Is it the hippies fault or is it Money or is it.....

[Flabbergasted]

Over the last 40 years we have seen come major new challenges for society. Fundamentalist Christianity and Socially Conservative Republicans have by and large blamed this on the hippies and liberals.

Frankly I liked it when their were lots of small businesses and a sense of community even in cities. So what happened?

Now we have: rapant drug abuse, gangs, school shootings, pedophilia, etc etc etc. What happened?

I know its always been around but is it getting stronger. Is it tearing at the fabric of society worldwide? What Happened?

Does the MSM just highlight these problems more so we are just more aware of them? What happened?

Is this just all the influence of money and the end result of capitalism or is it the fault of liberalism run rampant?

What Happened

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Media&corporate deregulation/consolidation

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. A lot of hippies around here

and my county doesn't have a WalMart, even if it is in Arkansas. Still a LOT of small businesses-most in fact. Only know of one "chain" store in the whole county and that's a Family Dollar. (I don't count the grocery store because there's only one other one in another county-two links don't make a chain). There's recycling on a county level, good food to be had, and folks have been getting along pretty good lately. So I don't think what happened happened because of the hippies-at least those who stayed true to their ideals.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Well lets see.

By my estimate 'liberalism ran rampant' from 1964 - 1968 and from 76 - 80. So we had 8 years of rampant liberalism in two four year segments with that hideous Nixon thing in between. Since 1980 we have had 'conservativism run rampant' with the possible exception of the first two years of the Clinton administration. So we have 25 years of their prescription against 8-10 years of ours. You tell me who is responsible for the crappy state of affairs?

Oh and in my life the absolute best years to be alive were from 64 - 80. Life was cheap and affordable and fun.

[ChiciB1]

7. They Were Good Weren't They???

I just wish this generation could have been there!

[Warpy]

15. Carter was NO LIBERAL!

Carter was a conservative southern Democrat, which is why a lot of progressives voted for John Anderson in 1980.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. I actually didn't say Carter was.

However watergate brought a bunch of progressive democrats into congress and the post nixon era was fairly liberal and progressive. Carter indeed started the whole deregulation nonsense rolling. Anyhow the point wasn't to quibble about just how liberal this year or that year was, the point was that blaming 'the 60's' is ridiculous given how short the era of permissiveness actually was. Would you argue with that?

[radio4progressives]

47. i was one of them... n/t

[Mythsaje]

4. Here's a few answers...my opinion...

Drug abuse--promoted by the drug war, where the financial gain from drug sales pushes the product into the farthest reaches of the country.

Gangs--see number one.

School Shootings--I don't have any answers for this one, other than perhaps that a small segment of our youth is suffering from quiet desperation, unable to conform, yet pressured from all different directions to do so.

Pedophilia--It's always been here, hidden away behind closed doors, too vile for "polite society" to even discuss. Not to mention that I believe the Church has always had pedophile priests who were sheltered by the Powers-That-Be.

[Montauk6]

20. Great answers, Mythsaje, and here's something to help you out...

Drug Abuse & Gangs - Can you say "Temperance Movement" or "Prohibition?"

School Shootings - Simple: 16th Street Baptist Church, Birmingham, AL, 1963. Not a "school," per se but I'd argue that it applies. Furthermore, the ones that blew up the church are probably part of the ilk that would blame liberalism for all things bad in this country. In fact, what BIGGER symbol of this mentality could there be than this terrorist act in the midst of the Civil Rights struggle?

[Mend]

5. hippies would never have allowed NOLA to drown and hippies

don't fly planes into buildings, allow people to starve and go without medical care. xian "values" are hate, hypocrisy, and economic darwinism. They don't care about people, just symbols. People feel unloved and act accordingly.

[ChiciB1]

6. I Was A Hippie & I Wonder All The Time About This...

I do think drugs had something to do with it, but I can't say that's the cause. They had prohibition and that didn't fly, still America became Great!

I think it simply comes down to GREED! I heard yesterday somewhere that only 12% of Americans are part of a Union anymore. Granted they also got greedy, but if it had not been for Unions I dare say I wouldn't have a pot to pee in!

After all this time, Hippies are still remembered as being real activists and we felt we actually could change many things. And we did! Not until RayGun did it start getting so lopsided, with his "trickle down" economy, which never trickled down! To me, that's when it started changing and LIBERAL was used as a dirty word! We have yet to recover from ALL THEIR LIES!!

