A question for the teachers on the board.

[reprobate]

One of my granddaughters is in the sixth grade and I was amazed to hear from her that she had no idea what the civil war was all about. Nor the Bill of Rights!

I'm one of the fogies on the board, tho I prefer the title "Sexy Senior Citizen". I have watched Americans become dumber and dumber about their nation and it's history and government. I believe its been going on for the last forty years at least.

And I believe it's intentional. What got me thinking about that is the fact that the polls are claiming to show that people are divided on Mad George's ignoring the constitution on the spying on Americans scandal. Even the fact that most don't see it as a scandal goes to my point.

For years i've believed that we were kept dumb so that the workers could not have the intellectual organization to change things, capitals control on the labor movement. Now, as a conspiracy theorist, I have come to think that it goes far beyond that.

I now begin to think that it has been all along a conspiracy to take over our government by a fascist group within it, starting with Prescott Bush, thru bringing all the postwar nazi war criminals here under "Operation Paperclip", to the neocon, neoliberal elements in our current regime.

And let's be honest. It's much easier to take over a government of which it's citizens have no idea as to it's foundations.

So here's my question to the teachers: Do I expect too much from a sixth grader to have at least some background in America as to it's government and history? Or am I right in thinking that the No Child Left Behind fiasco is a cover to spend most time preparing the children for reading and math and leave no time for education in American History and American Government, creating a plyable and uninformed citizenry.

But remember, I'm a "conspiracy theorist". I think. If it's really a conspiracy, am I really a "conspiracy theorist"?

[daleanime]

1. Your a "conspiracy theorist".

I hope. But that is the most important thing any one can do to improve our future. We need to improve our children's education and our education.

[phylny]

2. I can only speak of schools in Indiana, Illinois, Virginia, & New York,

where I've either taught or had children go through the school system.

Not only did all of our children learn about the civil war, repeatedly throughout their elementary, middle, and high school curriculums, but often had research projects and reading intended to complement their curriculum. So far, two of my three children have taken Advanced Placement (AP) U.S. History in high school.

In what state does your granddaughter go to school?

[reprobate]

6. Florida. I guess that says it all, huh?

[liberalitch]

10. I teach AP and average US in Va.....

I teach about the civil war and the bill of rights extensively...... BUT I will say that many of my kids come to me thinking that slavery continued until MLK came along.

They think Dr. King freed the slaves not the radical republican congress with the passage of the 13th amend. (god it's weird to say the GOP ever was anything but foul)

[lukasahero]

3. I'm not a teacher but if I remember correctly,

I didn't start studying US history until 7th grade... (Started Geography then too.)

[goclark]

4. No Child Left Behind is a fiasco

designed to bring votes for the Republicans.

It gives no real money to schools, less time on learning, more time teaching to the tests.

The History that is taught is prepared in books that have a Traditional history, not a liberal , PC, history.

Basically, the White Man is still all powerful.

The Civil Rights Movement is to be of slight interest on King's birthday week.

Puts more money into the Charter School Design because it makes parents afraid of the "poor education" in the public schools.

Charter schools are run by BushPals and Faith Based Churches in large part. They get the bucks.


The Children Left Behind are minority and poor.

This teacher's point of view only :)

[liberalitch]

11. My colleagues and I call NCLB.....

"let every child kiss my behind" LCKB

[Amaryllis]

13. REferred to by teachers I know as no child gets ahead or every child left

behind. But they do learn about the Civil War in OR.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. And I would agree

so that would make TWO teachers with that point of view. :hi:

[fooj]

5. Your granddaughter should have some knowledge of the Bill of Rights by now

The main thrust is in Jr. High School. (US History, Govt., etc.)

Peace.

[teach1st]

7. I'm a Florida 5th grade teacher...

Most of the teachers I know don't teach it. My fifth graders come into a new school year with little history knowledge apart from what they're taught during Black History Month. I go to great lengths to cover United States history in full, but I know why most teachers don't get around to it - it isn't covered on the FCAT, our high stakes, NCLB state test.

Most parents appreciate that I teach history. My math and reading scores are above or comparable to comprable schools because I teach math and reading with social studies.

Anecdotally, after studying the Revolutionary War period and the stuggle our nation's founders endured, the great majority of my students have reservations about the administration's "eavesdropping."

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Don't you have a Social Studies curriculum?

There is no way any classroom teacher in my district could get away with not teaching anything in our curriculum. Lesson plans are monitored to be sure every objective from our curriculum is taught. Teachers are also required to post objectives on the board as they teach them.

