If cigarette smoke is a "toxic pollutant", shouldn't SALE of cigarettes

[SoCalDem]

be banned completely and the "products" taken off the market? We did it with DDT.. Could the states be legislating themselves out of all that lucartive sin-tax money, if they keep this up?

[SPKrazy]

1. Let's Ban Them

Worked so well with Alcohol in the 20's

Has worked so well with other drugs

:sarcasm:

[DanCa]

2. ....

I dont like smoke but I like the idea of ban less. Simply put i can tell people what they do. I wont tell someone what color shirt to wear. I wont tell them how to lives there lives. And I especially dont like it when the government dictates how a person should live. The very thought makes my skin crawl.

[SPKrazy]

4. Danca did you see the "sarcasm" in my post,

:sarcasm:

[DanCa]

11. Yeah I did the post wasn't directed at you.

I am sorry if it sounded like that I am way punchy today. Let me know if were good.

[eShirl]

3. haven't you anti-smoking people done enough as it is?

how about we ban something you like, too

[SPKrazy]

5. Read my post if you are directing your post at me (#1)

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[mntleo2]

8. Great Idea ~ Make Smokers Into Criminals

Yeah, that's right, those private industrial prisons NEED more slave labor and plus the taxpayor gets to spend more of their tax dollars making a few people even more rich AND they get to see smokers made into lifelong criminals!

Oh yeah that's right, great idea! :sarcasm:

Cat In Seattle

[SPKrazy]

13. Watch out, apparently people don't read the posts anymore

just the subject line

so prepare to get flamed, not by me

I thought your post was funny in its sarcasm

[win_in_06]

26. Sarcasm is not funny if you have to flag it

kinda loses its flavor

[SPKrazy]

43. Thanks for your insight!

:spray:

[SoCalDem]

29. I'd be looking forward to the looks on faces when people realized

that the "lost" tax revenues WOULD be made up somehow.. can y'all say higher taxes for everyone.. The smokers, who would probably finally give it up if it was illegal, would suddenly HAVE more money, and the reast of the people who have been skating on taxes that we smokers have ponied up for years, would have to start feeding the kitty:):evilgrin:

[SPKrazy]

44. Since A Lot Of Those Taxes Go To Medicaid

There would not need to be as many taxes raised.

See that's what people don't get, smoking costs billions in healthcare dollars for preventable diseases.

You reduce those diseases and you don't need to raise as much revenue, but I know, that just makes too much sense!

[joefree1]

10. Let's ban cars or TV

Cars Pollute way more then cigs. TVs are wasting the minds of millions.

Or a segregated areas in restaurants for binge eaters. I got some big Fundie Aunts that wouldn't like that.

[SoCalDem]

20. Um.. I am a smoker

I am just saying that politicians always want it both ways..they are as addicted to the money we give them as we are to the tobacco:grr:. yet they don;t dare go the extra step and just ban the damned stuff ...because they want the MONEY

[win_in_06]

6. That's why smoking bans in restaruants and bars are seen as

unfair to some. Why punish the small businessperson for allowing patrons to use a legal substance?

Non-smokers can vote with their pocketbooks and patronize only smoke-free establishments.

[SPKrazy]

9. Of Course If They Are All Smoke Free

The businesses don't lose money

And even when it is the choice of a small business owner to go non-smoking, if it is a good restaurant, people will go there regardless.

[High Plains]

17. Except from the people who decide to stay home.

[SPKrazy]

34. Yeah, people who smoke decide to stay home and cook instead of going

out to eat

Like I'm going to believe that bullshit

[SoCalDem]

35. Believe it.. We used to eat out 2 or 3 times a week

and since the ban, we eat out a couple of times a month.. and we only go to the ones with an outdoor patio (which actually is nicer...no screaming babies or rowdy kids out there..and in CA it's rather "resortish" with the rustling palms and the moon & stars..and a nice breeze).

[SPKrazy]

38. Bwaaahhaaaaaa!

:rofl:

[High Plains]

39. That's a pretty insulting reply to a mild point.

Grow up.

[SPKrazy]

41. Grow Up?

Why?