I could go on and on, but I really think it's "I got mine, you get yours" now! Monied people seem to just want more, and our politicians are forced to get more every election just to win! When I think about the billions of dollars that are spent by all the congressmen during elections, it's mind boggling! Think of what all that money could do if it were used for better purposes!

[MnFats]

48. mend, chici, thank you. people do not seem to realize..

...that the hippie ethic was one of freedom, equality and equal rights and a rejection of violence, war, materialism and flat-out greed.
....yeah, I was one too.
....we should be so lucky as to have such a movement today.

[stillcool]

8. Well....once upon a time....

...many years ago, some very prominent people got together and decided to pool their resources and affect policy and influence. Their stories can be found here: http://watch.pair.com/cnp.html#latin
and they were the only ones to live happily ever after...

http://www.serendipity.li/cia.html

[welshTerrier2]

9. "If It Were Up to Me"

your question made me think of this song by Cheryl Wheeler:

"If It Were Up to Me"
by Cheryl Wheeler

Maybe it's the movies, maybe it's the books

Maybe it's the bullets, maybe it's the real crooks

Maybe it's the drugs, maybe it's the parents

Maybe it's the colors everybody's wearin'

Maybe it's the president, maybe it's the last one

Maybe it's the one before that, what he done

Maybe it's the high schools, maybe it's the teachers

Maybe it's the tattooed children in the bleachers

Maybe it's the Bible, maybe it's the lack

Maybe it's the music, maybe it's the crack

Maybe it's the hairdos, maybe it's the TV

Maybe it's the cigarettes, maybe it's the family

Maybe it's the fast food, maybe it's the news

Maybe it's divorce, maybe it's abuse

Maybe it's the lawyers, maybe it's the prisons

Maybe it's the Senators, maybe it's the system

Maybe it's the fathers, maybe it's the sons

Maybe it's the sisters, maybe it's the moms

Maybe it's the radio, maybe it's road rage

Maybe El Nino, or UV rays

Maybe it's the army, maybe it's the liquor

Maybe it's the papers, maybe the militia

Maybe it's the athletes, maybe it's the ads

Maybe it's the sports fans, maybe it's a fad

Maybe it's the magazines, maybe it's the Internet

Maybe it's the lottery, maybe it's the immigrants

Maybe it's taxes, big business

Maybe it's the KKK and the skinheads

Maybe it's the communists, maybe it's the Catholics

Maybe it's the hippies, maybe it's the addicts

Maybe it's the art, maybe it's the sex

Maybe it's the homeless, maybe it's the banks

Maybe it's the clearcut, maybe it's the ozone

Maybe it's the chemicals, maybe it's the car phone

Maybe it's the fertilizer, maybe it's the nose rings

Maybe it's the end, but I know one thing.

If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns.

[radio4progressives]

10. may i ask how old you are?

just curious...

[Flabbergasted]

11. Sure if you tell me why you want to know?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Probably because it is like wierd to blame 'hippies'.

At least from the perspective of those of us who actually lived through the 60's/70's.

[Flabbergasted]

13. I'm personally not blaming the hippies. I was trying to get feedback on

something that is on my mind alot: Societal trends and such. I didn't get the discussion I was hoping for but oh well.

You can easilly draw the conclusion that the "immorality" perceived in society compared with pre-sixties, as a direct result of liberalism or in other words "if it feels good do it" mentality. Or do your own thing mentality.

There may be a certain amount of validity to this opinion but I view the dichotomy between right and left thinking to be an important balance in society. Each side at certain times can be right about the same issue. Democracies work well in this respect but utterly fail to find balance if they have rigged elections.

In the end I think it comes down to Money. I don't think its about political or personal philosophies but the almighty dollar.




"I'm ancient."

[radio4progressives]

30. Forcing Me to State the Obvious?

Ok. first, I'll need to confess that i deleted three responses which were all in the mode of outrage and incredulity, of the nature of the question.

I reconsidered, because it occurred to me that it was actually possible that you were not a bush bot freeper intending to promulgate bullshit..

but that it is actually possible that you have no genuine sense of the history because either you were not alive at the time, or old enough to observe events for yourself.

It also reminded me that our media and education system is a complete and dismal failure in teaching our real history, as evidenced in text books, and in the Corporate MSM.

So, in order to attempt to get at why in hell such a piece of right wing propaganda would be promulgated here, i thought i should at least determine whether or not you are innoncent, too young to remember (or if you even had yet been born) whereby such a post is not only forgivable, but also understandable.