I teach special ed in an elementary school and the principal and classroom teachers are very concerned about which parts of our mandated curriculum the students on my caseload miss when they spend time in my resource room.

Our curriculum introduces civics in 4th grade and US History in 5th grade.

[izzybeans]

8. Unfortunately elementary schools do better than high schools in my state

in teaching history. Kids memories last barely beyond the following week. When they get to highschool they coast through American History and don't have to take another history course unless chosen as an elective.

My wife's third graders do wonderful stuff with American History. The kids get excited about it, and then forget it when the lesson is over.

you can look up the curriculum on your state's department of education website to see what the minimal standards are. The way the political environment is these days teachers are having to more and more prove they are following them so you can bet they are mirror the minimal knowledge taught in the schools. If you look them up you can judge for yourself as to the accuracy of the history in the lessons they are learning.

All history classes outside of secondary ed. typically are histories of elites (in my state), so they are largely a history of white men heros, with the occasional George Washington Carver and Temperance Movement sprinkled in. Not alot about slave rebellions, labor movements, etc. Good teachers introduce "alternative" histories through storybooks written by nonelite authors. This is not unique to primary education, professional historians (in some quarters) sometimes slip into hero worship as well.

[Strong Atheist]

9. We are teaching the Civil War at the end of the

year here in 6th grade social studies in Virginia.

[Peace Patriot]

12. Foster love of reading and love of learning, and you can't go wrong!

Everybody has 'holes" in their education, as they go through school. The Bill of Rights is a rather big one, but still. I went to Catholic schools and didn't learn about it until my junior year in high school. My grade schools nuns were right off the boat from Poland! They didn't know anything about USA or state history. We spent hours on prayer, rituals, the Baltimore Catechism and CHURCH history. But that didn't stop me from taking Constitutional law in college, and minoring in poli sci--and developing a lifetime devotion to the Bill of Rights.

If you read books and enjoy them, and you give books as gifts, and foster literacy and the passion to learn in other ways, your grandchildren will be fine. And if there's something they don't know, TELL them--in a way that piques their curiosity. Have faith in the human born hunger to KNOW. And never give up on ANY kids in this respect. They may well come back to the subject later (as I did with a number of subjects that were ignored or poorly taught in the schools I went to). Written expression is also important. Ask them to write letters to you, or emails. (That's one thing the nuns did right--we wrote and wrote and wrote, even if it was BS on church history. It exercised the creative skill!)

I would ask their parents to ask about the teaching of American history and principles. Sixth grade is not all that far along. Their schools may have it planned for later in their curriculum. And try the book stores for a "Howard Zinn for kids." (I honestly don't know if there is one--but some sort of good reading on the subject.)

You know, it's interesting about 'holes' in one's education. The human mind is very wily, and very adaptable, and insatiably curious (if it doesn't get stunted--and that takes a mightily determined effort). I found all those "white men still rule" heroic tales of the American revolution and WW II very inspiring and exciting, and even enjoyed the bald-faced lies in the church history I was reading. I had little idea of what the real story was. I was just stirred. They were well-written. My imagination and reasoning abilities were awakened. And it didn't take me that long to start filling in the blanks, and reading alternative narratives. I had the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception down--but no idea of the struggle for separation of church and state. And when I found out about the latter, I was all for that.

I do worry about kids getting overly tested. God, I hated standardized tests! (--my mind always wandered around, creating a hundred different alternative answers that weren't on the test). (I did very poorly on them.) It's much more important that your grandkids don't get bored, and stifled, filling in stupid little boxes, than that they don't get taught some particular subject. Your goal should be the keep their spark alive--their curiosity--and help them discover for themselves what they don't know and what they want to know.

[Peace Patriot]

15. And just remember that the leftist radicals of the 1960s were created in

the truly stifling schools and social environment of the 1950s. --and that Thomas Jefferson never forgot the seering lessons he learned in oppression of the human mind by his early exposure to a bad, stifling, oppressive, nutcase of a religious grade school teacher.

You soon discover what they are leaving OUT of your education--and then you never forgot it.

[reprobate]

16. Peace Patriot, thank you for the well thought out responce.

You've inspired me to start them on a learning program of my own. Heavy on the history, for with a good grounding in history they'll find it far easier to pick out the political lies from the political truth.

[moc]

14. My 4th grader got a 100 on her social studies project regarding

the branches of government despite the fact that she had put "congressmen" in the executive and "lieutenant" in the legislative. (We live in TX and that refers to the lt gov). She got all pissy because I told her I wanted her to verify the information in her textbook or I was going to contact her teacher. I was appalled that the teacher misgraded the paper. Apparently, another parent contacted the teacher, because my daughter told me the teacher corrected the mistake the next day in class. I tried to explain to my daughter why this was soooo important because of what is going on right now re: snoopgate, etc, but she just rolled her eyes at me.