I don't like smoking

I'm damned glad when anyone bans it in restaurants

I think it is bullshit that people will stop going out to eat if they can't smoke

If a restaurant is good, then people will show up

Tired of the BS about "smokers rights"

I don't even think they should be allowed to smoke outside at a restaurant

public health is more important than individual rights

If I have a contagious disease, I shouldn't be allowed to spread it around freely in the name of my "rights"

Secondhand smoke is DANGEROUS period.

Next

(Grow up?) :rofl:

[spacelady]

46. What in the world are you rolling and laughing about? The "civilization"

where people are peaceful and can get along without demanding everyone be the same, act the same, use the same things, buy the same things, everyone must toe the same line as you?? Well you go on and make that world, friend, and I guarantee it will result in some rules of conduct with which YOU disagree.

[SPKrazy]

48. I Hope It Is Smokefree!

I have no idea what you are talking about.

But whatever!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[spacelady]

51. Well, I would not guarantee it is smoke-free where you will go.

[SPKrazy]

52. So Now You Are Condemning Me To Hell?

WTF?

[spacelady]

56. You said it , I didn't. I symbolically blow smoke in your face. Ha!

[SPKrazy]

59. Feel Better?

Space Case much?

I really don't know what your beef is with me.

Insinuating that I will be in hell

blowing smoke in my face?

What's your deal?

[spacelady]

61. For starters, stating "bullshit" about smokers avoiding non-smoking

restaurants, they most certainly do. Second, thinking that it is okay to totally ban tobacco, and third an abrasive and intolerant attitude toward any group because they are who they are is called prejudice. You certainly do not have to be around smokers when there are plenty of non-smoking venues.

[SPKrazy]

62. Blow Your Smoke Somewhere Else!

Just not in restaurants.

I wish that I lived where smoke was banned

instead I have to breathe that shit if I want to go out to eat

Why is that??????

Because smokers say they have "rights"

the right to poison my air?

Bullshit

[spacelady]

63. Go to non-smoking restaurants! What a concept!

[SPKrazy]

64. I Do, But Why Should Any Of Them Be Smoking When It IS A PUBLIC

Health ISSUE!!!!

Not an individual rights issue


This is so wayyyyyyy beyond that!!!!

Just Get Used To It!

Smoking will be banned from all public places in the not so distant future, not because of some fascist policy, but because it is BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH

Get IT?

[bee]

67. Spacelady is right.

We had our business meetings in Maine at the same place for years, at least 2-3 times a week. When Maine banned smoking, we took our meetings just over the border to NH. That bar lost more than $500 per week in revenue just from our company alone. The restaraunt manager actually came to my office to ask why we stopped having meetings there. Guess it wasnt "bullshit" to them. oh well.

And since you brought up things that are bad for your health... shall we make it illegal to be fat?

CDC: Obesity approaching tobacco as top preventable cause of death
In 2000, poor diet including obesity and physical inactivity caused 400,000 U.S. deaths -- more than 16 percent of all deaths and the No. 2 killer. That compares with 435,000 for tobacco, or 18 percent, as the top underlying killer.

wow. And this study is 6 years old. Wonder where we stand now. Who will protect all these fat people from themselves? Sign you up right?

source: http://www.thedoctorslounge.net/medlounge/articles/obesity_death/

[SPKrazy]

69. Hey, Fat Doesn't Infringe Upon YOUR Health

If I'm fat it doesn't affect your health, but if you SMOKE it affects mine!

[0007]

75. Excellent fucking point -

[snooper2]

68. well.....

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[SPKrazy]

70. How Cute

You can use the smilies lookup table!

Isn't your mama proud

[win_in_06]

66. Do you advocate a ban on tobacco? Do you benefit from sin tax?

[SPKrazy]

72. I don't advocate a ban on tobacco

That was the OP

I do think banning smoking in public places is a good thing to do.

I think if people want to kill themselves with tobacco, that's their business.

But don't kill me along with you please.

And do I benefit from a sin tax?

I don't know? I probably do. You probably do too.

But that really isn't my issue.

Smoking in restaurants and public places is.

It makes my head hurt, it gives me a sinus headache that bothers me for a day or two. It makes my clothes and hair stink.

