Skull & Bones vs Skull & Bones could actually turn out to be a good thing

[Wonk]

for the Green Party. Maybe they can crack that 5% nationally that they were trying for last time and qualify for federal matching funds :think:

This thread was partially inspired by a comment someone else made in another thread here. They said "We don't need to rally Democrats/progressives. We own them. We need independents and crossover Republicans."

Any thoughts on this?

http://www.gp.org

[lcordero]

1. I don't think that it's right to assume that anybody "owns"

anybody.
That remark is as irresponsible as the loyalty oaths tries that go on around here. The remark just stinks of entitlement.

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

30. the media owns the eyes 'n minds of the sheeple.

dont vote for the loser is the mantra of the polltakers.

take back america and forward my signature line links to everyone u know. hurry.

[onebigbadwulf]

2. Yeah I'd throw my vote away for a 3rd party

if Kerry won the nomination.

[Eric J in MN]

6. Anybody But Bush. Don't let the Supreme Court move FURTHER right.

Anybody But Bush. Don't let the Supreme Court move FURTHER right.

I respect that there are lots of reasons to hesitate about John Kerry, but please don't help George W. Bush appoint 3 Supreme Court justices, who will be with us for 30-40 years.

[sangha]

3. IMO, Kerry's SnB background is a Good Thing

He knows their methods. He knows their codes.

[last1standing]

17. Do you really believe...

that Kerry joined S&B and found out all their secrets, just so that thirty or so years later he would know their codes and methods? Why is it so hard to understand that he joined it because it would be useful for his career? It was a way of ensuring he would have the contacts necessary to build a powerful political career. If you think that's a good thing vote for him, if you don't, vote for someone else. Don't try to rationalize the fact that Kerry has used every advantage he was offered to obtain the presidency. Personally, I say it's no different than Bill Clinton who also made most of his decisions with an eye on his political career and there's nothing wrong with either of them for doing so. I'm just not willing to romanticize their decisions.

[sangh0]

32. So what?

Even if he did join SnB to further his career, the fact remains that he learned what they teach.

Don't try to rationalize the fact that Kerry has used every advantage he was offered to obtain the presidency.

There's no need to "rationalize" his decision because only irrational decisions need to be "rationalized". Nect thing yo uknow, you're going to accuse Kerry of going to college to further his career. That evil bastard!! :-)

[MasonJar]

4. Great! Then when we get George "no left or right brain" Bush

again, you can feel proud that you kept Kerry out.

[windansea]

5. the founding fathers

[Algorem]

20. hey there's Geronimo( who got his skull stolen by Prescott Bush )again.

[mrdmk]

7. Want to read up on Skull and Bones

Go Here

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc794.html

[KC21304]

9. It sure is a good thing Kerry bashers don't have to pay

everytime they run that Bull and Scones thing up the flagpole.

[mrdmk]

15. Ah, you are being sensitive

Here is my concern; in 1980 this country took a serious turn to the right politically speaking (that was the year Reagan was elected). Twelve years later the country turned left with the house, senate, and the presidency. Two years later the house had turned right and did not look back. The Senate was next and then was the presidency. At this time the DLC leaders are the same people who were in power in 1994. This country is into serious side to the right (fanaticism with religious and constitution trashing all to boot) with no brakes at the moment. Do I think any of the candidates can stop this? Well maybe, huh, big maybe. All of them have their pluses and all of them have minuses. Some seem stronger in the area working for the many than the few, but will they be able to grab a hold of the reins and turn the tide. There is motion here that started in Washington D.C. has seem to have worked its way right down to the local communities and also right across the world. Are any of these candidates 100% foolproof? No! What we need to start in this country is to make sure who this government works for, the people.

[Algorem]

8. The first of America's 3rd parties:The Anti-Masonic Party,formed in the

late 1820's.I think they had the first national political convention.

[KC21304]

10. I would like to see that thread.

[Chicago Democrat]

11. Suppose Kerry is a Good Skull & Bones?

Every organization has its political wings, and Skull and Bones is no exception. Kerry voted to let women in Skull and Bones. All Skull and Bones members are not right-wing Neo cons.

The reason Kerry is so 'presidential' and worldly is because he was raised in the most elite schools and has traveled the world. He was a star early on and Skull and Bones just the kind of place he would want to join. Kerry's forte has always been foreign policy and foreign intelligence. Skull and Bones is all about grooming leaders in foreign policy and and intelligence. These are complex issues and area that require discretion and experience. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that, yes Kerry is part of the elite, but his heart is with the ordinary man.

And thats what really matters.

John F Kennedy was like that. There are many parallels between Kennedy and Kerry, mostly positive. Kerry is like an older, wiser, less horny version of Kennedy, and after the Clinton fiasco that may be a good thing.