And only then, should I (as a member of the era in subject heading)answer the question you posed with some level of emotional detachment and to perhaps provide reference links of revelence and import germane to the socio-economic and political dynamics of the times, as well as over all history of Left movements in the past 140 years or so.

You'll need to do a lot of reading and it's in that volume of work where you'll find answers to questions which still need to be addressed - and questions that still have yet to be answered.

[Flabbergasted]

33. Why are you viewing things in Black and White

I never stated my opinion in the first thread. I was asking for opinions on the subject. Its something that fascinates me. I love to observe and study societal and world trends. Its one of my passions. Actually I believe its worth asking difficult questions. I wish there were more deeper discussions about political and personal philosophies here but I guess thats not what this site is for.

I am actively promoting Bush's impeachment by the way. I am pretty much a moderate socialist. I destest Bush and his presidency.

In addition even if you knew how old I was or how much knowledge I have why would it really matter. I am here to learn as well as teach. This was one of the cornerstones of the 60's: "Young People have something to say" exemplified in a thousand folk songs.

This country or world will never come together as long as we are constantly battling each other on every minor point.

Sorry I gave you the the wrong idea. I put the root cause of our current societal situation being money.

Loosen up

[radio4progressives]

39. Follow the Money...

that's a good place to start.

If you happened to watch C-Span this afternoon, all the answers anyone really needs to know about what is going now and what has been going on for the past decade and half and longer was talked about by Jeff Faux who is out hawking a book recently published called The Global Class War: How America's Bipartisan Elite Lost Our Future—and What It Will Take to Win It Back

link: http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/books_global_class_war

[Flabbergasted]

43. Thanks for the input

[radio4progressives]

58. you're quite welcome...

lots of important events that occured during those times, and have carried on over these past decades, but the woes and ills for what we continue to experience - is directly related to those who are in power now - they were in and out of power then - same players, many are even the same individuals.

the domestic spying apparatus was active then, and has remained active despite attempts by the Church committee and Congress in the late seventies to end these programs as you are aware, they continued secretly throughout the decades.

and on a side note: whose to say that the democratic party campaign committees were not again sabatogued because they were once again being wire tapped among other things even though they brought down Nixon, it continued none the less?

[Warpy]

14. Well, since the hippies had mostly disappeared by the mid 70s

and been replaced by long haired low class dopes (hippies were nothing if not literate) and since the liberals have been shut out of power since Johnson left office, I think we can place the blame squarely where it belongs: Republicanism, Calvinism, and unregulated capitalism, all of which kill hope.

It looks really silly to me when they shriek and fulminate against the evils of liberalism, something that the country hasn't experienced since 1968 and something which the young turks in the GOP are too young ever to have experienced.

That dog just won't hunt no mo'. It's high time we rise up and tell them where the blame lies.

[Mythsaje]

63. I was a neo-hippy, then...

I was a long haired LITERATE who came of age in the eighties who grew up around former hippies. Maybe that explains why I'm here.

:D

[sandnsea]

16. The disintegration of economic foundations

I would suspect all you have to do is map it from 1955 or so. As major industries left various areas, poverty and crime increased. The crime in the 70's was directly related to the increase in the teen-20's population; but instead of making that connection and adjusting our social programs for it, we went for the "tough on crime" approach which set us up for complete collapse as industries in many cities went south, then out of the country altogether. Collapse of community, isolation, when fighting to live in an expensive country; bound to lead to drugs, gangs, crime, mental illness. They've done studies of immigrants and their mental illness rate increases the longer they're here too. We do it to ourselves.

[omega minimo]

17. PLEASE DON'T FEED

:thumbsdown:

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

18. The doers of the nasty stuff are responsible for the nasty stuff.

Anything else is like 'The devil made me do it!'

"the hippies" were also a somewhat diverse group, so generalisations may not work well.

Many at college campuses considered ourselves in that category, but there were also concentrations such as in Haight Ashbury in San Francisco. Same values, but not necessarily as cerebral.

[Neil Lisst]

21. "The Hippies?!"

The hippies were one part of the social earthquakes through which the nation went from 1962 to 1972. They weren't a cause, but merely one symptom, one indicator of that which was taking place.