And more importantly it causes me to breathe in more carcinogens than I would breathe in without the smoke.

[napi21]

45. NOPE! You're wrong! I just don't eat out anymore!

I'm a damn good cook, and I link cooking. I find no enjoyment in going out to a restaurant anymore, and having to pay way too much for good food and then pay more for a tip to be served!

Knock yourself out spending your money on something you won't have tomorrow! I'll stay home, enjoy a better meal, for less $$, and still have my smoke when I wish!!!!!

[SPKrazy]

50. Smoke Away

It's your life

Just keep your smoke to yourself

I'll enjoy my meal out!

[SoCalDem]

53. May I suggest?

[SPKrazy]

54. Is That You Standing By That Hot Dog Stand?

Or what?

[SoCalDem]

55. No, but she'll probably cook you up a mean hot dog

and she's saved you a chair :)

[SPKrazy]

58. No Thanks

I try to stay away from ground up things that I can't pronounce, and I'd just as soon not let that lady fix me anything either.

[Gregorian]

7. By that standard, so should cars be banned.

After all, the volume of cigarette smoke is dwarfed by that of exhaust. Not to mention the harmful effects.

Sorry, modern society is not governed by logic.

[murray hill farm]

12. I agree with you completely!

and i am a smoker! And it would not be the same as Prohibition of alcohol..If one wanted to smoke bad enough to grow their own..that should be their right..but people wouldn't do it..and if they did, it would be for occasional use..not a pack or two packs a day of manufactured cigarettes filled with every imaginable additive to keep the user hooked. I agree wholeheartedly..manufactured cigarettes and the ease by which they can be purchased is the killer...and while we are at it..it should be without question, legal to grow marijuana by individuals for personal use..not for sale..but for personal use..same with tobacco for cigarettes.

[Lorien]

14. There are many toxic pollutants that are still legal; paint thinner,

motor oil, batteries (when disposed of). etc. Cigarettes, like DDT, have caused a staggering number of health concerns. We all have friends and/ or family members who have died from smoking related illnesses. I'm all for allowing people to smoke themselves to death since they all know the risks now (that's their choice),I only have a problem with it when non-smokers who don't want to take the risk of dying from a smoking related illness are repeatedly exposed to it (the children of smokers, for example). I seriously doubt that tobacco will ever be outlawed; it's far too profitable.

[Inland]

65. And not just profitable for cigarette companies.

Countries like China and France, and to a lesser extant the US, tax cigarettes like crazy because they can. China and France have competing government interests in health and revenue.

[oregonindy]

15. just let me sue smokers for assault and I'll be happy

[High Plains]

18. Go ahead, give it your best shot.

[GrumpyGreg]

16. Yes,they should be banned if the smoke is a pollutant.

[High Plains]

19. You'll have to pry my cigarettes from my dead, cold fingers

Uh, no, wait a minute...

When smoking is outlawed, only outlaws will have smokes?



edited: for grammar

[oregonindy]

21. LOL.... I like it...but I think you'll meet more people like myself

who have when confronted with cigarette smoking in a non smoking area asked the offender to put it out and do not take no for an answer.

I've gotten a number of cancer spreaders 86'd and twice got myself kicked out along with them when I took their cancer sticks out of their mouths and ground them out in front of them after they told me to buzz off.

[High Plains]

23. I hope you keep your medical insurance up to date

and not because of second-hand smoke. You keep grabbing cigarettes out of peoples' mouths and one them is going to lay you out on the ground one of these days.

If people are smoking in non-smoking zones, I advise you to notify the appropriate authorities, not engage in vigilante actions.

[oregonindy]

24. that I am prepared for

the situation goes

1. they strike me...no problem I can take a punch better than the average person. best scenerio because then the cops get called and they go away in handcuffs for assault and I call my shark on my cell phone and press charges


2. they strike me and proceed to escalate the situation...no problem my background allows me the ability to more than handle the situation. not the best scenerio because the cops will come and i'll be arrested and the ambulance takes away the assaulter. I still call my shark and press charges

3. they do nothing and assassinate me on the way back to my car. Not much I can do about that other than be vigilant.