I'm still undecided, but would be happy if Kerry was the nominee.

[windansea]

12. great points

welcome to DU

:toast:

[KC21304]

13. Thanks for a thoughtful post,

but I'm afraid it is not black and white enough for some here. The ones who wouldn't mind another 4 years of Bush if it would send a message.

[Algorem]

18. bad fiction.he is waaay older though.

[Indiana Democrat]

14. It's a NON--ISSUE!

The only place I see it mentioned is here. No one in the real world cares.

[Algorem]

19. real world?what? is DU another planet?highlarious!

[Overkil]

16. Kerry's heart is with the common man?

he was raised in the most elite schools and has traveled the world........ yes Kerry is part of the elite, but his heart is with the ordinary man.

He's worth $164 million according to the financial disclosure forms he filled out. That makes him not just part of the elite but the elite of the elite & the top 1% of the top 1%. I have a hard time beliving he has any idea what the ordinary person goes through. You said it yourself - raised in the most elite schools, traveled the world, etc. Throw in the katchup money and it climbs to well over $500 million.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/06/13/senators.finances/

...Teresa Heinz Kerry, heir to the Heinz food fortune, is estimated to be worth more than $500 million....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/16/politics/main558862.shtml

[NYC]

21. I think the following sentence

...They said "We don't need to rally Democrats/progressives. We own them. We need independents and crossover Republicans."...

explains why Democrats turn Green.

[mrdmk]

22. The wifey did

And I am an Independent, I have yet to be impressed.

[KC21304]

25. Who said that ? I am still waiting for the thread where that

supposedly was said.

[Wonk]

26. I hope the mods don't consider this me "calling someone out"...

for posting this link.

You can stop calling me a liar anytime now, Kerryfan.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=242888&mesg_id=242937

[KC21304]

31. So asking you to provide a link is calling you a liar ?

Do you think telling DU'ers that I have been calling you a liar is appropriate ?

[John_H]

23. Oh. Ma. God. Like, couldn't Kerry, like, get in a cule house?

Like Ralph Nader, for example: Blokka Union Now, whose motto is "Fidelity, Fidelity, and more Fidelity."

[Ardee]

24. 5% is the first goal only

All this talk about Kerry's wealth makes me reflect back on another presidential candidate who was not exactly a poor guy. John Fitzgerald Kennedy had a few shekels too and, by and large, he was a populist.

It aint Kerry's wealth or his club affiliations that makes me adverse to his candidacy its his voting record and position on the issues.

Now back to the original question. I think that the Green Party will certainly get their 5% this election based upon two factors; the nature of the democratic opposition to Bush and the increasing irrelevancy of the Democratic Party to those on the left.



edited for clumsy early morning fingers......

[salin]

27. er - question - what does your title

have to do with the cited inspiration for the thread (the "we own" progressive votes... statement) Are you suggesting that while Kerry is a liberal senator - the sk&B association somehow makes him vying for the center and ignoring liberals? or that somehow all progressives are all put on edge by S&B (read contrary to that here on the boards)? Help me - I am not putting the two items together - sorta feels like a nonsequitor.

[Wonk]

28. The quote was from a bigtime Kerry supporter (and S&B 'horse laugh'er)

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

[salin]

29. ah - I try not to take out my irritation

with the more zealous supporters of a candidate - and their sometimes intemperate condemnation of other duers and progressives - on the candidate himself. There seem to be a few who can irk the many in the camp of each candidate.

btw - I might have to cast myself as an s&b discounter - it simply is not an issue of import in my book.

[tigereye]

34. I understand the desire to want to vote for a candidate

who most mirrors one's values. However, the "they are all the same,it makes no difference, they are all rich elites," does not hold water for me. And the repercussions are terrible.

Point in case, in the 80s, when many of my left housemates hoped the election of Reagan would "start the revolution." Did not occur. Reagan was terrible.

Although I agree with many of Nader's views and wish that we had a viable third party or coalition/parlimantary system, I feel that we have Bush as a result of some of this thinking. This is sad. Gore WOULD have been better than Bush, re: justices at all court levels, environmental policy, foreign policy, real diversity, labor laws, concern for lifting all boats, not just yachts, etc. There is a difference. I wish it were not such a dilemma, one should be able to vote one's conscience. But the repercussions are so large. Especially after the last election. JMO

[KC21304]

35. You would think that Democrats would not need to

be throwing around subjective words like elitist, insider, outsider. These terms are meaningless except to smear someone. Isn't it funny to see these " outsiders " desperate to become " insiders " ?

Now S&B and botox. Those are the really important issues today. LOL

[Hep]

33. It'll be a great thing

for the status quo. That's quicksand you're soaking in.