The nation was coming out of the Republican 1950s, a decade of rigidity, which, ironically, produced rock & roll before it got really crazy in the 1960s. It was a nation of black and white, separate and unequal. It was a nation of black and white TV shows with black and white values.

The 1960s arrived in full color, and black suits with black ties were on the way out.

Hippies may be emblematic, but they were an effect, not a cause, of the 1960s and that which has followed.

[rman]

22. The hippy movement was all but destroyed some 40 years ago,

ever since the RW has been gaining power while society has been going down the drain. Supply-side economics, privitization, deregulation, globalization, continued exploitation of poor nations, resource wars, corporate- and media conglomeration, infotainment, scare-mongering by the RW. That's what happened, and it is continuing.

[iconocrastic]

38. As opposed to the drug addiction and group sex of the hippies

who were going down the drain at a pretty quick rate themselves. Seems like if the hippies were "destroyed" - they themselves might have had something to do with it.

Else they turned to making money when they grew up - take your pick.

If the hippie movement was rebellion against the rigidity of the 1950s as someone above suggested - how would corporatism destroy it? - unless they decided to join it. So where were their deep convictions?

Social movements are way beyond the control of any individual or groups. You might as well look to astrology for an explanation.

The mistake is to assume that we can fix social trends once we fix the blame.

The only answer begins with oneself, and if enough people begin with themselves, society gets better. Few are interested in that, but prefer to condemn and regulate everyone else. Theories are plenty and misery loves company. Healthy and happy people are very few.

[rman]

50. Social movements are group movements, can be affected by other

group movements.

"The population has been very carefully excluded from the political arena and the general dominant culture. That's not by accident, a lot of work went into this. Elites were terrified by the 60's; this outburst of popular participation and democracy and so on. And there was this huge counter-campaign to drive it back."
- Noam Chomsky, Democracy Now


COINTELPRO was a program of the national political police, carried out through four administrations, with a very wide range of targets… ranging in methods up to direct political assassination. It was formally terminated after it was exposed in the courts in the early 70s. Responsibility went right up to the White House, through four administrations.

COINTELPRO was vastly more significant than Watergate, which was a tea party in comparison. The difference is that Watergate was annoying to powerful people, who struck back, while COINTELPRO targeted people who were weak, vulnerable, dissident, and in other ways remote from centers of power. Therefore anything done to them passes without concern among those who matter. As we have seen for 30 years, and see right now.

[iconocrastic]

52. So COINTELPRO "destroyed the hippie movement"?

Because they attacked the Weathermen et al?

The hippies were non-violent. The Civil Rights movement went mainstream.

[rman]

55. Cointelpro-like ops re drugs,

and other 'perversions', to create in the public mind the impression that hippies are perverted - one of several means applied to discredit the movement. The 'militant' angle may have been less successfull, but even to this day hippies are ridiculed for one reason or another by much of the population. So on the whole the counter movement by the elite is quite successfull.

[radio4progressives]

57. Civil Rights Movement wasn't Mainstream in the South.. it was Radical

I grew up in the South at the time of civil rights movement, and I have to say what was going on was considered very RADICAL..

so, was it considered "mainstream" in the rest of the country? I think the objectives didn't really became "mainstream" until years of struggle for civil rights, vis a vis voting rights act, and until when affirmative action was established. that's when it seemed to become mainstream to me.. maybe it's just my lens.. (?)

[AngryAmish]

23. The Baby Boomers ruined America

bush is a baby Boomer, for example.

There have nevr been a more vicous and rapacious group of people in history than the Baby Boomers. Comsume and destroy is their mantra.

The best part is when they try to defend themselves. "It is not me" they cry when they are raping the earth and are happy to consume everything.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

24. The group that fits your criteria is not baby boomers. Hippies

were baby boomers.

Rummy isn't a baby boomer.

Substitute neocons for baby boomers, and you've got it.

Baby boomers include a very large segment of very liberal, very caring, very ready for change, compassion, and open-mindedness.

[misternormal]

26. The Hippies...

... were the younger generation of the '60s... They were tired of the political stance and the repressiveness of the '50s and wanted change. Where some were not as well read as others, they were open to new ideas, and were by their very nature passionate about those ideas.

Things really changed when the idea of "Me" instead of "Us", became popular in the '70s. What can I get that everyone else would envy, and want to rush out and buy one too? It continues when rock stars and athletes, (I know I'll get flamed on this one), started making more money than they knew what to do with. Further on down the road, musicians that have 15 cars and a plasma TV in every room of their house, (As shown on MTV's "cribs"), and the younger generation now is more worried about having an i-pod or a cell phone, than what is going on in the world around them.

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam,
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown.
Know it that soon you'll be
Drenched to the bone,
If your time to you is
Worth savin'...
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone,
For the times,
They are a' changin'

Bob Dylan

I'm 54 by the way, and hippie till I die.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

27. The Times They Were A Changin'

tired of the political stance and the repressiveness of the '50s and wanted change

Yes, and We were tired of the hypocrisy that allowed the disparities of income and rights to continue in our one nation under God, with freedom and liberty for all.

We were fed up with "values" that were about what words you use, what you did behind closed doors, what you owned, etc instead of about taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves. And of not fighting wars that the local populace doesn't want us fighting, ie Vietnam.

Tired of hearing about the wonderful 50's when segregation, lynchings, etc were the norm.

We wanted to be with nature, more in harmony with nature, more honest, more caring.

Adding on edit:

I think many in our generation were also angry that we were growing up in a nuclear weapons dominated world. Growing up knowing that population of the planet could be annihilated in one instant of bad judgment.

Angry that we were inheriting that world.

And the juxtaposition of that with all the other hypocrisies, violences against various peoples, etc only made the whole thing worse.

I think it was Eisenhower who agreed that at the height of the Vietnam conflict, the populace would have voted in favor of Ho Chi Minh, who was the boogieman of the right wing, Nixon crowd at the time. Ho Chi Minh of North Vietnam.

[immoderate]

34. Yes indeed! This fits with my post #32 below.

--IMM

[marions ghost]

28. boomers = the greatest evil

:rofl:

[Neil Lisst]

29. all such generational generalities are silly

And they reveal little more than the bias of those who try to sell them.

[radio4progressives]

31. Excuse Me, but I'm a "Baby Boomer" - and Bush is Son of Robber Barons

in any era..

I'm a baby boomer just like most everyone i relate to who are not about "me", but are about the well being of communities, nations and the world.

please people... stop promulgating stereo-type ignorance.

[immoderate]

35. Outrageous! To cite Bush as an example of baby boomers...

Is like saying Mussolini exemplifies the WWII generation. You should delve a little deeper into history...

--IMM

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

37. A little deeper, hmm.

I'd be inclined to say explore history and the facts some vs not at all. The OP seems to be a history pulled out of nowhere based on nothing.

Except a conglomeration of oft heard cliches thrown together in inaccurate ways.

[immoderate]

40. Enough misinformation to stir up a ruckus! LOL

Yes.

--IMM

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

42. Yep. Sure is. n/t

[Aaaargh]

41. Can you justify this claim with ANYTHING?

Any specific contention, or batch of contentions? Any detailed comparisons with earlier times and earlier generations -- or, more significantly still, with Americans born in the era after the 'baby boom'? 'Baby-boomers' are more shallow than those who came after them in this country? How so?

If you can't respond with any relevant information, then what you're saying is just silly-ass BS, an empty corporate-media cliche.

[raccoon]

56. That's some very black and white thinking there, AngryAmish.

Looks like you could do with some therapy.

Probably all you know about baby boomers you learned from the TV.

[abbiehoff]

59. I think you'll find many baby boomers on this site.

We were the hippies, the liberal political activists that fought against the military industrial complex that has once more taken over the running of this country. Where are the hippies when you need them?

The biggest reason that the young people (baby boomers) of the 60s rebelled, was that they were being sent in large numbers to be killed in Vietnam for no particular reason. The difference between Vietnam and Iraq (among other things) is that there was a draft, taking our youth and sending them to their deaths without any recourse on their part. If a draft were instituted again, which it may well be if our great leader intends to spread democracy much further, perhaps we will see young people become interested in politics again.

[Armstead]

25. The American public was conned by the Corporate CONservatives

It's complicated, but I believe much of it boils down to a basic fact.

A giant Con Job was done on the American public. They were told that the cause of all problems were government and "liberals" (including hippies). They were also told the solution was corporate capitalism, and that "markets" were the source of all wisdom and good in every aspect of life.

A lot of false messages were relentlessly pounded into people's heads by the corporate oligarchs, corporate media, Republicans and the Democratic Establishment.

"You have to make less to be better off." "It's good to ship American jobs overseas. That will make America stronger." "Creating monopolies will preserve competition."