Most people are cowards and blowhards and when in the wrong and presented with an intelligent, articulate, obviously in your face large male they huff and puff but ultimately back down.

[High Plains]

25. Okay, have fun.

[converted_democrat]

28. You might want to rethink that plan..

In order to get a cig out of someones mouth you would have to put a few fingers together to pluck the cig out.. That action in itself would clearly represent a threat to said person and would much resemble the same action of a punch.. There would be no way to be able to tell the difference in a way that would satisfy the court..(You say you're a big guy, so your hand coming at someones face for any reason would pretty much represent a threat.) At that point if someone hit you, it would be really hard to prove it wasn't in self defense.. And that's if they just hit you.. In Florida, if someone feels truly threatened they can just flat shoot you.. Just sayin' that is about the dumbest "plan" I've ever heard of..

(I know a lady that pulled a pair of sunglasses off of a guys head, and they got her with assault.. They settled on lesser charges, but she's still on probation as I type this.)

[William769]

22. My sentiments exactly.

[0007]

76. Whew, that sounds like.........like being silly!

[catmother]

27. i would be quite happy if they did. it makes me sick to even

pass by people who are smoking outside.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Your woy or the highway, eh?

[catmother]

33. smokers' rights end where my nose begins. but it you want to

smoke in your own house or in bars or wherever it's allowed -- do it.

[iconoclastNYC]

31. I don't think laws stop bad behavior

It just makes bad behavior more expsensive to society.

What we're doing now is working: Advert banned, High taxation, public smoking bans, education, and public funds for smoking cessation programs. Smoking rates are way down. In a couple more generations smoking should be quite rare.

[oreocat]

32. I'll stop smoking when

you quit drinking.

[iconoclastNYC]

36. False analogy.

Drinking in moderation can be beneficial to your health. The same cannot be said for smoking. Anyway don't be so defensive. We all know that smoking is an addiction.

[politicat]

37. According to CA, there are a lot of things that are toxic that are still

for sale. Toulene, ether, MTBE, benzene, mineral spirits.... Look at pretty much any chemical from a hardware store.

There are legitimate uses for all of the above, and since tobacco can be used religiously (though it is not in generally used so), leaving it on the market but putting enough warning labels on it to scare off illiterate blind people on Neptune (not that I have anything against illiterate or blind people or Neptunians... *grin* ) is enough for me.

[KoKo]

40. Good Point, So Cal!...I wish I was was enough to answer this one...figure

that the RW'ingers on this will "co-opt IT" before we Dems get there on this? :shrug:

[Booster]

42. Being the hypocrits that Americans are (all of us), smoking will

never, ever be made illegal. If we made it illegal we couldn't ship the little coffin nails to other countries, where the real money in tobacco is made. It's another smokescreen(pardon the pun), like making abortions illegal - never gonna happen. Along the same lines, we are never going to find a cure for cancer either - if you pay somebody to look for a cure, they will never find it; put a billion dollars in a fund, and the first person to find a cure gets the money - a cure would be found on Monday of next week.

[WillyT]

47. Oh Yeah... That'll Work...

Marijuana, Cocaine, Crack, Meth, Gasoline, Asbestos, Coal, Political Nonsense...

:shrug:

[SOS]

49. Ban cigarettes?

People who live near the Canadian or Mexican border could get rich quick!

Here's a more realistic idea for anti-smoking people: Check your 401ks, pension funds, retirement funds and mutual funds. Tell your financial advisor to immediately sell all the tobacco stocks in your portfolio. Their stock price would plummet, crippling them where it hurts.

But since Altria (Phillip Morris) is up 57% since 2002, this idea hasn't exactly taken off.

[devilgrrl]

57. Yes. And Yes.

:smoke:

[MadisonProgressive]

60. Couldn't we strike a deal so we could legally smoke pot?

[mcscajun]

74. That's the one down side of anti-smoking laws...

...we no longer have tobacco smokers in public places "giving cover" for our lighting up.

:(

What Were We Thinking?!?!?!

Not really serious, but still... :smoke:

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hippo_Tron]

73. Illegal wars are also a toxic pollutant

Can we ban them too?