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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:06 PM
Original message
why is everyone so surprised by the violent reaction to that cartoon?
How else would you expect crazy people to act? And what gives with everyone acting like Americans would never get like that? If I were the French Ambassador and blew my nose with an American flag on Larry King's show, how many Americans, if given the chance, would become violent towards me or other French?

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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome to DU holdyour breath
Ture. How soon we forget the France bashing when they said they would not go to war with Iraq. People were pouring wine into gutters (instead of my mouth) and drew hateful cartoons about the Statue of Liberty. Anyone had any "freedom fries" lately?
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. How can we compare that
to murdering four or five (including the priest, I guess) people and burning down buildings?

Freedom fries was silly but it wasn't violent.
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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm talking about the reaction there would be IF I blew my nose
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Are you 100% sure about that?
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Caoimhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. there is no excuse for violence
people cannot hurt you unless you let them. There is never a reason to harm innocent people because you are offended by something someone else said, or drew.
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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well, DUH. you say that like you're speaking to a sane person.
again, my point is that crazy people are irrational and don't use reason and logic and listening skills. "Obviously". .....so why does everyone keep acting like we should expect more from people who we already know are crazy?
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. You're right - ignorant people everywhere.
Edited on Tue Feb-07-06 06:21 PM by CJCRANE
Just look at Iraq - there are millions of Americans convinced that Iraqis did 9-11.

What's worse is that even some US troops believe that they're killing Iraqis to avenge 9-11.

(If anyone has the link to the "Marlboro Man" interview, he mentions this).
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Would not cause riots in the streets or attacks on your embassy.
Big difference here.

If the French Ambassador did what you suggest, it would sure become and incident, but I doubt you would see Americans burning down your embassy.

When is the last time you saw Americans rioting in front of embassies anyhow?
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. But like my point above -
different people react to different things: freepers are quite happy to support a war on people (Iraqis) who've done nothing against them simply because they're ignorant and been manipualted into believing Iraqis did 9-11.
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Caoimhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. yes, I remember Sinead O'Conner ripping up
the Pope's picture, and I don't think anyone died from the violent upheaval. Maybe I just forget.

This is just an excuse to rally anti-US/anti-European sentiment. I see it as no different than funnymentalists who shoot Planned Parenthood doctors. There is never an excuse for violence, religiously inspired or not.
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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. stop saying there's never an excuse for violence. THAT's not the issue
the issue, again, is that crazy people are beyond civil discourse, so we need to be more careful and stop acting like they play by the rules. ...and the Sinead O'connor thing is not equivalent since, a) she totally did it as a rogue, and, b) she was totally denounced by the masses. ...and it's just not as egregious as that cartoon was (from the point of view of crazy people).
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I stood up and cheered for Sinead when she did that.
That was a great moment, and took great courage.
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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. when's the last time a foreigner with a soapbox did something that
egregious?
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. How soon we forget.
Edited on Tue Feb-07-06 06:38 PM by mrcheerful
Remember the artist that put a cross in a glass of urine and took a picture of it? The self righteous christens were not only protesting outside of the galleries door, they were also calling for the artist to be jailed and that the government stop all funding to the arts. Or how about the boring christ movie that made more money then it should have because of the righteous being inflamed that someone showed christs as a human being. Seems that some only blame muslims and forget all fanatics of christen religions. They are all the same, its just a matter of how far they will take things. BTW, most christens would and have taken things as far as murder and arson and bombing buildings and people. In the last 30 years.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. MOST Christians?
"BTW, most christens would and have taken things as far as murder and arson and bombing buildings and people."

MOST Christians would and have done such things? Really?
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Fundies, I don't think of other christens as anything but people
and never think about them being christen. A persons religious beliefs are up to them until they put it in my face.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I wouldn't even say "most" fundies have done such things.
The fanatics are more likely to be fundamentalists, but that doesn't mean "most" fundamentalists would or have resorted to things like arson and murder.

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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Then your not listening to what fundies are teaching their kids. Think
how the fundies are teaching hate and violence to the kids. Gays deserve to be murdered, abortion doctors should be executed and abortion clinics should be closed or burned. This is the stuff that muslims been teaching thier kids and now look at them for where the fundies are headed.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You are taking the actions of a minority and extrapolating them
to mean "most" of a given population. It's simply not true.

I agree with you that many fundamentalists teach bigotry to their children. That doesn't mean most of them are murderers. Nor are most muslims.
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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. you're damn right that Christ movie was BORING!
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Actually, I think
your example proves my earlier point. As I remember the cross/urine photo and the NEA, people wrote letters, demonstrated, called for reduced funding, (I don't remember calls that he be jailed, but it could have been) and boycotted. That's how people with freedom of expression handle dissent. Or rather, how they should.

Have we, in this culture, ever gone over the top? Sure we have, and we deserve criticism for it. We've been known in this country to riot and lynch and do all sorts of dastardly things.

But these folks are out of control, in my opinion, and it isn't a good thing.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Muslims around the world are offended. They can't ALL be crazy.
Gee, maybe there is something to that cultural sensitivity stuff.

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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Crazy like a Moooslim?
Or just the ones who did the attacking?

How broad is the brush you wield?
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Shipwack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ahh... I love it when the bigots step into the light...
Saying that the riots are over a cartoon (riots which I don't condone, of course)is like saying the Paris riots were solely over the police chase and death of one youth, or that the L.A. riots were only about Rodney King. There is more here than some outrage by a few Muslims, carefully nurtured by unscrupulous leaders who want to channel it to increase their own power.

Are you saying that all Muslims are crazy? What about the thousands over the world who are -peacefully- protesting? Those don't make the news because they aren't exciting enough, and the thought of a peaceful arab protest won't fuel the home agenda of persuading people that middle eastern people are "crazy" and freedom hating.

If a major newspaper published a political cartoon mocking Jesus, you can bet your hood that Pat Robertson and many others would call for protests, and a few right-wing pundits would "wish" out loud that the artists and newspaper owners would be "accidentally" raped and shot, etc. I do doubt that Americans would riot over it though. After all, we're civilized in America, right? We only riot over important things, like when our sports team loses, or when our sports team wins... hmmmm...
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holdyourbreath Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. actually, my original post referred to the VIOLENT reaction, hence,
when I'm talking about the crazies I'm only referring to the ones who got violent.
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Shipwack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. ok, now that you have clarified it a bit
(or now that my reading skills have gotten better), I apologise for talking as if you were saying that -all- muslims were crazy.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Kind of like here on DU
"If a major newspaper published a political cartoon mocking Jesus, you can bet your hood that Pat Robertson and many others would call for protests, and a few right-wing pundits would "wish" out loud that the artists and newspaper owners would be "accidentally" raped and shot, etc. I do doubt that Americans would riot over it though. After all, we're civilized in America, right? We only riot over important things, like when our sports team loses, or when our sports team wins... hmmmm."



So many times here when we get reports that someone on the right has cancer, is in the hospital, has a troubled child...we hear lightly or even un-veiled comments hoping they die and go to hell, yada yada.

We're all nasty creeps now and then, huh?
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Shipwack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. All too true, granny... myself included. (NT)
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