And at the base of it all was the value brilliantly summarized by Oliver Stone: "Greed is good." That was put forth as the ultimte social value.

All of this also helped to undermine real values like community, integrity, dignity and the concept of the public good. All of those were considered expendable becuse they did not contribute to the Bottom Line....it was only logical that there would be rampant increases in drugs and violence (physical and emotional) as a result.

I actually believe that -- even though I disagree with them -- the rise of fundamentalist Christianity is a legitimate reaction against the crassness and alienation and meaningless of the commercial culture.

That, IMO is what's happened in a nutshell. The first step in reversing course, IMO, is beyond politics. It is a matter of reasserting basic human values again, and to create a counterbalance to ruthlessness and the isolation of commercial values.

[immoderate]

32. The Vietnam War and its aftermath...

Reversed a trend of progressive economics and social services brought on by the New Deal and the GI Bill of Rights. As a college student during the sixties, I noticed that the easy money for graduate schools (and social services) during my freshman year had dried up by my senior year. Additionally, inspired by the civil rights movement and the example of John F. Kennedy, many who had planned to enter public service were thwarted by the dearth of funds for those activities and wound up selling insurance policies to each other.

Other trends, such as the consolidation of media, deregulation of industry, busting of the unions, and a general backlash to the anti-war, civil rights, and women's rights movements played into the devolution of progressive attitudes. Then a trend of "blaming the victim," the homeless, the poor, aided by the propaganda machine, the racists, the plutocrat wannabes contributed to the lack of cohesiveness we find in society today. Only the military mindset, prolonged by the cold war was able to dominate public interests.

The hippies did it? Piffle!

--IMM

[leftofthedial]

36. capitalism and capitalist control of what we used to call

government

[leesa]

44. It's a concerted effort by the corporate arms industry to make us live

in constant fear and chaos so we will buy more guns and endorse more war. It's the war machine GE, Westinghouse, etc owning the arms industry and the media to make us afraid and life chaotic. They make crazy amounts of money and we eventually go crazy.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

45. Wow! You missed one...

[Mountainman]

46. I always wonder why people think that today's evil is worse than that of

the past. If you read history you will find out that there has always been good and evil existing side by side. My belief is if more people live a good life there would be less evil. I think you have to look at the individual and not at society. We are responsible for our actions.

[meow2u3]

49. Blame corporate greed

and the infiltration of organized crime into the executive suites.

The mob already milked the unions for all they had, allowing the right to launch propaganda campaigns that turned much of America against unions because of the actions of organized crime (blame the victim, anyone?). Now they're targeting investors, where the money really is, by their pump-and-dump scams. What do you think Enron, WorldCon, and Tyco was? Mob takeovers--that's what. Halliburton is another mob-controlled craporation, and so is the Carlyle Group, which I think IS the WASP-Arab Mafia.

[bklyncowgirl]

51. I wasn't a hippie but I'll agree that my generation has screwed up.

I wasn't a hippie. I wanted to be a hippie, I wore bell-bottoms and tie dye and grew my hair to my waist. A friend and I planned to hitch to Woodstock but our mommies found out and we were grounded. You see I was just a bit too young to actually get into the lifestyle.

There were alot fewer real hippies than you realize. Even in their heyday the real hippies were a distinct minority. They just got great press. There were alot of poseurs. I loved the hippie ideal but alot of the people you saw wearing peace signs had no clue as to what it was all about. It was simply what you wore to be cool and when the 70s rolled around they quickly hopped into leisure suits, put down their bongs, dumped Dylan for the BeeGees and stoked up on coke to keep them dancing through the night. They weren't hippies any more than the white kids you see with their pants down around their butts are gangsta rappers.

Were Dick Cheney, Carl Rove, Tom Delay hippies? Was Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. No, they were members of the Young Republicans, the butt of many a joke on campus, they of the little bow ties and close clipped hair. George Bush wasn't a Young Republican. He was a rich frat boy bully son of a Congressman who's daddy could get him out of anything--including Vietnam.

They were a persecuted minority and I think that this has something to do with their anger and focus because in the 70s when we of the hippie and hippie wannabe persuasion were congratulating ourselves on ending the war they were hard at work building the ultimate revenge--the Revenge of the Dweebs. A talk radio fueled monster that would fulfil the fantasies of everyone who had failed miserably at the high school imperative of being cool, of rubbing their success and power in our faces.