I fear for our republic. I don't think many adults understand the importance of the balance of power.

[MichiganVote]

17. In Michigan the Social Studies portion of the state MEAP test

covers all of these things from 5th grade on. Its a hard test, however, and not that many kids test proficient. Teachers have a devil of a time teaching information to kids nowadays that doesn't involve bling. Social Studies used to be supported in schools with things like SS bee's, plays, recitation contests and the like. Around Martin Luther King day there are usually school wide activities that speak to the SS issues but there's no mistaking that we are lapsing in this area of education.

[jazzjunkysue]

18. Very simple: If there's no required civil war test, they don't know it.

Everything now is about the tests, which are in math and english. There are 5th and 8th grade social studies tests. I'm not sure of the content, here in NY, but, I can certainly believe that it's not covered.

Also, remember that when quizzed, lots of kids may seem not to remember what they've learned, or it may have been forgotten.

I think the Civil war was a larger issue in the early part of the century. It's not such a big event anymore. There's just so much material to cover, and kids don't get more years to learn it all. So, teachers have to choose what to cover, and everything gets less time. The world is very large and confusing. We teach how to access knowledge now, and past generations pretty much memorized the material.

Even the topic of Russia baffles kids, because adults remember the red menace. Kids today don't understand.

[Lars39]

19. If it's not being taught, you might have to step in and fill the void.

Here's a site that has affordable text books, with teacher texts.
Also just reading books from the library will help her a lot.

www.thebackpack.com

Also www.jackdaws.com is a wonderful source of material.

[LWolf]

20. It's really about state curriculum

frameworks, benchmarks, and/or standards, whatever your state happens to call them. Those are what determine what is taught at each grade level.

Social studies is usually taught developmentally, starting with what kids are ready to understand. "Me," then "My family," then "My neighborhood," "My community," "My state," "My country," etc., starting with the small and moving outward. I've taught in 2 states, and the way topics are organized differ between them. In my previous state, US history is taught in 5th grade, and then again in 8th. In my current state, US history is not taught until 8th grade. That was an eye-opener in class discussions with my 6th graders this year; having taught K - 8th, I knew what they should be familiar with by 6th grade...in my old state. My current 6th grade is about the same as my previous state: Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, and Rome. They just don't get US history until later. I don't know why. :shrug:

You should be able to download and read, or print, a copy of your state's history/ss curriculum from your state dept. of ed to see where US history fits.

NCLB? I'm right with you. It's true that the pressure to get the math and reading scores have decimated instructional time for other disciplines. I believe that the high-stakes testing portion of NCLB is perfectly designed to produce a generation of kids who know and think less than their predecessors. As for your granddaughter, check that state dept. of ed website to see when the state teaches US history!

[reprobate]

24. Thanks, LWolf. It should also be noted who has profitted so much....

...from the NCLB, or more specifically from supplying Florida with the preparation materials for the FCAT that each student must face. I refer of course to Niel Bush, brother of Jeb and George W., who has profitted to the tune of four BILLION dollars!

I believe that's the same Neil Bush who cost the taaxpayers all that money on the Silverado S&L scandal. You have to hand it to this faamily. They DO know how to play the taxpayers.

[LWolf]

25. You bring up that darned iceberg

underneath the floating "tip" of accountability.

There are many "education" corporations making big bucks under NCLB, while the WH grandly tells us they've "funded" the mandates. :eyes:

Test publishers, text book publishers, consultants, professional "data crunchers," trainers, publishers of "one-size-fits-all" programs guaranteed to bring those scores up, private tutoring firms, and even private corporations ready to take over whole districts when they "fail." Some of them have well-established ties to right-wing think tanks and pacs. Some have multi-generational relationships with the BFEE. Where is all the money going? To private industry determined to shove their products down our collective throats.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. In my district, US History is introduced in 5th grade

and govt in 4th grade. So every 6th grader in our district should be be somewhat familiar with the Bill of Rights. I can understand not knowing much about the Civil War but not the Bill of Rights.

Your granddaughter's school district very likely has their curriculum posted online. Look it up. If this has been taught to her, then your beef would be with your granddaughter and not the school district. If the school district does not have their curriculum online, then I am almost positive there will be state curriculum standards posted on the state dept of education website. The school district's curriculum would be based on those state standards.

Do some research before you develop a conspiracy theory. :tinfoilhat: