Senate has done that.

When it comes to this endorsement, it is directly linked to BandofBrothers, I think. While I understand your objections on Duckworth (and not being from IL-06, I dont think I am entitled to have any), it seems to me that the endorsement is part of a pro-vet effort more than a DC leadership effort, but everybody is entitled to his opinion).

Good luck to your candidate anyway.

[madfloridian]

78. I have no objections to Duckworth at all.

I believe as Skinner said today in his post in GD that the primaries are where we choose our candidates. In the election we need to vote for the Democrat.

I don't think the party leaders need to be so aggressively putting others in a race where there is a good candidate already.

There are many districts with no one running against the GOP, why not run people there?

This is not about personalities it is about interfering with our ability to pick our candidate.

[FreedomAngel82]

61. HE HAS NO SAY BUT AN ENDORSEMENT!

:eyes: Oh brother! People have been making endorsements forever. So should Gore have endorsed Dean in the 2004 election primaries? I bet people here were not complaining about that. :mad:

[bvar22]

76. Absolutely OK for Gore to endorse Dean.

You must not have read my post.
I said endorsements by Party celebrities OUTSIDE the district (state, precinct, parish, etc.) should be forbidden by the Party.
As far as I know, Al Gore was still and American citizen when he endorsed Dean in a national primary.
No Problem.

Please read the post, and THINK about your response.

:eyes: back at ya!

[sandnsea]

67. It's their JOB

I am sorry, it's their JOB to be sure there's a candidate in every district, and to begin laying GOTV groundwork. If the DSCC and the DCCC had absolutely NO CLUE who was running where, we'd rightfully be asking for their heads. Like it or not, this is a national party and some of us want our national party to win in November. Party members help other party members win races, even primary races. And how is it okay for privately funded organizations like DFA to help Cegelis, but not okay for anybody to help Duckworth. That isn't democracy, it's dictatorship.

[madfloridian]

80. But there are NOT candidates in every district.

They are putting them in districts where there are two or three already running.

[Mass]

81. Kerry put nobody anywhere - We are 3 weeks before the primary

There is going to be a primary and there are THREE candidates. He endorsed somebody. So what!

I understand that it bothers you he did not endorse the candidate you like, but in 3 weeks, there is going to be a primary and the people of Illinois-06 (not you, not me, them) will decide. This is how it works and how it has worked for years).

Schumer, Emmanuel, and Dean cannot endorse people because they are officials with a role in the election, but other Democrats can and do. (Obama endorsed Deval Patrick in MA for the governor race and I am very happy about that).

[madfloridian]

84. Rahm got Duckworth to run, Durbin involved as well as Obama.

They met with her and convinced her to run.

Schumer told Rendell to clear the way for Casey. When Rendell said he was anti-choice, Schumer said that did not matter anymore.

Schumer said they would step into primaries if there was any problem. He said they would get very involved.

Rahm and the DCCC have held fundraisers for her in DC, even in the DCCC HQ.

I heard Christine say on Laura Flanders the other night that early voting started the next day. That would be Monday it started. Our party leaders should not be endorsing now of all times.

Tonight is money counting time, and Christine knows all the big bucks are going to Duckworth. She also knows she will be judged by the amount of money she gets....even though the party powers that be have deprived her of support.

We should get to choose in the primaries, then I am willing to vote for the Democrat in the election. But since they are meddling in so many primaries...by they I mean congressional leaders and office holders and committee chairman...they are taking away our choices there.

So if that is how it will be played, there won't be change in the party.

[Ken Burch]

113. It's NOT their job to replace electable progressives with centrists losers

There was no reason for them to try to stop Christine Cegelis. She'd earned the shot with her strong showing last time. There's no way Duckworth would have pulled anywhere near 45% against Hyde.

[Dr Fate]

26. I trust John Kerry on this. n/t

n/t

[Ken Burch]

102. duplicate post deleted by sender

nt.

[Ken Burch]

103. Uh...why?

Especially when history has shown that everyone elected first as a bland centrist has stayed a bland centrist until the end.
You know that Democrats never benefit from the election of centrists. Duckworth is a dead loss if she starts as a centrist and a hawk.

[Dr Fate]

131. In my mind, most Democrats are moderate or centrist.

Considering how far to the right Bush & the media have shifted the spectrum.

If Kerry says this candidate is okay, then I'll take Kerry's word for it.

In any event, I'm not from Ohio, so my opinion means little in the primaries.

[radio4progressives]

140. except if they're going after the republican voters, and i think that is

the strategy.. then it all starts to make sense...

[LittleClarkie]

31. This is the woman who was on Ed Schultz who pointed out

the Congress was trying to wait for Tom Delay before getting back to work. I remember someone here donated to her campaign for that bit of heads up news.

What I've seen of her, she's seemed decent enough. She looks to be doing what's needed to get the job done, gladhanding and such on the street. What's supposed to be not "grassroots" enough about her?

Eh, no endorsement in the world is going to help if people don't want her. So we shall see in the primary, I think.

Actually, a couple of Kerry emails have been in conjunction with either the DSCC or the DCCC. I think he's letting them use his email addresses. But why would that be bad? He's trying to help get Dems elected. If he were doing nothing, he'd get nailed for that too. So the only thing to do is suffer the slings and arrows and just keep doing what he thinks best in order to win back Congress. So Duckworth got an endorsement from Kerry.

I agree, it appears to be a band of brothers thing. Hell, they all just met, along with Clark and Clelland and such, so why not?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

75. I am glad he did.

[eridani]

104. Duckworth has no links to the district

Cegelis lives there. 'Nuff said.

[seabeyond]

117. ha, i am just surprised as shit i dont knwo about this argument yet

lol lol. but reading thru the post of this very long thread,..... i dont care or have to know shit.

kerry can endorse

as happens in politics, go figure, i am watching governor and others support swinford. i dont like swinford, i want carlisle. pisses me off everytime i hear one of these people support swinford.

so al those wanting the other person will feel pissed, and kerry can endorse whoever, we saw that in primaries people endorsing choices. deal with it

it certainly isnt the same as hackett, and even that one didnt bother me a lot

[FlaNoKerry]

118. Kerry is running....

and he should stay out of the primaries....as the DCCC and the DSCC

period. endorsing is not the key...but it does not help. The DCCC and the DSCC is actually stopping money going to the others...lining up all of congress to go into districts and fundraise for ONE of the candidates in a primary.

They are doing this to the one who did the best in FLA for the house races...they are aupporting the won she beat in the primary by 25%!!!

She ran against Katherine Harris and she should have done the worst...but she did the best. She has Yale, Columbia, Brown and experience behind her as a lawyer and working in government. The one they are supporting? She has a high school edu. that is it. Go figure?

[madfloridian]

119. Jennings the millionaire and Jan Schneider, a good candidate.

I am very bruised here today. Why don't you explain this lovely situation. The last time we saw Jan....she wasn't sure she was going to be able to swing it with all the big guys going for the Jennings campaign.

Jan beat Jennings last time, and did well against Harris...and the party rewards her by backing the candidate she beat.

[madfloridian]

120. You know, I just read an old diary on this topic at Kos.

You know what? It sounded almost as ugly as this thread does. It was written in Dec. of last year on this topic of FL 13.

Jan got 45% of the vote in a district about 32% Democrat. She beat Christine (twice was it)?

So Rahm is backing Christine because she can self-finance.

I notice Jan posted on the thread at Kos. She must have felt very sad and disheartened at what she read there.

I was going to write a post about it, but it just hurts too much. Rahm has gotten Kerry to donate to Christine Jennings, I think, and Barbara Boxer to hold a huge fundraiser for her. Other Dem leaders are endorsing and funding this millionaire over Jan who beat her last time.

Yet the ugliness in that thread at Kos makes it sound like even thinking Jan deserves the party's support is dirty talk.

I may post about it another time.

[Clarkie1]

122. Her Next Mission.

A message sent to Clark supporters recently via e-mail:

Over the years I've seen many strong leaders who have given more to our nation than taken from it. People who lead by example and embody the values that make America so special. Major Tammy Duckworth, a helicopter pilot who just months ago was discharged from the Illinois National Guard, is just such a leader.

Tammy left the service by way of Walter Reed hospital, where she woke up without her legs 10 days after a rocket-propelled grenade exploded in her lap as she flew her helicopter. She spent the next year not only healing her own wounds, but fighting to help her fellow soldiers. She saw first-hand the young veterans who were falling through the cracks of an unprepared health care system, and championed their cause to Congress, earning admiration from both sides of the aisle.

Now Tammy Duckworth is running for Congress as a Democrat in Illinois' 6th Congressional district. As our country faces the many challenges we have, both at home and abroad, we need leaders like Tammy Duckworth on Capitol Hill fighting for what is right. That can't happen without people like you and me stepping up and doing what we can to help turn our country around.

Tammy is a woman who embodies the best of American values and knows what she stands for -- the issues that impact our families, and she will fight on their behalf. Today I'm asking you to support her in winning the open seat in Illinois' 6th district.

Tammy is going to fight to make sure that we invest in our nation's future through education, especially higher education. Right now the one-party Congress is trying to cut student aid by $14 billion. We need Tammy in Congress to fight for our values not Washington's misguided priorities.

Tammy is going to fight to ensure that tax cuts go first to those who need them and those who will put the money back into our economy -- not to the big oil and drug companies.

Tammy speaks personally and eloquently about the issue of health care. She is going to fight to give all Americans access to quality, affordable care. Topping her health care agenda is expansion of the highly successful S-Chip program to cover more kids and fighting for fixes to the flawed new Medicare program.

Tammy wants to add her voice to the debate the next time Congress debates whether to send our troops into another battle -- especially, if this Administration embarks on another war based on poor intelligence, without a plan and without proper support for our soldiers.

Tammy will be the kind of member of Congress who can silence those on the far right who continue to brazenly question our party's commitment to national security.

Support Tammy Duckworth's fight in Illinois -- contribute to her campaign today!.

http://www.duckworthforcongress.com/...

Tammy is showing the people of Illinois' 6th district that she has the values, the leadership, and the optimism to make them proud of their voice in Congress. Let's not let her fight this mission alone!

Sincerely,

Wes Clark

http://securingamerica.com/duckworth

:patriot:

[madfloridian]

124. I think this is fine after thinking it over.

I think that is how it should be done. There are many candidates running in Florida who are needing money, and this way I can just let the party leaders decide.

It will be cheaper in the long run that donating to people and having the party choose someone else for the candidate.

So I think this might work just fine. That way no one, no one, can blame the people at the ground level for any failures. So I was wrong on this one. I think Kerry and Clark and Durbin and Obama know better than I do. I think Boxer and Kerry know better than I do in FL 13th race, and the others holding fundraisers.

It will work out just fine this way, I think. They can raise more money than we can, so the candidates will be better funded.

[madfloridian]

134. And again I emphasize....

They say they have the experience and knowledge to pick and fund. I can't do anything about that, and I am not experienced politically.

So if I don't make waves on this, then they can't come back and blame the grassroots. I hear that is in the works, and I won't be blamed. I took off my DFA avatar for a while so people can't say I am hurting them by speaking out.

In many races this time there may be backlash, and I think the ones with the power and the money need to bear the blame or the glory themselves...