We came of age when the social safety net began to fray. I was one of the last people to attend Brooklyn College tuition free. (Yup Kids, once upon a time in New York, students who made the grade could get a first class college education and their working class parents didn't have to shell out a dime.)

In 1968 it was possible to dream of living without joining the establishment. By 1978 that was pretty much a fantasy for most people. We went to work. The more idealistic went into the social service professions or became independent craftspeople--some of them, god bless 'em even made a living out of it. Others joined the corporate world and did what they had to do to fit in.

As far as politics go, I think too that alot of us who were more idealistic--that is the hippies and the hippie wannabes--find electoral politics to be distasteful. I've always held my nose and voted--and in 2004 for the first time in my life I actually donated money to and worked for a presidential candidate, but I know many who don't because of a deep down conviction that "they're all crooks." There's a deep skepticism there and a hunger for genuine leadership.

Someone once said something to the effect that the worst lack all scruples and the best lack all conviction. That may certainly be true of the baby boomers.

[blindpig]

53. Me-ism

The celebration of the individual was certainly a large component of the Youth Culture of the 60's. In the following decades the Corps, no doubt aided by an influx of superficial hippie types to their ranks, took this and ran with it. Today we have a culture of immediate self-gratification, and how great is that for sales? "Have it your way!" and so on ad nauseum. It is the psychology of the junkie, and who makes a better customer? This same psychology to me explains the apparent upsurge (partially a function of population growth and media reporting)of horrific violence. Some individuals(perhaps fragile to start with) feel that it's OK to do what ever act gratifies them or will lead to gratification very soon.

IMHO this would not have been possible without television.

And this old hippie says that that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

[OnionPatch]

54. I've had this argument more times than I care to think about

the most notable one being with an old Texan friend (?). He was always on that blame-the-hippies bandwagon even as he wore long hair and smoked pot daily. :eyes: What I told him was this:

I believe the 60's and the hippy generation was one of the best things that ever happened to this country. When I think about the things that the 60's generation brought about I know I'm very, very happy and proud to be a part of this generation. Sure we may not have done everything perfectly but tell me which generation did? The 60's brought about a lot of positive change, IMO.

People were suddenly freer in so many ways and so many more opportunities were opened to all.

Women were free to choose a career instead of just dream about what could have been while they folded laundry. They were free to escape from abusive husbands if need be. Free to plan for their families instead of just having them happen. Other minorities gained many rights as well because of the new open-minded culture.

We now have better art and music, more diverse foods (because suddenly it was accepted to explore cultural differences.) Even love got better because people were allowed to love who they wanted, be they a different color or the same sex. We became more open about sex and love and were able to talk about and work out a many problems instead of just living with them in quiet desperation.

People woke up to environmental problems as well in those days and there was a refreshing focus on protecting our environment that still lives on today.

For the first time in history people rose up in masses in opposition to a war and started questioning oppressive governments and the need for war at all.

I could go on....

[VaYallaDawg]

60. Even old Ike tried to warn everybody back in the '50s.

Beware of the industrial-military complex. We've got it big time, and now it owns most of the country.

[abbiehoff]

61. Defense is the one industry that we probably won't offshore.

The American economy is very tightly tied up in the defense industry. We've sent much manufacturing and intellectual work to other countries, but we still build our own planes, tanks, bombs, etc. We need to make war to keep the economy going. So we borrow 500 billion dollars from the Chinese to kill Iraqis so that we can keep GE, Boeing, Halliburton, Bechtel, etc. in the chips.

It's too bad we can't borrow 500 billion from the Chinese to build housing and schools and hospitals for our own people. And in the meantime employ people to build and run them. I think the day is coming when a young person's only choice is working for Walmart or a defense contractor, or else joining the military.

Yes. I know I'm generalizing and simplifying.

[LiberalEsto]

62. For some of it, thank Reagan and the Iran-Contra gang

They helped flood the streets with crack cocaine smuggled in and sold to fund their political skulduggery. I'm sure one of their motives was to wreck African-American communities.

The national crack epidemic destroyed individuals, families and communities, leaving behind addicts, orphans and poverty. Its effects can still be seen today in places like Baltimore, where adddicts have switched to heroin.

[MadMaddie]

64. Reagan and Reaganomics is what happened....

that's when it really changed...

Trickle down theory...
Deregulation....
Aids crisis ignored...(This made it all right for the conservatives to really hate gays)
Willy Horton....
Contract with America....
and the list goes on...